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  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Yes, you are correct, although He did manifest Himself in Solomon's temple until Solomon sinned. But that isn't the point. This has nothing to do with Matthew 24, and you've yet to explain your connection of this topic (God dwelling in temples) with that of Matthew 24, Luke 21, or Mark 13.

    If you're only point is that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD did not mark the "end of the Age", then obviously there is a problem. Because the end of the age would happen immediately after the distress of those days (Matthew 24), and after the destruction of Jerusalem; it all happens in one sequence of events, from the persecution of the Apostles, to God avenging their persecution upon the same Harlot that crucified Jesus on the cross, resulting in their utter and complete destruction in 70AD.

    The end of the world/age happens at the end of the world/age. When the seventh trumpet sounds this age ends. It didn't happen in 70AD. The harlot hasn't yet faced the wrath of the Lord.





    On a side note, can you please explain why Luke and Mark did not include the phrase "end of the Age", yet they received the same set of answeres as Matthew?

    Joe


    That's an interesting question. I believe He did mention it but not in the same manner (as end of the age.) For instance, in the account given in Mark....



    Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    13:19-20 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.

    13:23-26 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


    We are to "endure to the end." 70AD wasn't the end. The world has seen a great deal of affliction, including the 70AD event but....the final affliction will be much worse, but in a different way. It is deception. Great deception.

    We are among those He has called and chosen. We are the "stars of heaven" and some of us "shall fall." What causes the fall from heaven? Deception.

    So, this account is as the one in Matthew and the world/age ends when we "see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory."



    .

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    Whirlwind, please correct me if I'm wrong. By your post here I take it to mean you see the entire Olivet Discourse (Matthew, Mark and Luke) as being future in fulfillment to our day because of what we see "still standing" in Jerusalem today. That this Discourse is not related whatsoever to the fall of Jerusalem and the buildings of the temple in 70 A.D. That what Jesus prophesies here in the Discourse is meant to be "an end of the age" fulfillment. Is this correct?

    God bless---Twospirits


    Yes, that is correct. The literal destruction in 70AD was a type, an example, of what will occur spiritually.


    1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.



    However, when you say "standing in Jerusalem today," I see that spiritually too.

    Is Islam (in the literal Jerusalem) part of this? Yes, but the greater part is the deception of those standing among us, "standing in Jerusalem." We are His holy city and in our midst now are the antichrists pretending to be of us. They stand at pulpits, they speak from our televisions, they teach on forums, they write books...deceiving all that will allow it. The abomination stands in the holy place.


    And THAT IS INTERPRETATION.


    .

  3. #93
    Whirlwind wrote,

    Yes, that is correct. The literal destruction in 70AD was a type, an example, of what will occur spiritually.

    1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.



    However, when you say "standing in Jerusalem today," I see that spiritually too.

    Is Islam (in the literal Jerusalem) part of this? Yes, but the greater part is the deception of those standing among us, "standing in Jerusalem." We are His holy city and in our midst now are the antichrists pretending to be of us. They stand at pulpits, they speak from our televisions, they teach on forums, they write books...deceiving all that will allow it. The abomination stands in the holy place.


    And THAT IS INTERPRETATION.
    Thank you, that's what I thought you were trying to get across to the readers. Now maybe we can make some headway. I agree that a good part of the prophecy is about "a falling away" and great "deceit" when "the abomination stands in the holy place."

    And yes, I also agree that you have given an interpretation

    God bless---Twospirits
    "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4).

  4. #94
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    Originally Posted by TheForgiven
    Yes, you are correct, although He did manifest Himself in Solomon's temple until Solomon sinned. But that isn't the point. This has nothing to do with Matthew 24, and you've yet to explain your connection of this topic (God dwelling in temples) with that of Matthew 24, Luke 21, or Mark 13.

