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  1. #1
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    99% Percent protest Wall Street, Corporations, and Big Banks

    Well, I'll just have to take Richard's advice and talk about something other than religion.

    I liked the video you showed on the biblewheel talking about corruption with our government and how Politicians are being bought out by big corporations.

    For 30 years, big banks have had their way, and now the U.S. economy is tanking because of their greed. The top 400 richest American's are sitting on roughly 60% percent of America's capital, leaving the rest of America to fight over the remaining 40% percent. Needless to say, this does very little for wages, government programs, or even small businesses. So what can we do? Well, there's only one agency with enough legal muscle to move some of that wealth back into the pockets of those who actually keep the economy moving; taxing them is the only way. If they are not going to invest money back into the economy by hiring more people, and paying higher wages, then taxing them is the only way.

    Now to make matters even worse, we've got big businesses moving overseas in search of cheap labor. This smells like Greed...Greed....Greed! What ever happened to working for a living? Now it seems like these big corporations only care about stock prices for the shareholders. Why would I care about someone else's share if I'm not the one benefiting from it? What does a big bank like Bank of America have to resort to charging its customers a $5.00 dollar fee simply to ensure their shareholders make more money? Since when is it the responsibility of the consumer to pay dividends or profits for the shareholders? I mean, aren't they already making enough money from mortgage loans? 6% percent on a 30 year mortgage, equating to three times the value of the house, and they're broke???? Give me a freaking break!

    And what about the speaker of the house? Doesn't he realize just how many people dislike him right now? I mean, we're not talking 50/50 or 30/70! We're talking about more than 90% percent of the population really dislikes (rather, hates) this guys, and his little side kick! Just who in the hell do these guys think they are?

    I'll tell you what boys and girls. The only way the Republicans well get re-elected in office is if they steal the next election. This means making it harder for the poor and middle class to vote. We see them doing that already with some states resorting to a $20.00 dollar fee just to get a government photo-ID so they can register to vote. What's next? Removing our right to free speech so they can stop hearing us bitch all the time?

    America! It's time to stand up against these guys. Merely protesting them is not enough. It's time to take serious action. WE'VE GOT TO GET THE WORD OUT TO VOTE AGAINST REPUBLICANS.

    Now, some of you rich boys (if there are any on here) may think it's unfair. But guess what. You don't know what fair is until you've had to work 70+ hours a week with little to show for it! I'm sick and tired of playing according to corporate rules. They purposely pay low wages to force the middle and lower class into relying on credit. So not only do they profit when you buy their products. They profit when you have to borrow money to buy their products; that's like getting paid twice! And it's very damaging to the American economy. Want an example?

    Most businesses now days require a college degree before being hired. Huh oh! That means you have to apply for a student loan. Now guess who's forking up the money for you to attend college? The same knuckle headed groups who are "intending" to hire you. Then you get stiffed with a $50,000 thousand dollar student loan, only to be hired by a company that pays you just enough to keep your head above water. So they make money by working you to death, AND they make money by the interest you're paying from their invested money for your student loan.

    I've finally learned that this is the number one reason why corporations don't like paying higher wages. They can earn money twice from a single transaction; keeping you down so you have to rely on credit, and by working you butt off (doing more with less) so that THEY don't have to work!

    And we're supposed to be proud of Capitalism?? Why? What's so good about a system of economics if only a small handful benefit from it? Take a look at this pay scale, and ANYONE, please tell me why or how capitalism is supposed to be so damn good!



    Corporate CEO's have seen a huge increase in their pay, while the middle class has gone nearly nowhere since the late 1970's! And everyone is wondering why middle class America is pissed off! All the money keeps flowing up to the top. And yet they say, "stop being lazy and go get a job!" What a bunch of non-sense! How can 150,000 million American's find a job if there are less jobs available for everyone, especially if they are all going overseas?

