Daniel's 70 Weeks Another Look

[Beck]

Hi all,

I thought it be good to take another look at Daniel's seventy weeks. For the simply reason many of us have change in time how we view them.

• First there have been the question should there be any gaps or should it be a continually weeks?

But lets first say it was told to Daniel in three parts one of 7 x week = 49 and 62x week = 434 and the final week of 1 x week =7. Which add up to the 7+62+1= 70 [490].

Here I've taken Joe's [TheForgiven] point of view.

7 x 7 = 49 years = start / completion of city and temple
62 x 7 = 434 years = from temple to Anointment of Christ (Baptism)
7 x 1 - 7 = 3 1/2 years Christ ministry, 3 1/2 year Jewish confirming (Gospels through signs and wonders)

Now if one would add the years to this formular it would be as this:

457BC to restore the city and walls (-7) 450BC
450BC to the Messiah the Prince (-434) 26CE
26EC to the middle of that week of the cross (-3.5) 29.5/30CE

In this view one sees what Daniel said concerning the 'week' of verse 27 as then final 70th week of which in the middle Christ is on the cross and the remaining 3.5 of that final week is confirming the gospel to the Jewish nation.

Also in this view one would also be saying that the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. That would be seen not of the literal taken away of the daily, but by the vail been torn and Jesus anointed as the most Holy. And it shall remain this way to the very end and the end of the war desolations are determined. So the final half of the seventy weeks ends around 33AD and it remains until the city and sanctuary is destroyed in 70AD.


Now some here see it much different. Some see the 'week' with a gap of 2000 years and some see that 'week' of Daniel 27 as the final week of the end as in the destruction of the city Jerusalem. Separating the 70 weeks from the end time which would also have a week in determining Judgment on Jerusalem.

The reason I mention these is becasue at one time I saw and understood in these points of views.

So in determining for me one key point is how do we determine the 'he' that confirmed the covenant in the midst of the final week?! To me this has to be referring to Christ on the cross with in the final seventh week.

How to do see this?

[Beck]

This just came to me... The reason why Daniel 9:27 gets placed in the future with an gap or even separated from the seventh week. Would to me seen to be a shadow or a type of what was to come.

What I mean is this, I see that Daniel 9:27 the final week of the seventy weeks as being refering to Christ and what was done on the cross as causing the veil to be torn, hints stopping the oblations. This happens in the middle of the seventh week which I now am considering to be a sign or as I said maybe a shadow / type of what would happen at the end of the age.

Knowing that time and counting of the sevens [weeks] would not stop until the end. So the final week of the end would be fulfilled just like the seventh week. In the middle of that week of the end [consummation] the sacrifices shall be taken away and the abomination that maketh desolation set up. (Daniel 12:11-12).

What do you think?

[TheForgiven]

Good study you've got going on here Beck. I thank you for bringing the subject of Daniel's 70 weeks.

You are correct; the Covenant was "confirmed" by the cross of Christ, and was attested/confirmed by the different gifts of the Spirit. Do a word search for "confirm", and you'll see a HUGE testimony of the cross of Christ being confirmed by the gifts of the Spirit.

What some Preterists struggle with is the destruction of Jerusalem being 40 years after the end of the final week. Many, as I often did in the past, tried to find some possible way to make the destruction of Jerusalem fit within the 70ty week of Daniel. But you see, the destruction of Jerusalem was not part of the 70 sevens, as the Angel does not say that this was part. He does, however, say that "an predetermined end would come as a flood". Predetermined simply means that Daniel's people, temple, and city would come to an end at a predetermined time; this suggests that this event was kept secret. The "weeks" of Daniel were not so secret, although hidden from those who did not understand.

Part of the problem we have today is how the Masoretic text has been so maligned that it's tough to understand it. Let's read the text in question from the Septuagint translation:

26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.

27 And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time [or time of the end] an end shall be put to the desolation.