    If you're only point is that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD did not mark the "end of the Age", then obviously there is a problem. Because the end of the age would happen immediately after the distress of those days (Matthew 24), and after the destruction of Jerusalem; it all happens in one sequence of events, from the persecution of the Apostles, to God avenging their persecution upon the same Harlot that crucified Jesus on the cross, resulting in their utter and complete destruction in 70AD.
    The end of the world/age happens at the end of the world/age. When the seventh trumpet sounds this age ends. It didn't happen in 70AD. The harlot hasn't yet faced the wrath of the Lord.
    Yes we know it happens when it happens. The problem is WHEN these things take place. Sense it is obvious from the plain meaning of the text, WIHTIN CONTEXT, the things that took place happened in their life-time. Now Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 make no mention of a Harlot. Now I understand your position that the Harlot is not the Apostates in the first century, but that is another discussion. Right now, we’re discussing Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 with regards to the destruction of city of Jerusalem and the temple. Jesus gave answers to the following questions:

    1. When will the destruction of the temple be?
    2. What will be the sign of His Parasouia to fulfill those events (Matthew 24:15 Abomination of Desolation) and of the ages end?

    [Daniel’s Prophesy states that the Messiah destroys the temple and city with the ruler who was to come]
    All of the signs include:
    1. Wars and rumors of wars
    2. Nation rising against each other
    3. Famines, pestilences, earth quakes

    All of these events indicate something is about ready to be born; they are figuratively speaking, birth pains.

    4. Apostles delivered to Tribulation, hated for His Name’s sake (Jesus).
    5. Many will be offended, and betray one another.
    6. Increased Lawlessness
    7. Greed for money
    8. Kingdom preached to all the inhabited Nations
    9. Abomination that sets up the Desolation of Jerusalem (leads to Destruction of the temple)
    10. Christians flee (historically to Mt. Pella)
    11. Famine and starvation during the Desolation of Jerusalem [women eating their own young to survive]
    12. False Messiah’s and false Prophets
    13. Greatest Tribulation Jews ever faced
    14. Tribulation ends, sun is darkened, moon has no light, and the SIGN of the Parasouia appears in the sky
    15. Son of Man comes in clouds of judgment (Temple is destroyed / Daniel’s Prophesy is fulfilled).
    16. Gathering of His elect
    17. END OF THE AGE

    In my opinion, every single event described here happened from 30AD to 70AD, from the Apostles initial ministry at Pentecost, to the destruction of Jerusalem as foretold by the Prophet Daniel in 70AD, leading up to the ages end. I’d be interested to know which of the above events did not happen in the first century, and please explain.

    On a side note, can you please explain why Luke and Mark did not include the phrase "end of the Age", yet they received the same set of answers as Matthew?

    Joe
    That's an interesting question. I believe He did mention it but not in the same manner (as end of the age.) For instance, in the account given in Mark....

    Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    13:19-20 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.

    13:23-26 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

    We are to "endure to the end." 70AD wasn't the end. The world has seen a great deal of affliction, including the 70AD event but....the final affliction will be much worse, but in a different way. It is deception. Great deception.

    We are among those He has called and chosen. We are the "stars of heaven" and some of us "shall fall." What causes the fall from heaven? Deception.

    So, this account is as the one in Matthew and the world/age ends when we "see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory."
    That was Jesus who spoke of “the end” and not Luke. Verse 13 is the response from Jesus. Thus, as I’ve indicated, neither Luke nor Mark ask when the age would end? There’s a reason why, and that’s because to them, the destruction of the temple all involved the Parasouia of the Messiah, who would destroy Daniel’s city, people, and temple, and usher in an new age.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  5. #95
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    Whirlwind
    Yes, that is correct. The literal destruction in 70AD was a type, an example, of what will occur spiritually.


    1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.


    Once again your timelines are 'Jacked'...... The Apostle Paul told the Corinthians that the ends of the 'World' (Mosaic World) were coming upon them. The Temple destruction could not be an 'example to the Corinthians they knew nothing of its' destruction because it was decades in THEIR future.In Reading 1 Corinthians 10 we can see who Paul is reffering to as to whom 'The Examples happened to and What those examples were'.



    1 Corinthians 10
    1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

    2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

    3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

    4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

    6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.


    Jesus Christ was with Their Fathers, giving Their Fathers Spiritual meat and Spiritual drink as they Walked through the Wilderness of the Sinai Desert.



    You are only fooling yourself in reading into Scripture a paradiym that you hope for, but time after time you stumble for not seeing the context or the timeline.
    Brother Les

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Twospirits View Post
    Thank you, that's what I thought you were trying to get across to the readers. Now maybe we can make some headway. I agree that a good part of the prophecy is about "a falling away" and great "deceit" when "the abomination stands in the holy place."

