Daniel's little horn another look.

[Beck]

I question, why is it that the bear and the leopard isn't used in Daniel 8 but the ram and he-goat instead? Why did the vision switch from wild animals to the ram and he-goat?

I think I read some where that many scholars believe there was a time difference between Daniel 7 and chapter 8. The indication is in verse 1 of this second vision. It seem that the differents lays in that Daniel still didn't understand the vision, so this second vision was given with more detail.

The Ram battered its way in conquest symbolic of how Medo Perisa conquest from westward, nothward and southward give a most powerful blow. The He Goat with the unequal horn he had an unnatural outgrowth between his eyes, a most dangerous weapon for an animal that butts with its head. Added to this is the speed with which he skims over the earth. In his mad fury he smites the ram and breaks his horns; he cast him down and tramps upon the once all-powerful, but now helpless and deserted ram.

Why these are used I guess would be to help Daniel understand the meaning maybe he could relate better with these animals that then wild ones.

[gilgal]

I think I read some where that many scholars believe there was a time difference between and chapter 8. The indication is in verse 1 of this second vision. It seem that the differents lays in that Daniel still didn't understand the vision, so this second vision was given with more detail.

The Ram battered its way in conquest symbolic of how Medo Perisa conquest from westward, nothward and southward give a most powerful blow. The He Goat with the unequal horn he had an unnatural outgrowth between his eyes, a most dangerous weapon for an animal that butts with its head. Added to this is the speed with which he skims over the earth. In his mad fury he smites the ram and breaks his horns; he cast him down and tramps upon the once all-powerful, but now helpless and deserted ram.

Why these are used I guess would be to help Daniel understand the meaning maybe he could relate better with these animals that then wild ones.

The 4 heads of the leopard are the 4 horns of the he-goat. The 4 wings of the leopard and the speediness that the he-goats feet don't touch the ground are similar. But I don't understand why in one vision the 4 heads are the other vision's 4 horns? After all within the first vision's 4th beast it shows that there were 10 horns plus an 11th coming out.

[Beck]

The 4 heads of the leopard are the 4 horns of the he-goat. The 4 wings of the leopard and the speediness that the he-goats feet don't touch the ground are similar. But I don't understand why in one vision the 4 heads are the other vision's 4 horns? After all within the first vision's 4th beast it shows that there were 10 horns plus an 11th coming out.

My thought is that of the leopard having four wings and four heads is given the least among of information, but revealing the beast. On the other hand Daniel seem confused and didn't understand and was much troubled about the vision. It seem he wanted to know more about the the four beast, so the one standing by Daniel told him these are four kings which shall arise upon the earth. Then Daniel again asked for more so that he could understand about the fourth beast and the ten horns and even that little horn. Chapter 7:23-28 is the interperation given to Daniel.

Then around three years later Daniel had a vision of a ram and he goat. This vision is also given to him as understanding by Gabriel. Notice when Gabriel gives the interperation of the he goat that it's great horn being broken four stood up for it. 'four kingdoms'. He makes no mention of four horns as to the kings, but four kingdoms from that nation. Neither does he give it in relationship to the king at the latter times of their kingdom. We acknowlege that the king related to here is Antiochus IV and is given to as the little horn of pervious verses in chapter 8 concerning the he goat. He is the one that desecrated the temple and trodded down the host of heaven.

[gilgal]

My thought is that of the leopard having four wings and four heads is given the least among of information, but revealing the beast. On the other hand Daniel seem confused and didn't understand and was much troubled about the vision. It seem he wanted to know more about the the four beast, so the one standing by Daniel told him these are four kings which shall arise upon the earth. Then Daniel again asked for more so that he could understand about the fourth beast and the ten horns and even that little horn. Chapter 7:23-28 is the interperation given to Daniel.

