The Coming of Christ

[Didymus]

Well gentlemen I have realized the tremendous separation of thoughts that occur between Futurist & Preterits. I read your link Didymus and understand what you wrote. I also understand the futility of this argument. You have answered nothing, sent me to a link telling me that I have to accept another one of your views to get an answer.
I wish you the best, but this is a futile argument, so I kindly thank you for the well intention help.But to answer your question as to where God promised that all will come to repentance? Instead of me leaving you a link, just Google universalism. You read right through one in the verse you used.
In His Love, Chas.

I do not expect those not in the spirit to understand what I wrote. Some in flesh might figure it out through intelligence, but then reject it.

The key is in I Corinthians 15.50 which states that "... flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God..." This means that the kingdom of God is 100%, completely and totally spiritual. There are no physical doors, no physical streets pave with gold, no physical rituals by which we can enter. If Christ came in this spiritual kingdom, those still in the flesh would not see it.

I don't believe it is a futile argument at all as it is based on truth.

I have already looked into universalism. I have no urge to do it again. It is plain, even in the flesh, that it is false. Not all men have come to repentance, because narrow is the way and few there be that find it.

[TheForgiven]

Here is something for my futurist friends to consider. Some hold that the Kingdom of God is yet to come. Some also state that there's a difference between the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of Heaven. But they are the very same thing, for God is of Heaven.

Now, if we are awaiting a kingdom to be received, then how do you explain this simple little passage?

Luke 18:

15 Then they also brought infants to Him that He might touch them; but when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called them to Him and said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. 17 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

How can a child receive a kingdom that has not yet come? Yet here is Christ telling the Apostles not to forbid children from entering into the Kingdom of God. For He says,m "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God."

When we were first saved, we entered the Kingdom of God as a child; a reborn child of God. And having received the gift of the Holy Spirit, we like newborn babies, were fed by the milk of God's word. Thus we who have been reborn, enter into the Kingdom of God.

Now as I've stated, some will try to separate this as though the kingdom of Christ, heaven, or God are three separate kingdoms. But that's just plain foolish. For Christ is of God, and God is of heaven; thus the same kingdom is ruled by the one true God, who sits in heaven upon His throne of judgment and grace. Thus we who abide on their earth are born into God's kingdom. And we who depart this earth, and found in Christ, are in God's kingdom of eternity, in the heavens.

The kingdom of God a future kingdom to await? Not according to scripture.

Now for those who want to say that the kingdom of God is our rebirth within the Church (and they would be correct), but that the Kingdom of Heaven is a future thing? Then they must also explain this passage:

Matthew 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.

As you can see, the Kingdom of Heaven existed even before Christ, in the establishment of the first Covenant. The New Covenant would be the fulfillment of all that had been written under the Old Covenant, thus eternally establishing the Kingdom of Heaven, which is of God and of Christ.

As I've just shown, they are all the same kingdom; there is no separation or distinction. Those who try to distinguish the phrases, "Kingdom of God/Heaven/Christ", are doing so to their own error and shame.

Oh, and to prove to my Futurists who try to distinguish the Kingdom of God to the Kingdom of Heaven, as though they were two separate things, let us consider Matthew's quote of children coming to Christ and compare this to Luke 18:

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” 15 And He laid His hands on them and departed from there.

Wow! Same event but Luke uses the phrase "Kingdom of God", while Matthew uses the phrase "Kingdom of Heaven". As I have indicated, they are the very same thing.

Joe

[Didymus]

See my refutations in Red:

Show me the proof...AD 70!

The proof is in the statement, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days." Those days being spoken of are the days of tribulation that Christ had explained in Matthew 24. It is plain that the tribulation was local to Judea, and specifically Jerusalem. Once the temple was destroyed, the end had come. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the importance of the temple. When the temple was destroyed, physical Israel came to an end. The physical body was dead, all that was left of Israel was the resurrected spiritual Israel in Christ.

