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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    The "two house" doctrine which states that Gentile Christians are "really" Ephraim and that Jews are "really" all of the tribe of Judah is false. It's just another modern man-made speculation just like the "pre-tribulation rapture" theory.

    Did I mention Gentiles?

    Jews are Judah...Jew-dah...Judah. There is presently the house of Israel and the house of Judah. All are Israel but not all are Jews.


    Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


    He found us, we carry His name...Christ/Christian.



    If anything is "imperative" for Christians to know it is what is actually written in the Bible, and the common sense interpretation of it. Nothing posted here by 144 fits either of those criteria. He posts random collections of words, numbers, events, and what-not, and does not even bother to attempt any kind of explanation.

    Perhaps it isn't for some?


    Date setting is wrong. It has been going on for nearly two thousand years and it always fails. This is especially obvious in recent times since folks have been making more and more false predictions.

    Date setting is wrong. It makes a mockery of Christianity.

    Richard


    A mockery? What does He tell us?

    Luke 12:2-3 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

    12:9-12 But he that denieth Me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

    12:35-40 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when He will return from the wedding; that when He cometh and knocketh, they may open unto Him immediately. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when He cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

    12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?


    Look at that...there's that phrase "this time" again. You probably think it meant 70AD.



    .

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    Did I mention Gentiles?
    Yes, you did that implicitly when you said that it was imperative that folks know about the "two houses" because the two-house doctrine, according to Eddie Chumney (who is being promoted by 144 in this thread) states that the "house of Israel" is "Christianity" while the "house of Judah" is Judaism (source):

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Chumney
    Who are the two houses of Israel? Historically, they were the Northern Kingdom (house of Israel) and the Southern Kingdom (house of Judah). Today, the two houses of the G-d of Israel are known by the more common names of Christianity (house of Israel) and Judaism (house of Judah). Both Christianity (house of Israel) and Judaism (house of Judah) worship the G-d of Israel. However, they have historically disagreed with the method of expressing true Biblical worship to the G-d of Israel. These disagreements have divided the children of the G-d of Israel into two houses of worship of the G-d of Israel. Why are the two houses of Israel (Christianity and Judaism) divided?

    ....

    Allegorically speaking, the family (mishpochah) of the G-d of Israel is likened to an olive tree. In Jeremiah (Yermiyahu) 11:16-17 it is written:

    "The Lord called thy name. A green olive tree … For the Lord of hosts, that planted thee … the house of Israel AND of the house of Judah …"

    The house of Judah (Judaism) is the root and natural branches of the olive tree of the G-d of Israel. The house of Israel (Christianity) is GRAFTED into this olive tree. In Romans 11:13, 17 it is written:

    "For I speak to you Gentiles [Christianity]… and thou, being a wild olive tree, wast grafted in among them [the natural root of the house of Judah]…"
    Chumney explicitly defines Gentiles as "Christianity." But he also defines them as "Israel" so he really is just another nutcase making up his own crazy theories. If you think he is wrong on this point, then GREAT! I encourage to take that as a clue and reject all the crap he has made up and passed off as "Biblical."

    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    Jews are Judah...Jew-dah...Judah. There is presently the house of Israel and the house of Judah. All are Israel but not all are Jews.
    That is false. By the first century, the term "Jew" came to mean anyone abiding by the Mosaic Covenant, regardless of tribal affiliation. There were people of living in Israel at the time of Christ who were not of the "House of Judah." The entire theory about the two houses is totally wrong and without any foundation in the Bible whatsoever. There are no "lost tribes" of Israel hiding out somewhere because they have been absorbed by interbreeding into the general so-called "Gentile" population of the planet. Like a drop of ink in an ocean, they are now permanently gone. The genetic "ink" can not be unmixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    He found us, we carry His name...Christ/Christian.
    Paul the Jew was also a Christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    Date setting is wrong. It has been going on for nearly two thousand years and it always fails. This is especially obvious in recent times since folks have been making more and more false predictions.

