The "city" and "kingdom" are the very same thing Henry. I'm not aware of God creating more than one kingdom besides the different kingdoms upon this earth. In heaven, there is only one kingdom, and it's called the kingdom of God. In the Old Covenant, God's kingdom existed, but with regards to its first principals, most of which served as a shadow or copy of the kingdom in its fulfillment; that is to say, the kingdom as it exists now, in the form of the Church. The New Jerusalem exists in heaven, AND on this earth. The Angels serve the kingdom in heaven for the earth; the Angels are stewards to guard and serve the salvation of souls within each generation. And thus we who abide on this earth serve the New Jerusalem from the earth. Therefore, the will of God, being for our sanctification, takes place on earth from heaven; both go hand-in-hand.Joe, read it again, I didn't say the 'kingdom" is what we 'seek to come.' I said we 'seek God's 'city' to come.' We are the 'citizens' of the Kingdom/Household of God that resides in heaven.
As stated, the New Jerusalem exists in heaven and on earth; God's will in heaven and on earth at the same time. We serve the New Jerusalem as babies while on this earth. But in heaven, after we've passed from flesh to the spiritual body, we serve the New Jerusalem as Angels in heaven serving those upon the earth. So our duties and responsibilities never end. Some (not you) think eternity is nothing more than worshiping, drinking fruit juice, and eating from grape vines with a little cloud surfing (a little humor if it's okay). Just trying to keep the peace my friend.Established yes, but not completed as a corporate body (where all those to be saved are saved). Yes, here we are considered 'spiritually' (as an heir) in the New Jerusalem. But if not a heavenly 'city' of God, then how do you see the heavenly 'Jerusalem' you are to be a part of? Where will you reside?
No I do not deny the existence of an actual city in the heavens; I believe it is living and active for the sole purpose of tending the fields; the earth is that field. But this is a "new moon" process without end. As the scripture says:You deny the existence of an actual 'city' of God confirmed in the passages I gave. The Kingdom of God consists of more than just the body of Christ as I stated in post#14. God's Kingdom consists of a'city,' and its inhabitants, God, Christ, angels, and Old and New Testament saints in which they dwell.
And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,' says the LORD.
The New Moon from each generation is without end. [note: "all flesh" doesn't mean every single human being; this is referring to the flesh of all races, and not limited to the Hebrews]
This is what I refer to as the "Spiritual now, physical later" doctrine. This doctrine is not found in scripture. Rather, this doctrine was formulated based on the false concept of a restored Eden. Papais, a 2nd century false teacher is the one who formulated this false teaching. The Church questioned him where he received these oracles, and he claimed it was by word of mouth. But then many false teachers claimed oral Apostolic connection. Yet Papias had no scripture to back up his claims. He believed the same as most Futurists do today; the idea of a restore physical Jerusalem and a field of gardens to produce thousands and thousands of grape vines so that Christ can fulfill His statement, "I will not drink from the fruit of the vine until I drink it anew, in my Father's kingdom". Eusebius basically considered Papias to be a block head, denoting that Papias didn't understand that those passages were metaphoric and not literal.Of course Revelation is a vision given metaphorically and not to be taken in a strict literal sense, but nonetheless, it has a literal fulfillment. Are you not a literal and physical being? Yes. Are you not a part of God's Kingdom now? Yes. But for now spiritually, yet will it not become literal in time? YES! Or do you deny this?
Now, does this mean the kingdom is still being built? I do not believe that it is. The kingdom was established in the first century. The description and the dimensions of the NJ prove that this city is strictly Jewish. We became citizens of the kingdom through salvation, and thus fulfill within each generation the following:
And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.
And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.
Revelation 21:24-26 applies to us, and to all future generations beginning from the first century. When we help those in need, we are in essence, bringing the glory of the nations into the city or kingdom of God.
The city is the spiritual aspect of God's kingdom which we know as the Church. The Church of the first born exists in heaven, as it does on earth. But we, while on this earth, are unlearned children trying to attain to perfection so that we may abide in the heavenly Jerusalem; the earth is our planting field; our learning center. We become inhabitants of the kingdom by being born of the Holy Spirit. Remember that the gates are open. This means Jerusalem is not subject to attack. And we, the nations, bring our glory into her. So although we do not travel to physical Jerusalem to worship the Lord (as was required by Gentile converts annually in the Old Covenant), we enter Jerusalem by our services performed in the Church. We abide within Jerusalem always, and that without end, except our physical deaths on this earth, transferring from the temporary abode, to the eternal.Once more, we are the bride of Christ, and are the inhabitants of the city called the New Jerusalem. The city, the New Jerusalem 'as a whole' is called the Bride of Christ, the Lamb's wife. The Bride of Christ, does not consist of only her. Revelation tells us it is a city with other inhabitants that make up THE Kingdom of God (see above).
