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Thread: Death and Hell

  1. #1
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    Death and Hell

    Trying to get a better understanding and how the bible use these terms. What brought me to this discussion is when Hell is casted into the Lake of Fire I assume the 'Second Death' is refering to an spiritual death.

    So for instance when scripture speaks of there would be no more death it would imply to those that have their names written down in the book of Life.

    So if Hell which I understand to mean Grave and Death which I understand to mean a spiritual death according to Revelation 21:4. How then are these casted into the Lake of Fire? So what is this really saying?

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    This link gives some good insight on the subject. http://www.2001translation.com/Hell.htm

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    I've read that link you provided and only came up with that it's "Hades (grave), GeHenna (garbage dump), Lake of Fire (Second Death), and Tartarus (dark place of fallen gods)

    Which I already knew?? What I want to better understand actually what is meant by using these terms to mean something else, what is that something else?

    When 'death and hell' is casted into the Lake of Fire. What does that mean? Does it mean the spiritual death or physical death? It would seem by the context it was to mean the spiritual death (ie Second Death). So would it also be the spiritual grave or Hell that is related to the Second Death and not the ground that one is placed in after the physical death.

    Is the place of Hell associated with Tartarus in that there one awaits their judgment?
    Last edited by Beck; 06-17-2011 at 10:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beck View Post
    When 'death and hell' is casted into the Lake of Fire. What does that mean? Does it mean the spiritual death or physical death? It would seem by the context it was to mean the spiritual death (ie Second Death). So would it also be the spiritual grave or Hell that is related to the Second Death and not the ground that one is placed in after the physical death.

    Is the place of Hell associated with Tartarus in that there one awaits their judgment?
    Not sure if there is anything "spiritual" about what John was relaying. Presummably when the events described by John occur it means that dying (death) will be a thing of the past and the grave (hell/Sheol) which is the place of the dead will be destroyed.
    So I guess a bigger question is whether or not the lake of fire is a literal inferno or whether it is symbolic of destruction from which there is no hope/promise of recovery. I believe it is logical to conclude that the LOF is is the literal end of aall things "thrown" into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by throwback View Post
    Not sure if there is anything "spiritual" about what John was relaying. Presummably when the events described by John occur it means that dying (death) will be a thing of the past and the grave (hell/Sheol) which is the place of the dead will be destroyed.
    So I guess a bigger question is whether or not the lake of fire is a literal inferno or whether it is symbolic of destruction from which there is no hope/promise of recovery. I believe it is logical to conclude that the LOF is is the literal end of aall things "thrown" into it.
    Sence I'm under the impression that physical death and being place in a grave wouldn't be what John is implying being destoryed it could only mean that of a spiritual nature, maybe why it's called the second death. Meaning that it's an spiritual death apart come the physical. So in that neither would be Hell an literal place as to the grave, but an spiritual grave. Or I'm I wrong in thinking that way?

    In what why are the martyred saints or those John refers to as being beheaded. How much does physical death play in this 'Death and Hell"?

    I would agree concerning the LOF as being the end.

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but many of the terms used such as Death, Hell, Sea and Earth have been used in a symbolic way. Here is how I interpert them.

    • Death= The spiritual dead as according to John 5:25 and Colossians 2:13 just to name a few. "We were dead in our sins" also how Revelation speaks of the fourth seal one of a Pale Horse and the one sat on him was named Death and Hell followed with him.


    • Hell=Jesus used this term in Matthew 5:29-30 and described it as a garbage dump where the body is casted, so in how Jesus used that term it don't apply to the grave where if one cut out a member to save the body from the grave it could only mean that in a spiritual sence. So both Death and Hell is relating to an spiritual death and judgment.


    • Sea= John help in interperting the sea and in Revelation 17:15 he give s that the waters/sea is "peoples, and multitudes and nations and tongues" John uses that term to describe the Beast of the Sea [peoples]and says that the sea gave up it's dead and with the new creation of heaven and earth there were no more sea. There's a deeper meaning behind this sea, but for now I'm leaving it to mean simply people's just to show that it's symbolic.


    • Earth= Is another one from nature that is used to descibe something other than the round globe. The simplist form in use would be how John descibes the four winds that should not blow not on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on the trees. And how Isaiah descibes the land of Israel as being formed and created by God. Isaiah 43:1 and 45:18-19. So when John descibes that there was a new creation of heaven and earth he was using that term in how to descibe the new covenant of Israel.


    So then may openning question is when we read concerning this Death and Hell we shouldn't apply that to physical death and neither to a physical grave.

  7. #7
    Beck wrote,

    So then may openning question is when we read concerning this Death and Hell we shouldn't apply that to physical death and neither to a physical grave.
    Beck, there are two sides to a coin. Scripture does not only speaks of 'spiritual' death. And a person who is dead 'spiritually' is not in a 'spiritual grave.' Biblically there is no such thing, although there is physical graves (places) from which the dead are raised. I don't see how you can find these passages all equating to something just 'spiritual.' Remember, though these things are given us in 'symbolic language" they have a literal fulfillment in both realms. In the spiritual realm (heaven) and in the physical realm (earth).