    Date setting is wrong. It makes a mockery of Christianity.

    Richard
    A mockery? What does He tell us?
    Luke 12:2-3 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

    12:9-12 But he that denieth Me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

    12:35-40 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when He will return from the wedding; that when He cometh and knocketh, they may open unto Him immediately. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when He cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

    12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
    Look at that...there's that phrase "this time" again. You probably think it meant 70AD.
    Those verses do not justify date setting in any way at all. And no, I do not say that Christ was talking only about 70 AD. He was talking about the entire "last days" period that spanned his ministry to 70 AD. In Matthew's parallel of his passage, be spoke of the sign of Jonah which was his death and resurrection:
    Matthew 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
    The mystery to me is how any one who knows anything about the Bible could be so ignorant of the "Big Picture" that culminated in 70 AD. It is the greatest evidence of Scripture and you fight against it.

    Date setting is an absolute mockery of God and the Bible. Date setters make up their own elaborate an convoluted theories and mislead people about the Bible and they are proven wrong every time. This has been going on for nearly two thousand years. So the world looks and says "LOOK AT THOSE FOOLS - it's no wonder they believe in Jesus" and we see that God is blasphemed by date-setters.
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  3. #33
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    The Hebrew Roots Movement is entirely unbiblical

    The Hebrew Roots Movement is so outrageously unbiblical that one of its primary teachers, Monte Judah, has openly declared that the Book of Hebrews should not be in the Bible!

    Most false teachers are content to merely twist the words of Scripture to form their doctrinal pretzels. But not Monte Judah. He's the "real deal" - he just rips out any text he can't force to fit his false doctrines.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    I moved this thread here to the "Delusions, UFOs, and Conspiracy Theories" forum because it is promoting ridiculous ideas like English Gematria, Date Setting, erroneous Hebrew Roots teachers and doctrines, and so on. It's a real smorgasbord of nuttiness, and the author (144) does not appear interested in actually supporting his ideas with any structured arguments, or even basic explanations. Just page after page of seemingly schizophrenic associations between random numbers, words, dates, natural catastrophes, political leaders, and the kitchen sink.
    Luke 21:14-16 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
    Why did you quote that verse? It has nothing to do with my post. I simply spoke the truth about the irrationality of his posts.

    Where are these "words of wisdom" that he is supposed to be speaking? I have seen none. On the contrary, he propagates false doctrines and supports false teachers who explicitly reject the Bible.
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  5. #35
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    Cult leader Eddie Chumney teaches his own stupid made-up religion!

    Ephraimites or Ephra I am nots?

    Cleveland Jewish News/October 17, 2005
    By Stephanie Garber


    Imagine the outrage if a practicing Jew were to don a Roman collar, assume the title 'priest,' and open his own 'Catholic church,' interpreting its holidays and symbols however he liked, says Rabbi Tovia Singer, talk-show host, and founder and national director of Outreach Judaism.
    But that is exactly what 'Hebraic Roots' adherents (also known as 'Israelites' or 'Ephraimites,' among other names) do. These groups are led by self-taught individuals who use the title 'rabbi' and/or 'congregational leader,' as well as 'synagogue' (complete with Hebrew names like Beth HaKavod) for their churches.

    These gentiles in Jewish clothing actually claim to be the 'true Israelites' n direct, biological descendants of the lost tribe of Ephraim. Of course there are no DNA or blood tests to confirm this unsubstantiated claim.
    Angus Wootten, one of the movement’s grandaddies, explains in his book Restoring Israel’s Kingdom how someone can find out if he or she is a biological member of the tribe of Ephraim: You simply 'have a ‘conviction,’ a knowing that we know.'

    While this David Koresh-sounding theology appears ridiculous to both Jews and the vast majority of Christians, the sobering fact is that their numbers are growing constantly. From their websites and links, it would appear there are about 30 Ephraim-style groups in Ohio alone, although it’s hard to get an exact count because they use so many names n Ephraimites, Hebraic Roots Christians, Lost Tribes, Northern Kingdom, Israelites, House of Israel, Messianic Christians, and House of Joseph.

