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  1. #1
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    Fixing the Bible

    Beginning with Genesis 1 and continuing through the entire Bible, those who read its content and believe it is the word of God are compelled to 'Fix it'…over, and over again the words must be "fixed" to fit reality. This strange behavior happens all because people are told these words are from God.

    Whether it be explaining how God really created the heaven and earth despite what Genesis 1 says, or the reason the Bible gives two different accounts of the death of Judas…it is a continual effort to correct what is written – to fix – that which God has supposedly inspired.

    Something to think about...


    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

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    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Beginning with Genesis 1 and continuing through the entire Bible, those who read its content and believe it is the word of God are compelled to 'Fix it'…over, and over again the words must be "fixed" to fit reality. This strange behavior happens all because people are told these words are from God.

    Whether it be explaining how God really created the heaven and earth despite what Genesis 1 says, or the reason the Bible gives two different accounts of the death of Judas…it is a continual effort to correct what is written – to fix – that which God has supposedly inspired.

    Something to think about...


    Rose
    I agree. And it exposes a fundamental problem. How can the Bible be a "guide" to truth if we have to keep correcting it with out own knowledge?

    Now that's something to think about!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  3. #3
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    I think that's stupid.

    I just read Rev. 22:18-19 and that's what I believe. Call me a simple believer I like that

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by NumberX View Post
    I think that's stupid.

    I just read Rev. 22:18-19 and that's what I believe. Call me a simple believer I like that
    No you don't. You don't really believe everything in the Bible because that is a logical impossibility. You have to add things and reinterpret things, and sometimes just plain ignore things that don't "fit" with the rest of the Bible.

    I don't call your belief "simple" because it is not "simple" in any way at all! On the contrary, it requires an endless complexity of convoluted words to make your "simple belief" seem possible at all.

    For example, do you keep ALL the laws of the OT? If not, then you are denying this verse?

    Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  5. #5
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    Oh you are right? It is not all about the physical plane no, that would be impossible. Do you think that I first have to understand everything and do everything on the physical plane what is written? Suppose someone is able to do that, then, at the end, the goal is? Considering whether the person wants to be with God or not? After the knowledge. Well, NOT.

    The order is wanting to be with God in the first place by faith, and the rest like building up knowledge will be thrown towards the person. Love God with your heart, soul, and knowledge, is written, that's the order. Rose and you talk here about a different order, knowledge first and then soul (feelings) and then faith. The complete opposite. And then the goal is? It doesn't work this way because it is not written this way. When I read what Rose writes and what you write on the forum, you both already failed in the field of soul (feelings).

    Gaining knowledge of The Word is like eating in the physical plane, you don't know how many food you are going to eat and what you are going to eat in your way of life before you die. Should you know beforehand, how would that make you feel?

    I simply believe everything that is written because I understand that it does not concern the physical plane only and the understanding comes gradually.
    Last edited by NumberX; 06-05-2011 at 10:58 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by NumberX View Post
    I simply believe everything that is written because I understand that it does not concern the physical plane only and the understanding comes gradually.
    Maybe I don't know what you mean by "believe." I'm guessing you mean something like "I trust that it is true even though I might not understand it yet." Is that close?

    That doesn't work for me because the word "believe" implies an understanding. A person cannot "believe" something that is not understood. It would be like saying "I believe gilfledorf with my whole heart." And then I ask "What is gifledorf?" and you say "I have no idea! But I believe it!" Such "belief" does not have much meaning, does it?

    But then on the other hand, I understand that you could say that you believe that every word in "the" Bible is from God, and therefore true whether or not you understand it. I can see how you might believe that. But that's different than claiming that you actually "believe" the specific words that are actually written in the Bible. And there's another problem indicated by the word "the" that I put in quotes. There is no single Bible to believe! So which do you believe, and why? And even if you say the Protestant Bible, then you have to choose which version because different versions don't even have the same number of verses. E.g. 1 John 5:7 is eliminated in most modern versions. So do you believe it or not? It's a very sticky wicket it you really start to think about it.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  7. #7
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    There is nothing difficult about. Believe that every word in the Bible comes from God, I mean, whether understood at a moment or not yet. And the Hebrew source of course, where one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law (from the teaching, in the sense of teaching that is good for you, like put on a shawl for not getting a cold). Bible translations are different.
    Sorry but I feel that I am talking to a person who gets dumber and dumber.