Then around three years later Daniel had a vision of a ram and he goat. This vision is also given to him as understanding by Gabriel. Notice when Gabriel gives the interperation of the he goat that it's great horn being broken four stood up for it. 'four kingdoms'. He makes no mention of four horns as to the kings, but four kingdoms from that nation. Neither does he give it in relationship to the king at the latter times of their kingdom. We acknowlege that the king related to here is Antiochus IV and is given to as the little horn of pervious verses in chapter 8 concerning the he goat. He is the one that desecrated the temple and trodded down the host of heaven.

It could be that the 4 kingdoms coming out of the he-goat have common elements as the 4 beasts spoken of in Daniel 7. The 4th (or one of the) he-goat kingdom is the Seleucid with Antiochus Epiphanies as the little horn. Also the 4th beast's little horn is similar to Antiochus but a different beast.

The 4th beast's kingdom (Daniel 7) shows the horns believe in survival of the fittest (I think). It's like a Coke and Pepsi competition.

[Beck]

It could be that the 4 kingdoms coming out of the he-goat have common elements as the 4 beasts spoken of in Daniel 7. The 4th (or one of the) he-goat kingdom is the Seleucid with Antiochus Epiphanies as the little horn. Also the 4th beast's little horn is similar to Antiochus but a different beast.

The 4th beast's kingdom (Daniel 7) shows the horns believe in survival of the fittest (I think). It's like a Coke and Pepsi competition.

It seems to me that the vision of chapter 7 revealed four kingdoms with four kings. Now we know that the kingdom of Babylon and Medo Perisa had more that one king to reign over their kingdoms. King Nebuchaddnezzer was the head of gold, the Lion. Likewise Medo Perisa and Greece had more that one king. Alexander the Great was'nt the first king [KJV], but the chief king of the Grecian empire.

So of the four beast kingdoms there is but only one king and the one king of the fourth kingdom is the little horn again we know from chapter 8 whom this is refering too. If Antiochus IV didn't or couldn't have fulfilled what is spoken of the little horn in chapter 7 then I would agree that he could not have possibly be that same horn, but the case is that Antiochus IV fullfilled all of them. So I look at chapters 7 and 8 as parallels as to reiteration of the same vision. Sence the third kingdom Greece was divided into four and Antiochus IV came up some one of these. The notion of 'little' horn is that this king would only have a short time as was given to Antiochus ruling over Judaea.

[gilgal]

It seems to me that the vision of chapter 7 revealed four kingdoms with four kings. Now we know that the kingdom of Babylon and Medo Perisa had more that one king to reign over their kingdoms. King Nebuchaddnezzer was the head of gold, the Lion. Likewise Medo Perisa and Greece had more that one king. Alexander the Great was'nt the first king [KJV], but the chief king of the Grecian empire.

So of the four beast kingdoms there is but only one king and the one king of the fourth kingdom is the little horn again we know from chapter 8 whom this is refering too. If Antiochus IV didn't or couldn't have fulfilled what is spoken of the little horn in chapter 7 then I would agree that he could not have possibly be that same horn, but the case is that Antiochus IV fullfilled all of them. So I look at chapters 7 and 8 as parallels as to reiteration of the same vision. Sence the third kingdom Greece was divided into four and Antiochus IV came up some one of these. The notion of 'little' horn is that this king would only have a short time as was given to Antiochus ruling over Judaea.

Notice that one of the 4 horns, the Selucid kings always fought with the Ptolimaic Kings. So maybe this 11th horn is a dynasty which makes war with 3 other kings or dynasties and defeats them.

I wonder how many countries still have monarchs ruling over them?
England;
Spain;
Netherlands;
Monaco...

Any other?
Most of them have overthrown their kings and made their country a republic.

I read in a book where Prieure de Sion's division in France wanted a United Europe with a monarch over them but the American and British divisions opposed it.

[Beck]

Notice that one of the 4 horns, the Selucid kings always fought with the Ptolimaic Kings. So maybe this 11th horn is a dynasty which makes war with 3 other kings or dynasties and defeats them.

