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Hello Dutchman!Originally Posted by dutchman
No, this is not a repost. Thanks for posting it! I was thinking of posting it myself. This got so widespread that it almost became truth through so much repetition. It is one of those things that get life on their own. That little text is found in many Christian web pages and in this very moment is being forwarded to countless mailboxes around the planet in many languages. As RAM said, it "has been floating around the internet for some years now."
People actually just forward it without doing the counting themselves. The central chapter is Psalm 117, not 118, which is a small error. But the major mistake is stating that Psalm 118:8 is the central Bible verse. I really don't know where they got that from.
As you can see, the central Bible chapter is also the smallest. I cannot overstate the significance of this. Too bad people don't realize this fact or its implications. You can see by this thread that Psalms 118 and 119, though not in the exact center, are in the approximate middle and have close "central" teachings. The significance of Psalm 119 is introduced on chapter one of the Bible Wheel book.
As for the central verses, the real count is, as Richard states, Psalm 103:1,2. There is a deep correlation between Psalm 103:1,2 and Psalm 117:1,2 that is easy to notice by plainly reading them.
Victor
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10-21-2007, 12:35 PM #21
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Hi Dutchman, Originally Posted by dutchman
Welcome to our Forum!
I very much appreciate your comments, but unfortunately the facts are not exactly correct. It appears you got your numbers from the erroneous message that has been floating around the internet for some years now. It has even made its way into the famous "Snopes" website where "Urban Legends" are debunked. Here's the link:
http://www.snopes.com/religion/center.asp
And here's a much better page put up by Christians that actually does the count for you:
http://www.prayerfoundation.org/not_...ible_118_8.htm
As shown in that link, the true center of the Bible, in terms of chapters, is Psalm 117, not Psalm 118. Also, there is no central verse because the number of verses is even. But there is a central pair of verses. There are 31,102 verses in the Bible, so the central pair is made up of verses numbered 15551 and 15552. You can view them using my Gematria Database (click the links). It is interesting that these verses are the first two verses of Psalm 103:1-2:
Psalm 103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
I was wondering how the "urban legend" got started, since Psalm 103:1 is a long ways away from Psalm 118:8. In the link above, it is asserted that the King James Bible has 31,174 verses and that the central pair of verse is then Psalm 118:8 and Psalm 118:9. But that's wrong on two counts. First, we know that the KJV has exactly 31,102 verses, and second, even if it did have 31,174 verses, the central pair would then be the verses numbered 15587 and 15588, which are Psalm 104:14 and Psalm 104:15 - unless the additional verses are found before the center, in which case the count would be off.
So how did they get a number 31,174? How could someone make such a big mistake? I couldn't find the source, but it seems like they added together the number of verses in the Old Testament (as counted by the Jews) and added that to the number of verses in the New Testament of the KJV. According to my database, the totals are:
23,213 verses in the Jewish Old Testament
7597 verses in the NT of the KJV
31,170 total.
That's close, but off by four verses. Looking around the net, I found variations around this number, but I haven't found a reason for them as yet. For example, this site simple says "The Old Testament has 23,214 verses" but doesn't say what version they got that number from. Most Jewish sources say there are 23,206 verses in the Tanakh, and the modern NT often omits a number of verses, such as Acts 8:37, so there is a lot of ambiguity if we expand the discussion beyond just the KJV.
Richard- Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
- Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?
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10-22-2007, 02:10 PM #22
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An urban legend: Psalm 118 as the center
Last edited by Victor; 10-22-2007 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Formatting
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10-23-2007, 07:31 AM #23
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Bless and Praise the Lord: comparing the Bible centers - Psalm 103:1,2 and Psa 117
Psalm 103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:- Central verses of ScripturePsalm 117:1 O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.As reiteratedly shown, the Bible has different "centers" depending on the criterion adopted. The above centers are found when searching within the linear sequence of Bible chapters and verses respectively.
Psalm 117:2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
- Central chapter of Scripture
God's Intelligence designed those central verses with specific purposes in mind - He teaches the central purpose of our existence and presents it in two distinct ways.
It is a very beautiful fact that He managed to produce two pairs of verses as the central passages in the Bible. The number of verses is even, so the center must be a pair of verses. And Psalm 117 "just happens" to have two verses. They both remind us of the meaning of the Number 2, the symbol of division. They divide the Bible in two halves in two distinct ways - chapterwise and versewise.
These two pairs of verses also remind of the second Hebrew letter, Bet. Bet means the House, which is a very powerful archetype of duality. The House defines and divides between what is in and what is out. And the In/Out duality is very visible when when compare the content of these paired verses. They both command us to praise and bless the Lord, but in distinct ways.