This is a false expectation that cannot be proven with scripture. There's no scripture that says salvation has a final goal or purpose. I previously quotes the prophesy from Isaiah that God's government shall never stop increasing. His government is eternal, and it's purpose is eternal. There is no such thing as a moment in time where salvation will no longer save any souls. Thus your statement "all that are to be saved are saved" is not correct. Now there was a limit on how many "elect" were to be saved, but this is not in reference to us, but to the "remnant" of the 12 Tribes of Israel. That was completed more than 2000 years ago; it was they who completed the New Jerusalem, thus giving reason to destroy the former Jerusalem.The New heaven and New earth only comes in when all that are to be saved are saved, and not until.
Yes, that is certainly worth celebration. Cheers!Well how about that, Joe and I agree on something for a change! Yippee!!
The proof is in the text. The New Jerusalem is described as being strictly Jewish. Its pearls, and stones are all Jewish, originating from the 12 Tribes of Israel. We are the inhabitants that travel spiritually to Jerusalem (that cannot be touched as the author of Hebrews states), and make up the nations who are blessed by the "healing of the leaves for the nations".Disproving the prophecy on whether all prophecy has been fulfilled or not cuts both ways my friend.
In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
The leaves are for our healing during times of distress and trouble. This has been the teaching of the Greek Orthodox Church since the 1st century. The "tree of life" is a visual of Christ Jesus. We, as Gentiles, are grafted into the tree of life by the Holy Spirit, thus enabling our adoption as sons/daughters. The waters flowing from the Throne represents the Holy Spirit. All of this came and was made possible by the faith of the early church standing fast despite widespread torture and martyrdom. Thus, the New Jerusalem is a picture of their faithfulness and steadfastness, all being Jewish of course. The 7 Churches of Asia were being shown that they were defending the New Jerusalem with their lives; that is why they were shown the vision; to let them know what they were fighting for.
He most certainly did destroy it, although not at the cross. The Law did not pass until it was completely destroyed in 70AD. Remember the Passover? Jesus fulfilled the Passover, but they would not receive the 10 commandments until 50 days later after being led out of Egypt. The same with Jesus; the law was introduced to the Apostles (Holy Spirit) on Pentecost, 50 days after His resurrection. But they would not enter into the promised land until 40 years later; this came in 70AD. By 70AD, the laws of God as received by the Holy Spirit, also known as the Laws of Christ, reached its fulfillment, and spread beyond ancient Israel, into the lands of the Gentiles, where the Church began striking down the nations with her King in the front leading His armies to eat the flesh of kings, birds, horsemen, the great and small, etc. Just as Joshua led the Hebrews into the promised land to begin cleaning out the sinners of the land, Christ led the Christians out of Israel into the outer nations to begin purging the land of its sinners. But instead of fighting with spears and swords, they fought with plowshares and pruning hooks (figuratively speaking); farming my friend. By planting seeds in the hearts of men about the Gospels, and overtaking the Beast and his kingdom.By His death Jesus fulfilled the Law, he did not destroy it. The Law stands to those who are under it, the non-believers to this day, 'till heaven and earth pass away.' Under the NC we are either under Law or under Grace. If in Christ we are under Grace (Gal. 3:13), 'Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law---'; if not we are judged under the Law. Rom 2:14 'For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.' (Read Romans chapter 2).
Correct, except this did indeed pass away in 70AD. Going back to my explanation of the Passover, the law was introduced to the Hebrews 50 days after they were set free from Egypt. But they did not enter the promised land (new earth) until 40 years later. The same with the Apostles and their disciples. Thus, the old earth passed away in 70AD. Now of course, I know you're still referring to the earth as the entire globe. But traditionally speaking, the "earth" was in reference to ancient Israel, while the "seas" represented the Gentiles. Israel was considered the "heart of the earth", and the nations were outside of the center of the earth. Remember, they did not know that the earth was a round globe; this was explained before. So what was expected to pass during Paul's day, reaches its fulfillment by 70AD; 40 years after receiving the Laws of Christ on Pentecost.For the unbeliever: Gal.5:4, 'Christ has become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.' It does not matter whether one falls back to the law or follows the law, they are not under Grace but under the law, and shall be judged accordingly. So in the NC age, beginning at Pentecost, Law and Grace continue 'till heaven and earth pass away.'
Heaven and earth passed away with a huge roar and raging fire, in 70AD.
I believe this is enough for now my good friend. I hope this finds you well.
God bless and peace to you all.