I wonder how many countries still have monarchs ruling over them?
England;
Spain;
Netherlands;
Monaco...

Any other?
Most of them have overthrown their kings and made their country a republic.

I read in a book where Prieure de Sion's division in France wanted a United Europe with a monarch over them but the American and British divisions opposed it.

To me what is depicted in Daniel is the four kingdoms of Babylon, Medo Perisa, Greece and Selecuid [little horn]. It foretold of what was to come 'as to the time of the end' and that was an appointed time. Considering the time given to Antiochus to persecute the saints and desecrated the temple of a given number of days.[time, times and half and 2300 evening and morning].

Now I wanted to study through the book of Daniel first and get a complete thought and picture which I believe to be a picture of the desecration of the temple by Antiochus IV. Then I wanted to move to the book of Revelation because I think we combine this fourth beast to the beast of the sea in Revelation. This I believe in Daniel is different, but it is also an parallel of what was to come. [Type and Antitype] That is how Jesus used that phrase and refering to Daniel that when ye shall see the "abomination which maketh desolate set up" to flee to the mountains. This would be an parallel and foreshadowing what Antiochus IV did to the sanctuary and city, but when Titus came in 70AD the difference is that the sanctuary and city wasn't just defiled, but now destoryed.

So while I see the parallels in Daniel and Revelation to the beast it's not the same in history. It is shown is typology much the same Isaiah 7:14 which foretold of a child from a young woman and his name shall be Emmauel. That is quoted about Jesus, but we know that certain things of Isaiah's prophecy can't be of Jesus, but if we look at this as a type then Jesus fulfills that type.
Here in the book of Daniel and Revelation this is what I see a fulfillment of the type by Antiochus which is later fulfilled by Titus.

[TheForgiven]

In my previous post, I provided information on the Babylonian Empire, and how this relates to the vision seen by Daniel in chapter 7. He pictured four creatures:

1. A lion with 2 wings of an eagle that were torn off, forcing the Lion to walk like a man
2. A bear supporting itself on one side, with 3 ribs in its mouth, in which he was told to devour much flesh
3. A Leopard with four wings of a bird (not an eagle), possessing four heads
4. A terrible beast unlike the first three, very strong with iron teeth, devouring and crushing anything while trampling the remainder with its feet (no mercy). Possessed 10 horns, with a little one that subdues three horns. The little horn is given “eyes like a man” and overpowering the Saints. The “voice” of the beast with the little horn possessing eyes like a man, was given over to the flames, while the remainder of the fourth beast was given a short time.

I explained how the lion, representing a king with complete rule and authority over all creatures, was a metaphorical depiction of the King of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, who was given dominion and control over all creatures, air and ground, sea and earth, and who also lost his place due to a hardened heart in failing to give God the glory and honor. And so he was struck down, and forced to live like a dog on the field, thus fulfilling Isaiah 14:12, the fall of Lucifer (morning star). After his repentance, the king was restored and was given a “human heart”. Each king after Nebuchadnezzar would show compassion for Daniel’s people, thanks to the decrees issued by Nebuchadnezzar, and thus depicts the “eagles wings” being torn off, and forcing the Lion to walk as a man. This showed that Babylon would no longer be the invincible Empire capable of conquering and dividing as fast as it did at the start. But its conversion to God would result in the Babylonian Empire growing stagnant due to its compassion for Daniel’s people. Thus its desire to divide and conquer had declined.

Now we’ll discuss the next vision. Daniel sees a bear supporting itself on one side, and possessing 3 ribs in its mouth.



First, why a bear? A bear is powerful, and more than capable of defending itself. Think about it. You confront a bear, especially in a challenge, the bear will not back down. A bear will stand-up tall to show its power and height, and use its massive claws to attack an opponent, along with its crushing teeth. If you dare to go toe-to-toe with a bear, chances are you'll lose, or else run away in fear. Thus, a bear symbolized brute strength, power, and confidence. One weakness of the bear is its lack of intelligence, which is more than substituded by its brutality, force, and strength.

