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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    Why do you not respond to the facts that I presented? There cannot be any intact remnants of the "ten tribes" hiding out amongst the Gentiles because they would breed with them, and after one or two hundred generations their genes would be so deeply mixed with the gene pool of the general population that no particular individual would be any more a "descendant" of the "ten tribes" than anyone else.
    All the mixing is pretty much in present time. Before the United States of America, ethnic groups stayed within ethnic groups and it is only in the last few years that races have mixed...at least to the extent now seen.
    That is totally false. It is absurdly false. The ten tribes known as the "house of Israel" were driven out of the promised land in the 8th century BC. That's about 2700 years ago!

    Is there any record of any of those tribes existing as identifiable groups that avoided interbreeding with Gentiles? No. And even the "Jews" who have kept pretty tight breeding groups after being evicted from Israel in 70 AD have largely intermixed with Gentiles. This is easily proven by DNA.

    These are elementary facts that destroy the "two house" doctrine and the idea that the ten tribes have retained their genetic identity after 2700 years of intermixing. I have posted the evidence in another thread a couple years ago. I find it and show it to you when I get back from my afternoon walk with Rose.

    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    The whole concept of "ten tribes" somehow retaining their "secret identity" while interbreeding with Gentiles for over 2000 years is logically impossible. Do you understand this?
    I don't see it as "secret identity," just a forgotten identity. Interestingly, Manasseh means forgetful.
    Right ... so let's think about this. An Israelite from the tribe of Asher, say, breeds with a Gentile woman. Their kids are half-Asher. Then their kids breed with a Gentile and the grand-kids are 1/4 Asher and 3/4 Gentile. After a hundred generations, nearly every "Gentile" can now trace their ancestry to that one person. That's how population dynamics works. We are all cousins. As soon as the DNA gets into the interbreeding communities, it quickly diffuses throughout the whole world. I'll show you the technical scientific articles when I get back from my walk.

    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    The verse I countered with held great meaning. Please read it again.
    Of course the verse has great meaning. It speaks of the things that the Spirit reveals to believers, that look like foolishness to non-believers. It has absolutely nothing to do with the foolish errors of date-setting.



    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    Your chronic abuse of Scripture contradicts your pious claims about learning from the "Master" and all that. If I know anything, I know the "Master" has not been teaching you to abuse the Bible the way you do. And claiming that your own private idiosyncratic interpretations come straight from God is extremely arrogant. Indeed, is it not blasphemous to attribute false statements to God?

    All the best,

    Richard
    Try as you might...I am not offended. But, thank you for "All the best."


    Matthew 11:6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in Me.

    John 16:1-3 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor Me.

    .
    I'm NOT trying to offend. But the truth is offensive in this case because you are in the habit of denying truth, and claiming that your wild interpretations of the Bible are not "interpretations" at all but rather "what the Bible says." That is a fundamental delusion. And it is extremely arrogant for you to assert that your own fallible ideas are really "just what the Bible says."

    I am truly and sincerely trying to help. I really do want what is best for you. And in my estimation, the most important thing for you to know is that you are under the delusion that you do not "interpret" the Bible.

    Well, gotta go!

    Chat more when we get back.

    All the best, my friend!

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  2. #52
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    According to Flavius Josephus: "...the entire body of the people of Israel remained in that country; wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers." -Antiquities of the Jews (Book XI Chapter 5 Section 2)

    Genesis 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

    Melo ha goyim fulness of the gentiles

    THE GRAFTING OF THE SEED OF ABRAHAM

    Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    Bereishit 12:3
    "And in thee shall all families of the earth nivrecu [will be grafted or intermingled]."

    Ve nivrecu bekah kol mishpachot ha-adamah."

