THE END OF THE WORLD or NOT?

**TheForgiven** · 06-14-2011, 09:38 AM

The few brands and types of Futurism all teach that one day our world will come to its end. Now some say that this end will be physical, involving not only the earth, but the universe as well. Some have proposed something like the "big bang" theory; that one day, the entire universe will just EXPLODE!

Other Futurists say that the world will not end, but it's life "cycles" will end; meaning that the cycle of age will no longer occur. Thus, this view teaches that only the risen saints will live on the earth, for ever and ever....not much to look foward to, if you ask me. The universe is too big to limit an eternal race to the surfce of a non-aging earth. Now if we will have the ability to leave the earth at any time, and travel to other distant galaxies, then perhaps that'll be something worth waiting for.

However, Preterists have been trying to teach these folks (all Futurists) that the earth will not die, nor will it stop the cycles of age; both earth and man. Take a look at the these two passages from God's word:

Ecclesiastes 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever!

Does this verse imply that one day generations will cease to exist? No, it does not, just as Solomon wrote from the Spirit that the earth will abide forever.

Isaiah 9:7 "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

Isaiah from the Holy Spirit states that the "increase" of God's government, through Christ Jesus, will have no end; it will never stop increasing, and it will never come to an end-cycle.

Futurists have a very difficult time understanding the simple work of farming. The famer tills, plants, cultivates, and reeps. Then the cycle starts all over again....and again....and again. No where does the Bible say that farming (spiritual point of view) will come to an end.

Any thoughts?

Joe

**mtzion211** · 06-16-2011, 12:22 PM

Hello. Of course I agree with you. As far as my studies the Bible does not show a physical end of the world. As you may be aware I believe that Revelation is about the SPIRITUAL accomplishments at the FIRST coming of Jesus. You may not remember me but you had referred to a video I made called: The New Jerusalem: A City That Even The Blind Can See! This is from over at bibleknowledgeonline.com.

Well anyhow I did want to join the forum and make some occasional comments. God Bless!

Tom

**Richard Amiel McGough** · 06-16-2011, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by mtzion211

Hello. Of course I agree with you. As far as my studies the Bible does not show a physical end of the world. As you may be aware I believe that Revelation is about the SPIRITUAL accomplishments at the FIRST coming of Jesus. You may not remember me but you had referred to a video I made called: The New Jerusalem: A City That Even The Blind Can See! This is from over at bibleknowledgeonline.com.

Well anyhow I did want to join the forum and make some occasional comments. God Bless!

Tom

Hi Tom,

Welcome to our forum!

It looks like you have some good stuff on your site. Folks should check it out.

All the best,

Richard

**throwback** · 06-16-2011, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by TheForgiven

However, Preterists have been trying to teach these folks (all Futurists) that the earth will not die, nor will it stop the cycles of age; both earth and man. Take a look at the these two passages from God's word:

Ecclesiastes 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever!

Does this verse imply that one day generations will cease to exist? No, it does not, just as Solomon wrote from the Spirit that the earth will abide forever.

Isaiah 9:7 "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

Isaiah from the Holy Spirit states that the "increase" of God's government, through Christ Jesus, will have no end; it will never stop increasing, and it will never come to an end-cycle.

Futurists have a very difficult time understanding the simple work of farming. The famer tills, plants, cultivates, and reeps. Then the cycle starts all over again....and again....and again. No where does the Bible say that farming (spiritual point of view) will come to an end. Any thoughts?

Joe

Well Joe, though I am not a traditional futurist and can be more accurately described as SOMEWHAT of a partial preterist, I fail to see how the scriptures you used support the points you put forth.
First we need to establish from not only the meaning of the Greek word or Hebrew word (depending of whether you trust the LXX or the Aramiac/Hebrew translations of the OT) as well as the contect to determine what "forever" means.
With that being said a proper endering of Eccl 1:4 would read:
4 A generation goes and a generation comes, but the earth keeps standing through the age.
From this we can see that the concept of forever has no place in this text. The standing of the earth and the going and coming of generations is tied to a finite time period with both a beginning and an end.

The Isaiah passage quoted in reference to Jesus' government is also highly unlikely to be a reference to an eternal perpetual reign as we are told that Jesus himself will at some point turn the Kingdom over to the FATHER subjecting himself to the One who subjected everything to him (1 Cor 15:28).