The kingdom that conquered the Babylonian Empire was a combined kingdom; the Medo-Persian Empire. The kingdom was made up of Medes who lived in the northern part of what is now modern day Iran; the Persians lived in southern Iran. We noted in the vision that the bear was being supported on one side. This vision depicts the fact that this combined kingdom would be dominated by one, and that being the Persians. The Medes initially dominated the Empire, but later as the Persian military grew, the Persians ended up controlling most of the Empire. Thus, this explains why the bear was “raised up on one side”, indicating its unequaled rule and dominion of itself.

We recognize that a bear symbolizes brute strength and power; this is a perfect picture of the very massive and powerful Medo-Persian Empire. Its military was not only brutal, but massive as well, although not necessarily intelligent or experienced. Like the bear which lacks intelligence, relying solely on its strength and power, the Medes-Persians relied solely on numbers; thus their view with regards to the military was the larger, the better. This Empire sought after and dominated kingdoms with shear brutality and intensity, and crushing its victims with its teeth, fulfilling the command to “devour much flesh”. Legend has it that the Medes-Persians would crucify survivors and nail them to trees, walls, or other structures, to remind their enemies of their brutality. In the process of devouring much flesh, the bear possesses three ribs in its teeth. This denotes the successful conquests in creating its Empire by conquering Lydia, Babylonia, and Egypt.

And so, there you have it! The bear which supports itself on one side, and being commanded to devour much flesh, was a picture depicting the rise of the Medo-Persian Empire, with the Persians dominating the over-all kingdom. It was commanded to “devour much flesh”, which results in the bear possessing 3 ribs in its mouth, which represented the kingdoms they would conquer; Lydia, Babylonia, and Egypt.

Although the Medo-Persian Empire would possess the largest military in the "then" inhabited world, nothing would prevent the attacks of the "more intelligent" and fast beast representing a leopard with four heads; THE RISE OF THE GREEKS! The battle that comes to mind is the Spartans.

Our next topic will be the Leopard possessing four heads.

God bless.

Joe

[TheForgiven]

We now come to the 3rd Beast of Daniel chapter 7. I first explained how the Babylonian Empire was depicted by the Lion with two wings of an eagle, of which it lost both of its wings, which forced the lion to walk as a man of compassion. I then explained how the Medo-Persian Empire was depicted by the mighty and powerful bear with one of its side being supported more than the other, and also how this kingdom was commanded to devour much flesh, through which it obtained 3 ribs in its mouth, which foretold of how the Medo-Persian Empire would conquer Lydia, Babylonia, and Egypt. I will next discuss the 3rd Beast from the sea of Daniel’s vision.

This Beast was viewed as a leopard with four wings of a bird, but not that of an eagle.



Let’s think about this for a moment shall we. The first beast was a Lion, which symbolized rule and authority over all the beasts. The next beast was a bear, which symbolize brutality, strength, size, and crushing power. And now we’re informed of a visionary leopard with four heads and four wings. The significance of a leopard is not just its speed, but how it attacks. A leopard is known for pouncing on its victims with speed, agility, and cunningness. A leopard may hide while scoping the field for prey, and as soon as it finds its victim, it quickly chases it down and catches its prey. Leopards are also intelligent, attributing to its already skillful as a predator. Anyone daring to run away from the fangs of a leopard, may find themselves being chased down in a hurry, only finding that running is useless. Turn and fight, and the leopard will sink its sharp teeth into your flesh as it mangles you to shreds with its sharp claws.

Who was the kingdom that rose to power so quickly, with a king who conquered nearly all the main-lands, and as far as to the sea, at such a young age? None other than Alexander the Great, who managed to defeat not only the Medo-Persian Empire, but nearly all the inhabited regions surrounding Greece, and then some!