Psalm 103 says: "Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name." It is a prayer directed inward - it teaches our inner selves, indeed, our heart, to bless the Lord. In a contrasting manner, Psalm 117 says: "Praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people." This prayer goes outward - it is directed to the whole world. We should teach everyone to praise the Lord.
Psalm 103:1,2 and Psalm 117:1,2 are both similar and distinct - they teach us to bless and praise the Lord with our individual souls and with all the people in the world.
May I bless the Lord with all my heart and may everyone praise Him for His merciful kindness! Amen and amen!
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10-24-2007, 09:11 PM #24
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Hey Victor, Originally Posted by Victor
I finally figured out what you meant by the "shoe-knocking-off correlation." We have been talking about the Number 34 = B'Lev = "In the Heart" and its relation to the 1189 chapters of the Bible:
1189 = 2 x T(34) - 1
I finally noticed that the Number 34 is the second in the two numbers 33 and 34 that are found in the center of the 66 Books of the Bible! These correspond, of course, to the two central verses found in the heart of the heart of Lamentations. Here's what you wrote:
For folks who don't remember, here is how you defined the "heart of the heart of Scripture" here it is again (from the first post in this thread): Originally Posted by Victor
So I took a closer look at the heart of the heart of the heart of Scripture, that is, Lamentations 3:33, and found this: Originally Posted by Victor
Lamentations 3:33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.
The word translated as "willingly" is the Hebrew מלבו (millibo) which literally means "from His heart"!
Is that not an utterly perfect message to be found hidden in the heart of the heart of the heart of the heart of Scripture? The affliction we receive from our Loving God is for our good and He suffers with us ... it is not "from His heart" - which we know to be LOVE, for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Amen!
Thanks Victor! Your insights led to more of God's Treasure.
Richard- Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
- Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?
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10-24-2007, 09:53 PM #25
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I just noticed that the word "millibo" (from His heart, meaning God's Heart), is the central word of Lamentations 3:33! And that verse has exactly seven words, just like the seven canonical divisions from whence we began!
Thus we see that the word meaning "from His heart" isin the heart of the seven words of Lamentations 3:33 which isRemember, the word "millibo" (from His heart) is speaking specifically of God's Heart, and it is found in the heart of the heart of the heart of heart of the heart of Holy Scripture! I believe this testifies to the essence of the whole Bible - it is God-breathed from His very Heart!in the heart of Lamentations 3 which isin the heart of Lamentations which isin the heart of the Major Prophets which isin the heart of the seven canonical divsions of the Holy Bible!
Richard- Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
- Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?
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11-09-2007, 05:12 PM #26Serenity Grace Guest
The Heart and Sound of Him
Hello Family in Christ, May His peace be with you...
I am reading through this, and I can see the Lord moving through, can see the hitting of the mark and not quite there yet of it as well.
The heart of the Gospel, as within the old testament, is the preparation of the heart of Man, that is also John the Baptist and the preparing the way, and before He moves He prepares His way, before a big move of Him comes through and then flows forth and through.
At present, I can feel His urgency, and the wanting to burst forth and not being able to quite burst forth.
All these posts and all these signs and numbers coming forth mean something. 34 when Joined together, is a seven number which is the number of God. It is also the number of the trinity but also the number of His structre and the Holy Temple. It is also the number that He flows forth and gives to His witness, that they go from being three fold and God being viewed outside, to God being in the midst. From Jehovah through to Emmanuelle.
Three is the sign of the trinity, but it is also the sign of the earth's witness and heaven's witness. you can see this in 1 John 5:7-8. This is God's witness He gives to His people, and it is that witness which is greater.
"If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which He hath testified of His Son." 1 John 5:9
It is this witness that comes through John 14, and the focus verses for this chapter, is also the basis and foudation of our ministery and also the name of our ministeries...Homeheart...out of the heart comes all things, comes forth the issues of life...that heart is Christ's home, is a pure heart in this midst of our pure home, which is God's life and our home within His Heart and Soul. The mind also is within the heart, for out of the heart also come forth the thoughts of man. Out of the heart also comes forth His treasure and what he has been focusing on, for what we focus on, what we set our eyes upon, that is where our treasure lies, within this earth or within heaven. It is the finding of the treasure within the field and selling all to have that treasure.
"At that day ye shall know I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him and will manifest myself to him." John 14:20-1
If people don't have that they do not have the centre of Christ, nor the centre of the living word of God. They also don't have the oneness of God and this is nothing we do of ourselves, but everything He surrenders us to and brings and does within us...
