Judas Iscariot

[CWH]

Three problems.

1) The Bible repeatedly promises that God answers prayers. You have just admitted that the Bible is WRONG on this point!

2) And how does God behaving as if he did not exist make those who say he doesn't exist look foolish? Isn't the truth just the opposite? I mean, aren't the folks who falsely claim God answers prayers the real fools? Think about it! You have just explained why God does not answer prayers. Isn't it foolish then for you to pray?

3) You post is self-contradictory. How does God NOT answering prayers teach us to believe that he will "come to our rescue one day and solve all these man-made problems." That's just nuts. If God has been absent for 2000 years, why in the world we that teach us to expect him to come and save us? And besides, we are the only ones who have solved our own problems. For example, when we relied on God, he was happy to have millions die miserable deaths in the Black Death plague. Now we have invented antibiotics and so we have saved the lives that God was happy to let die.


So you feel a need to "categorize" me? Why is that? Why can't you just let me be me?

But in answer to your questions and suggestions: Yes, I am a free-thinker. Aren't you? Has something stolen your freedom from you? And yes, I am a Gnostic in the most literal sense as someone who values KNOWING for my self as opposed to believing things others tell me I'm "supposed to believe." But no, I do not believe in an "unknown god." I simply don't know how to understand the "God" concept at this time. I don't think this makes me a "confused" person. On the contrary, anyone who thinks they know "God" but can't answer any simple questions about him, like why does he tell everyone to pray when he intends never to answer prayers? As for your suggestion that "all gods, such as Allah, Buddha, Krishna etc. refers to the same God" - that might work in a very vague sense, but certainly not in any literal sense since the religions that teach those gods are quite contradictory. Probably the best we could do is to see the best in each religion as a partial distorted perception of truth that played an important role in history. But I see no need to "keep" any of those gods. But then again, I don't have a strong opinion on that question right now.



Say what? First you explain why God refuses to answer prayers for 2000 years, and then you end your post with a prayer?

Are you reading your own posts?

That's not what I mean, I standby what I have said in other posts that God did grant my prayers at least 30% of my Prayers. And of the 70% of my unanswered prayers, there must be some reasons which I trust God's wisdom in not granting me. If I wanted the moon, you think God will grant me?

Man may solved one problem but created more problems for himself...just look at the Chernobyl and Fukushima nuclear power plant disasters. How many times must the nuclear power plant meltdowns before they are forever banned?

Never give up your faith, In God We Trust.
Many Blessings.

[TheForgiven]

Nuclear Power is safe as long as safety precautions are taken. In the case with Japan, it was not there fault; they were walking on new waters. The events that happened were caused by the earth quakes. But they had no idea of the problems they would face; in fact, nobody in the scientific world could anticipate the disaster that happened to Japan.

If we walk away from Nuclear power, then this would place a higher demand for oil-based plants. And POOF! There goes gas prices spiking to the roof again. And there goes global warming for the EPA.

I for one beleive we should build more Nuclear Power plants. But I wonder if anyone has ever thought of building them out at sea; this removes the danger from the land masses. Granted nobody would want to take a boat to work every morning. But that's just one idea out of a few that have yet to be dreamed.

Some desire wind-farmed power plants. But that requires too much land, too many air-turbines, which cannot satisfy the earths population demands for electricity. And solar panels? That's too expensive, and also requires too much land.

There's nothing wrong with Nuclear Power plants as long as they are isolated, and as long as safety measures are taken and STRICTLY enforced.

Joe

[Richard Amiel McGough]

That's not what I mean, I standby what I have said in other posts that God did grant my prayers at least 30% of my Prayers. And of the 70% of my unanswered prayers, there must be some reasons which I trust God's wisdom in not granting me. If I wanted the moon, you think God will grant me?

Man may solved one problem but created more problems for himself...just look at the Chernobyl and Fukushima nuclear power plant disasters. How many times must the nuclear power plant meltdowns before they are forever banned?

Never give up your faith, In God We Trust.
Many Blessings.

I'm sorry but your numbers are simply unbelievable. I think you just made them up. If not, then please provide some evidence. Did you keep a Prayer Log? I'd be interested to know what counts as an "answered prayer."

