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  1. #1

    Think not that I have come to destroy the Law

    This might be associated with Richards study of the immorality of the law.

    In the contextual setting:
    Jesus has been baptized and declared by a voice of God as the beloved son. He has revealed himself as the Messiah to the Samaritan woman at the well and been tempted in the wilderness by rulership over all nations. He has begun teaching and healing, choosing his followers and so forth.

    As the crowds gather in following; he ascends to a hilltop (mountaintop) and his disciples follow....where he begins teaching the Sermon on the mount.

    These are new Peaceful teachings, and focus on the inner person and their spirit. They teach of forgiveness and so forth, and of putting oneself 'out' for the sake of your neighbor/friend etc. They are dissimilar to the instructions that Moses gave.


    2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

    3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

    5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

    6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

    7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

    8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

    9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

    10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

    12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

    13Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

    14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

    15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

    16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

    17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heav
    en.

    20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

    22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

    24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
    The Peaceful and Serving nature of the sermon and the instruction to the inner man contrast against the promised fierce end to the old conditional, national law and it's people who would continue to sacrifice.

    We know that the disciples did not continue in every commandment of the law but they stopped circumcision, they ate 'unclean' foods, and they ceased participation in the rituals and sacrifices of the temple system. Hebrews 10 instructs that to revert back to that sin is to trample the blood of God's covenant under foot.

    Thus, I believe the commandments that Jesus wished for his listeners to keep and obey in verse 19 were the attitudes and inner teachings of his sermon of the mount which he had just been delivering.

    I believe then that his statement in verse 17,18 that he came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law included fulfilling the end of and judgment upon the national covenant as ways to obtain and remain 'blessed'. Isaiah 65:2 says that it is a 'way which is not good'. Paul calls it a gainsaying way in Romans 10:20,21.

    Again, the main point is that vs 19 applies to the new laws and instructions of the 'new prophet' while vss 17,18 apply to the fulfillment of the prophesies contained within the law, and especially those about extracting a remnant of faith in HIM and of the latter end. The conditional/corporal way to seek blessing in God and especially of empty sacrifice is still judged as the way not good (Isaiah 65:2) and the way which may seemeth right unto man.

    Jesus' opening statements of Blessed be the poor in Spirit contrast against the attitude of self-righteousness in seeking to keep moral or mosaic law.
    Last edited by EndtimesDeut32/70AD; 07-02-2012 at 03:06 PM.
    1Thess 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    If you are oppressed and enslaved by religious law, you may have a tendency to oppress, enslave and attempt to lord over others who are free.

  2. #2
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    We know that the disciples did not continue in every commandment of the law but they stopped circumcision, they ate 'unclean' foods, and they ceased participation in the rituals and sacrifices of the temple system.

    Do we know this? Per Jesus they were obligated to keep every Jot and Tittle... Untill Heaven and Earth Pass. It was the 'Gentiles' who were free from becoming prosylites to a Covenant that was waxing old and fading away. The Jerusalem Church still worshiped at The Temple when Paul came for the second Jersalem conference and James to Paul to take 4 Prosylites to The Temple and Pay for their sacrifices.... Paul did not say "No, I am not under the Mosaic Law and do not have to."


    I believe then that his statement in verse 18,19 that he came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law includes the fulfilling the violent ending of the national covenant and in maintaining the negative, fruitless, aspect of conditional/corporal ways and humanist rules and laws.
    The begining of the Fulfillment comes with verse 17.


    Romans 7:
    2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

    3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

    4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

    6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


    1 Cor 7:
    39The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
    Last edited by Brother Les; 01-25-2011 at 02:54 PM.
    Brother Les

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    Do we know this? Per Jesus they were obligated to keep every Jot and Tittle... Untill Heaven and Earth Pass. It was the 'Gentiles' who were free from becoming prosylites to a Covenant that was waxing old and fading away. The Jerusalem Church still worshiped at The Temple when Paul came for the second Jersalem conference and James to Paul to take 4 Prosylites to The Temple and Pay for their sacrifices.... Paul did not say "No, I am not under the Mosaic Law and do not have to."
    Just as there was a wandering in the wilderness to remove the people from the memory and practices of slavery to the Egyptians, there was a 40 yr removal of patterns of obedience to mosaic law.