    If you haven't heard, Whirlpool is laying off 1,700 employees this month. Guess where they're going? Either to Mexico or to China! And this is the company that took millions in dollars of bail-out money from the tax-payers!

    Folks! I'm serious when I say this! It's time to fight back! Because now even the military is getting hit hard by this. The Corporate mentality has worked its way into the military, and now they're playing the same lay-off games as we see happening to teachers, firemen, policemen, etc. Military members are being administratively kicked out after serving just short of 20 years of service. They've increased the physical fitness standards to the point that thousands are suffering serious career ending injuries. And when you get injured, and are unable to meet standards, your career is over. No severance pay; not thank you for your service; Just GET THE "F" out!

    It's going to get much worse before it gets better. CAST THE VOTE folks! VOTE DEMOCRATIC! IF you vote Republican, then you are leaving the poor and the middle class to their poverty, or even death!

    Joe
    Last edited by TheForgiven; 10-29-2011 at 07:23 PM.
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  2. #2
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    Deleted, except this because this is largely a waste of time if you are not going to blame both sides of the aisle.

    This says it all and it doesn't matter who is in the White House.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0

    How the Fed Engineered the Great Depression.

    http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/2271
    Last edited by heb13-13; 10-30-2011 at 06:57 AM.

    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

    Answering the Skeptics Bible

  3. #3
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    I agree with Heb 13-13, this is not a problem of political parties, it is a problem with human nature. I saw a cartoon in a magazine one time that does a good job of explaining why billions of dollars is not enough for some people, (or groups of people). I think it was in an outdoor magazine but it makes a good analogy.

    Two men are running away from a raging grizzly bear, and one of them turns to the other and asks "Can a man out-run a grizzly?" . To which his counterpart says "Heck, I ain't worried about that! All I gotta do is out-run you!" .

    When people get rich they get scared of being without, and they also identify with their money, so losing that is the same as losing themselves. If they have competition (who doesn't in capitalism?) then, when their competitor makes 10 billion in a certain length of time, they had better make at least that much or more, or their competitor will "out run them" and they will be "eaten up". It's not enough that they have millions or more socked away in personal accounts. They need to hold on to what they have. The book of Habakkuk calls it "building your nest on high, that you made be delivered from the hand of evil". It's always been a problem. The 49 year Jubilee period in the bible was one way of trying to equalize things and stop this from happening, but even then there was a warning not to get stingy just because the Jubilee was coming up.

  4. #4
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    I know that both sides (Democratic and Republican) are at fault here. But we need jobs right now; we can't wait 13 more months. And even if the Republican's regain the House and the Senate, that by no means is a great hope for the middle class or poor to get jobs; GOOD PAYING jobs! Republican's (and many Democrats) are too greedy.

    What the 99% percent, in a nut shell, are fighting for is a level playing field. Without that, it's impossible for the majority of American's who simply want to work for a living without getting rich, to hav a fair shot at life. We're not talking about wealth here; we're talking about life.

    Greed causes interest rates to sky rocket. Greed causes businesses to overprice their stocks, or their products. Greed buys corruptions in the House and Senate. And out of all this, who is the ones always hurt by greed? The middle class and the poor.

    Middle class workers and the poor are not asking to get rich. They are not asking to get paid hundreds of dollars an hour. They simply want to live a simple life, earning a fair paycheck, working 40 hours a week, and spending time with their families. But Capitalism has made this nearly impossible. Businesses want the working class to work holidays, weekends, and long hours throughout the day. Sure the long hours pay overtime, but lately even that's worthless. All they did was adjust the wages to accomodate the overtime pay in the net worth of working 40 hours a week; they reduced (or rather refused to increase wages) the pay scale, and fired a lot of full-time slots, relying on part-timers, to save money on labor.

    My problem is this. If someone feels that have to have millions upon millions, while their employees, be it here or abroad, have to live paycheck to paycheck, while also relying on home loans to purchase simple products, then that business is corrupted.