But there is a much bigger problem. Why would God answer 30% of your prayers, but let millions of Christians die in easily preventable disasters like the earthquake in Haiti? If that were true, it would seem his priorities are really screwed up big time. All he had to do was send a little messenger down to say "Please get out of town for a few hours. We have an earthquake scheduled for next Tuesday." And that would be it. All those lives saved. But no ... the real world simply DOES NOT (in general) operate that way. Natural disasters, illnesses, and other calamities happen just a frequently to everyone regardless of their religious beliefs. Statistically speaking, there has NEVER bean a record of any human being who got his prayers answered at anything like a 30% rate. Indeed, I know of now case of anyone getting their prayers answered in any consistent way. In other words, on average, folks get their prayers answered ZERO percent of the time. This is why your numbers are totally unbelievable.

Now as for you advice "Never give up your faith, In God We Trust." Would you say that to a Muslim? A Hindu? A Buddhist?

[CWH]

I'm sorry but your numbers are simply unbelievable. I think you just made them up. If not, then please provide some evidence. Did you keep a Prayer Log? I'd be interested to know what counts as an "answered prayer."

But there is a much bigger problem. Why would God answer 30% of your prayers, but let millions of Christians die in easily preventable disasters like the earthquake in Haiti? If that were true, it would seem his priorities are really screwed up big time. All he had to do was send a little messenger down to say "Please get out of town for a few hours. We have an earthquake scheduled for next Tuesday." And that would be it. All those lives saved. But no ... the real world simply DOES NOT (in general) operate that way. Natural disasters, illnesses, and other calamities happen just a frequently to everyone regardless of their religious beliefs. Statistically speaking, there has NEVER bean a record of any human being who got his prayers answered at anything like a 30% rate. Indeed, I know of now case of anyone getting their prayers answered in any consistent way. In other words, on average, folks get their prayers answered ZERO percent of the time. This is why your numbers are totally unbelievable.

Now as for you advice "Never give up your faith, In God We Trust." Would you say that to a Muslim? A Hindu? A Buddhist?

I don't pray for riches, I don't pray that disasters will not come, I don't pray that I will not have illnesses, I don't pray that everyone will not die. He already said that we will have wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and pestilence in Matthew 24. I pray what the Lord taught us how to pray properly. He taught us that prayer is not about money, not about no death, no disasters, no sufferings etc. His prayer is about not falling into temptations, deliverance from the evil one, forgiveness of sin and to forgive others, to have our daily "bread" i.e. wisdom of God words, to seek his kingdom and do His will, to keep his name Holy.

Do you got it? If you pray about NO death, No Natural disasters, no illnesses, and no other calamities..... your prayers will not be granted. This is how we should pray....

Let's pray:

Our Father who are in Heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread
And forgive us our trespasses
As we forgive those who trespassed against us
And lead us not into temptations but deliver us from the evil One.

God is Great, ALLELUIA!

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I don't pray for riches, I don't pray that disasters will not come, I don't pray that I will not have illnesses, I don't pray that everyone will not die. He already said that we will have wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and pestilence in Matthew 24. I pray what the Lord taught us how to pray properly. He taught us that prayer is not about money, not about no death, no disasters, no sufferings etc. His prayer is about not falling into temptations, deliverance from the evil one, forgiveness of sin and to forgive others, to have our daily "bread" i.e. wisdom of God words, to seek his kingdom and do His will, to keep his name Holy.

Do you got it? If you pray about NO death, No Natural disasters, no illnesses, and no other calamities..... your prayers will not be granted. This is how we should pray....

Let's pray:

Our Father who are in Heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread
And forgive us our trespasses
As we forgive those who trespassed against us
And lead us not into temptations but deliver us from the evil One.

God is Great, ALLELUIA!

