Speaking in Tongues

[kathryn]

Satan thought he knew exactly how to tempt Jesus in the wilderness. However...because satan is a DIVIDED spirit..not One with God...he has no access to the 3rd Heaven. He is relegated to the 2nd heaven..or realm of the soul. He used the written Logos to tempt Jesus. Jesus fought him with the PROCEEDING WORD from the Father.

God is speaking His Proceeding Word constantly to our Spirit and witnessing to it , in and through His Word made Flesh in Creation. It is vital now, as we're in the 3rd day...that we ask Him to reveal to us, any and all carnal mindsets might be keeping us from fully Knowing Him.

He has given us many examples in the written Logos...of witnesses in Creation of His Nature. We must re-mem-ber Him through these witnesses He has given and always meant for us to Know Him by: ...the human body, physical intercourse, the Sun, Moon, constellations, insects, birds...ALL THINGS; He is in and through all things.

He will ALWAYS confirm His Rhema in and through His Creation (the Word made Flesh) for you. We've been doing it ALL backwards. The written Logos was given as a curse....and continues to be so, if not "rightly divided" between a circumcised heart and our virgin subconscious mind. It will never run contrary to logic....but it will battle with the carnal mind...or uncircumcised high priest within, the Old man.

NO WHERE in all of creation...will you find the witness of the concept of Hell...or many other doctrines the church is still believing that go contrary to the Heart of the Father/Mother. He has given us the example of His heart by comparing it to the heart of the earthly parents (because it is one we can understand in our "flesh"without having to use our deductive/conscious mind to figure it out. This is His Word made Flesh in creation). He says IF WE know how to give good gifts to His children...HOW MUCH MORE WILL HE!

[Beck]

If your sister has to "teach" you how to speak tongues, then she is not speaking tongues. If you recall the book of Acts chapter 2, it was the Spirit that was uttering, while the Apostles spoke their own language. As they were speaking, the Holy Spirit translated for them to all the difference races who came to celebrate the great Feast. Devout Jews from all nations were in attendance, and while the Apostles spoke their normal language, the Holy Spirit translated to the different races AT THE SAME TIME. This means it wasn't the Apostles speaking in tongues, but the Gift of the Holy Spirit speaking/translating for them. As Acts said, "They each heard them declaring the wonders of God in their own language..."

Joe, that's absolutely true and speaking in tongues by some penetcostal churches seem to be a requirement to receive the Holy Spirit. It rather seemed that scripture teaches that every man is give a measure of that same Spirit. Paul also seem to teach that it (tongues) was a gift as well as the interpertation of tongues. That not all received these gifts but that some was given to the church for edification. Just like not all are called to preach nor teach nor the gift of healing.

When Paul talks about someone speaking on a tongue, it is not the person speaking in a tongue (language), but the Holy Spirit talking. But this wasn't without reason. If God is going to expect a handful of people to preach to foreign nations, they would have to have God's help in making this happen. But today, we don't need this help. English is so common around the world (at least in most places) that an American minister does not have to have God translate for him/her. Even so, I won't rule out the possibility that God may assist the witness as He did in the first century. But I just don't see this as being a requirement, especially as the First United Pentecostal Church teaches.

Just as Paul taught the people of Corinthians which probably where a mixed group of Jews and Gentiles that it would be more fitting to speak in revelation, by knowledge, by prophesy, or by doctrine. That those whom heared could understand what was said, but if someone speak in an unknown language no one could understand what was said, unless their was an interperter present.

To me this might suggest that Paul was telling them not to speak in Herbew or another language other than Greek inside the church. For if a stranger unlearned in this langauge come into the church and hears the tongue they would not understand and might say they you are mad.

I don't remember what minister started this tongue stuff in America, but I do recall it being involved with the rise of the Pentecostal movement. This is nothing more than sensationalism my friend. I was part of it once, and I left it when I understood the truth.

Joe

It has been said that it started in a revival called "Azusa Street Revival" in 1906. There is a report that there was Spiritists and Mediums working in the altars.

[Beck]

Hi Beck,

I'm right with you and Joe when it comes to speaking in tongues... When I first became a Christian I attended a word of faith church where they believed that the manifestation of the Holy Spirit was speaking in tongues. I prayed, and prayed to receive the gift, and was told I needed to just open my mouth and let the Holy Spirit flow through me...well, as many times as I tried (and it was a lot) I never convinced myself it was anything other than my own made up babbling. The same goes for all the people I have heard over the years who say they are speaking in tongues...to my ears it always had the same ring.

Rose

Thanks Rose, And I find that it's all an missunderstanding of scripture. Those first penetcostal movements took the KJV of 'unknown tongues' and found that if one open themselves to their emotions it would enable them to speak this unknown language of God.

What is sad to me is how I've grew up in these penetcostal churches and had a number of pastor's to preach to the congregation that if they didn't speak in tongues and be moved by the Spirit that they where dead and refer to Revelation 3 of the church of Sardis. They never acknowledge the misson to the commuity and how they worked with the commuity in food banks, and helping hands. They even openned the youngth center every weekend to the commuity, but according to these men of God they were dead not having the Spirit of God.

