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  1. #91
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    Jesus became the end of the Torah because He is the Living Torah.

    Rom 10:4
    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    Jesus then continues, "I came to fulfill the Law" (Matt. 5:17). In other words,
    "I came to fill the Law full; to bring to full fruition all that the Law pointed
    to pictorially and custodially." "I came to fulfill the Law, by being the
    dynamic directive of God, the living Torah, in the lives of His People." To
    "fulfill" means more than just to fulfill the promises and the prophecies
    historically. It carries with it the theological meaning of completing,
    actualizing, consummating the Law by becoming its full intended content.

    The best thing I have ever read on the Law of God!! This will even dispel David Friedman's confusion.

    http://www.christinyou.net/pages/lawgod.html

    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

    Answering the Skeptics Bible

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by drs View Post
    Friendly Greetings,

    Even though David Friedman may not actually teach that Gentiles should obey the Torah the same way that Jews should, it's interesting to note that Ariel Berkowitz writes (in the forward, on page vi) that: "He [Friedman] observes that they provided living and loving examples to follow for all of us who believe in him."

    So, if it's true that Friedman does not believe Gentiles should obey the Torah, then it's strange that Friedman would allow Berkowitz to write that Torah is for ALL believers.

    Or, if Friedman believes that Gentiles and non-Gentiles should BOTH obey the Torah (but in distinct ways), then I wonder what distinctions Friedman has in mind.

    Then again, I'm not sure Berkowitz is clear about whether Gentiles should obey the Torah either. In Berkowitz' book, "Torah Rediscovered", he writes the following:

    1. "Must" and "should" should not be used in regards to Gentile observance of Torah (p. 64, Torah Rediscovered).
    2. Believers (Jewish and non-Jewish) "should" live out what is written in the Word--"all of the Word". (p. 85, Torah Rediscovered).

    I think it's pretty clear that #1 and #2 are rather inconsistent.

    So, I'm not sure if either Berkowitz or Friedman are very clear in their writings regarding whether Gentiles should (in some sense) obey the Torah, or whether Gentiles and non-Gentiles should observe Torah in the same way.

    If anyone can clarify their positions, then please inform.

    best.
    Hi drs,

    Welcome to our forum!



    I agree with your observations, and would add that Friedman himself said that all "followers of Messiah" should obey Torah. Here's the quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Friedman in They Loved the Torah, pg. 121
    It behooves followers of Messiah to develop a theology that is true to the pattern of observance found in the Scriptures. While doing so, care must be taken to fulfill the mitzvot in a merciful manner, without placing pressure on others to do as we do. Therefore, speaking as one who believes in a merciful, grace-filled, and Torah-observant Messianic Judaism, I urge a closer study of Yeshua's practice of Torah observance. He is the perfect role model.
    To present Christ as the "perfect role model" of "Torah observance" implies that all believers should follow suit. The fact that Friedman's followers must tangle themselves in a morass of meaningless double-talk only confirms that there is a fundamental flaw in the foundation of his teaching.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #93
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    Friedman could respond...

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hi drs,

    Welcome to our forum!



    I agree with your observations, and would add that Friedman himself said that all "followers of Messiah" should obey Torah. Here's the quote:



    To present Christ as the "perfect role model" of "Torah observance" implies that all believers should follow suit. The fact that Friedman's followers must tangle themselves in a morass of meaningless double-talk only confirms that there is a fundamental flaw in the foundation of his teaching.

    Richard


    Hello,

    It seems that Friedman could simplify modify his position by claiming that all believers should continue to grow in maturity in obedience to the Torah.

    I don't understand why Friedman would not want to gently pressure others to grow into maturity (cf. Heb. 6:1).

    So, Friedman might hesitate (for reasons I don't understand) to gently pressure Gentiles to grow into maturity in obedience to the Torah.

    But, if Friedman simply started gently pressuring everyone (all believers) to grow in obedience to the Torah, then his position would appear to be coherent and sustainable.