That's a very well written post my friend! It communicates your view very well and your transition into the Lord's Prayer was very artful! But there is just one little problem - I don't see how it fits with your previous post. If you are only praying the Lord's prayer (and others like it) what did you mean when you said that God only answered 30% of your prayers? When you said that God answered 30% of your prayers, you were talking in the context of prayers for real "life and death" issues. Here is what you wrote:

Infants and children in 3rd world countries are also dying by the millions through starving and poor health situations. And a God that seems indifference to all the problems in the world and don't seems to answer prayers. I believe this is also done for a purpose... proving to us that progress without God in the sinful world is futile....testing us that trust, faith and perseverance that only God will be able to come to our rescue one day and solve all these man-made problems.... Proving "the fool says in his heart, there is no God".

See that? We were talking about real prayers about real things that God does not answer. We were not talking about the Lord's Prayer that is not specific and so cannot be "answered" or "ignored."

So getting back on topic: Do you agree that God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers for things like health, finance, romance, and all the other objectively measurable issues we all deal with in this life? I'm not talking about intangible things like prayers for salvation or the Lord's Prayer.

[CWH]

That's a very well written post my friend! It communicates your view very well and your transition into the Lord's Prayer was very artful! But there is just one little problem - I don't see how it fits with your previous post. If you are only praying the Lord's prayer (and others like it) what did you mean when you said that God only answered 30% of your prayers? When you said that God answered 30% of your prayers, you were talking in the context of prayers for real "life and death" issues. Here is what you wrote:

See that? We were talking about real prayers about real things that God does not answer. We were not talking about the Lord's Prayer that is not specific and so cannot be "answered" or "ignored."

So getting back on topic: Do you agree that God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers for things like health, finance, romance, and all the other objectively measurable issues we all deal with in this life? I'm not talking about intangible things like prayers for salvation or the Lord's Prayer.

I have expected your response and my answer is at hand.

I believe (and I am a guilty party) that many prayers are not answered are due to prayers that are self-centred and prayers that are not according to the list that Jesus taught. Other reasons which prayers are not granted could be the prayers are "bad" such as irresponsible, greedy, foolish etc. I f you want the moon and the sun, do you think God will give them to you? There are of course unknown reasons why prayers are not granted; I guess God must have His reasons. Anyway, I trust God for not granting my prayers or perhaps He has some better plans or He may be waiting for the right moment to grant my prayers. We will know the real reasons one day when we meet Him. God may also be testing our trust, love, faith and patience by delaying our prayers.

If God asks you to trust and wait for HIm, would you do so?.....

In God We Trust.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I have expected your response and my answer is at hand.

I believe (and I am a guilty party) that many prayers are not answered are due to prayers that are self-centred and prayers that are not according to the list that Jesus taught. Other reasons which prayers are not granted could be the prayers are "bad" such as irresponsible, greedy, foolish etc. I f you want the moon and the sun, do you think God will give them to you? There are of course unknown reasons why prayers are not granted; I guess God must have His reasons. Anyway, I trust God for not granting my prayers or perhaps He has some better plans or He may be waiting for the right moment to grant my prayers. We will know the real reasons one day when we meet Him. God may also be testing our trust, love, faith and patience by delaying our prayers.

If God asks you to trust and wait for HIm, would you do so?.....

In God We Trust.

Well yes, I suppose it is pretty selfish for the millions of starving children to be begging God for food all the time. And those poor women being tortured and raped, screaming for God to save them while he stands their silently watching every detail? Obviously, they are not sufficiently spiritual to see how good it is to suffer and die that way. And those 200,000 Haitian Christians that died in the earthquake? They deserved it because they were too materialistically attached to their cardboard shanties ....

So are you saying that God's "answer" to all those millions of prayers was for them to "trust and wait for Him?" That doesn't make any sense at all. They trusted, they waited, they died. How then does trusting Yahweh differ from trusting in Allah, Brahma, or Zeus? The result is the same.

I hope you can see that it doesn't help to "explain" why God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers. The fact that God does not answer prayers is proof of two things: 1) The Biblical image of a God who answers prayers is false, and therefore, 2) The Bible is not the Word of God.

Those are some pretty heavy conclusions. Making up excuses why God does not answer prayers does not help refute them. Indeed, I'm pretty sure they are irrefutable, but I would very much like to know if you (or anyone) thinks they can be refuted.

Great chatting!