    I'm all about the business executive making a very good living, but NEVER at the cost of their employees. And let's be honest here. The economy is not based on how much money the top 1% percent have. The economy is based on how much the middle class and the poor spend. Their spending comes from disposable income (what's left after the bills are paid). But the cost of living keeps going up, gas keeps going up (another example of greed), food keeps going up, Corporate earnings keep going up, but everything and everybody else either stay the same, decline, or lose their jobs all together.

    What's causing this? The top 1% percent are sitting on 5 to 7 trillion dollars in wealth. Only about 40% percent of their wealth circles the economy. So the top 1% percent have the middle class and the poor fighting over 40% percent of the entire nations wealth. That's not enough to sustain an economy.

    So unless corporations increase wages and higer more people so that we can spend the economy back to good health, then taxing them is the only way. That way the government can create publics sector jobs, which in turn dramatically improves the economy. Rich idiots stocking up on wealth destroys the economy, and gives them too much power. The purpose of government is to keep businesses from controlling the people, which is what we've seen happening for the past 30 years.

    POWER TO THE PEOPLE has gone to POWER TO THE CEO'S AND EXEC's. It's time to take back America and regain our freedom from greed and corruption. But if you vote Republican, then all hope is lost. Democrats aren't perfect, but at least they are the only ones batting for us. The GOP? They are all for themselves, and their payers (CEO'S). And since when should the 1% percent have more say-so than the 99% percent? NEVER!

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    I know that both sides (Democratic and Republican) are at fault here. But we need jobs right now; we can't wait 13 more months. And even if the Republican's regain the House and the Senate, that by no means is a great hope for the middle class or poor to get jobs; GOOD PAYING jobs! Republican's (and many Democrats) are too greedy.
    Hi Joe,

    I really don't get involved in these types of discussions because they usually end up in a blame game, party spirit and class warfare among other things. And my God is not behind any of that despite what the religionists say.

    I just don't want to play the "puppet masters" games.

    Joe, do you remember Nebuchadnezzar's music in the book of Daniel?

    "Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages, That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up: And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace" (Dan 3:4-6).

    Everyone has their music, Joe. And it comes in many forms. The religious world has their music (catch phrases) such as "God is great" or "Praise the Lord" and each time they are repeated, they watch you to see if you will "fall down and worship". The Catholic Church has their music (Hail Mary), and on and on it goes. Every religion has their instruments, tunes and music.

    Politicians have their music, too. Remember, "Hail Caesar" or "Heil Hitler"? Many people who thought they would never say that, did.

    And the Democrats know just the right "tune" to play to arouse your emotions. The Republicans do the same thing. With one side it is "You are going to lose your pensions, your jobs, your benefits, etc, etc", with the other side it is "The Constitution is being ignored, we are turning into a dictatorship, we are losing our rights, judges are overturning what the majority just voted on, etc, etc).

    Each side knows equally how to play the "tune" that mobilizes their millions. And the puppet masters keep the masses busy dancing to their music and fighting the "other side".

    Jesus said, "Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like? They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept" (Luke 7:31-32).

    Don't you think the Pharisees were quite insulted by Jesus when He said, "Ye are of your father, the Devil (John 8:44)? Their fathers were prophets and they claimed to worship the God of the Bible and no doubt their music (catch phrases) came right out of the Old Testament. And they claimed that they worshipped the one true God.


    They were greatly offended by Jesus. "Then took they up stones to cast at him..." (John 8:59).

    Jesus wouldn't dance, Joe and neither will I. They can all play their music and pipe their flutes, but I'm not dancing.


    I want to know what I'm dancing to before I dance and I first want to know who the God behind the dance is.

    "Bow or Burn" is the choice, Joe. I won't bow...

    Think about who you are dancing to...