    In the Orthodox Jewish ArtScroll Tenakh Series, Volume 1, page 432, it is written:

    There is … an opinion shared by Rashbam [to Genesis 28:14], Chizkuni, Da’as Zekeinum, and quoted by Tur that the verb (ve nivrecu) in Genesis 12:3 is related to the root barak as in the Mishnaic term mavreek meaning to "intermingle or graft." [cf Kelaim 7:1, Sotah 43a.] As Heidenheim explains it, this interpretation is inspired by the fact that nowhere else besides here do we find barak in the sense of blessing in the niphal conjugation, while in the sense of "grafting" it is common in that form.

    Orthodox Jew Yair Davidy / four videos on this page

    Proves the Lost Tribes of Israel are fulfilling their heritage as prophesied mainly in western nations, biblically and historically


    Jeremiah 50:4 In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.

    41 % of all the people who identify as Judah, live in the usa

    41% of all the people who identify as Yehudah live in Yisra'EL


    usa 41
    Last edited by 144; 02-08-2011 at 03:13 PM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    According to Flavius Josephus: "...the entire body of the people of Israel remained in that country; wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers." -Antiquities of the Jews (Book XI Chapter 5 Section 2)

    Genesis 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

    Melo ha goyim fulness of the gentiles

    THE GRAFTING OF THE SEED OF ABRAHAM

    Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    Bereishit 12:3
    "And in thee shall all families of the earth nivrecu [will be grafted or intermingled]."

    Ve nivrecu bekah kol mishpachot ha-adamah."

    In the Orthodox Jewish ArtScroll Tenakh Series, Volume 1, page 432, it is written:

    There is … an opinion shared by Rashbam [to Genesis 28:14], Chizkuni, Da’as Zekeinum, and quoted by Tur that the verb (ve nivrecu) in Genesis 12:3 is related to the root barak as in the Mishnaic term mavreek meaning to "intermingle or graft." [cf Kelaim 7:1, Sotah 43a.] As Heidenheim explains it, this interpretation is inspired by the fact that nowhere else besides here do we find barak in the sense of blessing in the niphal conjugation, while in the sense of "grafting" it is common in that form.

    Orthodox Jew Yair Davidy / four videos on this page

    Proves the Lost Tribes of Israel are fulfilling their heritage as prophesied mainly in western nations, biblically and historically


    Jeremiah 50:4 In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.

    41 % of all the people who identify as Judah, live in the usa

    41% of all the people who identify as Yehudah live in Yisra'EL


    usa 41
    Hey there 144,

    Great post! Thanks. You presented a lot of info.

    Re Josephus: It doesn't look like he really knew where the tribes were, or if they even existed. If they were "beyond the Euphrates" why are they invisible in all history? It seems most likely that he was just passing on a wishful tradition that imagined they still existed "somewhere over the rainbow" or in this case, "beyond the Euphrates." That quote from Josephus would not convince anyone not already convinced.

    Re nivrecu: I would have to do more research to confirm the connection with the idea of "mingling" but even if Chumney is correct, it is not a proof of anything because you cannot create or confirm new doctrines by playing with puns on the words of Scripture. Otherwise folks can make up any doctrine they want from the limitless ocean of possible puns. At best they might exemplify the doctrines established by the plain meaning. In this case, we know the primary meaning is "blessed" because that's how it was translated in the New Testament.

    Re Videos from the BritAm site: I'm not sure it's worth my time to refute them since the whole doctrine of British Israelitism is totally bogus.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #54
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    Parthian

    Brit Covenant Am People - Covenant People

    Yair Davidy, he is an orthodox Jew not a british Israelite/ oy vey

    Note that when Josephus mentioned "Asia", he was referring to Asia Minor or modern-day Turkey. In general, he made a semi-veiled reference to the Ten Tribes of Israel being located in Parthian territory, Rome's arch rival across the Euphrates River, the de facto border between the two empires. He did not need to say "Parthia". Everyone during his time knew what he was referring to in the same way people living in California today would not need a description of what is "east of the Mississippi River" or what is "south of the Rio Grande". Yet, for those who understand the extreme fluidity of the Middle East and Central Asia, it begs the question: "Who are the Parthians today?" ...or rather: "Where did the descendants of Parthia and related Saka-Scythian peoples go in later centuries?"