[CWH]

Nuclear Power is safe as long as safety precautions are taken. In the case with Japan, it was not there fault; they were walking on new waters. The events that happened were caused by the earth quakes. But they had no idea of the problems they would face; in fact, nobody in the scientific world could anticipate the disaster that happened to Japan.

If we walk away from Nuclear power, then this would place a higher demand for oil-based plants. And POOF! There goes gas prices spiking to the roof again. And there goes global warming for the EPA.

I for one beleive we should build more Nuclear Power plants. But I wonder if anyone has ever thought of building them out at sea; this removes the danger from the land masses. Granted nobody would want to take a boat to work every morning. But that's just one idea out of a few that have yet to be dreamed.

Some desire wind-farmed power plants. But that requires too much land, too many air-turbines, which cannot satisfy the earths population demands for electricity. And solar panels? That's too expensive, and also requires too much land.

There's nothing wrong with Nuclear Power plants as long as they are isolated, and as long as safety measures are taken and STRICTLY enforced.

Joe

Does'nt that shows human technologies are unreliable? And we need God for a good solution. Building oil, gas, wind, solar powered plants have their problems and building nuclear power plants at sea is worse if the radioactive contaminated water leaks and contaminates the world's oceans.

Yes, 'n' how many times must the nuclear plants meltdown
Before they're forever banned?.......
Yes, 'n' how many times can a man turn his head,
And pretend that he just doesn't see?.......
Yes, 'n' how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, 'n' how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, 'n' how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom".

May the Grace and Peace of God be abundant in us.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Does'nt that shows human technologies are unreliable? And we need God for a good solution.

Say what? When folks had no fallible "human technologies" like antibiotics they had to rely on God and so everyone died in the Black Plague. Human technologies have saved millions of lives that would have been lost if we waited for God to give us a "good solution." How is it that you don't understand this?

Building oil, gas, wind, solar powered plants have their problems and building nuclear power plants at sea is worse if the radioactive contaminated water leaks and contaminates the world's oceans.

Yes, 'n' how many times must the nuclear plants meltdown
Before they're forever banned?.......
Yes, 'n' how many times can a man turn his head,
And pretend that he just doesn't see?.......
Yes, 'n' how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, 'n' how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, 'n' how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom".

May the Grace and Peace of God be abundant in us.

The "fear of the Lord" may be the beginning of some sort of abstract spiritual wisdom, but it won't save any lives from disease, accident, or starvation. For real solutions to real problems, we are on our own. The proof is totally obvious: As soon as humans discovered antibiotics, they saved millions of people that God was perfectly willing to let die.

[CWH]

Say what? When folks had no fallible "human technologies" like antibiotics they had to rely on God and so everyone died in the Black Plague. Human technologies have saved millions of lives that would have been lost if we waited for God to give us a "good solution." How is it that you don't understand this?

The "fear of the Lord" may be the beginning of some sort of abstract spiritual wisdom, but it won't save any lives from disease, accident, or starvation. For real solutions to real problems, we are on our own. The proof is totally obvious: As soon as humans discovered antibiotics, they saved millions of people that God was perfectly willing to let die.

Why is it that you don't understand the germs are fighting back? Now we have a big problem MRSA (METHICILLIN RESISTANT STAPHYLOCOCUS AUREUS) in hospitals and the communities in which only very strong antibiotics can fight these germs. And the worst of all VRSA (Vancomycin Resistant Staphylocccus Aureus) are on the rise in which no known antibiotics can fight them. These are due to rampant overuse of antibiotics; so you see antibiotics are no miracle drugs. Humans solved a problem but create more problems to solve. There are now more of these resistant germs and viruses such as CD (Clostridium difficule) toxin, VRE (Vancomycin Resistant Enterococcus), Bird Flu, HIV, Tuberculosis etc. We will see more of these in the future. Millions have died from these diseases which does not have much remedies. We are also seeing more cancers, heart diseases, strokes, why? Despite Food Revolution in the 1960s, millions are still dying from starvation...why?

Human technologies are unreliable and Man have not really won over diseases. Diseases and Death have not been won with millions dying every day.

Hosanna! Alleluia! Shalom! To God Be the Glory! Praise the Lord.