The "ye" principle, this generation, & Mt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21.

[Brother Les]

Hi Twospirits;

I think this thread has its roots in a conversation you were having with me on another website.



I want to clarify that the YOU that I was locking in to the generation of Jesus was Mark 13:3:

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 'Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?'

Along with Marks words here:

29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Many verses with the word YOU in them can refer to people over all time such as John 14:

2 In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

IN the above Jesus means all of us not just Peter who was His audience.

Just wanted to clear that up.

noble

Welcome to the Bible Wheel Forum, noble, but your point of the 'you' in John 14 is wrong. Jesus was talking to and meant what He was saying to those in front of Him. The application of what Jesus is saying is true for many who are not 'in the room' and who are not His audience at the time of John 14:2, but that does not put that to a different 'you'. Jesus statement was 'hyperbole' ('rooms/mansions in Heaven?) and you (noble) are pushing the 'you' in the audience into hyperbole.
YLTJohn14:
1`Let not your heart be troubled, believe in God, also in me believe;

2in the house of my Father are many mansions; and if not, I would have told you; I go on to prepare a place for you;

3and if I go on and prepare for you a place, again do I come, and will receive you unto myself, that where I am ye also may be;

4and whither I go away ye have known, and the way ye have known.'

[heb13-13]

To begin, we must first define the meaning of a 'disciple.'

In Christianity: A disciple is one who follows the teachings or doctrines of a person (Christ) whom he or she considers to be a master or authority.

The Biblical definition of "disciple", goes a bit further than "following" teachings. If anyone has the life of Christ indwelling them they are disciples.

I John 5:12: He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

You know if you have the Son of God because this "witness is in yourself".

I John 5:10: He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:

I John 5:20: And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

[Twospirits]

The Biblical definition of "disciple", goes a bit further than "following" teachings. If anyone has the life of Christ indwelling them they are disciples.

I John 5:12: He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

You know if you have the Son of God because this "witness is in yourself".

I John 5:10: He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:

I John 5:20: And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

How true, and Amen to that! Thank you for the full definition of what a true disciple of Christ is.

God bless---Twospirits

[noble]

Hi Brother Les;

Welcome to the Bible Wheel Forum, noble,

Thank you.

..... but your point of the 'you' in John 14 is wrong. Jesus was talking to and meant what He was saying to those in front of Him. The application of what Jesus is saying is true for many who are not 'in the room' and who are not His audience at the time of John 14:2, but that does not put that to a different 'you'. Jesus statement was 'hyperbole' ('rooms/mansions in Heaven?) and you (noble) are pushing the 'you' in the audience into hyperbole.

Yes, Jesus meant it for those who were in front of Him as well, as I see it. However, what He said is for all of the YOU's that follow Peter , wouldn't you think? Like does Jesus not have a room prepared for you and I?

Maybe there is a better example for me to use here alright???????

noble


YLTJohn14:
1`Let not your heart be troubled, believe in God, also in me believe;

2in the house of my Father are many mansions; and if not, I would have told you; I go on to prepare a place for you;

3and if I go on and prepare for you a place, again do I come, and will receive you unto myself, that where I am ye also may be;

4and whither I go away ye have known, and the way ye have known.'[/QUOTE]

[noble]

Hi Twospirits;

On another website you asked that I bring this up here. I kinda thot I already did but ......................

I offered that Mark 13 says:

29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

I asked who th YOU were in those sentences and the answer of course, is found in Mark 13:3:

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 'Tell us, when will these things happen?

So how can you expect to see the 'things' happen when Jesus told those four men that they would see them?

noble

[Twospirits]

Hi Twospirits;

On another website you asked that I bring this up here. I kinda thot I already did but ......................

I offered that Mark 13 says:

29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

I asked who th YOU were in those sentences and the answer of course, is found in Mark 13:3:

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 'Tell us, when will these things happen?

So how can you expect to see the 'things' happen when Jesus told those four men that they would see them?

noble

Yes, we did discuss that, and I tried to convey to you in various ways by using the "this generation" the "you principle" seen in prophetic scripture that though the prophecy may be spoken and given to some at a particular time (generation), the fulfillment applies to the generation onto whom the prophecy would be fulfilled. Now concerning Mark 13:29-30, Jesus was NOT just talking to these four men. Jesus said 'And what I say (the prophecy) unto YOU I say unto ALL, Watch' (Mark 13:37).

Twospirits

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hey folks,

I moved my off-topic conversation with Rick over to its own thread called How do you know if you have the life of Christ in you?.

Richard

[noble]

Yes, we did discuss that, and I tried to convey to you in various ways by using the "this generation" the "you principle" seen in prophetic scripture that though the prophecy may be spoken and given to some at a particular time (generation), the fulfillment applies to the generation onto whom the prophecy would be fulfilled. Now concerning Mark 13:29-30, Jesus was NOT just talking to these four men. Jesus said 'And what I say (the prophecy) unto YOU I say unto ALL, Watch' (Mark 13:37).

Twospirits

Can more than one generation see the abomination that foretells the great tribulation which is a once in creation event?

noble

[Twospirits]

noble wrote,

Can more than one generation see the abomination that foretells the great tribulation which is a once in creation event?

If you speak of THE abomination referred to in Matthew, Mark and Daniel, then only one particular generation will live to see its fulfillment. We have discussed these things at CARM in the preterist forum in depth, and you obviously see it as past and I see it as future; so it seems we have come to a point where we agree to disagree on this matter.

Twospirits

[noble]

If you speak of THE abomination referred to in Matthew, Mark and Daniel, then only one particular generation will live to see its fulfillment. We have discussed these things at CARM in the preterist forum in depth, and you obviously see it as past and I see it as future; so it seems we have come to a point where we agree to disagree on this matter.

Twospirits

Let's look into the biblical implictions of believing one way or the other.

In Matthew 24, when the people, the friends of Jesus, see the abomination they are told to flee from Judea, right?

noble