As you can see, at the time of "the end", a complete end would be brought to the desolation, caused by the Abomination that Jesus spoke of. This Abomination is an example of what happened when Antiochus entered the temple, and did what was not lawful for any Gentile to do; only the High Priest was permitted to enter the Holy of Hollies.

Now the Greek Orthodox Study Bible (now available in stores and which also uses the Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament) states that General Titus entered the Holy of Hollies and offered a swine sacrifice to his god. I cannot find proof of this. Josephus, on the other hand, states that some of the factions were murdering the priests on the altar, and ran within/without the temple as they pleased; this too was an abomination.

Another way of looking at the abomination is the continued animal sacrifices. Since the blood of Jesus was the ultimate bloodshed for our forgiveness, the continued practice of animal sacrifices were in truth an abomination, as though the blood of Jesus were nothing more than a common thing. That's why the author of Hebrews suggested to the Jews that rejecting the blood of Christ (paraphrasing) after receiving the knowledge of truth, as bad as those who disobeyed Moses, and died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witness. Thus, the abomination that continued (animal sacrifices) was brought to an utter end, at a predetermined time.

In conclusion, Beck correctly points out that the 70th week was completed beginning with the Baptism of Jesus, who was anointed with the Holy Spirit, His being "cut-off" in the middle of the week, and finally, confirming the Covenant with the diverse gifts of the Spirit. 3.5 years after the crucifixion of Jesus, the message of the gospels went to the Gentiles, which is symbolic of the ancient Hebrews being led into the wilderness; the Jews who accepted Christ were being led away from Egypt; figuratively speaking. God was preparing a people for the promised kingdom/land. 40 years later, the predetermined "end" came upon Daniel's people, temple, and city.

Joe

[gilgal]

Good study you've got going on here Beck. I thank you for bringing the subject of Daniel's 70 weeks.

You are correct; the Covenant was "confirmed" by the cross of Christ, and was attested/confirmed by the different gifts of the Spirit. Do a word search for "confirm", and you'll see a HUGE testimony of the cross of Christ being confirmed by the gifts of the Spirit.

What some Preterists struggle with is the destruction of Jerusalem being 40 years after the end of the final week. Many, as I often did in the past, tried to find some possible way to make the destruction of Jerusalem fit within the 70ty week of Daniel. But you see, the destruction of Jerusalem was not part of the 70 sevens, as the Angel does not say that this was part. He does, however, say that "an predetermined end would come as a flood". Predetermined simply means that Daniel's people, temple, and city would come to an end at a predetermined time; this suggests that this event was kept secret. The "weeks" of Daniel were not so secret, although hidden from those who did not understand.

Part of the problem we have today is how the Masoretic text has been so maligned that it's tough to understand it. Let's read the text in question from the Septuagint translation:

26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.

27 And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time [or time of the end] an end shall be put to the desolation.

As you can see, at the time of "the end", a complete end would be brought to the desolation, caused by the Abomination that Jesus spoke of. This Abomination is an example of what happened when Antiochus entered the temple, and did what was not lawful for any Gentile to do; only the High Priest was permitted to enter the Holy of Hollies.

Now the Greek Orthodox Study Bible (now available in stores and which also uses the Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament) states that General Titus entered the Holy of Hollies and offered a swine sacrifice to his god. I cannot find proof of this. Josephus, on the other hand, states that some of the factions were murdering the priests on the altar, and ran within/without the temple as they pleased; this too was an abomination.

Another way of looking at the abomination is the continued animal sacrifices. Since the blood of Jesus was the ultimate bloodshed for our forgiveness, the continued practice of animal sacrifices were in truth an abomination, as though the blood of Jesus were nothing more than a common thing. That's why the author of Hebrews suggested to the Jews that rejecting the blood of Christ (paraphrasing) after receiving the knowledge of truth, as bad as those who disobeyed Moses, and died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witness. Thus, the abomination that continued (animal sacrifices) was brought to an utter end, at a predetermined time.