    And yes, I also agree that you have given an interpretation

    God bless---Twospirits

    I used to see a future time when the abomination would stand there, in the time of the great tribulation. I now see that verse as the abomination being here now. Actually, I see the abomination as our own carnal nature.

    Am I right? I dunno'. Is the abomination of desolation our "old man" that must be crucified in order to have Him dwell in us?

    Many thoughts to be pondered as one meditates.....

    Psalm 63:6 When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches.



    .

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    Once again your timelines are 'Jacked'...... The Apostle Paul told the Corinthians that the ends of the 'World' (Mosaic World) were coming upon them. The Temple destruction could not be an 'example to the Corinthians they knew nothing of its' destruction because it was decades in THEIR future.



    Mosaic world is written somewhere? Nope...can't find it.



    In Reading 1 Corinthians 10 we can see who Paul is reffering to as to whom 'The Examples happened to and What those examples were'.



    1 Corinthians 10
    1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

    2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

    3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

    4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

    6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.


    Jesus Christ was with Their Fathers, giving Their Fathers Spiritual meat and Spiritual drink as they Walked through the Wilderness of the Sinai Desert.

    He feeds us today and "my cup runneth over."

    Psalm 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

    The examples Paul wrote of are for the end of days....didn't happen in 70AD. Hold onto your hat Brother Les for...He cometh quickly.



    You are only fooling yourself in reading into Scripture a paradiym that you hope for, but time after time you stumble for not seeing the context or the timeline.

    I have stumbled many times in my life but I have not yet stumbled on KNOWING the end didn't happen in 70AD.



    .

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    I used to see a future time when the abomination would stand there, in the time of the great tribulation. I now see that verse as the abomination being here now. Actually, I see the abomination as our own carnal nature.

    Am I right? I dunno'. Is the abomination of desolation our "old man" that must be crucified in order to have Him dwell in us?

    Many thoughts to be pondered as one meditates.....

    Psalm 63:6 When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches.



    .

    The Abomination (that makes desolate) could only be in the Holy Place. This can only be in the Holy of Holies of Harods Temple. This Abomination was the murder (blood spilt in the Holy of Holies) of all of the Temple Priests by the Edomean Army that was inside the Jerusalem wall during the Jewish Wars.
    Brother Les

  9. #99
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    whirlwind
    Mosaic world is written somewhere? Nope...can't find it.
    That was The Age of The Law that Jesus Christ was born under and Died Under. that was 'The World' and Covenant that was waxing old and fading away.


    He feeds us today and "my cup runneth over."

    Psalm 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over
    Are you King David? he is the one who wrote the 23rd Psalm, about himself.

    I have stumbled many times in my life but I have not yet stumbled on KNOWING the end didn't happen in 70AD.

    Your impression of what and when is the 'End' is to be, is in error. This is why I think that you can not move beyond the mindset of a 10 years old. I know that it is ingrained in your mind and you are blind to the hermeneutical understanding of Scripture.

    You are not the 'First person' subject of the NT, you (we) are 2,000 years beyond that. What was written to 'them' (first Century) would be false letters and false Hope, for they all believed and understood that 'the time of The End' (the Bible never says End of Time) was upon their Generation and it was. If it was not for the First Century Peoples then Jesus Christ and His Apostles were lying to them from the Books of Acts to Revelation. by Jesus and the Apostles lying to their First Century Audience, then it conveys the facts forward that none of the words in the NT or OT are believable for anything.
    Brother Les

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    The Abomination (that makes desolate) could only be in the Holy Place. This can only be in the Holy of Holies of Harods Temple. This Abomination was the murder (blood spilt in the Holy of Holies) of all of the Temple Priests by the Edomean Army that was inside the Jerusalem wall during the Jewish Wars.

    The abomination is in the holy place.....the holy place is not nor ever has been the buildings of the temple:

    Deuteronomy 26:19 And to make thee high above all nations which He hath made, in praise, and in name, and in honour; and that thou mayest be an holy people unto the LORD thy God, as He hath spoken.

    Psalm 86:2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save Thy servant that trusteth in thee.

    1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

    Leviticus 11:44-45 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

    He is still bringing us out of the land of Egypt today Brother Les. Egypt is symbolic of the world and it's carnal pleasures. He asks us to leave it behind....

    Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.



    .

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