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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    One of the fundamental errors found in Eddie Chumney's teachings is that he calls the Apostle Paul "Rav Sha'ul." This is contrary to the Bible. Paul himself signs his own letters with the name "Paul" and Jesus himself called him Paul when he appeared to him
    Acts 23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.
    This is just another example of how the Hebrew Roots Movement is fundamentally anti-biblical. They change things to suit their own teachings, and even reject whole books of Scripture if they don't like what they teach (e.g. Eddie Chumney publicly supports Monte Judah who rejects the book of Hebrews).

    A little leaven ...
    Rav Sha'ul.

    Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God

    Romans 11:13 For I speak to you gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the gentiles, I magnify mine office:

    1 Cor 1:1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

    Apostle occurs 19 times, Paul calls himself an Apostle 16 times of those 19

    Peter calls himself an Apostle two times

    Hebrews 1:1

    1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

    When Yeshua said call no man father, He meant in the ultimate sense.

    When He said call no man Rabbi, He meant in the ultimate sense

    YESHUA is The Apostle, The One in Paul who did the work, the One paul fought against when he persecuted believers, why he said he was the least of the apostles for doing so.

    Yet 16 times Paul an apostle, but not The Apostle

    <><><><><><><>

    as for Monte Judah

    i do believe he did say he thought the book of Hebrews shouldn't be in the canon of scripture , he couldn't be more wrong, and hopefully he knows that fully now, he teaches Hebrews as scripture now, so he must....He teaches on Paltalk on Erev Shabbat, you can type questions in the room and ask, he also has a teaching during the week / you can find the schedule @ Http://lionlamb.net
    Last edited by 144; 02-07-2011 at 11:38 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    Rav Sha'ul.

    Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God

    Romans 11:13 For I speak to you gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the gentiles, I magnify mine office:

    1 Cor 1:1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

    Apostle occurs 19 times, Paul calls himself an Apostle 16 times of those 19

    Peter calls himself an Apostle two times

    Hebrews 1:1

    1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

    When Yeshua said call no man father, He meant in the ultimate sense.

    When He said call no man Rabbi, He meant in the ultimate sense

    YESHUA is The Apostle, The One in Paul who did the work, the One paul fought against when he persecuted believers, why he said he was the least of the apostles for doing so.

    Yet 16 times Paul an apostle, but not The Apostle
    How could you miss my point? I didn't say there was any problem calling Paul an Apostle! And I said nothing about the problem being the term "Rav" - though it is unbiblical in as much as Scripture never uses that term for Paul. My point was that the problem is the Hebrew Roots movement calls him "Rav Saul." He never used that name in any of his NT letters and Christ himself called him "Paul." It's just another example of how the Hebrew Roots movement makes up stuff and presents itself as something it is not - that is, HEBREW. The HebRoots movement is filled with every variety of error - Torah keepers who don't know the first thing of Torah or Gospel, etc. etc. etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post

    as for Monte Judah

    i do believe he did say he thought the book of Hebrews shouldn't be in the canon of scripture , he couldn't be more wrong, and hopefully he knows that fully now, he teaches Hebrews as scripture now, so he must....He teaches on Paltalk on Erev Shabbat, you can type questions in the room and ask, he also has a teaching during the week / you can find the schedule @ Http://lionlamb.net
    I'm glad we agree about Monte Judah's error regarding the book of Hebrews. The fact that he could still be accepted as teacher amongst any Hebrew Roots people indicates the depth of corruption in the whole movement. The fact that Eddie Chumney actively promotes Monte's teachings indicates his understanding of Scripture is fundamentally flawed.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    Are you alluding to 7/8/2008 the date you accused me of setting ?
    I made no specific "accusation" other than general "date-setting" which is evident from your posts. E.g. you promote the explicitly date-setting website danielstimeline.com. And if I recall correctly, you said something about the Tribulation starting in Sept 2009 (or something like that - the exact date doesn't matter since it's wrong anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    I hate to do this

    the two people who set that date are Stephen, maybe the same Stephen who has the stars by his posts on your site.