And when we first was given this along with the vision He gave to us...it came with a picture and sign for our ministery and it is a house within a heart and a heart within a house...and we started out with...Our home is in His heart and our Heart is in His home. His heart is in our home and our home is in His heart, and going forth through to His eternal love is in our home and our home is in His eternal love.
This is the premise and the center of God, from going from God being the three fold witness that is one, but we are outside, to God, bringing forth His one into the three fold, that there is a marrying and joining of the one with the two witnesses and we then go from the three fold of God, to the four fold, it is Him adding to His body which is His church which He is married to, the nucleous and Centre of God. It is the two, three and four fold of Him, that brings forth unity and multiplication and reconciles all the divisions and the gaps. But this also brings forth the marriage of the Lamb unto His wife, His New Jerusalem.
The trinity is also in the old testament it is Genesis 18 Lord Jesus Christ visting and communing with Abraham and Sarah.
The centre of the heart of Christ and the centre of His Cross, is the centre of Christ and what was in His heart and was upon His mind and deep within His centre and that is John 17, just before He died.
Also the two triangles joining together, is what Lord Jesus Christ is doing now. It is the sign and time of the hour glass, which is also the number 8 and it is the number of our new life in His eternal Grace, in this 9 year which is the 2, 3, 4 of Him being reconciled in His completion which is also the year of His atonement, which brings forth Jubilee. This hourglass is the sign of not only the merging church, but it is also the sign of two of the petals of His flower, but also the sections of His windmill touching and meeting at His centre, and Him completing that to make a flower which is what this year means, which is also a nine number, completion. These two triangles, points are merging, it is part of the sign of the St John Cross, the Red Cross, the Cross of blood, healing and the fellowship that this pertains to, that all may be one, that they may be one in Christ and but also that we will be one with each other which also relates to psalm 133 and it will greatly impact upon England, and the nations, but also on the Uniting church and the Red Cross organisation. the Body of Christ, His remnant and everyone. Which is the Prophetic effecting mind and thought, along with heart and soul, that will lead people to move in the direction but also surrender to the work of His hands.
Within the next two years, those points will pass through each other and will come to rest to form His star, the star of David, which is the sign and ensign of Israel, which is in the centre of His Chosen nations, His commonwealth of Israel...but also it is the morning star of David...which is Lord Jesus Christ and it will bring about His occurence of surety but also will bear wonderful fruit....
"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts.
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:19-21
"And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun, For the LOrd God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
I Jesus hath sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." Rev 22:5,16
And as for the sound that comes forth out of His heart, now I understand why He has brought us into Here, but also bringing forth the sound of the Alephbet with the joining of the sound in His heart, coming forth into the heart, mind and soul of us and our family in Christ. He is the one that harmonises His sounds,and He is the one that harmonises His word through us, that we can all sing together and sing and bring forth His salvation and creations song, His rhythm of life, and His rhythm of sound.
And I also placed what He has given to me, in the general section of this forum, but also know that this is the section that it also belongs in.
May His peace be with you.
Advancing Christ's Kingdom
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His eternal love is in our home and our home is in His eternal love...John 14:20-1Last edited by Serenity Grace; 11-09-2007 at 06:26 PM.
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11-10-2007, 10:02 AM #27
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Hi Serenity Grace, Originally Posted by Serenity Grace
I think that is an excellent insight into 34 ==> 3 + 4 = 7.
You have touched upon many important themes in this post. Your "Homeheart" ministry caught my attention because the Hebrew word for "heart" is spelt Lamed Bet, and that as a word, Bet means "house." The letter Bet also signifies the Number 2, so the Jews read Lev as "two Lameds" and use them to form a heart: Originally Posted by Serenity Grace
In Hebrew grammar, the letter Bet signifies the preposition "in" because a "house" is a symbol of a place to go "in." We see this in the first word of the Bible, Bereshit which means B (In) Reshit (the beginning).
The amazing thing is that Lamed means "to teach" and in grammar it is prefixed to a word to signify the idea of "to" or "for." It is the "pointing" letter. Thus we can analyse the word for "heart" to mean Lamed (To or towards) Bet (house or inward). Thus, the Hebrew word for heart "points" to that which is inward which is indeed the meaning of the word.
That was stated most wonderfully! Originally Posted by Serenity Grace
Thanks SG!