    Rick





    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

    Answering the Skeptics Bible

  6. #6
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    Interesting metaphor you're using, and I certainly respect your decision not to "bow". But I'm not bowing to the Democrats because they are playing the sound I like to hear. I'm bowing to them because they are our only voice right now. The Republicans gave rich corporations 8 years of welfare, while the middle class and poor got nearly nothing but higher gas prices, low wages, and in the last 2 years, teachers, firemen, military, and other Public Sector employees were let go; they were fired. Thousands have lost their life-time pensions because of Wall street. Thousands have lost their homes, their mortgages, and even more, their very lives. But there's only one side to blame for this, and that's the GOP who have let corporations get away with murder. It was the GOP who allowed, during the Bush administration, to stiff the economy with excessively high gas prices. They used every single middle eastern conflict as an excuse to raise prices. They used China as an excuse to raise gas prices because they would have us believe that all of a sudden, they were using more gas than before. Yet in the end, it was all BS! It was all about hedge funds and speculations that allowed the Big Oil companies, and the rich corporations throwing money in shares for Big Oil so they could all capitalize on the hedge funds they created around oil. THAT is the secret they didn't want the 99% percent to know. And it wasn't just oil they did this to; home mortgages were suffering the same problem, although that was not with the GOP, but the Democrats who were at fault there. The Democrats were simply trying to make it easier for everyone to own a home. What they didn't expect was for Wall street and Big Banks to resort to loan scams imposed on those (the middle class and poor) who wanted to buy a home. I'm one of those idiots who got sucked into their scam. My house was sold at 6% percent because that was the going rate. I didn't have enough money to put down (usually 20%). So what did they do? They over-appraised the value of the house at $148,000 dollars, with a sell price of $135,000. This made it seem like that I had equity built from the get-go. One year later, and BAM!!!! The bubble busted (so they say), and all of a sudden, my house isn't work JACK! Now it's only worth $128,000 dollars, which just happens to be EXACTLY what I owe. Meanwhile, Bank of America has collected more than $48,000 thousand dollars in interest payments, which means if I refinanced my home at the current payoff value, I just lost $48,000 dollars. THAT is the kind of scam that I'm ticked off with big banks, big oil, and Wall street. So I've decided not to refinance because if I lose my job, then I want Bank of America to be stuck with a home they cannot sell. Why would I want to cause problems for an honest bank (if there is such a thing)?

    Bank of America screwed me, and I'm not pleased about it at all. If they were honest enough, they would refinance my house under a new contract, and apply some of the Interest they've earned over the past 5 years. THEN I would consider them an honest bank. But unfortunately, that isn't going to happen. I know they want me to refinance under a new loan with another financial institution, but I'm not budging. I want them to lose when I go under. IF THAT HAPPENS.

    So it's not that any particular side is playing the music I want to hear. I'm siding with the only side that is doing anything about my hardship. Because the GOP, such as Mit Romney, has no solution to my problem. You know what his music says? He says that those suffering from foreclosure need to hurry up and get out, so that investors can swipe my house really cheap, and then turn around and either rent it or sell it for THEIR profit. THAT'S HIS ANSWER???? And you want me to listen to that tune? Why would I vote for a side that has no contributions to the middle class?

    Not to be rude with you my friend, but you are merely playing the pacifist in this. And we need voices who are going to listen, and not pass over everything as if they weren't affected; unless of course you're one of those greedy folk who extort money for a living. Are you?

    Joe
    Last edited by TheForgiven; 10-31-2011 at 08:40 AM.
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Interesting metaphor you're using, and I certainly respect your decision not to "bow". But I'm not bowing to the Democrats because they are playing the sound I like to hear. I'm bowing to them because they are our only voice right now.
    Yes, I have heard that before from both sides and at least you admit you ARE bowing.