    Because of numerous circumstances that led up to and followed the collapse of the Parthian Empire in the 3rd Century CE, we believe most of the evidence indicates some of their descendant population remained in Asia, but much of it (and closely related groups surrounding Parthia) expanded into Europe and deeper into India during the time period known as the Great Migration. For more evidence, see: Israelite Haplogroup (DNA) Hypotheses
    Last edited by 144; 02-08-2011 at 04:57 PM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    Note that when Josephus mentioned "Asia", he was referring to Asia Minor or modern-day Turkey. In general, he made a semi-veiled reference to the Ten Tribes of Israel being located in Parthian territory, Rome's arch rival across the Euphrates River, the de facto border between the two empires. He did not need to say "Parthia". Everyone during his time knew what he was referring to in the same way people living in California today would not need a description of what is "east of the Mississippi River" or what is "south of the Rio Grande". Yet, for those who understand the extreme fluidity of the Middle East and Central Asia, it begs the question: "Who are the Parthians today?" ...or rather: "Where did the descendants of Parthia and related Saka-Scythian peoples go in later centuries?"

    Because of numerous circumstances that led up to and followed the collapse of the Parthian Empire in the 3rd Century CE, we believe most of the evidence indicates some of their descendant population remained in Asia, but much of it (and closely related groups surrounding Parthia) expanded into Europe and deeper into India during the time period known as the Great Migration. For more evidence, see: Israelite Haplogroup (DNA) Hypotheses
    I don't see how any of this matters. The fact remains that the ten lost tribes have not retained any identity so they can not prevent interbreeding with Gentiles, and after more than 2000 years of such interbreeding, there is nothing left to identify. Their DNA is part of the Gentile DNA. Remember, we are all cousins. Folks who believe that the ten tribes are somehow mixed in anonymously amongst the Gentiles just don't understand population dynamics. For example (source):
    One very interesting probability model created by a demographer for genealogists, is that a child born in 1947 in Englad tracing back to 1492 would have 60,000 ancestors. Going back further to 1215, this child would find that 80% of the entire population of England at that time would be on his/her family tree! So anyone living in present-day England who traces his/her lineage back through English history would theoretically be related. This is why genealogists find so many people searching for the same families in the 1600s and earlier, and why we find so many "cousins" out there in our search. I've found hundreds of cousins in the last year while searching via the Internet.
    That conclusion is based on only 800 years. The ten tribes have been intermingling with Gentiles for at least 2000 years. They are now completely blended into the Gentile gene pool. They do not exist any more.

    And here is the clincher. There have been plenty from the House of Judah that also introduced their genes into the general population thousands of years ago, so almost everyone on the planet can trace their heritage back to both "houses" and we see that the whole "two house" theory is absurd and contrary to the facts.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  6. #56
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    Here is something I posted on this topic last summer.

    Here's an article from ScienceDaily that explains how a scientist has concluded that everyone currently living - that's all of us - are descended from the "identical ancestors" who lived only 2000 years ago:
    While we may not all be 'brothers,' the models suggest we are all hundredth cousins or so," said Joseph T. Chang, professor in the Department of Statistics at Yale University and senior author on the paper.

    Chang established the basis of this research in a previous publication with an intentionally simplified model that ignored such complexities as geography and migration. Those precise mathematical results showed that in a world obeying the simplified assumptions, the most recent common ancestor would have lived less than 1,000 years ago. He also introduced the "identical ancestors point," the most recent time -- less than 2,000 years ago in the simplified model -- when each person was an ancestor to all or ancestor to none of the people alive today.

    The current paper presents more realistic mathematical and computer models. It incorporates factors such as socially driven mating, physical barriers of geography and migration, and recorded historical events. Although such complexities make pure mathematical analysis difficult, it was possible to integrate them into an elaborate computer simulation model. The computer repeatedly simulated history under varying assumptions, tracking the lives, movements, and reproduction of all people who lived within the last 20,000 years.

