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  1. #1
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    The Apostasy of John Hagee: Jesus was NOT the Messiah!

    Here is the article I just posted in my "Research and Reviews" section (link). The formatting is better there, but I posted it here so folks can easily comment on it.


    ===========================




    John Hagee has one of the largest ministries in the country. Here is how it is described on his website www.JohnHagee.org :
    Dr. John C. Hagee is the founder and Senior Pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, a non-denominational evangelical church with more than 18,000 active members. [He] is the President and C.E.O. of John Hagee Ministries which telecasts his national radio and television ministry carried in America on 160 T.V. stations, 50 radio stations, eight networks and can be seen weekly in 99 million homes. ... [He] is the author of 10 major books published by Thomas Nelson Publishers.
    Any man preaching the Bible into 99 million homes bears a massive responsibility before God and his fellow human beings to accurately and clearly proclaim the truth. Scripture warns that "not many" should set themselves up as "masters" or teachers, for in so doing they risk a "greater condemnation" (James 3:1).

    Before discussing Hagee's apostasy from the Christian faith, it is important for the reader to know that I stand firm in my support of Israel for humanitarian and political reasons. I love the Jewish people, delight in their music, literature and culture, and deeply appreciate that God used them to bring forth Jesus the Messiah and the Holy Bible that proclaims the Gospel of His Messiahship "to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile." I condemn any form of anti-semitism as anti-christian and a sure sign of spiritual alienation from God. But I also know that you do not "show love and support" to Israel by denying that Jesus Christ is their Messiah, which is exactly what John Hagee has done.

    In his book In Defense of Israel (2007), beginning in the section called "The Jews did not Reject Jesus as Messiah" (p. 132) John Hagee relentlessly twisted Scripture in his attempt to prove that Jesus Christ did not come "to be Messiah to the Jews." His denial of Jesus as the Christ (Messiah) cannot be overlooked as a mere "slip of his pen" because he repeated his assertion "seven ways from Sunday" as seen in this sample of seven quotes from his book:
    • If God intended for Jesus to be the Messiah of Israel, why didn't he authorize Jesus to use supernatural signs to prove he was God's Messiah, just as Moses had done? (p. 137)
    • Jesus refused to produce a sign ... because it was not the Father's will, nor his, to be Messiah. (p 138)
    • If Jesus wanted to be Messiah, why did he repeatedly tell his disciples and followers to "tell no one" about his supernatural accomplishments? (p. 139)
    • The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah to the Jews. (p. 140)
    • They wanted him to be their Messiah, but he flatly refused. (p. 141)
    • He refused to be their Messiah, choosing instead to be the Savior of the world (p. 143)
    • Jesus rejected to the last detail the role of Messiah in word or deed. (p. 145)
    John Hagee's words directly contradict the central message of the entire New Testament. Indeed, John Hagee's words directly contradict the fundamental declaration that defines the Christian Faith, which is that Jesus is the Messiah (i.e. the Christ). This is what Peter declared in his first sermon to thousands of his fellow Jews gathered at Pentecost (Acts 2:36):

    Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ (Messiah).
    Likewise, this was the first thing Saul, the Jew from Tarsus, proclaimed to his fellow Jews in the synagogues immediately after the scales fell from his eyes (Acts 9:20-23):

    And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests? But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ. And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:
    Scripture declares that Saul, who soon would be known as the Apostle Paul, preached and proved to his Jewish audience that Jesus is Messiah. The Gospel itself is called the "Gospel of Christ" or in Jewish terms, the Gospel of the Messiah! This fact is so very elementary it seems almost foolish to belabour it. That any genuinely Christian teacher could err on this point is inconceiveable because the error concerns the primal definition of Christianity itself. Scripture therefore places this error under the greatest possible condemnation:

    Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. -- 1 John 2:22
    Liar! Antichrist! There is no mistaking the apostasy here. The word "Christ" literally means "Messiah." The New Testament could be faithfully translated with all references to Jesus Christ rendered as "Jesus the Messiah." Indeed, the Complete Jewish Bible translates the verse above as "Who is a liar at all, if not the person who denies that Yeshua is the Messiah?" How then is it possible that John Hagee, who has been preaching and teaching the "Bible" for over forty years, could suddenly turn and deny that Jesus is the Messiah? Is it possible that we are misunderstanding what he really meant? The unfortunate answer is that Hagee left no room for misunderstanding. He repeated his heresies over and over again. Let us begin with this quote from pages 137-138:


    If God intended for Jesus to be the Messiah of Israel, why didn't he authorize Jesus to use supernatural signs to prove he was God's Messiah, just as Moses had done? The Jews, knowing of Moses's signs to Israel, asked for a supernatural sign that Jesus was indeed their Messiah. Jesus answered:
    No sign will be given...except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. -- Matthew 12:39-40
    Jesus refused to give a sign. He only compared himself with the prophet Jonah, who carried the message of repentance from God to the Gentiles in Nineveh.
    This one quote has many errors. The first is Hagee's failure to recognize that the "sign of Jonah" was the ultimate miraculous sign upon which all Christianity stands, namely, the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is the supreme sign that God gave to prove that Jesus is the Messiah. Hagee ignored it as if it were nothing; his six page Index doesn't even have an entry for "resurrection." He also erred in his assertion that God didn't "authorize Jesus to use supernatural signs to prove he was God's Messiah." This directly contradicts the words preached by the Apostle Peter at Pentecost (Acts 2:22-23)

    Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
    Hagee's claim also contradicts Christ's answer to the Jews when they demanded to know if He was Messiah (John 10:24-33):

    Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Messiah, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
    Christ cited the "good works" of His miraculous signs as proof that He is Messiah. John's Gospel was designed around seven of those signs, beginning with the miraculous transformation of water into wine and culminating in the resurrection of Lazarus from the dead after which the Jews, predictably, plotted again to murder him. The Apostle John drove the final nail into the coffin of Hagee's heresy when he summed up the purpose of his Gospel (John 20:30-31):

    And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
    Peter, Paul, and John are but three of the New Testament Jews who declared to their fellow Jews that Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of God. Yet Hagee denies that Jesus ever claimed to be the Messiah, and with that false presupposition attempts to exonerate "the Jews" by asking "How can the Jews be blamed for rejecting what was never offered?" (p. 136). He repeatedly denies that the "Jews as a people" were in any way responsible for the death of Christ. Peter's pentecostal sermon quoted above provides another refuation of this error. The Apostle addressed the whole crowd of multiplied thousands, saying "Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem" (Acts 2:14), and the accused them all saying "God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Messiah." He declared them all guilty of killing Jesus and contrary to Hagee, told those thousands upon thousands of first century Jews that Jesus was not only "Lord" but also MESSIAH. This was the declaration of all the Jews who believed: Jesus is Messiah! This pricked the crowd to their heart, and about three thousand Jews were saved that day. Yet in the face of all this biblical evidence, John Hagee continues to deny that Jesus is the Messiah to the Jews, saying "The people wanted him to be their Messiah, but he flatly refused" (p. 139).

    It is a most unfortunate fact that Hagee's errors cannot be discounted as innocent mistakes. In his quote of Matthew 12 in the tan box above, he willfully omitted Scripture that contradicted his thesis. The true reason that "Jesus refused to give a sign" in that particular passage is revealed in the text that Hagee deliberately hid from his readers (Matthew 12:38-41, NKJV):

    Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
    The words Hagee quoted are underlined. He ripped them out of their context in which they are bracketed before and after by Christ's rebuke of the "evil and adulterous generation" that would be condemned by the wicked "men of Nineveh" in the Day of Judgment. Matthew 12 is but one of the many texts in which Christ condemned the whole generation of Jews that rejected him, not just "the high priest and his circle of religious conspirators" as Hagee falsely asserts (p. 128). Hagee attempted as similar ruse on page 138 (emphasis added):

