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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didymus View Post
    Unfortunately, money is our means of exchange. And, the Bible doesn't say money is the root of all evil. It says the love of money is the root of all evil.

    Money has been around for a long time. Even Jesus used money.

    I understand all these Didy. Without use of money, will there be love of money? Money has been around for a long time does not mean it will be used forever. Animals don't use money and cavemen didn't used money, why should human used money? The apostles would have become billionairres by raising the dead, cure sickness and cast out demans but why didn't they want to earn those monies?...becasue their goal was the kingdom of heaven...the reward of a hundred fold of all the things they have given up and of course, eternal life. Yes Jesus used money because He was God on earth, and on earth a person is subject to life on earth...eat, sleep, see, talk, buy, sell, used money. Wolnder how can one live without money on earth when everyone used money? Thuis is why I said that a non-monetary Christain communism is impossible with humans but nothing is impossible with God.

    Matthew 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?
    28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.


    Verses that suggest we will not use money in heaven:

    Isaiah 55:
    1"Come, all you who are thirsty,
    come to the waters;
    and you who have no money,
    come, buy and eat!
    Come, buy wine and milk
    without money and without cost.


    Revelation 21:
    6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

    Matthew 6:
    19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

    Matthew 6:
    24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

    1Timothy 6:
    6But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. 11But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness..........17Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. 19In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.

    Matthew 19:
    21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

    22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

    23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

    Acts 8:
    20Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!

    Isaiah 52:
    3For this is what the LORD says: "You were sold for nothing, and without money you will be redeemed."



    See my thread on "Will we use money in heaven":

    http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1346

    Many Blessings.
    Last edited by CWH; 05-04-2011 at 01:05 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  2. #12
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    The economic system of the body is not communism any more that it is capitalism or any other "ism". The governing principle of the Anointed One's Body is that of LOVE. In Christ, love and the transformed charactor of the individuals rule the day as there is no political system in place or advocated at all.

    Jesus' 1st century message to individuals was that the Kingdom was at hand and that they in light of that should divest themselves of their worldly ties and follow him. There was no point in storing up treasure and possessions in the land when in a generation's time it would all be ruined and destroyed. Plus, greater things were in store for those who followed him than could be offered by all the wealth and fame in the world.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by throwback View Post
    The economic system of the body is not communism any more that it is capitalism or any other "ism". The governing principle of the Anointed One's Body is that of LOVE. In Christ, love and the transformed charactor of the individuals rule the day as there is no political system in place or advocated at all.

    Jesus' 1st century message to individuals was that the Kingdom was at hand and that they in light of that should divest themselves of their worldly ties and follow him. There was no point in storing up treasure and possessions in the land when in a generation's time it would all be ruined and destroyed. Plus, greater things were in store for those who followed him than could be offered by all the wealth and fame in the world.
    The only way that people become motivated to follow a leader such as Jesus and spread his message to the world is to convince them to leave their worldly possessions that they are attached to and share the message of a better place not of this world.

    During the time of Jesus in the 1st century a Jewish sect that began around 200 BC, called the Essenes, had already developed the eschatological teaching on the "End of Days" that Jesus was preaching. The lifestyle of the Essenes was one of communal living and much of what we read in the Bible concerning the teachings of Jesus comes directly from the teachings of the Essenes, who had been practicing those principles for two centuries.

    I am doing an in-depth study on the teachings and lifestyles of the Essenes and find the similarities to the teachings of Jesus fascinating. The Essenes even had a prophet whom they called "the teacher of righteousness", he was crucified in 88 BC by the Jewish Ruler Alexander Jannaeus Herod for teaching against the Old Covenant Jewish sacrificial system! Kinda makes one wonder where the teachings of Jesus came from?

    All the Best,
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  4. #14
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    Let's see if we can come to some agreement.

    Would you all agree that all Christians are one in Christ?

    Justice at the expense of the truth is not justice at all.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by throwback View Post
    The economic system of the body is not communism any more that it is capitalism or any other "ism". The governing principle of the Anointed One's Body is that of LOVE. In Christ, love and the transformed charactor of the individuals rule the day as there is no political system in place or advocated at all.

