Masoretic Text vs. Greek Septuagint

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey RAM, (Richard),




If an expert does not know the answer, they can only make vague statements. If they do know the answer, they are concise.


The answer is simple now that we're in the end-times. And if I know that answer, I can be concise!


With Best Regards,
BibleScribe

Unfortunately, you have been anything but "concise." You have written many posts, but I have no idea what you think Daniel 9 means or when it was fulfilled! I asked long ago but you demurred.

Maybe you are so inconcise because we are not really in the end times? Just saying ...

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Hey there HRFTD,

But I would take exception to your idea about "temporal discontinuities" in the prophecies. The two time periods described in Isaiah 61:2 as "the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God" are connected in a continuous flow of time. They form a continuous unit. The "day of vengeance" was the end of the "the acceptable year." Your citation of Luke 4:18 as proof of a temporal discontinuity ignores Luke 21:22 which identifies 70 AD as the culmination of the "days of vengeance." Jesus didn't mention the "days of vengeance" in Luke 4:18 because it didn't fit that context. But when we look at Luke as a whole, we see that the "acceptable year of the Lord" and the "day of vengeance of our God" form a continuous whole. This is confirmed in Peter's Pentecostal sermon in which he connected Salvation and the outpouring of the Spirit with the "great and terrible day of the Lord." And it is confirmed again in the prophecy of John the Baptist who prepared the way for Christ and warned of the judgment that would soon follow. I see absolutely no Biblical evidence anywhere for a gap of 2000+ years.

Also, I'd like to welcome you to the forum!

Richard

I have another consideration as to why Jesus stopped at the first half of Is 61:2. That prophecy talks about setting the captives free. That woudl be done in the release from the law of sin/death and the closure on the mosaic covenant. If we allow that judaism was a captivity and enslavement to the law; and that the babylonian captivity was a forecast of the events at the desolation, then Jesus is associating himself with Cyrus, who set the captives free. Cyrus is also referred to as 'annointed' for this purpose.

not a compelling reason to stop in the middle and the better answer is found in your reasoning that the time for the vengeance had not been filled up. But some of the more astute ones who heard Jesus may have made a connection of being released from babylon by the annointed one Cyrus and the prophecy in Daniel of the coming of the annointed one [Jesus] to release the captives.

[Richard Amiel McGough]

I have another consideration as to why Jesus stopped at the first half of Is 61:2. That prophecy talks about setting the captives free. That woudl be done in the release from the law of sin/death and the closure on the mosaic covenant. If we allow that judaism was a captivity and enslavement to the law; and that the babylonian captivity was a forecast of the events at the desolation, then Jesus is associating himself with Cyrus, who set the captives free. Cyrus is also referred to as 'annointed' for this purpose.

not a compelling reason to stop in the middle and the better answer is found in your reasoning that the time for the vengeance had not been filled up. But some of the more astute ones may have made a connection of being released by Cyrus and the coming of the annointed one.

I could see both as possible. I think the primary reason is as I stated. Christ separated the "days of vengeance" from the promise of redemption because of context. It made a lot of sense to stop where he did in Luke 4:18, and the association with Cyrus makes sense too.

[BibleScribe]

Hey RAM (Richard),

Unfortunately, you have been anything but "concise." You have written many posts, but I have no idea what you think Daniel 9 means or when it was fulfilled! I asked long ago but you demurred.

Maybe you are so inconcise because we are not really in the end times? Just saying ...

What good is an answer without an explanation, and who wants to muck through an explanation? It's so much easier to hold onto various views (whether correct or not) than to resolve what Scripture and History might actually say. And as to this Topic, I would propose that the Masoretic text contains aspects in the specific words that the Septuagint does not. And lacking those aspects it's like reading the English translation of John 21 where Jesus asked Peter "do you love me", versus the original text which asked "do you agape me".

They're two different conversations, only one of which is accurate. And so too between the Masoretic and Septuagint, only one is accurate.


BibleScribe

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey RAM (Richard),

What good is an answer without an explanation, and who wants to muck through an explanation? It's so much easier to hold onto various views (whether correct or not) than to resolve what Scripture and History might actually say. And as to this Topic, I would propose that the Masoretic text contains aspects in the specific words that the Septuagint does not. And lacking those aspects it's like reading the English translation of John 21 where Jesus asked Peter "do you love me", versus the original text which asked "do you agape me".

They're two different conversations, only one of which is accurate. And so too between the Masoretic and Septuagint, only one is accurate.


BibleScribe

Hummm .... I still have no idea how you interpret Daniel 9.

What do you think it is about? When was it (or will it be) fulfilled?

[BibleScribe]

H
ummm .... I still have no idea how you interpret Daniel 9.

LOL, -- I'll tell you this, it wouldn't be the "dismal swamp" if ancient history had already converged with it. Thus one might consider the era approximate to ~1948.


With Best Regards,
BibleScribe

[Richard Amiel McGough]

LOL, -- I'll tell you this, it wouldn't be the "dismal swamp" if ancient history had already converged with it. Thus one might consider the era approximate to ~1948.


With Best Regards,
BibleScribe

Why are you so evasive? Why don't you just say what you mean?

[BibleScribe]

Why don't you just say what you mean?

The question is whether the Masoretic or the Septuagint is reliable. And where the Dead Sea Scrolls substantiate the integrity of the Masoretic from a historical perspective, I would argue that the Masoretic is accurate from an analytical perspective, as based upon the inherent truth of Scripture.

But if you think there are other aspects which should be considered, then please feel free to expand the discussion into areas of interest to you!


With Best Regards,
BibleScribe

[Richard Amiel McGough]

The question is whether the Masoretic or the Septuagint is reliable. And where the Dead Sea Scrolls substantiate the integrity of the Masoretic from a historical perspective, I would argue that the Masoretic is accurate from an analytical perspective, as based upon the inherent truth of Scripture.

But if you think there are other aspects which should be considered, then please feel free to expand the discussion into areas of interest to you!


With Best Regards,
BibleScribe

No, not at all. I was talking about your interpretation of Daniel that you are trying to support with all this nit-picking about translations and "inconcise masculine" and all that.

I'm guessing that you think Daniel 9 is about the 70 years from 1948 to 2018 when you think Christ is going to return. Is that correct?

If so, where did you get this idea? Do you have a website promoting it? Have you made end time predictions in the past or are you new to the date-setting game?

All the best,

Richard

[BibleScribe]

Hey RAM, (Richard),

... are you new to the date-setting game?

LOL, -- no, and I don't think either of us are "new" to too many things.


But I gotta tell you, '93, '97, & 2000 weren't "date setting" anymore than having 29 years of service in 2014 is "date setting". And they're were (are) all correct except possibly for 2014, with an ~advisory~ by my wife if I "don't knock it off".

But salvation is not dependent on understanding prophecy, and that's the most important consideration. However, prophecy is provided that we not be caught unaware. Thus my council.


With Best Regards,
BibleScribe