The Leopard is a picture of Alexander and his kingdom. The four wings of the leopard, from a bird and not an eagle, denote Alexander’s successful conquests in such a short period of time, and with great speed. Alexander managed to conquer all of Asia Minor and most Europe, and some of the coastal territories in about 12 years. No kingdom based on man to date has spread in such a short period of time, thus promoting the legend of Alexander the Great. His success of course could not have happened without Gods help.

Its four heads represent the break-up of Alexander’s kingdom. These were Casander, Lysimachus, Seleucus, and Ptolemy, who continued to rule the Grecian Empire after his death.

In conclusion, we see that the leopard was a vision explaining the Grecian Empire from Alexander the Great, and its four rulers who succeeded the Empire in quadruple fashion, and yet continued to contribute to the success of Greece. But despite the success of the Grecian Empire, nothing would prepare it for its encounter. Like the two kingdoms prior to Greece, there is always someone, or something, stronger, terrifying, fierce, and bone-crushing. The Rise of the most horrific, monstrous, and brutal Empire ever to walk the face of the earth; the might Roman Empire!

Joe

[TheForgiven]

This is my last explanation of Daniel chapter 7. We previously discussed the first three beasts of Daniel. To save time and space on this post, I will not offer a summary of the first three Beasts; please refer to those posts for specific information.
Let us now consider the final Beast in Daniel chapter 7. Daniel writes:

7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.

Out of all the beasts shown to him in chapter 7, this is the one that catches his attention thus far. This Beast was unlike the previous three. No exact description was given contrasting it to the other beasts. Unlike the first three beasts, this was not a natural beast to be beheld; that is, no known animals known to man. This beast is terrible, with iron teeth and strength so powerful that it crushes and devours anything in its path, and even tramples anything left with its feet. This beast shows no mercy at all, with a mission to completely destroy anything in its way. Another feature that captured his attention were the 10 horns; more specifically, a little horn with eyes like a man, that caused three to be subdued before it. This horn was speaking great swelling words against God, and was also given permission to overpower the Saints for 42 months.

Daniel is told that during the days of these 10 horns/kings (NOT KINGDOMS as Futurists erroneously propose) that the God of heaven would set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed. Those who look to the future for another kingdom, I must question their salvation. Anyone knowing the truth, and who also worships God in His Kingdom must know the Church. There is no other kingdom of God to be established, nor will be established, besides the Church. Jesus was born during the days of these kings, and it was Jesus who established His kingdom of righteousness during the days of these kings. Thus, anyone, and I mean anyone, who attempts to divert this truth into a distant or even near 21st century future, are not preaching the truth. And I’ll just leave it at that.

Each kingdom is successive, meaning one conquers the other, beginning with the Babylonian Empire. And in each case, there were no lengthy delays in between succession. This is another reason why I scorn Futurists who attempt to convert the rule of Rome (particularly those of the 7th Day Adventists) from the first century (or prior) to modern day times in the form of the Catholic Church. It is hoped that at the end of this post, a better understanding about the fourth Beast would show the chronological succession of kingdoms who conquered Israel, and also show that the fourth kingdom is not a 2000+ year kingdom which (according to most Futurists) transitioned from ancient Rome, to the Roman Catholic Church, and now into the European Union. This type of absurdity and illogic deserves condemnation as the text in Daniel never suggests a transitional period of the same kingdom, from one form into the next; especially considering that Rome today is nowhere near the likeness of ancient Rome and its Caesars; all thanks to the kingdom of God which gained victory over Rome; and not only Rome, but all (or most) nations who have at one time knew God.

Now getting back to the fourth Beast and its horns. What do we know about the little horn? Only what was stated above; it came about after the first 10 kings, and was responsible for subduing three kings. Here are the “generally accepted” list of kings of Rome in order. My normal position has generally been:

1. Augustus
2. Tiberius
3. Claudius
4. Caligula
5. Nero
6. Galba
7. Otho
8. Vitelius
9. Vespasian
10. Titus
11. Domitian

In this interpretation, Vespasian in the intended horn that caused the three kings prior to him, to be subdued. Vespasian is believed to be the one who “over-powers” the Jews during the final half of the Roman/Jewish war. But lately, I’ve taken note of a major problem with this view. First, let’s read Daniel 7 to learn more about this horn.