[TheForgiven]

The proof is in the statement, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days." Those days being spoken of are the days of tribulation that Christ had explained in Matthew 24. It is plain that the tribulation was local to Judea, and specifically Jerusalem. Once the temple was destroyed, the end had come. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the importance of the temple. When the temple was destroyed, physical Israel came to an end. The physical body was dead, all that was left of Israel was the resurrected spiritual Israel in Christ.

Amen brother! Amen! God's word continues to win again.

Joe

[Didymus]

Greetings Didymus,

I think you summed it up pretty well using those passages, but I don't expect some will every come to that same conclusion no matter how well one lays out scriptures. I fine some still holding on to the rapture idea.

You're right, of course. But where did the idea of a rapture come from anyway? Didn't it come from a little girl's dream that made its way into the Schofield Bible?

[Beck]

The proof is in the statement, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days." Those days being spoken of are the days of tribulation that Christ had explained in Matthew 24. It is plain that the tribulation was local to Judea, and specifically Jerusalem. Once the temple was destroyed, the end had come. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the importance of the temple. When the temple was destroyed, physical Israel came to an end. The physical body was dead, all that was left of Israel was the resurrected spiritual Israel in Christ.

Wow, Brother it's great to have you on board, and great explaination.

[Beck]

You're right, of course. But where did the idea of a rapture come from anyway? Didn't it come from a little girl's dream that made its way into the Schofield Bible?

Something like that, I'm not sure of it origin. It has been around for sometime. Most of the people that believe fine it hard to let go becasue that would make what they believed for so long false.

[Charles Wade]

I do not expect those not in the spirit to understand what I wrote. Some in flesh might figure it out through intelligence, but then reject it.

The key is in I Corinthians 15.50 which states that "... flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God..." This means that the kingdom of God is 100%, completely and totally spiritual. There are no physical doors, no physical streets pave with gold, no physical rituals by which we can enter. If Christ came in this spiritual kingdom, those still in the flesh would not see it.

I don't believe it is a futile argument at all as it is based on truth.

I have already looked into universalism. I have no urge to do it again. It is plain, even in the flesh, that it is false. Not all men have come to repentance, because narrow is the way and few there be that find it.

I will pass on the dark spirits that guide you Didmus....I

[CWH]

Originally Posted by Didymus
The proof is in the statement, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days." Those days being spoken of are the days of tribulation that Christ had explained in Matthew 24. It is plain that the tribulation was local to Judea, and specifically Jerusalem. Once the temple was destroyed, the end had come. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the importance of the temple. When the temple was destroyed, physical Israel came to an end. The physical body was dead, all that was left of Israel was the resurrected spiritual Israel in Christ.

Wow, Brother it's great to have you on board, and great explaination.

What proof is that? Where is the proof of AD 70?.... Was the tribulation claimed by preterists to be the killing of more than a million Jews before or during or after the destruction of the Temple in Ad 70? If Jesus said that the tribulation was "Immediately after the tribulation of those days." then the killing of a million Jews should happened after the Temple was destroyed but this is not what Josephus mentioned. There were many other tribulations after AD 70.....the Bar Kochba revolt, the Crusades, the Muslim Invasion, the Ottoman invasion....

Many Blessings.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Well gentlemen I have realized the tremendous separation of thoughts that occur between Futurist & Preterits. I read your link Didymus and understand what you wrote. I also understand the futility of this argument. You have answered nothing, sent me to a link telling me that I have to accept another one of your views to get an answer.
I wish you the best, but this is a futile argument, so I kindly thank you for the well intention help.But to answer your question as to where God promised that all will come to repentance? Instead of me leaving you a link, just Google universalism. You read right through one in the verse you used.
In His Love, Chas.

Charles,
You've been a positive addition to the forum. It's even shown in your disagreements.

Especially concerning 2 Peter 3; I'd encourage you towards an open mind to be taught by the Spirit for yourself. How was the original audience of individuals suffering under the oppression and rejection of the Pharisees, High Priests and scribes to understand.