**TheForgiven** · 06-16-2011, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by mtzion211

Hello. Of course I agree with you. As far as my studies the Bible does not show a physical end of the world. As you may be aware I believe that Revelation is about the SPIRITUAL accomplishments at the FIRST coming of Jesus. You may not remember me but you had referred to a video I made called: The New Jerusalem: A City That Even The Blind Can See! This is from over at bibleknowledgeonline.com.

Well anyhow I did want to join the forum and make some occasional comments. God Bless!

Tom

Hi Tom! Welcome aboard!

I wondered how long it would take before you finally joined us. I know you're very busy, but gosh, I can't wait to see some of your inputs.

It's fantastic that you could join us.

Please, by all means; the floor is yours. Any subject my friend; it's all yours.

Oh, and yes, I remember the video of the New Jerusalem; so beautiful that even a blind person could see her.

Joe

**TheForgiven** · 06-16-2011, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by throwback

Well Joe, though I am not a traditional futurist and can be more accurately described as SOMEWHAT of a partial preterist, I fail to see how the scriptures you used support the points you put forth.
First we need to establish from not only the meaning of the Greek word or Hebrew word (depending of whether you trust the LXX or the Aramiac/Hebrew translations of the OT) as well as the contect to determine what "forever" means.
With that being said a proper endering of Eccl 1:4 would read:
4 A generation goes and a generation comes, but the earth keeps standing through the age.
From this we can see that the concept of forever has no place in this text. The standing of the earth and the going and coming of generations is tied to a finite time period with both a beginning and an end.

The Isaiah passage quoted in reference to Jesus' government is also highly unlikely to be a reference to an eternal perpetual reign as we are told that Jesus himself will at some point turn the Kingdom over to the FATHER subjecting himself to the One who subjected everything to him (1 Cor 15:28).

I certainly won't argue against this, as I too have often used the argument that forever, doesn't necessarily mean forever. But when reads verses like, "you have established your Sanctuary, and like the earth, it abides forever...", one tends to take this literally.

I, personally, do not see any reason for God to destroy an entire Universe when it took Him billions of years to create it...depending on whether or not you're a creationist or an evolutionist.

The world may not be perfect, but that's why we need God. But with regards to the earth, there's no proof that one day the earth will just explode, or that the sun will just explode. I say this because I've been watching the same old stars for more than 30 years now. And in my life time, I've only seen one supernova that's taken place; through television/media. And out of billions and billions of stars visible through the telescope, yet only one supernova. From this alone, and knowing how small our star is compared to the rest of the universe, I have very little reason to believe that one day God will destroy all of creation for the sins of a few generations (few from the universes stand point). What did the universe do to deserve such a disaster?

Who builds a car, utters the words, "it is good", and then decides he doesn't want it anymore, and so destroys it? Nobody that I'm familiar with. Yet that's how Christians treat God; they act as though His only desire was to build a temporary way of life of choice, and those who make the right choice deserve eternity with Him in a future universe after He has destroyed every single thing He spent building and creating.

Finally, what people fail to realize about the earth is that the earth is not our abode to be; the earth is merely the planting field for produce; we are that produce. Where is Jesus? In heaven. Where are the Apostles, and those of the first century whom they converted? In heaven? Where are our relatives? I would hope in heaven. So what's wrong with desiring to live in heaven for eternity, compared to this little round planet composed of rock, sky, and water, existing in an endless universe? Why are Futurists so eager to live on this little tiny globe? It's just a field for souls; a planting ground for raising new spirits. I'll never understand them. Of course, most of them are crazy anyways, with some of the beliefs they utter. One thing is for certain. It's certainly not the Preterists who make fools of themselves on national television; it's ALWAYS the Futurists, and this has been going on for over a Millennium.

Anyways, I jumped off subject here.

Guys I'm very tired. I've had a long day today assisting someone with her A/C repair.

God bless you all, and chat with you soon.

Joe

**Twospirits** · 06-17-2011, 08:33 AM

Throwback wrote,

Well Joe, though I am not a traditional futurist and can be more accurately described as SOMEWHAT of a partial preterist, I fail to see how the scriptures you used support the points you put forth.
First we need to establish from not only the meaning of the Greek word or Hebrew word (depending of whether you trust the LXX or the Aramiac/Hebrew translations of the OT) as well as the contect to determine what "forever" means.
With that being said a proper endering of Eccl 1:4 would read:
4 A generation goes and a generation comes, but the earth keeps standing through the age.
From this we can see that the concept of forever has no place in this text. The standing of the earth and the going and coming of generations is tied to a finite time period with both a beginning and an end.