    These more realistic models estimate that the most recent common ancestor of mankind lived as recently as about 3,000 years ago, and the identical ancestors point was as recent as several thousand years ago. The paper suggests, "No matter the languages we speak or the color of our skin, we share ancestors who planted rice on the banks of the Yangtze, who first domesticated horses on the steppes of the Ukraine, who hunted giant sloths in the forests of North and South America, and who labored to build the Great Pyramid of Khufu."
    This means that every person living is a physical descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!

    This is easy to understand. Basically, population dynamics is like a drop of ink in water. It doesn't take long until it is diffused throughout the whole.

    This absolutely destroys the dispensational theory based on the carnal bloodline of Abraham. I would be delighted if anyone would like to attempt to challenge this conclusion.

    All the very best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #57
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    The Promises that GOD made are unconditional, we can believe Him

    Because

    He swore by Himself to do it.

    To Abraham

    Genesis 13:16 "I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth, so that if anyone can number the dust of the earth, then your descendants can also be numbered."

    Genesis 15:5 "And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them " And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."

    Genesis 17:4 "As for me, behold, my covenant is with you. You will be the father of a multitude of nations."

    Genesis 17:5 "Neither will your name any more be called Abram, but your name will be Abraham; for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations."

    Genesis 17:6 "I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you. Kings will come out of you."

    To Isaac

    Genesis 17:19 "And Elohim said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shall call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him."

    Genesis 21:12 "And Elohim said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called."

    Genesis 22:17 "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

    Genesis 22:18 "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice."

    Genesis 24:60 "And they blessed Rebecca, and said to her, "Let our sister become the mother of thousands of ten thousands, and let your seed possess the gates of those who hate them."

    Genesis 26:3 "Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;"

    Genesis 26:4 "And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;"

    Genesis 26:24 "And appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the Elohim of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake."

    Genesis 32:12 "For You said, 'I shall certainly do good to you, and shall make your seed as the sand of the sea, which are too numerous to count.

    Jacob

    Genesis 28:14 "And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed."

    Genesis 35:11-12 "And Elohim said unto him, I am El Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land."

    Genesis 48:3-4 "And Jacob said unto Joseph, El Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me, And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession."

    Exodus 32:13 "Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Yourself, and said to them, 'I increase your seed like the stars of the heavens. And all this land that I have spoken of I give to your seed, and they shall inherit it forever.'"

    Deuteronomy 28:64 " will scatter you among all peoples, from the one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth; and there you shall serve other elohims, which you have not known, you nor your fathers, even wood and stone."

    Leviticus 26:33 "'And I shall scatter you among the gentiles and draw out a sword after you. And your land shall be desert and your cities ruins,"

    Psalms 106:27 "And to make their seed fall among the gentiles, And to scatter them in the lands."

    1Kings 14:15 "And Elohim shall strike Israel as a reed is shaken in the water: and he shall root up Israel out of this good land, which he gave to their fathers, and shall scatter them beyond the river: because they have made to themselves groves, to provoke ."

    Isaiah 26:15 "Thou hast increased the nation, O , thou hast increased the nation; thou art esteemed: thou hadst removed it far to all the ends of the earth."

    Isaiah 54:3 "For you shall break forth to the right and to the left, and your seed inherit the nations, and make the deserted cities inhabited."

    Isaiah 61:9 "And their seed shall be known among the gentiles, and their offspring in the midst of the peoples. All who see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed has blessed."

    Jeremiah 13:24 "And I will scatter them as stubble, which is carried away by the wind in the desert."

    Jeremiah 15:7 "And I will scatter them with a fan in the gates of the land: I have killed and destroyed my people, and yet they are not returned from their ways."

    Jeremiah 23:8 "...but, 'As lives who brought up and led the seed of the house of Israel out of the land of the north and from all the lands where I had driven them.' And they shall dwell on their own soil."

    Jeremiah 30:10 "'And you, do not fear, O Jacob My servant,' declares , 'nor be discouraged, O Israel. For look, I am saving you from afar, and your seed from the land of their captivity. And Jacob shall return, and have rest and be at ease, with no one to trouble him."