    Jesus' 1st century message to individuals was that the Kingdom was at hand and that they in light of that should divest themselves of their worldly ties and follow him. There was no point in storing up treasure and possessions in the land when in a generation's time it would all be ruined and destroyed. Plus, greater things were in store for those who followed him than could be offered by all the wealth and fame in the world.
    I agree. The word "communism" has connotations relating to the modern theory put forth by Marx and supposedly approximated in the former USSR and China. The modern political system called "communism" has absolutely nothing to do with the communism (communal living) practiced by the early Church.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
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  6. #16
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    Apr 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didymus View Post
    Clifford,

    I find your post a bit perplexing. First, nothing in the original post had anything to do with government forced communism, which, in my opinion, was never really pure communism. I am just as opposed to government forced communism as you are. But that is a different subject. There is a reason I entitled the OP, "Christian Communism." It is precisely because I didn't want people to get the idea that I was a proponent of government forced communism. So I eliminated that part of you post in the quote above.

    To the rest of your post, I say this. Is there not one body of Christ? Do we not have one Lord, one faith, one God, one Holy Spirit? Are we not taught in I Cor. 1.10 that we have the same doctrine, or should have? Are we not all purchased by the same blood? Are we not taught to love one another? Because of all this, do we not have all things in common?

    Now regarding the parable of the talents. Are you suggesting that we should take away from the poor and give to the rich? I believe that the preponderance of Scripture does not teach capitalism. The idea of mutual edification goes against that idea. Besides, in my opinion, capitalism leads to greed. Just look at the United States. Here we have the greedy and the needy. There isn't much left in the middle.

    "The Bible also teaches that when it says if a man does not work he should not eat." No it doesn't. It teaches if a man WILL NOT WORK neither should he eat. Just about everybody misreads that verse. And it is pulled out of context as well.

    Like so many that have responded to this topic on the other forums, you too have confused the idea of government forced communism and Christian communism, and they are two different ideas. Christian communism is based on Christ, not Stalin or Marx.

    I find your post a bit perplexing. First, nothing in the original post had anything to do with government forced communism, which, in my opinion, was never really pure communism. I am just as opposed to government forced communism as you are. But that is a different subject. There is a reason I entitled the OP, "Christian Communism." It is precisely because I didn't want people to get the idea that I was a proponent of government forced communism.
    Hi Didymus,

    Communism as an economic system is always a failure whether government mandated or voluntarily practiced in the Church. I found this interesting article last Thanksgiving that gives a good illustration of this. It shows how the Pilgrims at the Plymouth colony tried to practice communalism and it turned out to be a failure and as a result they almost starved. Here is the link to the article: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...miniter?page=1

    To the rest of your post, I say this. Is there not one body of Christ? Do we not have one Lord, one faith, one God, one Holy Spirit? Are we not taught in I Cor. 1.10 that we have the same doctrine, or should have? Are we not all purchased by the same blood? Are we not taught to love one another? Because of all this, do we not have all things in common?
    Yes we are all part of the body of Christ and are one in him, but that does not mean we should go off and all live together in one big happy commune. I think Christians take what the Church at Jerusalem did in the beginning as a model for the Church to follow down through history. I don't believe that is true. Nowhere else in the NT does it mention the Church living like that. As i said in my previous post they did that because of the soon coming persecution and all their property would be confiscated anyway so might as well sell it now and use the proceeds to help the Church.

    Now regarding the parable of the talents. Are you suggesting that we should take away from the poor and give to the rich? I believe that the preponderance of Scripture does not teach capitalism. The idea of mutual edification goes against that idea. Besides, in my opinion, capitalism leads to greed. Just look at the United States. Here we have the greedy and the needy. There isn't much left in the middle.
    No, I don't think it tells us to take from the poor and give to the rich. What it is saying is that if God gives you a gift or talent and you don't use it it will atrophy and do you no good and you will lose what you have.

    "The Bible also teaches that when it says if a man does not work he should not eat." No it doesn't. It teaches if a man WILL NOT WORK neither should he eat. Just about everybody misreads that verse. And it is pulled out of context as well.
    Ya, you are right, it says if a man is unwilling or does not want to work. Of course if someone is unable to find work and needs a helping hand we should definitely help him.

    Clifford

  7. #17
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    I said: To the rest of your post, I say this. Is there not one body of Christ? Do we not have one Lord, one faith, one God, one Holy Spirit? Are we not taught in I Cor. 1.10 that we have the same doctrine, or should have? Are we not all purchased by the same blood? Are we not taught to love one another? Because of all this, do we not have all things in common?
    Clifford replied: Yes we are all part of the body of Christ and are one in him.
    Well, we agree on this point. So the question then is, how is this manifested among Christians today?

    Justice at the expense of the truth is not justice at all.

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