I agree completely. And not only that, but their appearance in Genesis 18 correlations with the threefold witness of 1 John 5:7 on Spoke 18 of the Bible Wheel. See my article Three Witnesses for 1 John 5:7. Originally Posted by Serenity Grace
Those are the same thoughts that my wife Rose incorporated in her stained glass heart with a cross made from the hebrew letters that spell Lev (Heart): Originally Posted by Serenity Grace
Thanks for sharing the insights God has showered upon you, Serenty Grace. They are very rich in the things of Christ. Originally Posted by Serenity Grace
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- Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?
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11-10-2007, 12:20 PM #28Serenity Grace Guest
Blessings in Lord Jesus Christ and His witness
Hello Richard,
Thankyou for the picture of the creative works coming forth through your wife, they are beautiful. Four years ago Lord Jesus Christ took away all my jewellery,because my son and I entered into His spiritual fast. What people are going through now we went through then, two years ago, He gave me back the Jewellery and pointed me in the direction of Kingdom jewellery. Pointed us to a local jeweller tha works out of a post office in one of the towns, she started making our jewellery. We also started sharing with her what He was sharing with us, and this town was also in drought, had no rain for a year. They ended up getting the precious rain that they needed, everytime we went over, it was not only physically dry, but also spiritually. And it was also near, where the four winds meet in our nation. Today we are going there for rememberance day, His breathing into the minute silence our nation will follow to day. It is the breathing into dry and dead bones, including the dead letter. He is breathing life back into the Hebrew language, His Spirit, because of spiritual dryness in heart, mind and soul.
As with lamed bet, thankyou for sharing, and it is about being in the heart, being in the house, which is His home and what He turned our home into. But it is also where we have the intimacy with our Lord, coming through the heart into the house, the home, which is the family we have and we are blessed by. Within this picture, also comes with the message, but what He is doing prophetically to people's hearts. Going right through the centre through the north, which is the mind, the northern side to the temple, which is also the altar of God and the prophetic ministery that comes out of there along with the star. It is also His hope going through to the heart deep into His love, which will bring forth the joy of the Lord which is beyond wisdom. This is also the time that He is about to send forth His arrows of love that will go right into the heart and hit the mark, right on target right on time. It is His precision timing.
That this piece of jewellery is in silver, will effect those that have been like reprobate silver, their stubble will be burnt away in the heat of His enflamed heart, a heart that is on fire for Him. This is where the furnace of afflictions comes through...and where He tries those that are silver as Gold, and where He chooses us...It is His refining fire.
"Behold I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction. For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. Hearken unto me, O Jacob, O Israel, my called; I am He; I am the first, I also am the last." Isaiah 48:10-12
And people when they read this, they can see and if they are in His heart, you can not read this without reading and feeling the sorrow, the cry, the anguish in His heart for His people. What this also means is not just a spiritual fire it also means there is a physical fire. My son and I went through ours in 2005, we had three fires that year. The first fire blackened and burnt our laundry, the second fire burnt our house down and we lost virtually everything material of which we are still recovering from, and the last fire, was the burning of our bread through doing communion. The first two fires occured on Feb 9, 16th which is the double ash wednesday we went through that year, the last fire happened on one of the pentecosts we had that year. We became the sanctuary that was ruined and joined in Israel, Zion for their ruined temple, which also effected Zion a year later...
"Our Holy and our beauiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned up with fire: and all our pleasant things are laid waste." Is 64:11
One thing we did truly see in all this, the truth and state of earth's chrisianity and our neighbours, we were not insured. OUr house still lies in ruins, and it can still not be cleared away as yet, and we are going to be rejoicing when it can.
Getting back to the heart, and rose, rose is the rose of sharon, that He also had us going in and doing clearing work in one of the towns, Warwick in Queensland, but also another went in there as well, it is the town of the rose, they have roses everywhere. It is also the Rose of Sharon prophetic minsitery and anointing for His women,and at the time, we were also reaching out to Sharon, who had an amazing anointing, but her gifting was not being uterlised by the church and family as it could have and should have been. He brought her into His Kingdom ministery, she ended up marrying Him in the earth's witness, and she started sharing her faith as she was going about her life, and in one day, four women were turned back to Him and remembering their faith. He also brought her into His flower ministery, which is also the ministery of His blessings.
Thankyou for the other picture it is a beautiful picture of a redeemed heart, and the centre cross are the four arrow heads that meet in the middle, these are not just the beams of the cross, these are also the four angels that meet in the centre of the Cross, the centre of Jesus's heart, is His Soul, which is Christ, the Holy Ghost, the anointed Living Soul of God. It is also the four heads, points touching the spot in the centre this is the spot, the dot that gets everything going and happening. This is also the four ministeries meeting in the centre of the First, which is the Apostolic which came out and comes out of Israel.