    When Jesus went on trial, Herod "had desired for a long time to see Him...and he hoped to see some miracle [sign] done by Him" (Luke 23:8). Jesus refused to produce a sign for the national leadership of Israel in an attempt to prove he was the Messiah because it was not the Father's will, nor his, to be the Messiah. Jesus's repeated response to the Jewish people who urged him to be their Messiah was, "My kindgom is not of this world" (John 18:36)
    This sheds some light on the source of Hagee's error. It seems he has wholeheartedly adopted the unbiblical definition of the Messiah promoted by the unbelieving Jews who deny Christ on the pretext that He failed to defeat the Romans and set up an earthly ethnic kingom on some dusty Middle East real estate. Thus Hagee rejects Jesus as the Christ because His Kingdom "is not of this world." This is confirmed on page 139 (emphasis added):

    If Jesus wanted to be Messiah, why did he repeatedly tell his disciples and followers to "tell no one" about his supernatural accomplishments? Think about it! If the man were trying to gain national attention to rally the support of the general public for the overthrow of mighty Rome, he would not go around the country saying "Tell no one!"
    So there it is. Though he never explicitly stated his definition, Hagee used the word "Messiah" to designate nothing but a conquering Jew who would "smash Rome" and "usher in an era of universal peace" (p. 141). Since Jesus did not come to do this, He was "not the Messiah" by Hagee's heretical definition. Thus the Jews are completely exonerated for rejecting Christ, for indeed, "The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah to the Jews" (p. 140).
    It is a tragedy that Hagee wrote as if he never understood a single word of the New Testament proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus the Messiah. How else could he assert that there is a distinction between Jesus as Saviour and Jesus as Messiah as he did when he asserted that "He refused to be their Messiah, choosing instead to be the Savior of the world" (p. 143)? He appears to know less of the Gospel than any ten year old child who has recited Luke 2:11 in a Christmans pageant:

    For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
    These are the apostate antichrist teachings of John Hagee. He explicitly and repeatedly denies that Jesus came to be the Messiah to the Jews. John Hagee needs to repent. All faithful and orthodox Christians need to warn others of his false teachings.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  2. #2
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    Comments from others ....

    More and more blogs are picking up on the Hagee Heresy.

    The Sola Dei Gloria blog has a video of Hagee denying Jesus came to be the Messiah. The blogger comments: "After finding a clip and hearing the man myself, the only thing I can say is he is now a heretic in my book."

    They are talking about it on the True Discernment and Threshingfloor blogs.

    Here is a good article about Hagee's Dual Covenant heresy: http://apostasywatch.com/wolves3/page7.html

    The Free Republic board is talking about it.

    And a lot is being said on the Godlikeproductions.com forum. The first post contains this comment:

    Pray for Haggee as he has twisted God's Word to placate the Jews of Israel and preaches lies and false doctrine. If you follow his teachings I would stop immediately and ask the Lord to open your heart to the truth. We were warned false teachers would come in the last days "making merchandise of His body" , Haggee is only one of many. (2 Peter 2:1-3)
    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #3
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    Well Hagee was wrong to join the AIPAC, but this takes this heretic one step further from the truth.

    I admired his teachings on the temple and Jewish customs and his explanations on many mysteries like the conception of a virgin that bleeds, meaning the man and his wife made a blood-covenant with each other. But after preaching against Clinton's sexual affair against Monica Lewinsky, he turns away from the truth. Can you believe it?
    What a double-minded man!

  4. #4
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    This very clearly shows us that we must be diligent to weigh the teachings of all men against what the Word of God says!

    11 Tim 3: 16 "All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
    And just because a man has a large following of people doesn't mean his teachings are correct

