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  1. #1
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    Eusebius our New Heaven and Earth.

    Just found out that the end had came already. Thought that you would like to know that Eusebius relized that the end had come. What he relized was that what the Laws and Prophets had proclaim was completed.




    EUSEBIUS Bishop of Caesarea (c. 265 - 340) Extract from the 'Theophania' :
    "All authorities concur in the declaration that "when all these things should have been done" "The End" should come : that "the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets" : it should be completed : time should now be no more : the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass : in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets : or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth ; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations ; God's holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world. His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days--in obedience, faith and hope.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beck View Post
    Just found out that the end had came already. Thought that you would like to know that Eusebius relized that the end had come. What he relized was that what the Laws and Prophets had proclaim was completed.




    EUSEBIUS Bishop of Caesarea (c. 265 - 340) Extract from the 'Theophania' :
    "All authorities concur in the declaration that "when all these things should have been done" "The End" should come : that "the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets" : it should be completed : time should now be no more : the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass : in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets : or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth ; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations ; God's holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world. His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days--in obedience, faith and hope.
    Fascinating. I'll have to read the larger context to really see what he was saying. Thanks for posting this.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beck View Post
    Just found out that the end had came already. Thought that you would like to know that Eusebius relized that the end had come. What he relized was that what the Laws and Prophets had proclaim was completed.




    EUSEBIUS Bishop of Caesarea (c. 265 - 340) Extract from the 'Theophania' :
    "All authorities concur in the declaration that "when all these things should have been done" "The End" should come : that "the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets" : it should be completed : time should now be no more : the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass : in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets : or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth ; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations ; God's holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world. His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days--in obedience, faith and hope.
    Good post brother Beck. I saw this from Eusebius a little more than 10 years ago. I posted this on the Christianity.com website, and boy you should have seen the accusations of Heresy fly then. Funny how some of those Futurists will cling to Iranaeus, even when some of his teachings are easily refuted. But when we Preterists quote from Eusebius, it's automatic heresy by them. What's even more astonishing is how many Futurists call the Jews (modern day secular Jews) God's chosen people. But when it comes to Josephus, he's a blasphemer, and a coward, because he chose not to fight against the Romans. You'll notice that Futurism is plagued with double-standards, and many contradictions from within even their own belief.

    At any rate, good find.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  4. #4
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    Take a look at what St. Eusebius states about the destruction of Jerusalem and the Tribulation foretold by Jesus:

    "But the things which took place afterwards, did our Saviour, from his foreknowledge as THE WORD or GOD, foretel should come to pass, by means of those which are (now) before us. For He named the whole Jewish people, the children of the City; and the Temple, He styled their House. And thus He testified, that they should, on their own wicked account, bear the vengeance thus to be inflicted. And, it is right we should wonder at the fulfilment of this prediction, since at no time did this place undergo such an entire desolation as this was. He pointed out moreover, the cause of their desolation when He said, "If thou hadst known, even in this day, the things of thy peace:" intimating too His own coming, which should be for the peace of the whole world. But, when ye shall see it reduced by armies, know ye that which comes upon it, to be a final and full desolation and destruction. He designates the desolation of Jerusalem, by the destruction of the Temple, and the laying aside of those services which were, according to the law of Moses, formerly performed within it. The manner moreover of the captivity, points out the war. of which He spoke; "For (said He) there shall be (great) tribulation upon the land, and great wrath upon this people : and they shall fall by the edge of the sword." We can learn too, from the writings of Flavius Josephus, how these things took place in their localities, and how those, which had been foretold by our Saviour, were, in fact, fulfilled. On this account He said, "Let those who are in its borders not enter into it, since these are the days of vengeance, that all may be fulfilled which has been written." Any one therefore, who desires it, may learn the results of these things from the writings of Josephus.

    "Since, then, it is evident that our Saviour was anointed uniquely beyond all that ever were with the excellent spiritual, or rather divine unction, He is rightly called "Holy of holies," as one might say, "High Priest of high priests," and "Sanctified of the sanctified" according to the oracle of Gabriel."


    He was not the first to know this truth, as there were a couple of ECF's in the 2nd century who understood this, but were wishy-washy, changing their mind because of pressure from their leaders. I believe one such person was Oregon, who at first believed in the teachings of Papias. I read somewhere that he changed his mind, and believed in elements of Preterism with an expected future return of Jesus. I'll have to dig up my old studies.

    Having studied the ECF's, I concluded that none of them were directly inspired by God to write the things that they wrote, as they taught and wrote based on their understanding. Some were Futurists from the ancient teachers of "Chiliasm", while others believed in elements of Preterism.

    We can't place our full trust in the Church Fathers, and they were not infallible. But we can at least validate that our eschatology is not that much different from theirs, from a basic stand-point. Modern day Zionists have a type of futurism belief matching some from the past, but so do Preterists. Where our modern day Futurists differ is this European Union (EU) garbage.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Good post brother Beck. I saw this from Eusebius a little more than 10 years ago. I posted this on the Christianity.com website, and boy you should have seen the accusations of Heresy fly then. Funny how some of those Futurists will cling to Iranaeus, even when some of his teachings are easily refuted. But when we Preterists quote from Eusebius, it's automatic heresy by them. What's even more astonishing is how many Futurists call the Jews (modern day secular Jews) God's chosen people. But when it comes to Josephus, he's a blasphemer, and a coward, because he chose not to fight against the Romans. You'll notice that Futurism is plagued with double-standards, and many contradictions from within even their own belief.

    At any rate, good find.