    Regarding Romans 10:4, he could simply note that Yeshua is the purpose of the Torah.

    Regarding other anti-Torah websites, he could simply assert that pro-Torah Messianic websites are better justified.

    best,
    drs

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by drs View Post
    Hello,

    It seems that Friedman could simplify modify his position by claiming that all believers should continue to grow in maturity in obedience to the Torah.

    I don't understand why Friedman would not want to gently pressure others to grow into maturity (cf. Heb. 6:1).

    So, Friedman might hesitate (for reasons I don't understand) to gently pressure Gentiles to grow into maturity in obedience to the Torah.

    But, if Friedman simply started gently pressuring everyone (all believers) to grow in obedience to the Torah, then his position would appear to be coherent and sustainable.

    Regarding Romans 10:4, he could simply note that Yeshua is the purpose of the Torah.

    Regarding other anti-Torah websites, he could simply assert that pro-Torah Messianic websites are better justified.

    best,
    drs
    One point in your comments stands out to me. It seems you think that Christians should "obey Torah." Is that what you intended? Christians should go back to sacrificing animals and all that?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #95
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    Friedman could say....

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    One point in your comments stands out to me. It seems you think that Christians should "obey Torah." Is that what you intended? Christians should go back to sacrificing animals and all that?

    Hello,

    Thanks for asking....

    Christians can not sacrifice animals in a temple because there is no temple, presently.

    The Temple Institute website (as I recall) claims that about 200 distinct commands in the Torah pertain to ceremonial activities of that sort. Of course, such commands are not presently observable because there is no temple, presently. But, if (when) a temple is rebuilt, then these commands can be obeyed again.

    Christians can, however, grow in obedience to the Torah (obeying as much as is presently observable and properly applicable).

    So, if Friedman simply taught that all believers (disciples) should grow in obedience to the Torah by obeying as much as they properly can, then his position would appear to be coherent and compelling.

    Basically, he could say that Yeshua walked in obedience to the Torah, so we should too.

    He could say that the apostles walked in obedience to the Torah, so we should too.

    He could even say that all believers (disciples) are grafted into Israel as Israelites, so Christians should grow in obedience to the Torah because that's their covenant obligation as Israelite participants in the Torah-laden covenants between YHVH and Israel.

    Anyway, that's what I was thinking that Friedman could say.

    best,
    drs

  6. #96
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    Hmmm, Jesus interfered with the stoning of a woman caught in adultery.

    He transgressed the Sabbath.

    "Faith allows you to do things that law doesn't."

    Such as having mercy and compassion.

    Here is what Law allows. The death penalty for an assortment of crimes.

    Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:11,13-14)
    Contacting
    spirits (Leviticus 20:26-27)
    Working on the Sabbath (Numbers 20:26-27)

    Worshipping false gods (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)
    False prophets who deceive the people to reject God (Deuteronomy 13:1-5)
    Influencing others to worship
    false gods (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
    Disobedience of a child including gluttony
    and drunkeness (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
    A new bride not being a virgin
    (Deuteronomy 22:13-14,21)
    Adultery (Deuteronomy 22:22)
    Rape and fornication of an engaged (married) woman (Deuteronomy 22:23-24)


    Why would anyone want to go back to being Torah observant? Back to the Shadows?

    Jesus is the end of the Law. Rom 10:4
    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Righteousness comes by faith, now.

    The law was not abolished and will always be around, so if the law won't die and release us from marriage then we must die. And we die in Christ and are raised to newness of life to serve God in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the letter.

    Rom 7:4
    Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    Choose who you are going to be married to. You can't be married to Christ and to the Law.

    Rom 6:14

    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


    Jesus is Victor over Religion

    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

    Answering the Skeptics Bible

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    Jesus is the end of the Law. Rom 10:4
    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Righteousness comes by faith, now.