    He did not like me then, and still doesn't 2/2008 was the first time i ever considered English Gematria and knew nothing of possible Hebrew connections

    His e-mail Stephen <wilkste@aol.com>;
    The "five stars" mean nothing. Individual members can rate the threads anyway they want.

    And neither does the fact that a post appears on my site indicate any kind of "agreement" on my part with the content, as should be clear by my responses to folks pushing English Gematria and Date-Setting. I am very liberal with my posting policies - folks generally have to be abusive or uncooperative to be banned.

    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    The second person who set that date, not sure which one of them it was

    Ross Verba / youngest offensive lineman to start in a Superbowl # 78

    ross verba <rossverba33@yahoo.com>;
    Again, I don't care about the specific dates because they are all wrong. Each and every one of them. Folks have been setting dates for nearly 2000 years, and they have always been wrong wrong wrong. With a perfectly consistent 2000 year long record of 100% ERROR I find it impossible to comprehend how anyone could ignore such a reality and believe that their "brand new date" is correct. It's just plain nuts.

    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    Thanks to them i was introduced into English Gematria, and thanks to you Richard for the good work you did putting this site together, hard to believe He could use a preterist

    Baruch HaShem
    Thanks for the good words. I am glad you found the site helpful. But I can assure that you would not find it "hard to believe" that God would use a Preterist if you believed what the Bible actually teaches and confirms with a great body of witnesses. The plain meaning of the plain text is Preterist. It's fine if you want to be a Futurist and deny that the Bible "really" means what it says, but you cannot deny what it actually says without removing yourself from rational discourse.

    Finally, I would be very interested to know what makes you think English Gematria has any validity. Do you believe it teaches that Jesus(74) is Lucifer(74)? I have given you all the evidence you need to know that there is no validity to English Gematria. You did not refute my evidence.

    Again, I am very pleased that you have chosen to discuss your understanding of the Bible.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #44
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I made no specific "accusation" other than general "date-setting" which is evident from your posts. E.g. you promote the explicitly date-setting website danielstimeline.com. And if I recall correctly, you said something about the Tribulation starting in Sept 2009 (or something like that - the exact date doesn't matter since it's wrong anyway).
    I missed out on that date, was someone saying the tribulation was going to start in Sept of 2009,

    you would have to show me that one, as i am not interested in looking it up myself, and have never heard of it until now.

    <><><><><><> Strong # 3999 πεντακις pentakis {pen-tak-ece'} multiplicative adverb from 4002;; adv AV - five times 1; 1 1) five times
    Gematria 666


    lucifer says five times I will do this or that, to be like the Most High, one time during that proclamation of self in the scriptures, he is called lucifer 74, men are called elohiyms, GOD was mocking them, because the gods that did not create the heavens and the earth will perish.

    so, give us some comparable list of phrases by the devil , start with 153 phrases, then something like Yeshua said with numbers in Mark 4:8 on this thread

    12 How art thou fallen from heaven, o lucifer 74, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.

    you might also want to consider Sepher Yetzirah

    Genesis fourteen - eight 231 Revelation six - two 231

    October ninth two thousand nine 345

    345 th vs. Genesis 14:8 And "there went out " "the king of sodom", and "the king of gomorrah", and "the king of admah", and "the king of zeboiim ", and "the king of bela", "the same is" zoar, and "they joined battle "with them in""the vale of siddim. 1665 - 3123

    white 65 horse 65 av nine 65

    total gematria of president's remarks @ the acceptance of the nobel peace prize = 231662

    231662 / 31102 = 7.44845990611536:2

    31102 x 7 = 217714

    231662 - 217714 = 13948th vs. Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and "the rulers take counsel together 350" "against the LORD 153", and "against HIS Anointed ", saying > 1176 <> 1972