And as for the teaching part of the heart and home, in the first century but also in Israel, they saw the important part about the home and family as a place of learning along with living. In the centre of the home the main role and source for the teaching and learning for the children, and family values, and guidance, came through the mother, while the husband father is working. When she is one in and with her Husband and they are as they were meant to be, she is her husband's helper and companion. She is the guidance within the home, while the Husband is the leader. There is the leading from in front and the guiding from the back all steering down the river of life we all are required to live in this world and life in Him.
Paul told the women, that if they have questions they should be asking their husbands, the wife is meant to be taught by the husband. In the Body of Christ, the husband and father of us all, is Lord Jesus Christ, and the home, the church, the body is His wife which is also His home and where He resides and grows His vine, in His Beloved's Garden. Glad you are recognising Our Heavenly Teacher in our midst and yes He brought us into His teaching ministery. I also understand we don't teach, nor can we ever, we just present the information as He leads, or show by experience and example and then He is the one that brings forth learning. True learning happens at a moment of realisation and revelation, which brings forth understanding and inspires people into the doing and surrendering part. And this is going to be an important part of our ministery of which we are sill in process, we are going to be having a farm, in a place called Eden. It is a living ministery, people will be able to come and stay with us. It will also have a river, for baptisms etc...and our minsitery goes 24/7.
Also am glad that you recognise Lord Jesus Christ's treasures of His Glorious Grace in the midst. The other day while we were driving through the forest, and our communication came to me, He opened up His vault between us, He told me He was going to be doing this the night before, opening up His vault, and He did, that vault is very deep. He also has heard your prayers and is answering them.
As for the two, we are the two part of the where two or more are gathered that is where I will be in the midst. Most people forget about the beauty of the two. They go for the multitude but for us, we love the intimacy of the little and when He uses us to touch the multitude then that is alright too. My son is the other part of HomeHeart Ministeries, he is the one that will take over from me and I can retire and write books. Which is what He said I would be doing, writing books for Him and I look forward to that day. My son is 15 at the moment and this is what He is wanting to do, and has wanted to do since He was 11, to do His ministery.
And that is right about the three witnesses relating to 1 John 5:7 which relates to also John 14, and is in Revelation as well. It made me laugh about Spoke 18 being Job, Matthew and 1 John which also relates to what we have lived and what He has done and is doing in our lives, but also in our family's life...It is the Going into the ruined, into the blessed, into God's family and family Tree, and partaking of His eternal life, which is the tree of life that is Rev 22 that is beside the river of life, which is His virtuous wife and this is what we are also bringing forth this year, in our year of attonement, which is going from two into one completely forever. Praise Lord Jesus Christ, amen.
Advancing Christ's Kingdom
Mother Serenity Grace
Homeheart Ministeries
His eternal love is in our home and our home is in His eternal love...John 14:20-1Last edited by Serenity Grace; 11-10-2007 at 12:28 PM.
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11-20-2007, 10:34 AM #29
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Heart in Lamentations 3
Hi guys!
I have checked and counted the occurences of the actual words "heart" and "midst" in Lamentations chapter 3
I counted "heart" 4 times (of 10 occurences in the book) and "midst" 1 time (of 4 occurences)
So this word is wonderfully engraved in the Heart of the Heart itself.
Agape,
Michael"Let both sides explore what believes unite us instead of belabouring those believes which divide us." J.F.K 1961
"The undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus Christ be with the holy ones. Amen" Rev. 22:21
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11-20-2007, 11:21 AM #30
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Hey there Michael, Originally Posted by rota
Thanks for the interesting post! Its great to have another brother who sees the hand of God in the design of His Word.
I am guessing you are talking about the underlying Hebrew because in the KJV the word heart only occurs three times in Lamentations 3:
- Lam 3:41 Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens.
- Lam 3:51 Mine eye affecteth mine heart because of all the daughters of my city.
- Lam 3:65 Give them sorrow of heart, thy curse unto them.
Searching the entire chapter of Lamentations 3 for all verses containing either LB or LBB yields four verses:
- Lam 3:21 This I recall to my mind (LB), therefore have I hope
- Lam 3:33 For he doth not afflict willingly (LB) nor grieve the children of men.
- Lam 3:41 Let us lift up our heart (LBB) with our hands unto God in the heavens
- Lam 3:65 Give them sorrow of heart (LB), thy curse unto them.
When you say that "this word is wonderfully engraved in the Heart of the Heart itself" I am guessing you mean the connection between the value LBB = 34 and the 4 occurrences in chapter 3? Why is the single occurrence of "midst" significant?
Richard- Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
- Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?
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