    The Republicans gave rich corporations 8 years of welfare, while the middle class and poor got nearly nothing but higher gas prices, low wages, and in the last 2 years, teachers, firemen, military, and other Public Sector employees were let go; they were fired. Thousands have lost their life-time pensions because of Wall street. Thousands have lost their homes, their mortgages, and even more, their very lives.
    But there's only one side to blame for this, and that's the GOP
    If you get a chance you should read The Naked Capitalist, The Way the World Really Works, and Tragedy and Hope (by Carroll Quiqley). I think you may find those books very enlightening regarding both Dem and Repubs.

    So it's not that any particular side is playing the music I want to hear.
    Yes, I think I understand what music you like to hear.

    I'm siding with the only side that is doing anything about my hardship. Because the GOP, such as Mit Romney, has no solution to my problem. You know what his music says? He says that those suffering from foreclosure need to hurry up and get out, so that investors can swipe my house really cheap, and then turn around and either rent it or sell it for THEIR profit. THAT'S HIS ANSWER???? And you want me to listen to that tune? Why would I vote for a side that has no contributions to the middle class?
    No Joe, I did not say that you should listen to anyone's "flutes". Did you miss my analogy? They are both playing the same music but different tunes. But most people are "tone deaf" and think their particular side's music is glorious.

    Not to be rude with you my friend, but you are merely playing the pacifist in this. And we need voices who are going to listen, and not pass over everything as if they weren't affected;
    No offense taken, but the scriptures don't teach pacifism. Jesus taught and lived non-resistance, not pacifism. Jesus did not protest, strike or do sit-ins to get His way or mobilize the masses against the God ordained authorities no matter how repugnant they were and He and the Apostles did not teach us to do those things. Did you forget that Israel was occupied by the Romans in Jesus' and the Apostle's time. Where did any of them engage in pacifism?

    unless of course you're one of those greedy folk who extort money for a living. Are you?
    Listening to the world's music causes people to make judgments like this upon others and your post makes all my points very clear.

    Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. (2Ti 2:4-5)

    The dangerous thing about imbibing this world's music and especially the political music is that eventually this "flavor" of "Christian" gets to the point where they think they need to use force to get what they want or keep from losing what they have. They are losing their life(style) so they seek to save their life(style) with the arm of the flesh and they end up losing it anyway, but more importantly they end up losing even more valuable things than a house or car or pension.

    I wish you well, Joe and I probably should stop here.

    Joe[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by heb13-13; 10-31-2011 at 12:00 PM.

    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

    Answering the Skeptics Bible

  8. #8
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    No offense taken, but the scriptures don't teach pacifism. Jesus taught and lived non-resistance, not pacifism. Jesus did not protest, strike or do sit-ins to get His way or mobilize the masses against the God ordained authorities no matter how repugnant they were and He and the Apostles did not teach us to do those things. Did you forget that Israel was occupied by the Romans in Jesus' and the Apostle's time. Where did any of them engage in pacifism?
    Not entirely my friend. Have you forgotten what Jesus said to the Jews when He began lashing at them with a whip? He said, "It is written! My house shall be a house of prayer, but you have turned it into a den of theives". What do you think He meant by that? He wasn't talking about thieves who break in and steal from the temple market. He's talking about business men who used the temple as a market for financial profit, ripping people off. The old woman is one such example of His rebuke. Had Jerusalem shared its wealth like they were commanded to, instead of storing up wealth for their own profit, then their wouldn't be an old woman having less than a penny (penny in American worth).

    You must also remember the Apostle James:

    [B]1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. 4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. 5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.

    Who was James warning here? Was it not the same Jews who Jesus condemned within the temple? James was warning them that their destruction was about to come up them because of the luxary they've enjoyed, while casting away the simple wage-earners as worthless. Notice how he says of the Jews, "Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud (den of thieves), cry out..." That's the same with what's happening to my country; the one I've served for 20 years, and I'm ashamed at how the rich folks continue to oppress the poor, paying them low wages, and ensuring that their lives are caught in a snare of financial burden and hardship. Although James was not talking about us or our country, the principals are the same.

