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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    There is no such "proof." My comment was in response to a Futurist who was implying that Preterists are just like Harold Camping because Preterists supposedly say that Christ's "second coming" in the first century was "spiritual" and not literal like the Futurists think he predicted.

    Personally, I think both Preterists and Futurists are wrong because the Bible is wrong on this point. Jesus clearly expected a world transforming event every bit as literal as the Rapture, physical resurrection, and world-wide earthquake predicted by Harold Camping. Both Jesus and Harold Camping have been proven wrong. They are two peas in an apocalyptic pod.

    Ram, Did I understand that you are saying Jesus had sh** for brains by linking him with a man you said had sh** for brains? Chas
    Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Wade View Post
    Ram, Did I understand that you are saying Jesus had sh** for brains by linking him with a man you said had sh** for brains? Chas
    Nah ... I didn't say that. But you are the second person to make that connection so I guess I need to elaborate.

    We don't really know what Jesus believed, but let us suppose the Bible gives an accurate report. Then it appears that Jesus believed that the "world" was going to end in the first century and there would be a physical resurrection and all things would be transformed so that the "kingdom of heaven" would be manifest on earth with the 12 disciples ruling over the 12 tribes. We know this because he said all sorts of things like "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" (Matt 16:28). Therefore, Jesus was wrong, just like Harold Camping. But Jesus did not have "shit-for-brains" like Harold Camping because he did not make up an absurd excuse by saying that all his predictions came true in every way except they didn't really happen.

    Do you see the difference?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
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  3. #13
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    This short video helps explain my point. Harold Camping is essentially identical to Christians who believe in a literal rapture, antichrist, end of the world, and that Jesus is coming "soon." When you say Jesus is coming "soon" or that we are in the "end times" you are an implicit date-setter.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWFBY...layer_embedded
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Nah ... I didn't say that. But you are the second person to make that connection so I guess I need to elaborate.

    We don't really know what Jesus believed, but let us suppose the Bible gives an accurate report. Then it appears that Jesus believed that the "world" was going to end in the first century and there would be a physical resurrection and all things would be transformed so that the "kingdom of heaven" would be manifest on earth with the 12 disciples ruling over the 12 tribes. We know this because he said all sorts of things like "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" (Matt 16:28). Therefore, Jesus was wrong, just like Harold Camping. But Jesus did not have "shit-for-brains" like Harold Camping because he did not make up an absurd excuse by saying that all his predictions came true in every way except they didn't really happen.

    Do you see the difference?

    Said like that..... now I do think that Jesus had Shit For Brains.....


    or some kind of brain disorder.......
    Brother Les

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    Said like that..... now I do think that Jesus had Shit For Brains.....


    or some kind of brain disorder.......
    Well, a lot of skeptics and atheists might agree with you, but most informed folks would probably say that the conclusion does not necessarily follow for at least two possible reasons: 1) Most modern academic biblical scholars know that the Bible does not accurately record the sayings of Jesus, so we may not have a correct understanding of his apocalyptic views. Indeed, they could have been added wholesale by the later authors of the Gospels, and 2) believing that the world was coming to an apocalyptic crisis in the first century was as common as grass. It is not an indicator of "shit-for-brains" in any way at all.

    As I explained in the previous post, I said that Harold Camping had shit-for-brains because he made up the most ludicrous and obviously absurd excuse for his failed prophecy that could ever be uttered. There is no record of Jesus doing anything like that, so it is foolish for you to say that he had "shit-for-brains."
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  6. #16
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    Was God in Jesus ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    Said like that..... now I do think that Jesus had Shit For Brains.....
    or some kind of brain disorder.......
    Brother Les & Brother Ram. Now I am really curious how a preterist views the many many oneness scriptures that Jesus refers: as to the indwelling of God in Him,You know them all, I am sure... Are you going to reduce Yeshua the Jesus of the Bible to less than a prophet as RAM has ? That{Jesus} doesn't know what he is talking about?
    Some folks would call this blasphemy,as God dwelled in Jesus. I truly need to look up that definition. So Brother Ram & brother les: What say the brethren? H I & wait on your answers.
    Thx for the action....chas
    Last edited by Charles Wade; 05-24-2011 at 09:28 PM.
    Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Wade View Post
    Are you going to reduce Yeshua the Jesus of the Bible to less than a prophet as RAM has ?
    That's an invalid statement because it assumes that there have been prophets. If there have never been any legitimate prophets of God, then Christ could not be "less" than them.

    I don't have any real knowledge of who or what Jesus was. If the Biblical record accurately reports what he said, then the most logical conclusion is that he was wrong about his prediction that the world would end and the kingdom of Heaven would manifest on earth in the first century. This is the position held by the exceedingly famous Christian author C. S. Lewis. So if you are going to attack anyone as some sort of monstrous heretic for stating something so obvious, you would do well to expend you energies are that illustrious target rather than on a small fry like me. Thanks!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    That's an invalid statement because it assumes that there have been prophets. If there have never been any legitimate prophets of God, then Christ could not be "less" than them.

    I don't have any real knowledge of who or what Jesus was. If the Biblical record accurately reports what he said, then the most logical conclusion is that he was wrong about his prediction that the world would end and the kingdom of Heaven would manifest on earth in the first century. This is the position held by the exceedingly famous Christian author C. S. Lewis. So if you are going to attack anyone as some sort of monstrous heretic for stating something so obvious, you would do well to expend you energies are that illustrious target rather than on a small fry like me. Thanks!
    Thank you Ram for the answer.I have one more question.
    Your wheel looks to complex to study for my shallowness.
    Would you explain to me what this wheel is suppose to prove about the 66 books of the Bible . Thx again chas.
    Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Wade View Post
    Thank you Ram for the answer.I have one more question.
    Your wheel looks to complex to study for my shallowness.
    Would you explain to me what this wheel is suppose to prove about the 66 books of the Bible . Thx again chas.
    I'm always astounded when folks say the wheel is "too complex" - especially after they make claims about exceedingly obscure topics like "evidence of the giants mentioned in the bible, space travel, advanced mathematics, and advanced knowledge of the stars" as you did in this recent post. So you are happy to talk about "advanced mathematics" in ancient societies, but you can't understand the Bible represented as a simple circular matrix?

    I would be happy to "explain" it to you, but I have no idea where to start. What is it that you don't understand? Have you read the introductory material?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I'm always astounded when folks say the wheel is "too complex" - especially after they make claims about exceedingly obscure topics like "evidence of the giants mentioned in the bible, space travel, advanced mathematics, and advanced knowledge of the stars" as you did in this recent post. So you are happy to talk about "advanced mathematics" in ancient societies, but you can't understand the Bible represented as a simple circular matrix?

    I would be happy to "explain" it to you, but I have no idea where to start. What is it that you don't understand? Have you read the introductory material?


    Well, Ram I can verily add so math isn't my long suit, and I can identify the north star and the big and little dipper, so I that is not a strong suit, and what I know about Ancient societies is what I have read in Stichin's book...As far as space travel, I have smoke weed before, But I have studied extensively the Giants in the Bible and entertained the Serpent seed theory.

    So, maybe you overlooked my question, or I didn't find the answer in your very elaborate post Senior .... I have noticed that your writing skills far exceed your reading comprehension.
    .... Please go back to the question if you can find it...thx Chas.
    Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:

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