In conclusion, Beck correctly points out that the 70th week was completed beginning with the Baptism of Jesus, who was anointed with the Holy Spirit, His being "cut-off" in the middle of the week, and finally, confirming the Covenant with the diverse gifts of the Spirit. 3.5 years after the crucifixion of Jesus, the message of the gospels went to the Gentiles, which is symbolic of the ancient Hebrews being led into the wilderness; the Jews who accepted Christ were being led away from Egypt; figuratively speaking. God was preparing a people for the promised kingdom/land. 40 years later, the predetermined "end" came upon Daniel's people, temple, and city.

Joe

Well, either way that 70th week seems to be isolated by a time gap. Preterists claim about a 40-year gap, and Futurists claim at least a 2000-year gap. Read this and take it chronologically:

Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Verse 26 talks about the destruction of the temple. But the next verse talks about confirming of the covenant (God's covenant as mentioned about it in Daniel's prayer). So verse 27 must still be futuristic. The prince shall be a Roman. But the people of the prince that shall come means the prince hasn't arrived yet but the people under the guidance of General Titus would destroy the city and the sanctuary.

You might want to consider reading the 69th week of Daniel 9 and the 69th psalm. It talks about the crucifixion and the coming judgment.

[TheForgiven]

Well, either way that 70th week seems to be isolated by a time gap. Preterists claim about a 40-year gap, and Futurists claim at least a 2000-year gap. Read this and take it chronologically:

Verse 26 talks about the destruction of the temple. But the next verse talks about confirming of the covenant (God's covenant as mentioned about it in Daniel's prayer). So verse 27 must still be futuristic. The prince shall be a Roman. But the people of the prince that shall come means the prince hasn't arrived yet but the people under the guidance of General Titus would destroy the city and the sanctuary.

You might want to consider reading the 69th week of Daniel 9 and the 69th psalm. It talks about the crucifixion and the coming judgment.

I disagree. Let's review the passage that lists events that MUST pertain to Daniel's 70 sevens:

24 Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city, 1) for sin to be ended, 2) and to seal up transgressions, 3) and to blot out the iniquities, 4) and to make atonement for iniquities, 5) and to bring in everlasting righteousness, 6) and to seal the vision and the prophet, 7) and to anoint the Most Holy.

7 things take place within the 70 sevens as I numbered them above. There's no mention of the temples destruction in 70AD. That was a "result" of what must take place within the 70 sevens as shown above. The destruction of the temple was a bi-product of the seventy sevens, but not within the seventy sevens itself. Thus there is no gap.

Here's how it must be viewed:

End of sins + ending trangressions + blot out iniquities + atonements + ever lasting righteousness brought it + fulfill vision and Prophet + anoint the Most Holy (Jesus Baptism) = completion of 70 sevens.

THEN the completion of seventy sevents = predetermined end to the Desolation caused by the war that shall come upon them as a flood, resulting in the destruction of the temple in 70AD; this is predetermiend and not part of the 70 sevens.

Hope this helps my friends.

Joe

[Beck]

In conclusion, Beck correctly points out that the 70th week was completed beginning with the Baptism of Jesus, who was anointed with the Holy Spirit, His being "cut-off" in the middle of the week, and finally, confirming the Covenant with the diverse gifts of the Spirit. 3.5 years after the crucifixion of Jesus, the message of the gospels went to the Gentiles, which is symbolic of the ancient Hebrews being led into the wilderness; the Jews who accepted Christ were being led away from Egypt; figuratively speaking. God was preparing a people for the promised kingdom/land. 40 years later, the predetermined "end" came upon Daniel's people, temple, and city.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your insights. What I'm proposing is that the seventh week and the final end week shown in Daniel 9:27 is that one in the spiritual sense and the other in the literal.

Dan 10:1. In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel (who was called Belteshazzar). Its message was true and it concerned a great war. The understanding of the message came to him in a vision.