    The rich, who are afraid of being poor, will do all that they can within their power of governmental influence, to pass legislation to ensure their wealth in their constant attempts to oppress the poor. It is they who are the ones who establish a line of choices we make which are no choices at all. For choice is an illusion created by those with power, upon those without power. The poor are always oppressed by the wealthy, who nearly always end up ruining countries because of greed and corruption. The middle class and the poor only have one choice when it comes to oppression, and that's our voices. Yet our voices are not be heared by Wall Street nor the Republican party. The only voice they hear is the sound of their god which is marked, "In God We Trust". It is true that the only god they serve is the god of money and oppression.

    As the scripture says, "Money is the root of all sorts of evil". While it is not the very evil itself, it is the root that causes greedy people to inflict all sorts of hardship and evil.

    unless of course you're one of those greedy folk who extort money for a living. Are you?
    Listening to the world's music causes people to make judgments like this upon others and your post makes all my points very clear.
    I'm not merely taking the medias word for it my friend. I research the facts. Michael Moore, whom I used to dislike, has been found to be about 99% percent accurate. He was right about the war in Iraq; it was all about the oil, and all about Dick Cheney and his little side-kick friend, Rumsfeld, using war for financial gain. Dick Cheney owned a business supplying troops with worthless MRE's (Meals Ready to Eat), and other war-based equipment. Donal Rumself also owned shares in the war-profiteering department.

    Why do we have so many deployed American solderis abroad? Some of it has to do with protecting our national security, specifically the global war on terrorism. But a great deal of it has to do with protecting American investments in countries like Korea, and Saudi Arabia. South Korea is loaded with American corporations over there, such as Michelin, Rebbok, Nike, Levis, etc. North Korea is not as much of a threat to America as it is American Corporations who are afraid of losing their "slave wages". And I've grown quite sick of American corporations exploiting overseas commerce in exchange for cheap labor, which is a huge slap in the face for the American worker.

    Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. (2Ti 2:4-5)
    So are you suggesting that we should ignore our civil rights as a citizen of this country and let the rich dig us deep into proverty? It's not like the 99% percent are advocating war here; they're merely expressing their right to free speech. And being a Christian does not mean be silent. Tame the tongue yes, but taming the tongue does not mean be silent. And I, as an American citizen, have a right as a Christian to voice my displeasure towards our government, just as St. James did to his.


    The dangerous thing about imbibing this world's music and especially the political music is that eventually this "flavor" of "Christian" gets to the point where they think they need to use force to get what they want or keep from losing what they have. They are losing their life(style) so they seek to save their life(style) with the arm of the flesh and they end up losing it anyway, but more importantly they end up losing even more valuable things than a house or car or pension.

    I wish you well, Joe and I probably should stop here.
    Once again, a Christian doesn't entice others to engage in any type of war. Using the power and freedom of our voice is not advocating war. Protesting is also not advocating war. Or have you forgotten the Protestant movement? Was that not about rebellion against the Catholic Church because of greed and oppression? Or should the Christian then have backed down, and continued to be oppressed? No, they protested the corruption of the Church in England and eventually fled to the America's. Unfortunately, not without the rich continuing to influence our society, and even their's during their time. I'm not asking for a perfect country; I'm asking for a fair country, and one that honors the worker as much as the boss.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Not entirely my friend. Have you forgotten what Jesus said to the Jews when He began lashing at them with a whip? He said, "It is written! My house shall be a house of prayer, but you have turned it into a den of theives". What do you think He meant by that? He wasn't talking about thieves who break in and steal from the temple market. He's talking about business men who used the temple as a market for financial profit, ripping people off. The old woman is one such example of His rebuke. Had Jerusalem shared its wealth like they were commanded to, instead of storing up wealth for their own profit, then their wouldn't be an old woman having less than a penny (penny in American worth).

    You must also remember the Apostle James:

    [B]1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. 4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. 5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.