    1)Your Majesties Your Royal Highnesses , distinguished members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee 290, citizens of America 176, and 'citizens of the world 231 = 1403

    october ninth 143 the president 143

    Sixty four weeks 220

    one year two2 months twenty20 two2 days = 444

    10/09/2009 until 12-31-2010 = 448 days

    12/31/2010 tornado kills 3 in Arkansas
    .
    In Arkansas, Gerald Wilson, 88, and his wife, Mamie, 78, died in their home and Dick Murray, 78, died after being caught by the storm while milking cows, Washington County Sheriff Tim Helder said

    448th vs. Gen 18:23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 787 -2339

    gerald wilson,139 age 88 mamie wilson,133 age 78 dick murray,123 age 78
    washington county sheriff tim helder,393

    Sepher Yetzirah - Oneg 231 123 Nega

    Tevet twenty four = 239 The tenth month of the biblical year on the Hebrew calendar. {12/31/2010 = Tevet 24}

    one time lucifer is found in scripture, maybe God allowed it for the purpose of people who's names = 163 or 135 so they will not worry because they match something evil/ Just like their Master, who was accused of being a deceiver / so you believe the 153 list just happened by coincidence, and all these Astonishing connections with 10/09/2009 and the Feast Days this year, He just allowed His Word, His Lively Oracles to fool us like this? and He also put dinosaur bones in the ground so people would believe in evolution, and put the stars billions of light years away, so we would believe the universe is ancient, because it took that long for their light to reach earth, That He didn't do as He said when He created the Sun Moon and Stars for Appointed times and for Signs, but first He needed to wait first for the Light to get here?

    yeah right, and richard mcgough can not be wrong

    your graph proves nothing, you limit the Almighty to your understanding, and test how HE could have encoded His Word by that understanding

    by richard mcgough my graph proves GOD could not have encoded His Word in English/ have you seen His graphs?

    i richard mcgoug declare it can not be done!

    why ? because

    i richard mcgough say so

    and everything was fulfilled in 70 A.D

    Ecclesiastes 1:9
    The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done:

    3:15
    That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
    Last edited by 144; 02-08-2011 at 03:44 AM.

  5. #45
    Good morning,

    Please notice that in your above post...which is #44, it was done at 1:44 by poster 144.

    Sort of a seal of approval I think.

    .

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Yes, you did that implicitly when you said that it was imperative that folks know about the "two houses" because the two-house doctrine, according to Eddie Chumney (who is being promoted by 144 in this thread) states that the "house of Israel" is "Christianity" while the "house of Judah" is Judaism (source):


    I don't know anyone of that name. I do know about the two houses but I learned it from the Master.




    Chumney explicitly defines Gentiles as "Christianity." But he also defines them as "Israel" so he really is just another nutcase making up his own crazy theories. If you think he is wrong on this point, then GREAT! I encourage to take that as a clue and reject all the crap he has made up and passed off as "Biblical."


    That is false. By the first century, the term "Jew" came to mean anyone abiding by the Mosaic Covenant, regardless of tribal affiliation. There were people of living in Israel at the time of Christ who were not of the "House of Judah." The entire theory about the two houses is totally wrong and without any foundation in the Bible whatsoever. There are no "lost tribes" of Israel hiding out somewhere because they have been absorbed by interbreeding into the general so-called "Gentile" population of the planet. Like a drop of ink in an ocean, they are now permanently gone. The genetic "ink" can not be unmixed.


    Then you disagree with our Lord???



    Paul the Jew was also a Christian.

    Indeed he was. Is someone arguing that fact?



    Those verses do not justify date setting in any way at all. And no, I do not say that Christ was talking only about 70 AD. He was talking about the entire "last days" period that spanned his ministry to 70 AD. In Matthew's parallel of his passage, be spoke of the sign of Jonah which was his death and resurrection:
    Matthew 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
    The mystery to me is how any one who knows anything about the Bible could be so ignorant of the "Big Picture" that culminated in 70 AD. It is the greatest evidence of Scripture and you fight against it.