21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

This doesn’t appear to fit Vespasian at all. For it is clear that Vespasian did not attack the “Saints”, but false Jews. The “Saints” are those who are elected by God; that is, the remnant of Daniel’s people who were chosen by God as those worthy of salvation. The false Jews were not spared; we know that they were destroyed and did not “possess the kingdom” as verse 22 states. So Vespasian, according to the text, does not qualify as the “little horn” who overcomes the Saints, and who loses a kingdom to the Saints. Hmmm? Let’s continue.

So now we have a problem. But do we? Is there a king who came to power by the deaths of three prior kings? My friends, I’ve admitted my errors in the past, and I will admit that I’ve been in error with the 10 horns. My position still logically maintains a first century fulfillment of Daniel’s fourth Beast, and its 10 kings representing the Emperors of Rome. And so, if the 11th horn is not Vespasian, which clearly at this point does not fit the criteria according to verses 21-22, then who qualifies to fill the position of the little horn? We need to first recover the attributes of the little horn. These are:

1. A Roman first century king who over-powers the Saints
2. A Roman first century king who came into power after the first 10 horns, and who was responsible for subduing three prior kings being “uprooted”
3. A first century king who lost his dominion that was given to the Saints
4. A first century king who spoke against the God of heaven

Who fits the category for these attributes?

It’s possible that Nero Caesar may have been the intended “little horn”, as some have been inclined to believe (as I also once did). Nero did overpower the Saints. Nero did persecuted the Saints for 42 months. Nero did lose his dominion, but not to the Church. Nero did declare himself to be divine or a god. But there’s one major problem. He was not responsible for three kings prior to him being subdued. It is true that he came into power by the assassinations of Claudius and Caligula. But that’s only two kings, and not three. Some speculate the Tiberius (Emperor prior to Caligula) was taken out by his family, but a total lack of proof writes this idea as nothing more than a fable. Tiberius died of old age, and died a natural death, even though he was greatly despised by the Senate, having spent his final days in sexual misconduct and pedophilia. But he was not assonated or killed by anyone. Another problem with Nero is that he did not come into power after the first 10 horns as the text suggests. For the text states that an 11th little horn came up after the first 10 horns; Nero’s succession to power was halfway through the entire list of horns, and the little horn doesn’t come into power until after the first 10 horns. Not to neglect the fact that Nero would have been more than just a little horn; he’d more naturally fit the description of one of the larger 10 horns. Thus, why would this horn have to be little? Hmmm? Think about that for a moment because believe it or not, I have an answer my friends.

How do we solve this problem? We know without a doubt that Christ set up His kingdom during the reigns of the Roman Emperors. The problem is pinning down the identity of the little horn. As stated above, this 11th horn persecutes and over-powers the Saints. In the first century, there were only two Roman Emperors responsible for directly persecuting Christians. These were Nero Caesar, and Flavian Domitian.

Wait just a minute! Domitian? Wasn’t he an 11th king, or 8th from John’s perspective? That’s right folks! John records 7 heads, and an 8th head who was figuratively a revived head from the original seven heads; the head that died of a fatal wound. Yet John mentions nothing of Daniel’s three uprooted, and that’s because they were not true kings. Daniel, on the other hand, mentions an 11th king who caused three to be uprooted.