    Rabbi Melvin Granatstein of Green Road Synagogue says there are all kinds of ersatz groups like these. 'Catholics have to follow certain scriptural interpretation, but Protestants can pick up a Bible and interpret on their own,' he explains. 'Some (Protestants) are very respectable, but others just focus on the parts of scripture they like, and the Bible can have very diverse interpretations.'

    Saying you’re from a lost tribe has a certain 'romantic appeal,' continues Granatstein. 'The neat thing about claiming to be part of a lost tribe is, if it’s lost, who’s going to be able to prove me wrong?'

    While Hebraic Rooters claim to 'unite Jews and Christians' as their ultimate goal, in reality, they seem to hold both groups in disdain. Jews seem to think they are 'Cokes' (the real thing), says Wootten in his book Restoring. He questions Jewish ancestral lines '(that have) been affected by conversions, adoptions and extramarital sex (fornication, adultery or rape).' He seems to have particular disdain for the Orthodox, labeling them, among other things, as mean-spirited rock-throwers. Christians fare no better under Wootten’s scathing pen: They are guilty of 'Esau’s folly' n throwing away their birthright as the 'biological heirs of the tribe of Ephraim.'

    Tired of being 'second-class citizens,' these self-proclaimed 'Ephraimites' demand that Jews 'recognize' them as 'Israelites' n and that would include rights to the Middle East real estate.
    In 1948, '... instead of naming this Jewish state ‘Judah’ ... they named it Israel,' Wooten writes. 'Now, in one fell swoop, the Jews grabbed the title back.' Wootten is appalled that these Jews had the chutzpah to name their country 'Israel' n when those of his 'tribe' knew it was partially theirs!

    Eddie Chumney, who was a computer specialist before going full-time into 'the ministry' almost a decade ago, heads a 'synagogue' in Stark County; his members, he claims, come from Tuscarawas, Carrol, Stark, Wayne, Summit and Cuyahoga counties. Chumney also founded 'Hebraic Roots International,' which claims a database network of subscribers in all 50 states and in 55 foreign countries. He travels extensively, both nationally and internationally, at the invitation of gentile groups who want to hear about their 'lost (but now found!) heritage.'

    Raised Protestant, Chumney says he was 'awakened' to what the New Testament 'really' teaches after studying Jewish texts and taking Torah classes from a Reform rabbi in Akron. Chumney accuses Jews of 'blindness' for not acknowledging their 'Northern Kingdom' relatives. He threatens that peace will only come to Israel when they do so. He also says that Christians are 'drunkards like Ephraim,' who have been lied to over the millennia n mostly because of the Catholic Church n as to what Jesus really taught.

    The gospel according to Chumney is that Jesus came to 'unite the two kingdoms' (i.e., Jews and 'Israelites') and teach the 'Israelites' (gentile Christians) to observe Jewish law. Of course, this is contrary to halachah (Jewish law), which actually says gentiles are forbidden to observe Shabbat, a doctrine which Chumney asserts is false and put forth by 'the rabbis.' It’s a title he occasionally uses himself. (See sidebar, p. 29.)
    While Chumney alludes to both Jewish texts and the New Testament scriptures, mixing doctrines and beliefs from both, he chafes at the accusation that he has made up his own religion. He simply wants 'the house of Judah' to recognize 'the house of Joseph' (his house) and for the latter to recognize Jesus’s 'true' mission 'foreshadowed in the Torah when those who received the law at Mt. Sinai were the only ones who escaped Egypt because they had put the blood on their doorposts.'

    Chumney asserts that 'obviously, there’s not going to be paper documentation' for the Ephraimite/Northern Kingdom/Lost Tribe/ House of Joseph connection. The only 'proof,' it seems, is that one adheres to Chumney’s instruction.