    Date setting is an absolute mockery of God and the Bible. Date setters make up their own elaborate an convoluted theories and mislead people about the Bible and they are proven wrong every time. This has been going on for nearly two thousand years. So the world looks and says "LOOK AT THOSE FOOLS - it's no wonder they believe in Jesus" and we see that God is blasphemed by date-setters.


    Yes, many see it as foolish.

    1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



    .

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post

    Then you disagree with our Lord???



    Yes, many see it as foolish.
    1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    .
    Yes indeed! Many see it as foolish, and they are right, because it is foolish...

    There has never in the history of the Church been even "1" correct prediction concerning the "coming of Christ", or any other date that's been set trying to predict some future prophetic fulfillment....

    Blessings,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ram
    Chumney explicitly defines Gentiles as "Christianity." But he also defines them as "Israel" so he really is just another nutcase making up his own crazy theories. If you think he is wrong on this point, then GREAT! I encourage to take that as a clue and reject all the crap he has made up and passed off as "Biblical."

    That is false. By the first century, the term "Jew" came to mean anyone abiding by the Mosaic Covenant, regardless of tribal affiliation. There were people of living in Israel at the time of Christ who were not of the "House of Judah." The entire theory about the two houses is totally wrong and without any foundation in the Bible whatsoever. There are no "lost tribes" of Israel hiding out somewhere because they have been absorbed by interbreeding into the general so-called "Gentile" population of the planet. Like a drop of ink in an ocean, they are now permanently gone. The genetic "ink" can not be unmixed.
    Then you disagree with our Lord???
    No. Do you?

    Why do you not respond to the facts that I presented? There cannot be any intact remnants of the "ten tribes" hiding out amongst the Gentiles because they would breed with them, and after one or two hundred generations their genes would be so deeply mixed with the gene pool of the general population that no particular individual would be any more a "descendant" of the "ten tribes" than anyone else.

    The whole concept of "ten tribes" somehow retaining their "secret identity" while interbreeding with Gentiles for over 2000 years is logically impossible. Do you understand this?

    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    Date setting is an absolute mockery of God and the Bible. Date setters make up their own elaborate an convoluted theories and mislead people about the Bible and they are proven wrong every time. This has been going on for nearly two thousand years. So the world looks and says "LOOK AT THOSE FOOLS - it's no wonder they believe in Jesus" and we see that God is blasphemed by date-setters.
    Yes, many see it as foolish.
    1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    Wow - that is a perfect example of your chronic abuse of Scripture. That verse is talking about the apparent "foolishness" of the the things of God that are not understood by the natural man. It is not talking about the STUPID FOOLISHNESS of persisting in the same ERROR for 2000 years!

    I get the impression that you don't really care at all about the true meaning of Scripture in context. You just grab words out of context and place them in your own context to make them say something that they do not really say. Case in point, I explained why date-setting is foolishness in the sense of being stupidly and persistently wrong, and you countered with a verse that has nothing to do with that kind of foolishness. We know you are wrong because the 2000 year record of 100% Futurist error is most definitely not an example of "the things of God" that only "appear" foolish to the "natural man."

    Your chronic abuse of Scripture contradicts your pious claims about learning from the "Master" and all that. If I know anything, I know the "Master" has not been teaching you to abuse the Bible the way you do. And claiming that your own private idiosyncratic interpretations come straight from God is extremely arrogant. Indeed, is it not blasphemous to attribute false statements to God?

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    No. Do you?

    Why do you not respond to the facts that I presented? There cannot be any intact remnants of the "ten tribes" hiding out amongst the Gentiles because they would breed with them, and after one or two hundred generations their genes would be so deeply mixed with the gene pool of the general population that no particular individual would be any more a "descendant" of the "ten tribes" than anyone else.


    All the mixing is pretty much in present time. Before the United States of America, ethnic groups stayed within ethnic groups and it is only in the last few years that races have mixed...at least to the extent now seen.