    God bless---Twospirits
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    Beck, there are two sides to a coin. Scripture does not only speaks of “spiritual” death. And a person who is dead “spiritually” is not in a “spiritual grave.” Biblically there is no such thing, although there is physical graves (places) from which the dead are raised.

    I don't see how you can find these passages all equating to something just “spiritual.” Remember, though these things are given us in “symbolic language" they have a literal fulfillment in both realms. In the spiritual realm (heaven) and in the physical realm (earth).

    God bless---Twospirits
    TS, Yes that's correct there are two sides to this coin. The physical and spiritual. On one side we have the physical which it seems when most read these's scriptures of death they relate it to the the physical, but as shown it seems to relate more to the spiritual. Case in point would be Jesus saying that the "hour is coming and now is when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of man and they that hear shall live."

    So if we have as you said two sides of a coin it would be as such.

    Death...Physical and Spiritual
    Hell...Physical and Spiritual

    What I am wondering is how to apply the spiritual realm of Hell? Since I don't think that Hell/Grave is what will be casted into the LOF. How is that even possible in the physical realm? Will God casted dust or dirt into the Fire?

    Only thing I can come up with is this from Buddhism of the ten spiritual realms Source from Wikipedia

    Hell is a condition of total claustrophobic aggression,[3] in which one perceives no freedom of action and has very little life-force (physical or mental energy). One feels totally trapped by one's circumstances, the being is dominated by anger, hatred and frustrated rage and, in extreme cases, the urge to destroy oneself and everything else. It is a very difficult realm to escape from, since the condition tends to be self-perpetuating, with intense suffering and aggression feeding each other (one's sojourn in Hell is described as being measured in kalpas).[4] Paradoxically, although this state is characterized by claustrophobia, there is an obsession with filling up any space which may present itself, since the space itself is perceived as being threatening. The desire not to fall into this condition is a powerful incentive for people to make efforts to rise above this state in daily life.
    In some type of way Hell is a way to bind and case one down. In a way used by Jesus to Peter that the gates of Hell shall not pervail. I away thought that to mean that the grave would not pervail, but is that really the case here?
    Last edited by Beck; 06-18-2011 at 06:06 PM.

  9. #9
    Beck wrote,

    What I am wondering is how to apply the spiritual realm of Hell? Since I don't think that Hell/Grave is what will be casted into the LOF. How is that even possible in the physical realm? Will God casted dust or dirt into the Fire?
    Beck, this is symbolic language used to bring across a specific meaning of what it is conveying.

    'Death' and 'Hades' (The Greek equivalent of the Hebrew 'sheol'; grave) being shown here in symbolic language is communicating to us that death itself and the concept of the grave will be brought to nothing; as well as all the dead who are not found written in the book of life at the final judgment.

    Since 'the wages of sin is death,' the absence of sin will mean the absence of death when 'death and Hades' is thrown into the lake of fire. This is verified by Rev. 21:4 a few verses later which explicitly states that in the new heavens and new earth 'death' itself 'will be no more.' This corresponds to Paul's statement in 1 Cor. 15:24-25 at the point in time when 'the last enemy death will be brought to nothing (destroyed (RSV), (abolished (NEB), and when 'death is finally swallowed up in victory' (1 Cor. 15:54).

    This is the meaning being conveyed to us in these passages.

    God bless---Twospirits
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    Beck, this is symbolic language used to bring across a specific meaning of what it is conveying.

    “Death” and “Hades” (The Greek equivalent of the Hebrew “sheol”; grave) being shown here in symbolic language is communicating to us that death itself and the concept of the grave will be brought to nothing; as well as all the dead who are not found written in the book of life at the final judgment.

    Since “the wages of sin is death,” the absence of sin will mean the absence of death when “death and Hades” is thrown into the lake of fire. This is verified by Rev. 21:4 a few verses later which explicitly states that in the new heavens and new earth “death” itself “will be no more.” This corresponds to Paul's statement in 1 Cor. 15:24-25 at the point in time when “the last enemy death will be brought to nothing (destroyed (RSV), (abolished (NEB), and when “death is finally swallowed up in victory” (1 Cor. 15:54).

    This is the meaning being conveyed to us in these passages.

    God bless---Twospirits
    TS, Thanks and I agree although from a different eschatological pov. What I gather from what you stated is that death and hell will be destoryed or swallowed up in victory as the new covenant is consummated. That is the old covenant of Death and Hell would be swallowed up by the new covenant of Life everlasting. It seems as if Hell is a concept of binding one and a place to holding one until judgment day. I see that as a spiritual death and hell were one is hold in darkness.

    Jesus said that the gates of Hell shall not pervail against the church so in a sence Jesus is saying that becasue of the knowledge of him as Christ the Son of God that darkness no more remain in them. It may well address Hell as binding and loosing of the chains of darkness as to were Peter was given the keys to the kingdom to bind and or loose.

    So in my conclusion Death and Hell is ascribed to as Death [bindness] and Hell [holding place or chains of darkness]. Both of these ascribe to a spiritual realm. That's not to say that our physical bodies would not die nor be placed into a grave, but I think the majority of the times Death and Hell is used it's realteing to the spiritual realm as to darkness and chains.

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