It appeared that Daniel’s revelation was about a 'great war.' Which war? The Jews will be fighting many wars during the next 500 years from the point in time of this revelation. It’s difficult to see how any literal war would reflect this verse in terms of God’s redemptive plan. Also it’s interesting to note, that some translations replace the words 'a great war,' with 'an event.' Yet either way, the interpretation would remain unchanged.


Chapter 10, the messenger angel explains his purpose. He also enlightened us on activities in the spiritual world, mentioning a spiritual Persian, Greek, and Israelite Prince. Michael was the name of the Israelite Prince.

The angel continues by revealing a spiritual conflict between Greece and Persia. It’s interesting to note that the Greek and Persian spiritual conflict was carbon copied with a literal conflict. Whether each literal battle or war has the spiritual counterpart is not clear. [This is what I'm proposing] The main point to consider here is that spiritual wars do occur. In fact, scripture reveals a spiritual war at the cross (Rev 12:7,11). This war also includes the spiritual destruction of Jerusalem (Zech 13:1-3)(Mt 23:38), which was literally destroyed 40 years later in 70 AD.

Hints this is why it may seen that Daniel 9:27 pictures both the spiritual war and literal war and as the spiritual was the crucifixion of Jesus in the middle of the seventh week which stopped the sacrifices and oblations becasue Jesus is now maded the atonement for sins. But we can also fine a literal side to this prophesy in which Jesus fortold that an abomination would be sit up according to the destruction of the city that no stone be left upon another. This also would happen in the middle of 'a week', but this week is the consummation [end of the age]. Where the sacrifices would be taken away literally through the revolt of 66AD. In Daniel 12 while having the spiritual sence seems to also have a literal sence in that the abomination of verse 11 is toward what Jesus proclaimed in Matthew 24:15. So that they may flee unto the mountains. Daniel was told in 1290 days a half of a week.

[TheForgiven]

Tell you what. Let's you and I start off with a particular chapter in the book of Daniel. It gets confusing when we jump from chapter to chapter.

I believe eventually you'll find that most of Daniel 11 deals with Alexander the Great, and the time of the Seleucids (Greeks who stemmed from Alexander the Great's divided Empire after his death).

Antiochus was the one who destroyed the temple, sacrifices a pig on the altar, in honor of his god Zues. If member recalls, he believed he was a descendant of Zues, and ken to Apollo.

Joe

[TheForgiven]

Beck. I'd recommend reading the book of Maccabees, books 1 through 4. These Old Testament writings were not included in the Masoretic text because they were denied into the Canon (if I'm not mistaken) by the Christians.

Here's a link from the Greek Septuagint:

http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/I%20Maccabees/index.htm

This talks about the infiltration of the temple during the Seleucid Empire (Alexanders divided kingdom).

Joe

[gilgal]

Tell you what. Let's you and I start off with a particular chapter in the book of Daniel. It gets confusing when we jump from chapter to chapter.

I believe eventually you'll find that most of Daniel 11 deals with Alexander the Great, and the time of the Seleucids (Greeks who stemmed from Alexander the Great's divided Empire after his death).

Antiochus was the one who destroyed the temple, sacrifices a pig on the altar, in honor of his god Zues. If member recalls, he believed he was a descendant of Zues, and ken to Apollo.

Joe

The temple wasn't destroyed., only desecrated.

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Good study you've got going on here Beck. I thank you for bringing the subject of Daniel's 70 weeks.

You are correct; the Covenant was "confirmed" by the cross of Christ, and was attested/confirmed by the different gifts of the Spirit.

What some Preterists struggle with is the destruction of Jerusalem being 40 years after the end of the final week. Many, as I often did in the past, tried to find some possible way to make the destruction of Jerusalem fit within the 70ty week of Daniel. But you see, the destruction of Jerusalem was not part of the 70 sevens, as the Angel does not say that this was part. He does, however, say that "an predetermined end would come as a flood". Predetermined simply means that Daniel's people, temple, and city would come to an end at a predetermined time; this suggests that this event was kept secret. The "weeks" of Daniel were not so secret, although hidden from those who did not understand.