    The law was not abolished and will always be around, so if the law won't die and release us from marriage then we must die. And we die in Christ and are raised to newness of life to serve God in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the letter.
    Yeah, I'd like to know what "dead to the law" means to folks who advocate obeying Torah.

    And I'd also like to know why Paul taught that no one should get circumcised. That seems to directly contradict the idea that Christians should obey Torah.

    And why did Paul say that the Law brought death, not life? And why did he contrast faith vs. Torah? Etc., etc., etc. The idea that Christians should obey Torah seems to contradict most of the NT. Of course, the thing in Matthew 5:17-18 throws in enough confusion to make for good conversation.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  8. #98
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    Friedman could answer like this....

    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    Hmmm, Jesus interfered with the stoning of a woman caught in adultery.

    He transgressed the Sabbath.

    "Faith allows you to do things that law doesn't."

    Such as having mercy and compassion.

    Here is what Law allows. The death penalty for an assortment of crimes.

    Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:11,13-14)
    Contacting
    spirits (Leviticus 20:26-27)
    Working on the Sabbath (Numbers 20:26-27)

    Worshipping false gods (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)
    False prophets who deceive the people to reject God (Deuteronomy 13:1-5)
    Influencing others to worship
    false gods (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
    Disobedience of a child including gluttony
    and drunkeness (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
    A new bride not being a virgin
    (Deuteronomy 22:13-14,21)
    Adultery (Deuteronomy 22:22)
    Rape and fornication of an engaged (married) woman (Deuteronomy 22:23-24)


    Why would anyone want to go back to being Torah observant? Back to the Shadows?

    Jesus is the end of the Law. Rom 10:4
    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Righteousness comes by faith, now.

    The law was not abolished and will always be around, so if the law won't die and release us from marriage then we must die. And we die in Christ and are raised to newness of life to serve God in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the letter.

    Rom 7:4
    Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    Choose who you are going to be married to. You can't be married to Christ and to the Law.

    Rom 6:14

    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


    Jesus is Victor over Religion


    Hello,

    I'm thinking that Friedman could answer like this....

    Friedman could say that conflicts between competing instructions within the Torah naturally arise from time to time, and the proper Torah-obedient response to such conflicts is to recognize the hierarchical structure of Torah instruction so that actions may be performed in obedience to the weightiest of all applicable Torah principles. So, Friedman could say that Yeshua's actions were always in accordance with the weightiest of all applicable Torah principles, even in cases where lighter Torah principles were not obeyed. In this sense, we can all walk and grow and mature in obedience to the Torah, just as Yeshua walked in obedience to the Torah.

    Friedman could say that any apparent Sabbath violation was simply an instance of an action performed in obedience to a weightier Torah principle. Thus he could say that the Sabbath is not abolished, but merely overcome by weightier Torah principles in special circumstances.

    Friedman could say that faith does not justify rejection of applicable Torah instruction.

    Friedman could say that mercy is, indeed, a Torah principle (Mt. 23:23).

    Why observe Torah? Friedman could say that Yeshua did, so we should too.

    Friedman could say that the apostles did, so we should too.

    Friedman could say that YHVH commands obedience to the Torah, so we should obey YHVH.

    Friedman could say that the prophets commanded obedience to the Torah, so we should obey the prophets, because the prophets are not abolished.

    Friedman could say that the Ketuvim command obedience to the Torah, so we should obey the commands in the Ketuvim.

    Friedman could say that all believers are grafted into Israel as Israelites, so all believers should obey the Torah because this is their duty and obligation as Israelite participants in the covenants between YHVH and Israel.

    Friedman could say that all believers are participants in the Torah-laden covenants between YHVH and Israel; so, all believers should obey the Torah.

    Friedman could say that Yeshua is the Living Torah, so all believers should obey (not oppose and violate!) the Torah which Yeshua personifies.

    Friedman could say that all Scripture should correct and train us in righteous behavior; so, all believers should perform acts of righteousness in obedience (not opposition!) to the Torah.

    Friedman could say that we have no good reason to deny that all believers should continue to grow and mature in obedience to the Torah.