    This is the very point. I believe Jesus was instructing his followers to obey his commandments for blessedness and saying that people who taught them would be blessed in the kingdom of Heaven. It was the beginning of teaching of blessing through cultivating individuality and relationship with the Father. This was the characteristics of the New Covenant. No longer would men say; my grandfather ate sour grapes and now I'm not happy. Or, our grandad failed to do the sacrifice and now my wheatfield has disease. Each man would be accountable for their own souls.

    Jesus was giving New instruction as the 'new prophet' of Duet 18 who would bring words of LIFE.

    It doesnt' say they were obligated to keep every Jot and Tittle...
    It says till heaven and earth pass, every jot and title would remain in the law...and be fulfilled including it's latter ends. The mosaic heavens and earth 'passed' in 30-70AD.

    I believe 5:19 refers to teaching the New Laws and instructions of Christ who also came to bring the judgment that was contained in the negative, corporal, conditional, inferior way of seeking and recieving blessing. He said; for judgment I have come into the world... AND He, in the length of his normal 75 yr lifespan brought judgment and a Determination.(noun)
    The positive way is justification by faith.

    In view of the new teachings of God, the maker or life, come to earth and the Peaceable and blessed nature of those teachings, He then says: Think not that I've come to destroy the law; WHICH INCLUDED THE PROPHECIES OF IT'S LATTER END and the prophecies of the deaths of those of that generation who would continuously reject him in favor of their own ways. see Acts 3:22-24.

    The law has been fulfilled (and ended) since 70 Ad but we should still teach the Sermon on the mount and the kingdom of (new) heaven.
    Last edited by EndtimesDeut32/70AD; 01-25-2011 at 04:35 PM.
    1Thess 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    If you are oppressed and enslaved by religious law, you may have a tendency to oppress, enslave and attempt to lord over others who are free.

  4. #4
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    I find this a fascinating and difficult topic.

    On the one hand, it seems very clear that the Old Covenant was finished and done away with by the death of Christ on the cross:
    Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember, that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision " by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands-- 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
    Likewise, Paul explicitly stated that believers (both Jew and Gentile) had died "to the Law" so their could be married to Christ:
    Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then if, while her husband is living, she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress, though she is joined to another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit for God.
    But on the other hand, we have the words of Christ that seem to say that the Law would be binding till "heaven and earth" pass away. I can see only two solutions:

    1) There are blatant contradictions in the Bible. One "school" of believers were Torah keeping Jews, while the other "school" followed Paul. This is the view of most modern skeptical scholars I would think.

    2) "Heaven and earth" ended when Christ was crucified. This is represented by the veil of the temple being torn. The death of Christ, the Mediator between God and man represents the end of the old "heavens and earth". Or something like that ... I don't really know. Like I said, it is a very difficult issue. Some feel that the Old Covenant was only in process of "passing away" and was still "in force" until 70 AD. But this contradicts Hebrews statement that the Old Covenant ended with the death of the Testator. It's really a sticky wicket. I don't know if there is a solution.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #5
    But on the other hand, we have the words of Christ that seem to say that the Law would be binding till "heaven and earth" pass away. I can see only two solutions:
    Where? It says not one jot nor title (not one element) would pass till all be fulfilled. The gracious God would not forsake the neccessary destruction of the old ways nor the confirmation of His existence through the fulfillment of the prophecies, exposing his character and ways, till all were fulfilled.


    2) "Heaven and earth" ended when Christ was crucified. This is represented by the veil of the temple being torn. The death of Christ, the Mediator between God and man represents the end of the old "heavens and earth". Or something like that ... I don't really know. Like I said, it is a very difficult issue. Some feel that the Old Covenant was only in process of "passing away" and was still "in force" until 70 AD. But this contradicts Hebrews statement that the Old Covenant ended with the death of the Testator. It's really a sticky wicket. I don't know if there is a solution.
    I think Dan 9 could shed some light. As I read the 490 yr covenant, the actions of God fulfilling the covenant promised to EVE in the final week 27AD to 33 AD which includes the indwelling of his representatives were the CAUSE which would effect the ending of the sacrifice and oblation. There is a 'hiphil' verb tense in there which the KJV acurately translates as, 'and he shall CAUSE" the....to cease.