Part of the problem we have today is how the Masoretic text has been so maligned that it's tough to understand it. Let's read the text in question from the Septuagint translation:

Joe

Hi Joe.
Can you identify any Hiphil verbs in the Sept?

Hiphil verb tenses in the Masoretic text indicate a cause and effect as translated by the KJV. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, The fulfillment of the sacrificial types, ordinances and administration of the temporal mosaic covenant BY the REALITY of God incarnate Would CAUSE the effect of the end of the sacrifice and oblation and that end would be administered by God. Cause/Effect...Action/reaction.

Understanding these things allows one to 'see' the 70th week as fulfilled from 27-33 and the physical, historical ratification of the covenant would effect the removal of old ordinances that were designed to shadow and confirm the reality of the Creator.

He further canceled the law of sin/spiritual death to those who are drawn to faith in Christ as Creator God/Lord. [Romans 8:2] For there is now NO condemnation for those in faith in Christ Jesus. There is no law of sin/death due to the Messiah; the God-man and his approval of life. We can enter humbly but shamelessly into the presence of 'Daddy' due to the Creators LOVE being so over-abundantly exposed and proven.

The more that one holds to 'the covenant" of Dan 9:27 being the covenant promised from Eden, developed through the histories and fulfilled by Christ, the more it proves itself out in the prophecies of the other scriptures.

Is 59 for instances has the phrase saying "out of that which is crushed, a Viper arises. I think this would refer to the crushing of the Serpent and his 'lies' that was covenanted in Eden and fulfilled by the coming of 'Messiah" including his indwelling in the jews and in Jerusalem during the second 3 1/2 yrs; in keeping with the purposes of vs 24. In the same chapter 59, a verse says; "when the enemy comes in like a flood; the spirit of the Lord will raise up a standard against Him. I'm not sure about this exact translation; but we rightly associate coming in like a flood with Dan 9's 70 wk prophesy.

Thus Isaiah 59 is referring to the last generation from 30-70AD. Paul's referral to it in Romans 11 and his declaration that the Christians ['all Israel' of the Spiritual seed] would be 'saved' or delivered by the coming of the "Deliverer"...Christ in command of the decisions of even the Roman armies. Written in @60 AD; Paul was supporting the second nature of judgment of the incarnation of Christ.

The principles of the dual nature are likely found many places; but especially I think in Isaiah 61:2,3 where the acceptable yr [incarnate lifespan] of the lord is parallel and synonomous to his 'day of vengeance' against mosaic covenant principles...etc. And Rev 15 where they sing of both natures....the song of the Lamb... and the song of Moses of Deut 32 which declared the last generation and judgment by sword of 70 AD.

Isaiah 66 also refers to the abomination of continuing in the sacrifice at this time period as the prophet says, he who cuts the head off a lamb... as if he killed a man.

The 40 yr type was further established by the 40 yrs between the passover lamb in Egypt and the crossing of the Jordan during the establishment of the shadow/conditional Mosaic covenant. From Passover in Jerusalem in 30AD, to the fulfilling of the fall feasts in @70 AD and the recrossing of the Jordan in 67-70 AD, the New Covenant was made upon principles and statutues "NOT LIKE" but contrasted against the mosaic covenant. Jer 31 uses the words "not like".

We have the further confirmation of Davids reign of 40 yrs from his age 30 to age 70.


Beck: I think another apostolic referral to these verses in Daniel is found in Heb 10:37 as the author wrights to the first century readers that he who shall come; must come. I think he refers to judgment and wrath through the decisions of the seat of authority of Rome that MUST COME [for those who originally recived the letter .... and beyond] as he told Pilate and as prophesied in Deut 32:42.