    Friedman could say that observation of a shadow-casting substance does not entail that the shadow ceases to exist.

    Friedman could say that the shadows of the Torah are not abolished, but continue to function to point to Yeshua, because Yeshua continues to be the purpose of the Torah.

    Friedman could say that he has no good reason to suppose that all believers should not grow in maturity and obedience to the Torah.

    Friedman could say that Yeshua is the purpose (not the termination) of the Torah, because Paul (in Romans 10) appeals to the authority of Deuteronomy 30 which affirms that (1) the Torah is not too difficult, and (2) the Torah is (by faith, says Paul) in our mouth and heart so that we may obey it.

    Friedman could say that righteousness has ALWAYS come by faith.

    Friedman could say that we serve in newness of the Spirit who writes the Torah upon our hearts so that we will grow in obedience to it.

    Friedman could say that we do not serve in oldness of the letter, because the old (and incorrect) idea that righteousness comes not by faith, but by faithless works of Torah-obedience, is contrary to the righteousness that has always been available to those who walk by faith.

    Friedman could say that, in Yeshua, we are dead to the curse of the Torah so that we may walk in the blessing of obedience to the Torah.

    Friedman could say that the fruit of our actions should be growth in obedience to the Torah (for all the reasons listed above).

    Friedman could say that we can't be married to the Messiah and also the curse of the Torah.

    Friedman could say that we can be married to the Messiah who IS the Torah made flesh.

    Friedman could say that we should walk in obedience to the Torah which our Messiah personifies, and which He commands us to grow in obedience to.

    Friedman could say that sin should not have dominion over us (via our faithless Torah-violations and subsequent curses) because we are positionally righteous by faith, and we are (in practice) continuing to grow in maturity by manifesting righteous actions of obedience to the Torah in keeping with repentance.

    Friedman could say that we are not under the law (in any negative sense), but we walk in growth in obedience to the Torah (in a positive sense). The Torah, after all, has many purposes (not just one). So, the fact that we are not under the law (in a negative sense) does not entail that we are not expected to grow in obedience to the Torah (in a positive sense).

    Friedman could say that we are dead to the law because the curse of the Torah does not apply to someone who has already died. And, since we have already died to the curse of the Torah (via our identification with the Messiah in Whom we live), we are consequently not subject to the condemnation that comes to those who are under the curse of the Torah. This does not imply that the Torah has no other purpose for us who have been raised to newness of life in the Messiah. And, this surely need not require the assumption that it is wrong for believers to grow in faithful obedience to the Torah.

    Friedman could say that since the accusation was false that Paul opposed Jewish infant male circumcision, it follows that Paul taught obedience to Jewish infant male circumcision.

    Friedman could say that since Paul taught obedience to the Torah, we may infer that Paul also taught obedience to the ethnically independent command regarding infant male circumcision (Lev. 12:3).

    Friedman could say that since the Torah of Moses does not command adult male Gentile convert circumcision, it follows that Paul's opposition to adult male Gentile convert circumcision does not contradict the Torah of Moses.

    Friedman could say that the Torah brings death via faithless human disobedience to the Torah, but the Spirit (who writes the Torah upon our hearts so that we may obey it) does not bring death.

    Friedman could say that Paul contrasts faith and Torah because faithless righteousness-by-works Torah-obedience is bad, and faith-filled Torah-obedience (with righteousness by faith) is good. So, Paul was not opposing and abolishing the Torah, but merely opposing improper usage of the Torah.


    Well, my dear friends, this is a position we need to think about.

    Yes, Friedman did not set forth all these things in his book......but he could argue this way if he wanted to do so.