    Let us pray for wisdom and discernment

    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

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    Hi all,
    I've been reading in the forum for a few days now, and decided to jump in on this one.
    Could this be another "Christian Leader" going the way of his own views? Over the past few decades, there are quite a few that have been exposed and fallen by their own "thing". Certainly he needs our prayers.
    As I have been reading in the forum, especially in the eschatology sections, the things that happened to the Jewish people for not advancing their faith and belief into the fullness of belief in Jesus, is clearly spelled out in scripture, and was fulfilled in them after GREAT patience by God, in AD 70. And the Book of Revelation which as it states in verse 1 says that it is The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him, (John), or more plainly, The revealing of Jesus Christ, (or who Jesus REALLY is).
    I believe that this is one of the most important aspects of this Book to us in this time. -That this is who Jesus is, and these are the blessings that follow belief, and the consequences that follow disbelief, sin, and/or apostacy.
    In my own life I have suffered consequences of wrong choices, some minor, some major, and I have come to learn that the Spirit is not someone to be grieved, and our God will take action in His good time, and according to how He sees fit.
    May God open John Hagee's eyes before severe correction has to be administered.

  6. #6
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    Hey Richard & Rose & all,

    How sad that an obviously beloved teacher of the stature of Hagee is falling away from the truth, which is in Christ Jesus - John 14:6 : Jesus said to him : "I am the way, the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the Father except through Me!"

    Rose, your verse - 2 Timothy 3:16 - was preached from every Catholic Pulpit this Sunday - 10/20+21/07 ! You are right on the money. May Hagee repent and turn back to the TRUTH which is in Christ Jesus - Y'SHUA HA-MASHIACH - the MESSIAH of all people, Jews and Gentiles.

    Paul preaches in Damascus after his conversion... Acts 9:20 : and he (Paul) began at once to proclaim JESUS in the synagogues, that HE IS THE SON OF GOD. All who heard him were astounded and said, "Is not this the man who in Jerusalem ravaged those who call upon his name, and came here expressly to take them back in chains to the chief priests?" But Saul grew all the stronger and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus, proving that this IS THE MESSIAH.

    Shall we go back to Saul's Conversion in Acts 9? : Paul fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him : "Saul, Saul, (Hagee, Hagee) why are you persecuting Me?" He said: "Who are you, sir?" "I AM JESUS, WHOM YOU ARE PERSECUTING. Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what you must do."

    v. 15 : But the Lord said to Ananias : "Go for this man (Paul) is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before Gentiles, kings and Israelites and I will show him what he will have to suffer for My name." So Ananias went and entered the house; laying his hands on him (Paul), he (Ananias) said, "Saul, (Hagee) my brother, the LORD has sent me, JESUS / Y'SHUA who appeared to you on the way by which you came, that you may regain your sight and be filled with the HOLY SPIRIT." Immediately things like scales fell from his eyes and he regained his sight. He got up and was baptized, and when he had eaten, he recovered his strength. Notice that Paul was immediately baptized - in water and the Holy Spirit - and Paul became the foremost teacher in the New Testament. From the persecutor of "The Way", Paul proclaimed the Way, the Truth and the Life which is in Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who came to save the world (that INCLUDES the Jews), not to condemn it (John 3:16-17)

    May we all pray for Pastor Hagee - may the LORD appear to him and remove the scales from his eyes, that he may see and proclaim the TRUTH which is in MESSIAH Y'SHUA - Jesus Christ.

    This brings me to my time at Kenesseth Israel in 1999 - right after Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur and the Feast of Tabernacles did I send Rabbi Chaim Goldberger these exact words : "Saul, Saul (Rabbi Goldberger) why are you persecturing ME"? and then "Saul, Saul (Rabbi Goldberger) receive your sight - accept Y'SHUA HA-MASHIACH as Messiah". The result was immediate: I was FORBIDDEN to ever enter that Synagogue again, even so I had written Rabbi Goldberger many letters proclaiming JESUS / Y'SHUA as Messiah, but it was when I put it in the context of the Book of Acts that the message became so offensive, that I was told that if I returned to Kenesseth Israel Congregation, I would be arrested ! (I did return two years later and Rabbi Goldberger personally walked me to the door after the entire congregation turned around and followed this humbling experience). Nevertheless, the Jewish People are in my prayers EVERY SINGLE DAY - may the LORD HEAR and ANSWER (Jeremiah 33:3)

    Richard, how many times does Paul proclaim JESUS as Messiah? How many times do the Apostles and especially PETER proclaim JESUS as Messiah (Matthew 16:16ff etc.) - How many verses does Pastor Hagee have to remove from the New Testament to make his "new theory" stick?