    Who was James warning here? Was it not the same Jews who Jesus condemned within the temple? James was warning them that their destruction was about to come up them because of the luxary they've enjoyed, while casting away the simple wage-earners as worthless. Notice how he says of the Jews, "Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud (den of thieves), cry out..." That's the same with what's happening to my country; the one I've served for 20 years, and I'm ashamed at how the rich folks continue to oppress the poor, paying them low wages, and ensuring that their lives are caught in a snare of financial burden and hardship. Although James was not talking about us or our country, the principals are the same.

    The rich, who are afraid of being poor, will do all that they can within their power of governmental influence, to pass legislation to ensure their wealth in their constant attempts to oppress the poor. It is they who are the ones who establish a line of choices we make which are no choices at all. For choice is an illusion created by those with power, upon those without power. The poor are always oppressed by the wealthy, who nearly always end up ruining countries because of greed and corruption. The middle class and the poor only have one choice when it comes to oppression, and that's our voices. Yet our voices are not be heared by Wall Street nor the Republican party. The only voice they hear is the sound of their god which is marked, "In God We Trust". It is true that the only god they serve is the god of money and oppression.

    As the scripture says, "Money is the root of all sorts of evil". While it is not the very evil itself, it is the root that causes greedy people to inflict all sorts of hardship and evil.



    I'm not merely taking the medias word for it my friend. I research the facts. Michael Moore, whom I used to dislike, has been found to be about 99% percent accurate. He was right about the war in Iraq; it was all about the oil, and all about Dick Cheney and his little side-kick friend, Rumsfeld, using war for financial gain. Dick Cheney owned a business supplying troops with worthless MRE's (Meals Ready to Eat), and other war-based equipment. Donal Rumself also owned shares in the war-profiteering department.

    Why do we have so many deployed American solderis abroad? Some of it has to do with protecting our national security, specifically the global war on terrorism. But a great deal of it has to do with protecting American investments in countries like Korea, and Saudi Arabia. South Korea is loaded with American corporations over there, such as Michelin, Rebbok, Nike, Levis, etc. North Korea is not as much of a threat to America as it is American Corporations who are afraid of losing their "slave wages". And I've grown quite sick of American corporations exploiting overseas commerce in exchange for cheap labor, which is a huge slap in the face for the American worker.



    So are you suggesting that we should ignore our civil rights as a citizen of this country and let the rich dig us deep into proverty? It's not like the 99% percent are advocating war here; they're merely expressing their right to free speech. And being a Christian does not mean be silent. Tame the tongue yes, but taming the tongue does not mean be silent. And I, as an American citizen, have a right as a Christian to voice my displeasure towards our government, just as St. James did to his.




    Once again, a Christian doesn't entice others to engage in any type of war. Using the power and freedom of our voice is not advocating war. Protesting is also not advocating war. Or have you forgotten the Protestant movement? Was that not about rebellion against the Catholic Church because of greed and oppression? Or should the Christian then have backed down, and continued to be oppressed? No, they protested the corruption of the Church in England and eventually fled to the America's. Unfortunately, not without the rich continuing to influence our society, and even their's during their time. I'm not asking for a perfect country; I'm asking for a fair country, and one that honors the worker as much as the boss.

    Joe
    Peace to you Joe, I'm outta this thread. I never argue with Christians that trust in politics. Been there, done that many times but I just don't have the heart for it.


    Rick
    Last edited by heb13-13; 10-31-2011 at 02:42 PM.

    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

    Answering the Skeptics Bible

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    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    Peace to you Joe, I'm outta this thread. I never argue with Christians that trust in politics. Been there, done that many times but I just don't have the heart for it.


    Rick
    Then I bid you farewell my friend. This Thread wasn't a discussion about religion; it was a general discussion about Politics. I don't believe that there's anything wrong with discussing politics. Much of our Constitutional rights comes from Christian virtues. And many within the Republican party claim to be Christian. Take Mike Huckabee who claims to be a Christian. I find it very astonishing that he supports the "you're on your own" mentality. Could you imagine what Jesus thinks about that? If He said to mankind, "you're on your own", how would anyone choose to follow someone who thinks that we are our own keeper?