Now let’s look at the list again:

1. Augustus
2. Tiberius
3. Caligula
4. Claudius
5. Nero
6. Galba
7. Otho
8. Vitelius
9. Vespasian
10. Titus
11. Domitian

Now, historically speaking, who was directly responsible for the deaths of the three kings being killed? It could not have been Vespasian seeing that we know he did not persecute Christians (Saints), and we know he was not responsible for the deaths of Galba, Otho, or Vitelius. But Vespasian did come into power with the help of his two sons, Titus and Domitian. We also know that Nero Caesar did not gain the Roman throne by killing three kings prior to him, although two were killed enabling him to become the next-in-line for the throne. Now what about Titus and Domitian? These were both Roman generals along with their father Vespasian who assisted him in becoming the next king. And who just happened to take part in their fight for the throne against Galba, Otho, and Vitelius? You got it folks! None other than General Domitian! And who was it who was given authority to overpower the Saints? Well we know that Nero Caesar was. But wasn't Emperor Domitian also responsible for the persecution of Christians AND Jews? And who just happens to be the 11th king of Rome? You got it again; none other than Emperor Domitian! Although Domitian would not be directly responsible for the assassinations of Galba, Otho, and Vitelius, his armies may have played a major part in murdering them. Vespasian sent his son Domitian to Rome to claim the throne in place of his father while he was away in Egypt. Domitian temporarily claimed the throne "as the little horn" for his father in December 69AD, which lasted for approximately 6 months. The public loved him and even began chanting "Caesar! Caesar! Caesar!" Hmmm? You think this may have spawned the rumor that Nero was back from the dead, in the form of Domitian? The fact that Domitian possessed the throne for 6 months while his father was away, gives even more reason to identify Daniel's "little horn" as Domitian; the Emperor to be.

Why would/could Domitian be referred to as a little horn in Daniel’s vision? In my opinion, the “little horn” was denoting that he was not yet a king, but a prince who would later become king, yet just happened to gain victory over the previous three kings who were removed (or killed) from the Roman throne. So in my opinion, what Daniel is being shown is a future king, referred to as a "little horn", who was responsible for subduing three kings prior to his ascension as a king; this he did while he was a General. Thus, I believe that Domitian fits the bill of:

1. 11th king of Rome
2. Served as a general (and future king) who led the battle over supremacy for the throne of Rome during its civil war, resulting in the assassination of Galba, Otho, and Vitelius to assist his father Vespasian in becoming the next Emperor of Rome
3. Persecuted both Christians and Jews (as they were not distinguished) in the Roman Arena
4. Declared himself to be divine and demanded Emperor worship
5. Lost his kingdom, which eventually resulted in Rome losing ground to the Church as attested by Pliny the younger in a letter to Emperor Trajan (pagan worship all but gone)

In conclusion, I believe that Domitian was the little horn of Daniel’s 11 horn beast as recorded in chapter 7 who, in my opinion, fulfills the Prophetic vision of Daniel’s fourth beast kingdom. Although Nero Caesar committed the first acts against the Christians primarily in Rome, having used them as a scape goat to blame for the great fire of Rome, yet it was Domitian attacks against the Church, as well as Jews, simply because they refused to bow down and honor him as a god; even the Roman Senate disliked his claim as a deity. Nero did not persecute Christians because they were Christians; he persecuted them because they were an outcast sect highly despised by the public, and were used as scape goats suitable for public ridicule and entertainment (lions, etc.). Domitian, on the other hand, totally hated Christians AND Jews (those who survived the 70AD disaster) because both refused to bow the knee to him as both "lord and god", or "lord and master".

I know this was long, but hopefully this will give everyone something to think about. My final post will be to explain how the “Saints” were given the kingdom. And you just might be surprised. It was not the “kingdom of Christ” that Daniel was speaking of. It was the kingdom of the 11th horn that was lost after the “Ancient of days” set in judgment, and allowed the remainder (residue) of the kingdom to live for a short while. ROME was given to the Saints….i.e., the Empire that was to be struck down by the Stone, Jesus Christ. By the time Domitian died, Rome had become mostly Christian, although persecution would continue for a short while until eventually, what was left of Rome after Domitian’s death, eventually faded away into oblivion.

I hope this post served as valuable information in our attempts to discover the truth of Daniel’s Prophesy! May God bless us all.

Joe