    The Chumney/Wootten type of teaching is mushrooming. Rick Ross, an internationally-recognized cult expert, and a former Clevelander, calls it 'a growing phenomenon in the United States.'

    Ross 'runs into these groups all the time,' but says the 'Hebraic Roots' movement is really just an old teaching with a facelift. He points out that the Worldwide Church of God, founded by Herbert Armstrong in 1934, taught that Anglo-Saxons are direct descendants of the 10 lost tribes of Israel, and that church viewed that teaching as the key, unlocking a true understanding of biblical prophecy. At its peak, there were 65,000 Armstrongists, says Ross.

    'These groups are very misleading and very disingenuous,' he cautions. 'They have an affinity for Jewish holidays and symbols but have no Jewish background whatsoever,' says Ross. 'It really becomes a shanda (shame), as my grandmother would say, when they start parading around with Torah scrolls and trotting out Jewish symbols.'

    Actually, says Ross, there is a psychological component as to why certain types of people are attracted to these types of groups. 'It gives them a sense of elite identity. In fact, there is a Yiddish phrase that sums it up perfectly: kol mamzer melech n Every bastard wants to be a king.'
    Will the real rabbi please stand up?

    'Anyone can invent his own religion,' says Tovia Singer, founder and director of Outreach Judaism. 'But the reason these movements are dangerous is that they don’t respect boundaries. They are not Jewish at all, and (its leaders and adherents) have no rabbinic background whatsoever; they are simply playing with Jewish beliefs and rituals.'
    Certainly one of the ways the Hebraic Rooters play with Judaism is with their cavalier use of the title 'rabbi.' For example, in the advertisement for Eddie Chumney’s '2005 Midwest Feast of Tabernacles' event to be held in Ohio next month, three of the four speakers are listed as rabbis, although not one of them has any rabbinic training at all.

    If, as the former computer specialist-turned-self-proclaimed-minister says, people will be coming from as far as Florida to attend the weeklong event, they will paying to attend something where the rabbis are not rabbis at all, and the Succot experience is certainly not going to be a very 'Jewish' one.

    If someone were to call him or herself an attorney or physician and attempt to practice as such, that individual would be thrown in jail, says Rabbi Singer. Using the title 'rabbi' won’t get someone thrown in jail, but it is consumer fraud, he adds.


    'The parameters of Jewish identity exclusively and historically lay within the Jewish community,' says cult expert Rick Ross. 'Unless you recognize the parameters of a religion’s identity, you are going down a slippery slope and opening the doors to anything and everything, such as Catholics for Krishna, Mormons for Mohammed, Baptists for Buddha.'
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  6. #36
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    search: Tovia Singer anti - missionary / Eddie Chumney teaching on God' Learning Channel 88 1/2 hour programs Here

    have an accusation, where does he error in any of these half hour teachings ?

    i have been listening to his Live 5 minute update on Paltalk most every Shabbat / for a few years now and have never heard anyone call him a rabbi or any title for that matter...i think years ago maybe he did on a book cover, But for anyone to use as their main source the #1 anti -missionary against the gospel going to the House of Judah, tovia singer

    that says it all by itself!

    Hosea 5:15 I will go and return to My Place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek My Face: "in their affliction 178" they will seek Me early.

    First it must be asked when did YHWH leave His Place ?

    Phil 2:7 But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a Servant

    And what is the offense of Judah, of Ephraim? Judah Zech 12:10 <> Ephraim/ Christianity Hosea 8:12

    1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for He hath torn, and He will heal us; He hath smitten, and He will bind us up.

    Hosea 6:2
    After two days HE will revive us: in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight.

    The exact phrase " The Day of the LORD" occurs 16 times 14 of those verses are in the Tanakh, and two times in the Brit Hadashah...the prophets speak more about what is happening NOW than any other generation.

    Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the LORD's Day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

    How long of a timespan was John shown ?