    And, if Friedman did argue in this way, then it would appear that his argument is quite compelling.

    best,
    drs

  9. #99
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    Hey there drs,

    The reality is that the law cannot give us life. Only the exchanged life of Jesus Christ can give us life.
    Gal 3:21
    Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

    The law is good as Paul said but it cannot give us life. It show us our inadequacy to achieve righteousness by observing it and only brings forth death in us.
    Rom 7:5
    For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

    It is only as we are reconciled to God by and through Jesus Christ that we receive His life which is what saves us.
    Rom 5:10
    For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Because the strength of sin is the law
    1Co 15:56
    The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    The Christian's victory now comes through the indwelling Christ who is joined to our spirit, not a mind full of the rules and regulations.
    1Co 15:57
    But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Now, the only law that a Christian needs to be concerned with is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

    Rom 8:2
    For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    Our (the Christian's) High Priest is Jesus Himself, who fulfilled what
    Heb 7:16
    Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

    The law / commandment was unprofitable to bring us life, God's life in us.
    Heb 7:1
    For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

    We draw near to God now because of our Mediator and High Priest, Jesus Christ, not by observing Torah.
    Heb 7:19
    For the law made nothing perfect,
    but the bringing in of a better hope
    did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


    No more commentary is really needed.

    Heb 7:20
    And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

    Heb 7:21
    (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

    Heb 7:22
    By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
    Heb 7:23
    And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

    Heb 7:24
    But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

    Heb 7:25
    Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

    Heb 7:26
    For such an high priest became us,who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

    Heb 7:27
    Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
    Heb 7:28
    For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

    I can continue, but I hope you are getting the message. You should continue reading Hebrews 8, 9 and 10.

    May the Lord help us all,
    Rick





    There is no other book like the Bible in the world where you have to know the Author to understand the book. If Christianity were the religion of the Book then it would be no different than any other religion in the world. But, Christianity is Christ! It is the dynamic, personal Spirit of God functioning in man.

    Answering the Skeptics Bible

  10. #100
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    Friedman could answer....

    Quote Originally Posted by heb13-13 View Post
    Hey there drs,

    The reality is that the law cannot give us life. Only the exchanged life of Jesus Christ can give us life.
    Gal 3:21
    Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

    The law is good as Paul said but it cannot give us life. It show us our inadequacy to achieve righteousness by observing it and only brings forth death in us.
    Rom 7:5
    For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

    It is only as we are reconciled to God by and through Jesus Christ that we receive His life which is what saves us.
    Rom 5:10
    For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Because the strength of sin is the law
    1Co 15:56
    The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    The Christian's victory now comes through the indwelling Christ who is joined to our spirit, not a mind full of the rules and regulations.
    1Co 15:57
    But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Now, the only law that a Christian needs to be concerned with is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

    Rom 8:2
    For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    Our (the Christian's) High Priest is Jesus Himself, who fulfilled what
    Heb 7:16
    Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

    The law / commandment was unprofitable to bring us life, God's life in us.
    Heb 7:1
    For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

    We draw near to God now because of our Mediator and High Priest, Jesus Christ, not by observing Torah.
    Heb 7:19
    For the law made nothing perfect,
    but the bringing in of a better hope
    did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


    No more commentary is really needed.

    Heb 7:20
    And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

    Heb 7:21
    (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

    Heb 7:22
    By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
    Heb 7:23
    And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

    Heb 7:24
    But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

    Heb 7:25
    Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

    Heb 7:26
    For such an high priest became us,who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

    Heb 7:27
    Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
    Heb 7:28
    For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

    I can continue, but I hope you are getting the message. You should continue reading Hebrews 8, 9 and 10.

    May the Lord help us all,
    Rick






    Friendly Greetings,

    Thank you for the Scriptural passages which you have cited.

    Friedman could agree that faith in Yeshua (not faithless Torah-obedience) results in life. He could argue that we grow in obedience to the Torah because we are commanded to do so, not because we earn life through that obedience.

    Friedman could agree that faithless Torah-obedience is sinful and brings forth death.

    Friedman could agree that Rom. 5:10 is true, while also emphasizing that all believers should grow in obedience to the Torah.