    Jeremiah 31:27 "Behold the days come, says : and I will sow the House of Israel and the House of Judah with the seed of men, and with the seed of beasts."

    Jeremiah 31:28 "And as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to throw down, and to scatter and destroy, and afflict: so will I watch over them, to build up, and to plant them, says ."

    Ezekiel 5:10 "Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers: and I will execute judgments in thee, and I will scatter thy whole remnant into every wind."

    Ezekiel 22:15 "And I will disperse thee in the nations, and will scatter thee among the countries, and I will put an end to thy uncleanness in thee."

    Nehemiah 1:8 "Remember the word that thou commanded to Moses thy servant, saying: If you shall transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations:"

    To Joseph

    Genesis 32:12 "For You said, 'I shall certainly do good to you, and shall make your seed as the sand of the sea, which are too numerous to count.'" [context points to Joseph]

    Genesis 37:8 "And his brothers said to him, "Shall you indeed reign over us? Shall you indeed rule over us?" So they hated him even more for his dreams and for his words."

    Genesis 48:4 "And said to me, Behold I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee, for an everlasting possession."

    Genesis 49:22 "Joseph is an offshoot of a fruit-bearing tree, an offshoot of a fruit-bearing tree by a fountain, his branches run over a wall."

    Genesis 49:23 "And the archers have bitterly grieved him, shot at him and hated him."

    Genesis 49:24 "But his bow remained in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob - from there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel -"

    Genesis 49:25 "from the El of your father who helps you, and by the Almighty who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies beneath, blessings of the breasts and of the womb."

    Genesis 49:26 "The blessings of your father have excelled the blessings of my ancestors, up to the limit of the everlasting hills. They are on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him who was separated from his brothers."

    Deuteronomy 33:13 "And of Joseph he said, "Blessed of is his land, with the choicest from the heavens, with the dew, and the deep lying beneath,"

    Deuteronomy 33:14 "with the choice fruits of the sun, with the choice yield of the months,"

    Deuteronomy 33:15 "with the finest of the ancient mountains, with the choicest of the everlasting hills,"

    Deuteronomy 33:16 "with the precious things of the earth and the fullness thereof, and the good pleasure of Him who dwelt in the bush. Let it come on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him who was separate from his brothers."

    Deuteronomy 33:17 "His splendor is like a first-born bull, and his horns are like the horns of the wild ox. With them he pushes the peoples to the ends of the earth. And they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh."

    Isaiah 54:3 "For you shall break forth to the right and to the left, and your seed inherit the nations, and make the deserted cities inhabited."

    To Ephraim

    Genesis 48:19 "And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become the fullness of the nations."

    Jeremiah 7:15 "And I shall cast you out of My presence, as I have cast out all your brothers, all the seed of Ephraim."

    Isaiah 7:8 "...and within threescore and five years, Ephraim shall cease to be a people:"

    Hosea 1:10 "Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which is not measured nor counted. And it shall be in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' they shall be called, 'You are the sons of the living El.'" [context points to Ephraim]

    Hosea 2:23 "And I shall sow her for Myself in the earth, and I shall have compassion on her who had not obtained compassion. And I shall say to those who were not My people, 'You are My people,' while they say, 'My Elohim!'" [context points to Ephraim]

    Isaiah 5:13 "Therefore my people have gone into exile, because they have no knowledge. And their esteemed men are starved, and their crowd dried up with thirst."

    Isaiah 5:26 "And He shall lift up a banner to the nations from afar, and shall whistle to them from the end of the earth. And see, they come with speed, swiftly!"

    Isaiah 11:12 "And He shall raise a banner for the nations, and gather the outcasts of Israel and assemble the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

    Isaiah 11:13 "And the envy of Ephraim shall turn aside, and the adversaries of Judah be cut off. Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah not trouble Ephraim."