    The whole concept of "ten tribes" somehow retaining their "secret identity" while interbreeding with Gentiles for over 2000 years is logically impossible. Do you understand this?

    I don't see it as "secret identity," just a forgotten identity. Interestingly, Manasseh means forgetful.


    Wow - that is a perfect example of your chronic abuse of Scripture. That verse is talking about the apparent "foolishness" of the the things of God that are not understood by the natural man. It is not talking about the STUPID FOOLISHNESS of persisting in the same ERROR for 2000 years!

    I get the impression that you don't really care at all about the true meaning of Scripture in context. You just grab words out of context and place them in your own context to make them say something that they do not really say. Case in point, I explained why date-setting is foolishness in the sense of being stupidly and persistently wrong, and you countered with a verse that has nothing to do with that kind of foolishness. We know you are wrong because the 2000 year record of 100% Futurist error is most definitely not an example of "the things of God" that only "appear" foolish to the "natural man."


    The verse I countered with held great meaning. Please read it again.


    Your chronic abuse of Scripture contradicts your pious claims about learning from the "Master" and all that. If I know anything, I know the "Master" has not been teaching you to abuse the Bible the way you do. And claiming that your own private idiosyncratic interpretations come straight from God is extremely arrogant. Indeed, is it not blasphemous to attribute false statements to God?

    All the best,

    Richard


    Try as you might...I am not offended. But, thank you for "All the best."



    Matthew 11:6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in Me.

    John 16:1-3 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor Me.



    .

  10. #50
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    Strong # 3999 πεντακις pentakis {pen-tak-ece'} multiplicative adverb from 4002;; adv AV - five times 1; 1 1) five times

    Gematria 666

    multiplicative adverb = 224

    20191st vs. 1244th vs. Jeremiah 50:24

    I Have Laid a snare for thee 206
    and 19
    thou art also taken 201 ... נלכדת 504 five hundred four 176 O babylon 86
    and 19
    thou wast not aware 224thou art found 163 ... נמצאת 581 five hundred eighty one 224
    and 19
    also caught 107 + because 163
    thou hast striven 219
    against the LORD 153 = 1472 -5315

    In the day 86 This day 86 Tishri twenty one 224 = 10/09/2009 = the final sealing of Judgment

    the nobel peace prize for 224

    Genesis fourteen - eight 231 Revelation six - two 231

    October ninth two thousand nine 345

    345th vs. Genesis 14:8 And "there went out " "the king of sodom", and "the king of gomorrah", and "the king of admah", and "the king of zeboiim ", and "the king of bela", "the same is" zoar, and "they joined battle "with them in""the vale of siddim. 1665 - 3123

    white 65 horse 65 av nine = 65 / b-day obama 65 216th day of year 6x6x6

    total gematria of president's remarks @ the acceptance of the nobel peace prize = 23166:2

    231662 / 31102 = 7.44845990611536:2

    31102 x 7 = 217714

    231662 - 217714 = 13948th vs. Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and "the rulers take counsel together 350" "against the LORD 153", and "against HIS Anointed 189 ", saying > 1176 <> 1972

    one hundred eighty nine 224

    1)Your Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses , distinguished members 223 of the Norwegian Nobel Committee, citizens of America 176, and 'citizens of the world 231 = 1403

    october ninth 143 the president 143

    sixteen hundred pennsylvania = 322 + skull and bones Joel 3:2

    king of babylon 133 whitehouse 133 roadmap to peace 133 Parted My Land 133

    george bush 107 1 & 2

    barack hussein obama 163 > soetoro 107

    One hundred sixty three 261 163 is the first number spelled out that equals 261
    the united states of america 261

    20601 bohemian grove = 134 <> a bow and a crown 134

    the atomic bomb 126

    tinian island 126

    The grove is particularly famous for a Manhattan Project planning meeting that took place there in September 1942, which subsequently led to the atomic bomb.

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