    Another point; Remember my postor name. Remember that the book of Deut is the 'law of Moses' which was placed in the ARk. This was the 'heavens of the mosiac covenant and the land of judea was it's domain (earth). AND, the book of Deuteronomy included the 'latter end' judgment upon those who continued in rebellion, disbelief and to go their own way and those who would continue to be His (God's and Christ's) enemies by killing Him in his children. (saints) Thus although the New Covenant was fully enacted in his teaching first, and the cross, and then the indwelling of the disciples.....and the regulations, ordinances and conditional aspects were 'nailed to the cross' AND the temple sacrifice was made desolate, it was permitted to continue to give those within that generation ample time to believe and recieve before their 'latter end' and deaths which was included in the prophesies IN The law.

    These were the 'jots and titles' that would not pass from the law till all be fulfilled. As time progressed from the giving of the law till the last of the prophets, additional details would be added which could be included with the 'mother' of the book of Deut. For example, Is 66 records the escape of the 'man child' from Jerusalem before the seige (labor). It records the voice from the temple and city which occured in the last few years in Jerusalem before it's fall. These were not abolished from the law but were fulfilled.
    And so forth.
    Thus it could be argued that the creation of the new heavens/new earth was a 40 yr process.

    Hope this helps
    Take care.
    Last edited by EndtimesDeut32/70AD; 01-26-2011 at 03:15 AM.
    1Thess 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    If you are oppressed and enslaved by religious law, you may have a tendency to oppress, enslave and attempt to lord over others who are free.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndtimesDeut32/70AD View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    But on the other hand, we have the words of Christ that seem to say that the Law would be binding till "heaven and earth" pass away. I can see only two solutions:
    Where? It says not one jot nor title (not one element) would pass till all be fulfilled. The gracious God would not forsake the neccessary destruction of the old ways nor the confirmation of His existence through the fulfillment of the prophecies, exposing his character and ways, till all were fulfilled.
    I inferred it from this passage:
    Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    Christ commanded the people hearing him to obey the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by EndtimesDeut32/70AD View Post
    I think Dan 9 could shed some light. As I read the 490 yr covenant, the actions of God fulfilling the covenant promised to EVE in the final week 27AD to 33 AD which includes the indwelling of his representatives were the CAUSE which would effect the ending of the sacrifice and oblation. There is a 'hiphil' verb tense in there which the KJV acurately translates as, 'and he shall CAUSE" the....to cease.
    I assume you are talking about the protoevangelium of Gen 3:15. I think it is a stretch to say that God promised a "covenant" to Eve. At best, it is a "foreshadow." But I agree that this could be the meaning "and he [the messiah] shall CAUSE" the offerings to cease.

    Quote Originally Posted by EndtimesDeut32/70AD View Post
    Another point; Remember my postor name. Remember that the book of Deut is the 'law of Moses' which was placed in the ARk. This was the 'heavens of the mosiac covenant and the land of judea was it's domain (earth). AND, the book of Deuteronomy included the 'latter end' judgment upon those who continued in rebellion, disbelief and to go their own way and those who would continue to be His (God's and Christ's) enemies by killing Him in his children. (saints) Thus although the New Covenant was fully enacted in his teaching first, and the cross, and then the indwelling of the disciples.....and the regulations, ordinances and conditional aspects were 'nailed to the cross' AND the temple sacrifice was made desolate, it was permitted to continue to give those within that generation ample time to believe and recieve before their 'latter end' and deaths which was included in the prophesies IN The law.
    This makes a lot of sense, but I seem to recall this position leads to some apparent inconsistencies with other Scriptures, but I don't recall which right off the top of my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by EndtimesDeut32/70AD View Post
    These were the 'jots and titles' that would not pass from the law till all be fulfilled. As time progressed from the giving of the law till the last of the prophets, additional details would be added which could be included with the 'mother' of the book of Deut. For example, Is 66 records the escape of the 'man child' from Jerusalem before the seige (labor). It records the voice from the temple and city which occured in the last few years in Jerusalem before it's fall.
    And so forth.
    Thus it could be argued that the creation of the new heavens/new earth was a 40 yr process.