    Joe
    Wow, Joe ten years ago that makes me a baby, And yes it a good fine I haven't ready this 'Theophania' and fining this was very inlighting from his and maybe other's early pov.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Take a look at what St. Eusebius states about the destruction of Jerusalem and the Tribulation foretold by Jesus:

    Joe
    Yes, Book IV is exceptionally good.

  7. #7
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    Just to follow up and update.

    This quote is from Samuel Lee and his conclusions. He conclused that Eusebius spoke of the End and the passing away all of these things. Samuel Lee thus concluded that allthose things had indeed passed away.

    http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/eu..._01preface.htm

    Samuel Lee;
    "I need now only say, all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth ; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations ; God's holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world. His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done"

    http://books.google.com/books?id=38R...page&q&f=false
    Beck

  8. #8
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    Smile

    Howdy Beck,

    Eusebius must have read through the thoughts presented in the canonized form of the new Testament.
    Call it pilgrims progress from one paradise lost to one which was found.
    Paul went in great detail about how the old was destroyed and done away with.
    Not destroyed in the singular sense of a people, nation and all the concepts which they
    had in the past and re-defined over time within their own progression of thought concerning God and man .
    Paul merged together the old and the new and made them all one in Christ.
    He done this through a series of expanding Bodies that encompassed the thoughts
    that would led the Corporeal Body of Israel from a national Whole Body universal
    of its peoples to that which in the end would be incorporated into the BOC .
    One in which they would be the first to enter through the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ.

    What occurred in the Heaven above was also made manifest within the now [ Post AD 70] BOC. A Body through which all peoples in they flesh may be saved.
    From a strictly physical POV, there is no more an Old Israel as it once was.
    The Israel of 1948 is a good deal, but that's about it from theological position.

    The concepts of the New Creation, New heavens and earth , the resurrection from the dead were all brought together by Paul to sum up the whole of all previous Jewish concepts.

    Like all other families, clans, groups, tribes and nations, they all from the beginning were
    corporeal organisms in the corporate sense that would eventually led them to their state of being as a Whole. There was in reality nothing there for the individual in their early beginnings.. All was for the greater good and well being of the whole.
    The separation of the individual from the unit as a whole was a long and slow process.
    In the end the individual would be seen as a part of the whole , bearing all the marks and attributes of the whole.
    Individualism become the name of the game, but now as in the past individualism apart from the whole can be just as destructive.
    After all, man is a social animal.

    Gil

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil View Post
    Howdy Beck,

    Eusebius must have read through the thoughts presented in the canonized form of the new Testament.
    Call it pilgrims progress from one paradise lost to one which was found.
    Paul went in great detail about how the old was destroyed and done away with.
    Not destroyed in the singular sense of a people, nation and all the concepts which they
    had in the past and re-defined over time within their own progression of thought concerning God and man .
    Paul merged together the old and the new and made them all one in Christ.
    He done this through a series of expanding Bodies that encompassed the thoughts
    that would led the Corporeal Body of Israel from a national Whole Body universal
    of its peoples to that which in the end would be incorporated into the BOC .
    One in which they would be the first to enter through the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ.

    What occurred in the Heaven above was also made manifest within the now [ Post AD 70] BOC. A Body through which all peoples in they flesh may be saved.
    From a strictly physical POV, there is no more an Old Israel as it once was.
    The Israel of 1948 is a good deal, but that's about it from theological position.

    The concepts of the New Creation, New heavens and earth , the resurrection from the dead were all brought together by Paul to sum up the whole of all previous Jewish concepts.

    Like all other families, clans, groups, tribes and nations, they all from the beginning were
    corporeal organisms in the corporate sense that would eventually led them to their state of being as a Whole. There was in reality nothing there for the individual in their early beginnings.. All was for the greater good and well being of the whole.
    The separation of the individual from the unit as a whole was a long and slow process.
    In the end the individual would be seen as a part of the whole , bearing all the marks and attributes of the whole.
    Individualism become the name of the game, but now as in the past individualism apart from the whole can be just as destructive.
    After all, man is a social animal.

    Gil
    I think this is probably the best interpretation if we begin with the idea that the Bible must be true since Preterism is the best fit (by far) to the Biblical data. But when I read the Bible it's very difficult to believe that Paul would agree if I presented this interpretation to him. I think he would have looked at me quite quizzically before turning on his heal and shaking the dust from his feet. He wrote as if he believed there would be a visible transformation of the whole world:
    Romans 8:18-25 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one also hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.
    It seems that Paul hoped for something that would be visible, since he contrasted it with "what we do not see." I can't imagine him accepting the "non-change" that happened in 70 AD as a fulfillment of his hopes.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    I think this is probably the best interpretation if we begin with the idea that the Bible must be true since Preterism is the best fit (by far) to the Biblical data. But when I read the Bible it's very difficult to believe that Paul would agree if I presented this interpretation to him. I think he would have looked at me quite quizzically before turning on his heal and shaking the dust from his feet. He wrote as if he believed there would be a visible transformation of the whole world:[
    It seems that Paul hoped for something that would be visible, since he contrasted it with "what we do not see." I can't imagine him accepting the "non-change" that happened in 70 AD as a fulfillment of his hopes.
    The post-cross jewish empire fell from 70 AD through 135 AD and the pagan man-god believing roman empire fell [through the following 450 +/- yrs as a result of Christ and Christians as declared by Gibbon in his book "the rise and fall of the Roman empire"

    The change is internal that effects the external. I would agree that there is yet organization and coming together to occur, likely through the preterist understandings.
    1Thess 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
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    If you are oppressed and enslaved by religious law, you may have a tendency to oppress, enslave and attempt to lord over others who are free.

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