    Rev 20: 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    He was given a message for the Seven Churches, then John was taken into the period of time the Prophets call the Day of YHWH

    All biblical days begin at sunset, the night, the Seventh Day propetically begins as a time of deep darkness, and then it is at Midnight when the call is made to go out and meet the Bridegroom...In the affliction -Midnight-Jacob's trouble to return to the Land

    believers are told specifically not to be ignorant in this next verse, yet most still are not aware.

    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which 107 the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

    How long is the Day of the LORD ? a thousand years, duh

    When He returns in Glory He shall give the overcomers the morning star = the Light part of the Seventh Day / the Messianic Era, When He shall reign and rule over the whole earth as Messiah benDavid, KING YESHUA from Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:1-5

    so we can now easily see that HE said that He would return to His Place for Two days / 2,000 years and in the Affliction/Tribulation is when Judah and Ephraim/Christianity will acknowledge their offenses

    unless those days are shortened / both

    Then at the end of the Day of the LORD, after the thousand year reign, that is when things melt and He makes all things New

    Baruch YESHUA, King of Yisra'EL
    Last edited by 144; 02-07-2011 at 09:13 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    search: Tovia Singer anti - missionary / Eddie Chumney teaching on God' Learning Channel 88 1/2 hour programs Here

    have an accusation, where does he error in any of these half hour teachings ?

    i have been listening to his Live 5 minute update on Paltalk most every Shabbat / for a few years now and have never heard anyone call him a rabbi or any title for that matter...i think years ago maybe he did on a book cover, But for anyone to use as their main source the #1 anti -missionary against the gospel going to the House of Judah, tovia singer

    that says it all by itself!
    I'm glad to see you finally decided to break your silence and speak with words rather than mute and meaningless uninterpreted random associations.

    I did not use Tovia Singer as a "main source" for anything. He just happened to be quoted in the article. I did not base any conclusion on what he said. Your comment is irrelevant.

    Now as for Chumney's teachings: his entire "two house" theory is false and unbiblical. And it also is absurd to believe that there are descendants of the "ten tribes" of Israel that could be distinguished from "Gentiles." Even God could not distinguish them because the do not exist ... unless you believe that the entire population of the planet is now to be identified as the "ten tribes." This is a simple consequence of hundreds of generations of randomly interbreeding with Gentiles. Now almost every person on the planet can trace their ancestry to a physical son of Abraham.

    Furthermore, he has a page on his website supporting the false teacher and false prophet Monte Judah who explicitly denies Scripture, saying the book of Hebrews should not be in the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    The exact phrase " The Day of the LORD" occurs 16 times 14 of those verses are in the Tanakh, and two times in the Brit Hadashah...the prophets speak more about what is happening NOW than any other generation.
    That is ludicrous in the extreme. The Bible plainly states that the "end times" and the "last days" and the "end of the age" all happened in the first century. False teachers and the folks fooled by them have always believed that their own day was the "end of the age." Folks believed this ten years ago, 20 years ago, 50 years ago, 200 years ago, 400 years ago. What makes you think the you and your "teachers" are "right" while everyone else who has made similar claims has always been proven wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by 144 View Post
    believers are told specifically not to be ignorant in this next verse, yet most still are not aware.

    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    Hey now! That's Harold Camping's favorite proof text for his incontrovertible proof that the rapture will happen on May 21, 2011, and the annihilation of the whole universe on Oct 21, 2011. He says that it is absolutely impossible for him to be wrong because everything comes from the Bible and besides that, God has given many "amazing proofs." He is one of my favorite Date-setting Doomsday Dingbats, especially since he was proven wrong about his prediction of 1994 and yet still has thousands of weak-minded "true believers" who accept every crazy interpretation he offers. And he's not really any different than you or any other date-setting futurist. His interpretations of the Bible are transparently false and beyond absurd and trivial to refute, just like Chumney's, and Whirlwind's, and yours, and especially the ridiculous and anti-biblical teachings found on the www.danielstimeline.com site.

    Thanks for taking the time to write something I could respond to.