    Isaiah 49:20 "The children of whom you were bereaved will yet say in your ears, 'The place is too cramped for me; Make room for me that I may live here." [context point to Latter Day return]

    Ezekiel 37:9 "He then said to me, "Prophesy to the spirit, prophesy, son of man, and you shall say to the spirit, 'Thus said the Master , "Come from the four winds, O spirit, and breathe on these slain, so that they live." ' "

    Ezekiel 37:10 "And I prophesied as He commanded me, and the spirit came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, a very great army."

    Ezekiel 37:11 "And He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are all the House of Israel. See, they say, 'Our bones are dry, our expectancy has perished, and we ourselves have been cut off!'"

    Ezekiel 37:12 "Therefore prophesy, and you shall say to them, 'Thus said the Master , "See, O My people, I am opening your graves, and shall bring you up from your graves, and shall bring you into the land of Israel."

    Ezekiel 37:13 "And you shall know that I am , when I open your graves, O My people, and bring you up from your graves."

    Ezekiel 37:14 "And I shall put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I shall settle you in your own land. And you shall know that I have spoken, and I have done it," declares .'"

    Ezekiel 37:15 "And the word of came to me, saying,"

    Ezekiel 37:16 "And you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it, 'For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.' Then take another stick and write on it, 'For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the House of Israel, his companions.'"

    Ezekiel 37:17 "Then bring them together for yourself into one stick, and they shall become one in your hand."

    Ezekiel 37:18 "And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, 'Won't you show us what you mean by these?'"

    Ezekiel 37:19 "say to them, 'Thus said the Master , "See, I am taking the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions. And I shall give them unto him, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick," and they shall be one in My hand." '"

    Ezekiel 37:20 "And the sticks on which you write shall be in your hand before their eyes."

    Ezekiel 37:21 "And speak to them, 'Thus said the Master , "See, I am taking the children of Israel from among the gentiles, wherever they have gone, and shall gather them from all around, and I shall bring them into their land."

    Ezekiel 37:22 "And I shall make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one sovereign shall be sovereign over them all, and let them no longer be two nations, and let them no longer be divided into two reigns."

    Ezekiel 37:23 "And they shall no longer defile themselves with their idols, nor with their disgusting matters, nor with any of their transgressions. And I shall save them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and I shall cleanse them. And they shall be My people, and I be their Elohim,"

    Ezekiel 37:24 "while David My servant is sovereign over them. And they shall all have one shepherd and walk in My right-rulings and guard My laws, and shall do them."

    <><><><><><><>

    Richard would like you to believe an article from ScienceDaily based on a model by a Yale Statistics Joseph T. Chang/ happens that Skull and Bones is a Yale club also 322 order of death

    Joseph T ching $

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    The Promises that GOD made are unconditional, we can believe Him
    Dude ... your long list of uninterpreted Scriptures is meaningless. The words must be read and understood in light of the whole Bible. It appears that you reject the many Scriptures that show how the promises and prophecies were fulfilled in the Church, which originated in the faithful remnant of Israel. For example, Christians are called "The Circumcision" and "The Seed of Abraham" and all unbelievers who happen to be carnal descendants of Abraham are called "Children of the Flesh" who are NOT the "Children of God."

    How long have you been studying Scripture? Why would you think that your list of uninterpreted verses would prove anything to anyone?


    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    Richard would like you to believe an article from ScienceDaily based on a model by a Yale Statistics Joseph T. Chang/ happens that Skull and Bones is a Yale club also 322 order of death

    Joseph T ching $
    Your style of "reasoning" is illogical and fallacious. The truth or falsehood of the article is not determined by the name of the author, the school he attended, or any non sequitur associations you derive from English Gematria.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #59
    Join Date
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    I'm listening to Yair Davidiy's video called "The Ten Tribes in the West Overview.

    He begins by asserting that the Ten Tribes would be found in the western nations, and then immediately contradicts himself by claiming that the Bible says the Ten Tribes "would be found in the ends of the earth" which includes places like Australia, New Zealand, America, the British Isles, Scandinavia and South Africa. By his standards, the "ends of the earth" would also include China, Japan, and Hawaii and every other place on the planet outside of Israel. So right off the bat, he appears to be a raving nut case babbling gibberish. And he is practically screaming into the camera.