    Hope this helps
    Take care.
    Yes, it helps a lot. The fact that the "passing away" was both a "one time event" at the cross, as well as something that took 40 years to be fully worked out in history makes a lot of sense to me but there are some problematic areas.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #7
    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I inferred it from this passage:
    Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    Christ commanded the people hearing him to obey the law.
    This is the very point of this thread. I believe the breaking of any of these 'least' commandments is referring to the new "commandments', instructions and principles for blessedness in Matt 5:2-16 which contrasted against the corporal way of the mosaic covenant.

    Dont' go thinking [though] that I've come to stop the end of the law, nor nullify it's inferiority, it's curse and 'latter end'.... I've not come to Destroy but to 'fulfill' it's latter end. Elswhere he says; he has come for judgment.

    AND within the timeframe of His lifespan, he did bring the fulfillments of the prophets of and against the mosaic law.

    Christ commanded the people hearing him to obey the law.
    With this I disagree. I believe Christ was commanding people to obey and teach others HIS teachings and words of 'inner laws" as the 'new Prophet'.
    For the law came by Moses [old prophet] but[contrast] GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus Christ.

    Elswhere he says.. someone greater than Moses is here.

    A person can't rebell against, disbelieve or judge the Good.. (God) due to the apparent immorality of the mosaic law, because God himself proclaimed it as inferior and established only for it's temporal and contrasting purposes.

    I assume you are talking about the protoevangelium of Gen 3:15. I think it is a stretch to say that God promised a "covenant" to Eve. At best, it is a "foreshadow."
    Yes, the protoevangelion.

    What law of sin/death was Paul referring to in Rom 8:2?


    I dont' think it's a stretch, but I believe it is in fact "the covenant" of Dan 9:27 of the final week of 27-33 AD. It was previously expressed as 'my covenant' to the individual Abraham in Gen 12:3, as he was called to leave teh babylonian counterfeit rituals and religious slavery, and then also to Noah, but originally promised as a 'seed' of the woman with an implied outcome of ending the effects of the conditional test of the Garden. Thus, the 'seed' in coming from a virgin would be from the Creator and thus would be empowered to cancel the very conditional law that he himself established there...

    ONe thing that I gleaned recently from Barnabus (and is repeated by Paul) is the idea of worship/Celebration on Sunday not being represented of the first day of the week and of the resurrection, but the 8th day and of a New Beginning, as those in faith in their creator come to earth are a NEW CREATION... i.e...a garden of themselves...

    Mattew Henry's commentary,before the futurist (gap), went into pretty good detail about the connection between the promise of a virgin born THY (Eve's) 'seed' of the virgin woman (Mary) and 'the covenant' of Dan 9 fulfilled by God incarnate.

    The 'gap' in Dan 9 was also referred to by Ireneous' as their chilaist beliefs insisted on a yet future end to satisfy the 6000/7000 yrs.

    Furthermore, in Dan 9, in the previous context, Daniel is seemingly concerned about God's keeping or fulfilling his covenant of Mercy in light of the fact that the 70 yr captivity is coming to an end and the house's of Israel, Judah have no direction to bring on that covenant or the circumcision of the heart in deut 30:10ff. His confession required in Deut 30:1-5 brings on that direction and promise of a decree and a return to the land in preparation for it's fulfillment.

    But I agree that this could be the meaning "and he [the messiah] shall CAUSE" the offerings to cease.
    That is the way I understand it. The actions and occurances of the Messiahs 70th week of 7 yrs including his indwelling of his disciples fulfilled the items of vs 24 AND cause the effects of the latter end and cessation [stoppage] of the sacrifice and oblation. His indwelling also established the justice of equating the act of killing the saints as the same as continuing to rebell against and disbelieve Christ and the truth of God. Dan 7 says that the judgment SAT (stood firm and took effect) and the favor was given to the Saints of faith in the Son of man...