    Friedman could argue that the reason that the strength of sin is the Torah is because faithless sinners are subject to the curse of the Torah, leading to death. However, we believers are raised to newness of life in the Messiah, so we may grow in obedience to the Torah, just as we are commanded to do.

    Friedman could agree that our victory is through the Messiah (not through a mind full of rules and regulations). And, the Messiah commands us to walk in obedience to the Torah. So, we should walk in obedience to the rules and regulations of the Torah, because that's what we are commanded to do as disciples of Yeshua.

    Friedman could agree that the law of sin and death (via faithless Torah-violations and subsequent curses) is not applicable to disciples of Yeshua because we who are disciples partake in the law of the Spirit of life. However, this does not justify rejection of our obligation to walk in obedience to the Torah as commanded in the Scriptures. Indeed, it is the Spirit who writes the Torah upon our hearts so that we will obey (not oppose and violate!) it.

    Friedman could argue that Yeshua is not a Levitical priest (cf. Heb. 7:16), but this does not justify rejection of our duty and obligation to grow in obedience to the Torah, just as the Scriptures command us.

    Friedman could argue that your reference to Heb. 7:1 is apparently a typo.

    Friedman could agree that we draw near to God through Messiah Yeshua, not through faithless Torah-obedience. And, after drawing near by faith, we grow in obedience to his commandments as an expression of our love for Him. That's why we grow in obedience to the Torah, just as the Scriptures command.

    Friedman could agree that the New Covenant is better than the Mosaic Torah-covenant in various respects. Nevertheless, this does not require the assumption that the Mosaic Torah-covenant is abolished.

    Friedman could argue that Heb. 7:20-28 is also consistent with the claim that all believers should grow in obedience to the Torah.


    Thank you for referencing Hebrews 8, 9, and 10. Friedman could argue as follows:

    Heb. 8:10 --> Friedman could argue that Christians are participants in the New Covenant, in which the Torah is written upon their hearts so that it will be obeyed (not opposed and abolished!) from the heart.

    Heb. 8:12 --> Friedman could say that Greek "adikia" is sin, and sin is violation of Torah. So, Christians should not sin, but obey the Torah.

    Heb. 8:13 --> Friedman could say that the old (Mosaic Torah) Covenant has not yet passed away, so Christians should obey the Torah, since the Torah is still in force even during the New Covenant era.

    Heb. 9:14 --> Friedman could say that Christians should serve God, whose commands are found in the Torah of Moses. So, Christians should obey the Torah.

    Heb. 9:26 --> Friedman could say that Yeshua came to put away sin, so sin must be bad. Christians should do good (not bad). Sin is violation of the Torah. So, Christians should do good in obedience to the Torah, not do bad in disobedience to the Torah.

    Heb. 10:12 --> Friedman could say that Yeshua came to be a permanent sacrifice for sins. So, sin must surely be bad. Sin is violation of the Torah. Christians should do good (not bad). So, Christians should obey (not disobey) the Torah.

    Heb. 10:15-16 --> Friedman could say that the Holy Spirit writes the Torah upon our hearts. So, we should obey (not oppose!) the work of the Spirit in our lives by growing in obedience to the Torah.

    Heb. 10:26-27 --> Friedman could say that it is bad to sin. Sin is violation of the Torah. Christians should do good. Thus, Christians should do good in obedience to the Torah.

    Heb. 10:36 --> Friedman could say that Christians should obey God's will (Heb. 10:36). God desires that His commands be obeyed. God's commands are in the Torah of Moses. So, Christians should obey God's will by walking in obedience to the Torah, just as God has commanded.

    So, thank you for sharing your thoughts and bringing these passages of Scripture before us.

    It appears that Friedman could argue a compelling case.

    He could argue that we (all believers) should obey the Torah,

    just as YHVH commands us,

    just as Yeshua commands us,

    just as the Prophets command us,

    just as the Psalms affirm,

    just as the Apostles taught,

    just as the Covenants entail,

    just as the consistent theme of Scripture instructs.

    best,
    drs

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