    So you are not able to do that, well I am.

    You really want to know everything in the Bible first and breaking the order of loving God with your heart, soul and knowledge? All knowledge first? But what is your purpose with that?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by NumberX View Post
    There is nothing difficult about. Believe that every word in the Bible comes from God, I mean, whether understood at a moment or not yet. And the Hebrew source of course, where one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law (from the teaching, in the sense of teaching that is good for you, like put on a shawl for not getting a cold). Bible translations are different.
    Sorry but I feel that I am talking to a person who gets dumber and dumber.

    So you are not able to do that, well I am.

    You really want to know everything in the Bible first and breaking the order of loving God with your heart, soul and knowledge? All knowledge first? But what is your purpose with that?
    Well, if I felt snarky I'd say the same thing about you. And I'd be right. Your assertion that "not one jot or tittle" would be lost from the Hebrew law is manifestly false because there are many ambiguous verses whre we don't know what the original said. There are differences in the existing manuscripts, so no one knows what the original text actually said. Therefore, many letters and even whole words, including their jots and tittles, have "passed from the law."

    But that's really irrelevant because Jesus was talking figuratively, not literally, anyway.

    Now as for you assertion about the "order of business" - you cannot love a God you do not know, and you would know nothing of the God of the Bible if you had no knowledge of the Bible. So obviously, you yourself have the order backwards. You began with knowledge, and then when you got a little knowledge, you changed you mind and now claim that you began with God. That is simply not true.

    And it's also not true that I "really want to know everything in the Bible first" - I've never thought nor said anything like that. My reason for rejecting the Bible as the "inerrant and infallible Word of God" is two fold. First, it contains many contradictions, errors, and moral abominations. Second, the "personal God" of traditional Christian theism who intervenes and answers prayers does not exist. Everyone knows that God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers. This is why Christians always have to explain why God does not answer prayers. They might think God answers prayers because they have selective memory about when they lost their dog "Fluffy" and prayed for God to help find it, or when they had a headache and prayed for God to heal it, forgetting all the times when their child was deathly ill and they prayed and the child died anyway. We know this is an absurd world-view because it suggests that God is busy finding lost pets and helping high-school kids win football games while ignoring the cries of millions of starving children, 200,000 Christian victims of the earthquake in Haiti, all the victims of Japans tsunami and on and on. Bottom line: The world operates exactly as it would if there were no personal God answering prayers or intervening to protect us against earthquakes, illness, tsunamis or any other problems we struggle with every day.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  9. #9
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    The scroll of the Hebrew Torah I know, has been unchanged for centuries, everywhere is a scroll present with the same amount of 'letters'. When someone wrote one letter wrong, he had to start again. It's the word Torah I translated above not as law, but as how I translated it. This corresponds with "not one jot or tittle". Pfft that I have to educate you this. Did you not know this? This is what I mean by that you get dumber and dumber all the time. And by the Bible Wheel and other sources we can understand that there is more on it's right place as it is today.

    So the order of loving God by (1) faith, (2) feelings and (3) knowledge does not apply to you and Rose and must be a big mistakes line in the text in your eyes. You can use it as a stick towards Christians who like me can simply believe and enjoy and expand knowledge.

    You are in the field of not having enough knowledge to have a truth, as your bottom line reads. Because of all kinds of mistakes you see. And your end goal is truth and nothing more it reads. Well we are all 'eating' everyday so that's no difference then any other person. You differ from a Christian by a lack of the above 1, 2 and part of 3. But don't feel uncomfortable, there are more like you who have a lack of the above 1, 2 and part of 3.
    Last edited by NumberX; 06-05-2011 at 03:24 PM.

  10. #10
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    Never mind the 'fixing' -- instead, keep on reading!

    We wondered how Noah knew the difference between the clean and unclean animals, when Leviticus hadn't yet been written.

    We wondered why God created it w/o form or void, until the "tohu va bohu" showed up in Isa45:18.

    We wondered at all the doubles and twice-told, until we got to Gen41:32 and learned that "by two it's established”. A study of the "two's" may have been intended when Paul wrote about studying to show yourself approved.. hmmm?
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

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