    As a Christian, we are to look out, not only for our own welfare, but the welfare of our neighbors. And as a citizen of the United States, we bare that same responsibility. Now I'm not talking about loaning money to a drug addict, or someone just looking for whiskey money. But I am talking about someone who maybe chooses to help the drug addict or the alcoholic. Of course, we could always adapt to the Republican philosophy of "you're on your own" or "tie your own shoes" or "if you're sick, and you can't afford it, then you're on your own". Remember what some chanted during the GOP Presidential debate when asked what they would do if a woman, who didn't have health insurance, suffered a near fatal accident? Some without the crowd yelled, "Let them die!" That was the cherry on top of the cake for me.

    The rich want to remain rich, and I'm fine with that. I'm not faulting them for wanting to earn money. What I do fault them with is oppressing their employee's who are trying to do the same thing. A company does not need trillions of dollars, while their employee's remain on food stamps or other government hand outs.

    My philosophy is this. America was founded on the basic principals (among many others) that if you work hard, be it at management or at labor, you are entitled to an invaluable life. The GOP, however, does not adapt to this view. They believe that ONLY, and I stress ONLY, Executives and CEO's are entitled to in invaluable life. With them, it's all about the math; how much money can they earn, NOT just from company products or services, but by interest payments. VERY HIGH interest payments.

    Example: A car salesman wants someone to buy his car. A customer expresses great interest in buying the car, but is short on cash. So the car salesmen offers him a linen of credit. So the customer ends up taking a loan out for the car AND ends up paying interest. So now the salesmen ends up profiting from the loan AND the car. But in this case, the salesman doesn't want to rely on long-term monthly payments to make a profit. So he cons the guys into being enslaved with a long term HIGH INTEREST RATE loan, enabling the loaner the ability to obtain quicker profits. This is what Bank of America did with their home mortgages. Their interest rates were so high, despite even my near-perfect credit, that they ended up amassing almost 60% percent of their loan within 5 years, leaving me with 25 years left on a 30 year mortgage. What does this equate to? Three to four times the value of the house. And this is happening all over our country. And THAT is the reason why the bubble busted, yet the GOP blames it on folks buying what they could no afford. This was a flat out lie by the GOP who failed to acknowledge that it wasn't the customers who failed in their responsibilities; it was the financial institutions who borrowed money from overseas so that they could supply Mortgage loans, resulting in 3% percent of 6% percent to go to them for profit, AND to the foreign financial institution. Now to make matters even worse, Bank of America lied about the value of their homes, so on paper, each home was worth a lot of money. They were advertising home sells at high value, but finances at 12% percent o 18% percent lower than their estimated value. This enabled low-income American's to jump into a home Mortgage with nothing down. But the cost was very high; more than 40% percent of the average wage earners income. And boy Wall Street loved it. They were, figuratively speaking, banking huge $$$ from selling a simple candy bar, worth only .25 cents, for $10 bucks.

    In all honesty, I see no value at all with Wall Street. The wealth of the economy is not based on Wall Street. Wall Street is strictly for investors who allow their money to be used for high interest rate loans. This, of course, yields them higher dividends or capital gains.

    I'm not jealous of the rich. I just wish they would honor their employee's more than what they've been doing. I know the Unions have not made this any easier. But without the Unions, employee's would be forced into enduring long hours, low wages, no health care, and no pensions.

    I'm sorry if this discussion offended you. I've noticed that not too many people on the Wheel are interested in talking about anything accept Prophesy, or Church pet-pee's such as Baptism, once saved always saved, Sabbath days, etc. I've risen above all such pettiness.

    At any rate, God bless you, and have a wonderful day.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

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