    And then he contradicts himself again saying that the lost tribes "must" be found in "the best places of the earth" as if that is supposed to mean anything, let alone prove anything. In his system the "ends of the earth" include the entire globe outside of Israel, so he is not making any sense at all.

    Next he says they will be found in the "north and the west" of Israel! HA! Now I'm convinced he a certified nut-job! First he says there everywhere on the planet, then he says they are in the "salubrious" regions, and then he says the will be to the "north" and to the "west." And he's yelling the whole time. Why should anyone believe him?

    And then he reveals his total insanity when he says that "the lost tribes would be known as a lion and unicorn." Say what? There ain't no such animal as a "unicorn." That word only appears in the Bible because of a really stupid translation of "r'em." So he sees the Lion and Unicorn on the royal coat of arms and makes up this meaningless crap? And you believe him?

    And this is what I saw in only the first five minutes of his introductory video. I don't see any reason to continue watching. If you want to present his "best" evidence, I would be happy to refute it for you. You really need to clear your mind. Your head is filled with trash. English Gematria. Futurism. Date Setting. BritAm and the Ten Lost Tribes. It's all garbage.


    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    That is totally false. It is absurdly false. The ten tribes known as the "house of Israel" were driven out of the promised land in the 8th century BC. That's about 2700 years ago!

    Is there any record of any of those tribes existing as identifiable groups that avoided interbreeding with Gentiles? No. And even the "Jews" who have kept pretty tight breeding groups after being evicted from Israel in 70 AD have largely intermixed with Gentiles. This is easily proven by DNA.

    These are elementary facts that destroy the "two house" doctrine and the idea that the ten tribes have retained their genetic identity after 2700 years of intermixing. I have posted the evidence in another thread a couple years ago. I find it and show it to you when I get back from my afternoon walk with Rose.



    The Words of our Father in [Ezekiel 37] dispute your words. Also, the Words of our Saviour [Matthew 15:24] dispute your words.


    Right ... so let's think about this. An Israelite from the tribe of Asher, say, breeds with a Gentile woman. Their kids are half-Asher. Then their kids breed with a Gentile and the grand-kids are 1/4 Asher and 3/4 Gentile. After a hundred generations, nearly every "Gentile" can now trace their ancestry to that one person. That's how population dynamics works. We are all cousins. As soon as the DNA gets into the interbreeding communities, it quickly diffuses throughout the whole world. I'll show you the technical scientific articles when I get back from my walk.


    The words of Richard....OR.....the Words of our Lord? The valley of decision entraps many for it is the valley of the shadow of death.

    Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.


    Of course the verse has great meaning. It speaks of the things that the Spirit reveals to believers, that look like foolishness to non-believers. It has absolutely nothing to do with the foolish errors of date-setting.


    No...it has "absolutely nothing to do with" non-believers. Who does Satan want? Who does he go to war with? Who does he deceive?

    CHRISTIANS - BELIEVERS

    The "spiritually discerned" are misled believers. They follow their thoughts, their heart, man's words and not those of the Lord. They have not yet crucified their "old man." Consequently they don't see and hear what the Spirit teaches.




    I'm NOT trying to offend.

    You don't offend me. Your words are offensive but I don't pay attention. They are your choice to use or not use.


    But the truth is offensive in this case because you are in the habit of denying truth, and claiming that your wild interpretations of the Bible are not "interpretations" at all but rather "what the Bible says." That is a fundamental delusion. And it is extremely arrogant for you to assert that your own fallible ideas are really "just what the Bible says."

    I am truly and sincerely trying to help. I really do want what is best for you. And in my estimation, the most important thing for you to know is that you are under the delusion that you do not "interpret" the Bible.

    Well, gotta go!

    Chat more when we get back.

    All the best, my friend!

    Richard





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