To say the least I got really mad and then disheartened at these ministers.

[TheForgiven]

Thanks Rose, And I find that it's all an missunderstanding of scripture. Those first penetcostal movements took the KJV of 'unknown tongues' and found that if one open themselves to their emotions it would enable them to speak this unknown language of God.

What is sad to me is how I've grew up in these penetcostal churches and had a number of pastor's to preach to the congregation that if they didn't speak in tongues and be moved by the Spirit that they where dead and refer to Revelation 3 of the church of Sardis. They never acknowledge the misson to the commuity and how they worked with the commuity in food banks, and helping hands. They even openned the youngth center every weekend to the commuity, but according to these men of God they were dead not having the Spirit of God.

To say the least I got really mad and then disheartened at these ministers.

My best recommendation (if you are still attending these churches) is to leave them as I've done. They are too caught up in petty man-made doctrines. Where clothes this way, hair must be long, to television, no radio (except when listening to a preacher), and other man-made ethics. Then there's the constant running up and down the isle, laughing or yelling out loud, and other emotionally based dogma. Paul states that Church services should be orderly, and not with massive confusion or sensational episodes (such as holy laughter or holy crying).

They accuse other Protestant Churches of being too dead for not talking in tongues, dancing with snakes, or rolling on the floor. They also accuse the Catholic Churches and the Greek Orthodox Churches of being dead, emotionless, or dead for not possessing THEIR idea of what it means to have the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit has one purpose, and that's repentance. This isn't manifested by gifts for others to see, as it was during the first century. The Holy Spirit is manifested by us listening to his instruction. But you've got to believe in your heart and trust in the Lord that He speaks to you by "INSPIRING" you to do what it right. Righteousness involves graces that you've mentioned; feeding and clothing the poor, taking care of others as you would yourself, and loving your neighbor as you would yourself. If someone possesses these attributes of the Holy Spirit, then chances are, they are being led by the Spirit. But the Spirit also convicts us of sin when we do sin, and makes us feel guilty so that we may turn to Christ for forgiveness, and repent. Of course when we refuse to listen to His instruction, and repent of our sins, then the Spirit may depart that person, and the lost soul ends up being "doubly dead" (Jude).

At any rate, don't get caught up in their disorderly conduct. I've been there, and done that, and I'm very glad that I left them. I'm not saying that they are bad people; we are all bad in one way or another. But to be "in your face" about it, and then propose that those are signs of possessing the Holy Spirit, is in essence, a bold evil without any remorse. Not to mention it is a complete mockery of God.

Personally, I think it's just the human factor yearning for something miraculous because we as human beings do not believe with our heart, but with our eyes; we rely on what we see. Talking in tongues is something they choose to believe, and yes, even with tears as I did. I knew I wasn't talking in tongues, but it felt good to believe that I was participating in manifestations of the Holy Spirit. My favorite minister from the First UPC was a man in Gainesville Florida, by the name of Jeff Arnold. His sermons are powerful, but I soon realized that going to Church to listen to a good sermon is no different than wanting to listen to a good song on the radio. But when I saw the rather luxurious car he drove, I knew that this wasn't a man of God.

Anyways, I highly recommend avoiding them. All we can do is pray for them, and for us as well.

God bless.

Joe

[Beck]

My best recommendation (if you are still attending these churches) is to leave them as I've done. They are too caught up in petty man-made doctrines. Where clothes this way, hair must be long, to television, no radio (except when listening to a preacher), and other man-made ethics. Then there's the constant running up and down the isle, laughing or yelling out loud, and other emotionally based dogma. Paul states that Church services should be orderly, and not with massive confusion or sensational episodes (such as holy laughter or holy crying).

Joe thanks for the advice and just to note, I have left that church for about a year now. Although I still have some very good friends that still attend. I will say that at least the Church of God (Prophesy) has come along way with it's doctrincal stance. As to the long hair and clothes, etc, but I do know you can still find those types of churches here in the south.

I also know of some very good ministers that feel the same way as we do. Two of them for a number of years tryed to move the assembly to a more enlighting way. These two ministers both bishops of the church have now given up their positions in the church. I commuicated to the bishop over the churches here in South Carolina and his best advice to me was about the same as what you recommended that is to leave if the Lord was leading me to. He also said that many were leaving for many other reasons (changes in doctrine stance). I can only pray that their eyes be open to the truth and they would recevie it.

At any rate, don't get caught up in their disorderly conduct. I've been there, and done that, and I'm very glad that I left them. I'm not saying that they are bad people; we are all bad in one way or another. But to be "in your face" about it, and then propose that those are signs of possessing the Holy Spirit, is in essence, a bold evil without any remorse. Not to mention it is a complete mockery of God.

I'm at this time searching for a good church to attend with my family. I just haven't found it here locally.

Anyways, I highly recommend avoiding them. All we can do is pray for them, and for us as well.

God bless.

Joe

Thanks Joe.