    Jesus commissioned the Twelve in Matthew 10:6 : "Go rather to the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. As you go, make this proclamation: "THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND. Cure the sick, raise the dead, sleanse lepers, drive out demons. Without cost you have received; without cost you are to give." Amen.

    Pastor Hagee's "new teaching" should create such a firestorm that he would have to publicly repent or his ministry shall fall into disgrace because apart from JESUS / Y'SHUA there is NO SALVATION. Ann Coulter is a better theologian than Hagee! If there was SALVATION APART FROM JESUS, why did JESUS - Y'SHUA - have to die? A Messianic Jew is not a perfected Jew but a completed Jew. Jesus is concealed in the Old and revealed in the New.


    Question : Should TBN or any of the other Christian Netwoks carry such lies? Is the whole Evangelical Movement corrupt? Do any of the other "big names" come to Hagee's defense? Is this the apostasy that the Bible talks about? Questions, questions, questions...
    More later. At least there are a few of us left, who are following the teachings of the HOLY WORD OF GOD. (Below is the prayer that we pray DAILY at OLL, Mound (Our Lady of the Lake Catholic Church) - May God hear and answer!

    Shalom / PEace to Jerusalem and the HOLY LAND, Shalom among Jews, Christians and Muslims with JESUS - Y'SHUA - who is the Way, the Truth and the Life - in the Heart of all!
    White
    Last edited by White; 10-22-2007 at 12:29 PM. Reason: typos
    "According to the law almost everything is purified by blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Hebrews 9:22

    "Cleanse me with hyssop, that I may be pure; wash me, make me whiter than snow" Psalm 51:9

  7. #7
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    This explains why he side the ( unbelieving ) Jews and ( unbelieving ) Israel. He follows the worldly Zionist agenda. I'm not anti-semitic. In fact Jesus was harsher when he told the unbelieving Jews that their father was the devil ( John 8 ). The apostle John was as bold in his epistles saying that he who denies that Jesus is the Christ meaning the Messiah or God's anointed one that he is a liar and an anti-christ.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDRxmqOn7x4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7p7o4f4Asg

  8. #8
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    Let me explain further. Many Jews may be ignorant to who Jesus is, but it was the leaders of that time that led them away from the true messiah. The leaers resided in Jerusalem. Thomas had a point when he said in John 11 that if they go to Jerusalem they may all face death by the leaders residing there. They placed all kinds of false accusations that Jesus cast out devils by Beelzebub the prince of devils and that Jesus was born of fornication, that a Roman soldier raped Mary ( John 8 ).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpet View Post
    Hi all,
    I've been reading in the forum for a few days now, and decided to jump in on this one.
    Hi there Trumpet,

    Welcome to our forum!



    Glad you took the time to comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpet View Post
    Could this be another "Christian Leader" going the way of his own views? Over the past few decades, there are quite a few that have been exposed and fallen by their own "thing". Certainly he needs our prayers.
    Yes, Hagee is certainly "going his own way." The thing that mystifies me is how anybody who has taught the Bible for 40 years could deny that Jesus is the Messiah.

    I agree that Hagee needs our prayers, as do his many followers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpet View Post
    As I have been reading in the forum, especially in the eschatology sections, the things that happened to the Jewish people for not advancing their faith and belief into the fullness of belief in Jesus, is clearly spelled out in scripture, and was fulfilled in them after GREAT patience by God, in AD 70. And the Book of Revelation which as it states in verse 1 says that it is The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him, (John), or more plainly, The revealing of Jesus Christ, (or who Jesus REALLY is).
    Yes, I think that the sad state of pop-christian eschatology is due largely to ignorance about the fulfillment of "all that was written" in the first century. Modern pop-prophecy teachers act like the fulfillment of all prophecy in Jesus Christ means absolutely nothing. And the dispensationalists replace the glory of Christ for a dusty chunk of Middle East dirt. They are the ones teaching the real "Replacement Theology."