The Isaiah passage quoted in reference to Jesus' government is also highly unlikely to be a reference to an eternal perpetual reign as we are told that Jesus himself will at some point turn the Kingdom over to the FATHER subjecting himself to the One who subjected everything to him (1 Cor 15:28).

I agree.

Full preterists also like to use Eph. 3:21 as a proof text that the world will never end, but this is but a poor translation of the KJV translators. The passage literally reads:

Eph. 3:21, 'To him the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all the generations of age of ages Amen'

'World without end' is a poor translation given in the KJV of that passage. The Greek is 'geneas tou aionos ton aionon' and means 'generations of age of ages.' This is to mean through all succeeding generations - while the race of human beings continues to exist on the face of the earth that now exists; "to Christ be the glory in his church."

God bless---Twospirits

**Brother Les** · 06-17-2011, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Twospirits

I agree.

Full preterists also like to use Eph. 3:21 as a proof text that the world will never end, but this is but a poor translation of the KJV translators. The passage literally reads:

Eph. 3:21, “To him the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all the generations of age of ages Amen”

“World without end” is a poor translation given in the KJV of that passage. The Greek is “geneas tou aionos ton aionon” and means “generations of age of ages.” This is to mean through all succeeding generations - while the race of human beings continues to exist on the face of the earth that now exists; "to Christ be the glory in his church."

God bless---Twospirits

Your protest of how preterists use the verse falls to the ground when reading all of Eph: 3, from the Young's Literal Translation.

Eph3:
20and to Him who is able above all things to do exceeding abundantly what we ask or think, according to the power that is working in us,

21to Him [is] the glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus, to all the generations of the age of the ages. Amen.

I want to first point out that you wrote,"to Christ be the glory in his church". Verse 21 says, "To Him is the glory in the asembly in Christ Jesus".....
We find in verse 14 whom The Him is that is given The Glory.... it is The Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (the Dyslexia kicking in for you?)

14For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Also, verse 21 says, "the generations of THE AGE of the ages."

With the understanding (going over your head already, Henry) that the first century Jews only looked at only two 'Ages', the Age that they were living in which was the Mosaic Age and the Age to Come, which is the Messianic Age. "The Generations of The Age (ie. the Old Covenant Promises fulfilled in the New Covenant) of the ages"... is the Messianic Age.... which Has No End....

**Twospirits** · 06-17-2011, 11:57 AM

BL wrote,

With the understanding (going over your head already, Henry) that the first century Jews only looked at only two 'Ages', the Age that they were living in which was the Mosaic Age and the Age to Come, which is the Messianic Age. "The Generations of The Age (ie. the Old Covenant Promises fulfilled in the New Covenant) of the ages"... is the Messianic Age.... which Has No End....

Les, for your information, the whole point and focus of my post was to show that the Ephesian passage used by full preterists as a proof text that the WORLD, IE, TERRA FIRMA would have NO END is completely false. The passage speaks nothing about the WORLD/LAND/SOIL having no end in the way they use and exegete the passage. That was my sole focus of giving the passage and I have done that.

As I said, the Greek is 'geneas tou aionos ton aionon' and means 'generations of age of ages.' To mean through all succeeding generations -while the race of human beings continues to exist on the face of the earth. The passage speak nothing of the 'world having no end.'

So how does my protest of the full preterist's misuse of the passage fall to the ground?

God bless---Twospirits

**Brother Les** · 06-17-2011, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Twospirits

Les, for your information, the whole point and focus of my post was to show that the Ephesian passage used by full preterists as a proof text that the WORLD, IE, TERRA FIRMA would have NO END is completely false. The passage speaks nothing about the WORLD/LAND/SOIL having no end in the way they use and exegete the passage. That was my sole focus of giving the passage and I have done that.

As I said, the Greek is 'geneas tou aionos ton aionon' and means 'generations of age of ages.' To mean through all succeeding generations -while the race of human beings continues to exist on the face of the earth. The passage speak nothing of the 'world having no end.'

So how does my protest of the full preterist's misuse of the passage fall to the ground?

God bless---Twospirits

You are pushing an 'age' that is 'after' human beings Do Not exist on the face of the terra firma.The OT Biblical New Creation Has human beings on the terra firma earth. We ARE NOt in the Mosaic Age as it ended at the destruction (consemation) of the Temple Cultus World. This would put us (post 70AD) squarely in the Messianic Age. Under the Israelite belief of time, the Messianic Age has no end. The 'Mosaic Age' was Everlasting until it's fulfillment, there is no Fulfillment timeline in the New Covenant Age Marriage contract.