    All the best,

    Richard
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  8. #38
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    Hey there 144,

    You got me wondering. How long have you been a Futurist? I ask because if you've been a Futurist for many years, and you currently believe in date-setting, then you probably have believed in date-setting in the past. Therefore, it seems pretty likely that you've had a number of false predictions come and go. For example, Chuck Smith foolishly believed, along with thousand of other fools, that Christ would return in 1981 because 1981 = 1948 + 40 - 7. And remember all the fools who believed in 1988? And Harold Camping was famous for his false predictions about 1994 and is currently pushing his false prediction of May 21, 2011 as an infallible revelation straight from God's Word. And then all the foolish date-setters jumped on the 1999 bandwagon, and then the year 2000 stole all their brains because it was supposed to be the beginning of the "seventh day" of creation (which supposedly began in 4004 BC). Yep! That "a day is as a thousand years" has been the mainstay of date-setters since the beginning. It's funny to see how they use the same idea but change the application every time they need to create a new date after being proven wrong again. And on and on and on and on it goes. So unless you are brand-new to the date-setting scene, I am pretty sure that you've been proven wrong a number of times already. I'd love it if you would share some of the false dates that you fell for in the past. It would be good to help others from being deceived in a similar way, right? I mean, an argument could be made that it is your duty to warn other believers of the dangers of date-setting, right?

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hey there 144,

    You got me wondering. How long have you been a Futurist? I ask because if you've been a Futurist for many years, and you currently believe in date-setting, then you probably have believed in date-setting in the past. Therefore, it seems pretty likely that you've had a number of false predictions come and go. For example, Chuck Smith foolishly believed, along with thousand of other fools, that Christ would return in 1981 because 1981 = 1948 + 40 - 7. And remember all the fools who believed in 1988? And Harold Camping was famous for his false predictions about 1994 and is currently pushing his false prediction of May 21, 2011 as an infallible revelation straight from God's Word. And then all the foolish date-setters jumped on the 1999 bandwagon, and then the year 2000 stole all their brains because it was supposed to be the beginning of the "seventh day" of creation (which supposedly began in 4004 BC). Yep! That "a day is as a thousand years" has been the mainstay of date-setters since the beginning. It's funny to see how they use the same idea but change the application every time they need to create a new date after being proven wrong again. And on and on and on and on it goes. So unless you are brand-new to the date-setting scene, I am pretty sure that you've been proven wrong a number of times already. I'd love it if you would share some of the false dates that you fell for in the past. It would be good to help others from being deceived in a similar way, right? I mean, an argument could be made that it is your duty to warn other believers of the dangers of date-setting, right?

    All the best,

    Richard
    Are you alluding to 7/8/2008 the date you accused me of setting ?

    I hate to do this

    the two people who set that date are Stephen, maybe the same Stephen who has the stars by his posts on your site.

    He did not like me then, and still doesn't 2/2008 was the first time i ever considered English Gematria and knew nothing of possible Hebrew connections

    His e-mail Stephen <wilkste@aol.com>;

    The second person who set that date, not sure which one of them it was

    Ross Verba / youngest offensive lineman to start in a Superbowl # 78

    ross verba <rossverba33@yahoo.com>;

    Thanks to them i was introduced into English Gematria, and thanks to you Richard for the good work you did putting this site together, hard to believe He could use a preterist

    Baruch HaShem
    Last edited by 144; 02-07-2011 at 10:54 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    14,520
    One of the fundamental errors found in Eddie Chumney's teachings is that he calls the Apostle Paul "Rav Sha'ul." This is contrary to the Bible. Paul himself signs his own letters with the name "Paul" and Jesus himself called him Paul when he appeared to him
    Acts 23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.
    This is just another example of how the Hebrew Roots Movement is fundamentally anti-biblical. They change things to suit their own teachings, and even reject whole books of Scripture if they don't like what they teach (e.g. Eddie Chumney publicly supports Monte Judah who rejects the book of Hebrews).

    A little leaven ...
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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