    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpet View Post
    I believe that this is one of the most important aspects of this Book to us in this time. -That this is who Jesus is, and these are the blessings that follow belief, and the consequences that follow disbelief, sin, and/or apostacy.
    In my own life I have suffered consequences of wrong choices, some minor, some major, and I have come to learn that the Spirit is not someone to be grieved, and our God will take action in His good time, and according to how He sees fit.
    May God open John Hagee's eyes before severe correction has to be administered.
    Amen!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    Hey Richard & Rose & all,

    How sad that an obviously beloved teacher of the stature of Hagee is falling away from the truth, which is in Christ Jesus - John 14:6 : Jesus said to him : "I am the way, the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the Father except through Me!"

    Rose, your verse - 2 Timothy 3:16 - was preached from every Catholic Pulpit this Sunday - 10/20+21/07 ! You are right on the money. May Hagee repent and turn back to the TRUTH which is in Christ Jesus - Y'SHUA HA-MASHIACH - the MESSIAH of all people, Jews and Gentiles.

    Paul preaches in Damascus after his conversion... Acts 9:20 : and he (Paul) began at once to proclaim JESUS in the synagogues, that HE IS THE SON OF GOD. All who heard him were astounded and said, "Is not this the man who in Jerusalem ravaged those who call upon his name, and came here expressly to take them back in chains to the chief priests?" But Saul grew all the stronger and confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus, proving that this IS THE MESSIAH.

    Shall we go back to Saul's Conversion in Acts 9? : Paul fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him : "Saul, Saul, (Hagee, Hagee) why are you persecuting Me?" He said: "Who are you, sir?" "I AM JESUS, WHOM YOU ARE PERSECUTING. Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what you must do."

    v. 15 : But the Lord said to Ananias : "Go for this man (Paul) is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before Gentiles, kings and Israelites and I will show him what he will have to suffer for My name." So Ananias went and entered the house; laying his hands on him (Paul), he (Ananias) said, "Saul, (Hagee) my brother, the LORD has sent me, JESUS / Y'SHUA who appeared to you on the way by which you came, that you may regain your sight and be filled with the HOLY SPIRIT." Immediately things like scales fell from his eyes and he regained his sight. He got up and was baptized, and when he had eaten, he recovered his strength. Notice that Paul was immediately baptized - in water and the Holy Spirit - and Paul became the foremost teacher in the New Testament. From the persecutor of "The Way", Paul proclaimed the Way, the Truth and the Life which is in Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who came to save the world (that INCLUDES the Jews), not to condemn it (John 3:16-17)

    May we all pray for Pastor Hagee - may the LORD appear to him and remove the scales from his eyes, that he may see and proclaim the TRUTH which is in MESSIAH Y'SHUA - Jesus Christ.
    Hello my friend!

    Thanks for testifying to the Truth of Jesus the Jewish Messiah! I stand with you in prayer for Hagee, that he may come to the truth and repent of his sins. But I do not know if he is a Christian, since by definition a Christian believes that Jesus is Messiah. This is so sad! To think of the number of people decieved and confused by his ministry. I am especially sad that his errors might undo the good work of stronger relations between Christians and Jews.

    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    This brings me to my time at Kenesseth Israel in 1999 - right after Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur and the Feast of Tabernacles did I send Rabbi Chaim Goldberger these exact words : "Saul, Saul (Rabbi Goldberger) why are you persecturing ME"? and then "Saul, Saul (Rabbi Goldberger) receive your sight - accept Y'SHUA HA-MASHIACH as Messiah". The result was immediate: I was FORBIDDEN to ever enter that Synagogue again, even so I had written Rabbi Goldberger many letters proclaiming JESUS / Y'SHUA as Messiah, but it was when I put it in the context of the Book of Acts that the message became so offensive, that I was told that if I returned to Kenesseth Israel Congregation, I would be arrested ! (I did return two years later and Rabbi Goldberger personally walked me to the door after the entire congregation turned around and followed this humbling experience). Nevertheless, the Jewish People are in my prayers EVERY SINGLE DAY - may the LORD HEAR and ANSWER (Jeremiah 33:3)
    Now that's a testimony I can recognize! You got expelled for speaking of Jesus as Messiah. And why do the Jews lift up Hagee? I don't think its because of his bold stand for Jesus as Messiah! You stand in very good company when they expelled you Monique. I'm thinking of what happened to the Apostles when they stood for the truth of Jesus as Messiah of the Jews before the high priest and the council:

    Acts 5:40-42 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. 41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. 42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus the Messiah.
    I have read that John Hagee has agreed not to "speak the name of Jesus" when speaking to the Jews.

    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    Richard, how many times does Paul proclaim JESUS as Messiah? How many times do the Apostles and especially PETER proclaim JESUS as Messiah (Matthew 16:16ff etc.) - How many verses does Pastor Hagee have to remove from the New Testament to make his "new theory" stick?
    John Hagee has to deny the entire New Testament, which is commonly known (via the King James Bible) as "The New Testament of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ [= MESSIAH]". This is a tragedy of immeasurable proporations!

    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    Jesus commissioned the Twelve in Matthew 10:6 : "Go rather to the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. As you go, make this proclamation: "THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND. Cure the sick, raise the dead, sleanse lepers, drive out demons. Without cost you have received; without cost you are to give." Amen.

    Pastor Hagee's "new teaching" should create such a firestorm that he would have to publicly repent or his ministry shall fall into disgrace because apart from JESUS / Y'SHUA there is NO SALVATION. Ann Coulter is a better theologian than Hagee! If there was SALVATION APART FROM JESUS, why did JESUS - Y'SHUA - have to die? A Messianic Jew is not a perfected Jew but a completed Jew. Jesus is concealed in the Old and revealed in the New.
    Right on, Monique! Preach it sister! Hagee has been pretty cagey about his "Dual Covenant" theology because he knows that orthodox Christians would reject it, but when you read between the lines, it seems pretty clear that he teaches that Jews don't need Jesus because they already have a "covenant" with God that is "still valid." The Jerusalem Post reported that he and Falwell "endorsed the dual covenant" theology, but they both later denied it. Here's a couple articles that take a close look at Hagee's theology:

    http://apostasywatch.com/wolves3/page7.html
    http://www.cephas-library.com/assemb..._theology.html


    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    Question : Should TBN or any of the other Christian Netwoks carry such lies?
    Many heresies as bad as or worse than John Hagee have been aired over TBN for decades. They make merchandise of the Gospel. Basically, they tell poverty stricken single mothers and old folks living on welfare checks "Give me all your money and God will make you rich! And if you don't, He will curse you!"

    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    Is the whole Evangelical Movement corrupt?
    A large segment certainly is. But then, God never identified His Body with "the Evangelical Movement" which is mostly an American Cultural Phenomenon anyway. Its a funny thing, but many folks seem to think that Christianity was born in the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    Do any of the other "big names" come to Hagee's defense?
    I haven't heard much from the "big names" pro or con. I know that the hucksters like Benny Hinn and Paul Crouch will probably wish once again that they had a "Holy Ghost machine gun" so they could "blow us all away" like when they were called on their previous heresies.

    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    Is this the apostasy that the Bible talks about? Questions, questions, questions...
    I don't think this is anything like "the Great Apostasy" that endtime theories talk about because things like this have been going on since the beginning. Remember the words of the Bible written nearly two thousand years ago:

    2 Peter 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    More later. At least there are a few of us left, who are following the teachings of the HOLY WORD OF GOD. (Below is the prayer that we pray DAILY at OLL, Mound (Our Lady of the Lake Catholic Church) - May God hear and answer!

    Shalom / PEace to Jerusalem and the HOLY LAND, Shalom among Jews, Christians and Muslims with JESUS - Y'SHUA - who is the Way, the Truth and the Life - in the Heart of all!
    White
    Thank God that there are MANY who belong to Him.

    Richard

    PS: I got the CD with the Medallion pictures. I'll be posting them soon. Thanks!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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