    Yes, it helps a lot. The fact that the "passing away" was both a "one time event" at the cross, as well as something that took 40 years to be fully worked out in history makes a lot of sense to me but there are some problematic areas.
    Just as the mosaic covenant was a 40 yr process from the passover sacrifice to crossing the Jordan and conquest of Jericho. It set the patterns to verify and confirm the new heavens (ordinances) and new earth (domain) of the NEW prophet who spoke as if with the very words of God.

    May the Spirit continue to lead unto all truth.
    Take care.
    Last edited by EndtimesDeut32/70AD; 01-26-2011 at 10:30 AM.
    1Thess 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    If you are oppressed and enslaved by religious law, you may have a tendency to oppress, enslave and attempt to lord over others who are free.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    Do we know this? Per Jesus they were obligated to keep every Jot and Tittle... Untill Heaven and Earth Pass. It was the 'Gentiles' who were free from becoming prosylites to a Covenant that was waxing old and fading away. The Jerusalem Church still worshiped at The Temple when Paul came for the second Jersalem conference and James to Paul to take 4 Prosylites to The Temple and Pay for their sacrifices.... Paul did not say "No, I am not under the Mosaic Law and do not have to."
    I call Heb 10 which indicates a 'sin' to continue in blood sacrifice after coming to the knowledge of the truth; thereby trampling the blood of the covenant under foot. (first century primary context)

    I call Peters vision that it is ok to eat what was formerly 'unclean'.

    Jesus told the [Samaratin] woman at the well that the time was coming and now was when true believers would not worship in this mountain or that city, but would worship in Spirit and truth.

    If the disciples continued to worship at the temple it may have just been a gathering spot; not sure and not actual 'worship'. And again, I think there is a gradual seperation implied. Peter didn't recieve the vision of the clean and unclean at Pentacost but a few yrs later.


    The begining of the Fulfillment comes with verse 17.
    Thanks I corrected it.

    Romans 7:
    2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
    The sacrifice was desolate from the cross through the consummation. (Dan 9:26, 27.

    3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

    REFERRING TO SPIRITUAL COVENANTS AND SPIRITUAL ADULTERY
    4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

    6But now [IN 55-60 AD NOT AFTER 70 AD] we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


    Good VERSES AND GOOD SECTION OF ROMANS.
    Last edited by EndtimesDeut32/70AD; 01-26-2011 at 05:04 AM.
    1Thess 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    If you are oppressed and enslaved by religious law, you may have a tendency to oppress, enslave and attempt to lord over others who are free.

  9. #9
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    EndtimesDeut32/70AD, Blessings to you.

    When I have time I will walk you through your errors in relation to the transition period(s).

    From the first Passover to Joshua leading 'the Children' (of those who went into the Wilderness) in 'The Land'. (As the type). To the Sacrifice of Jesus/God (Passover) and Him (Jesus/God) taking 'the Children' (those of the REAL transition period) into Beulah Land. From Sinai to the Land (OC) and Pentecost to The Land, were Betrothals to the Next Covenantal Marriage. But we must remember that the 'Former' Husbands Contracts (Covenants) had to be Fulfilled, before the 'New Marriage could happen.
    Brother Les

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    EndtimesDeut32/70AD, Blessings to you.
    But we must remember that the 'Former' Husbands Contracts (Covenants) had to be Fulfilled, before the 'New Marriage could happen.
    There is so much progressive learning and I've recently picked up on the marriage Feast of Matt 25 (I think) being fulfilled in the 'Beulah land' (Pella) as you call it. Those who killed the ones sent out to invite the others to the feast can only refer to the killing of the apostles.

    Thus although I don't disagree with what you've posted here, neither do I agree that Jesus was telling his Jewish disciples that the were to keep every jot an title of the law when he told them that they were all to keep the very least of these commandments.

    As noted; I believe vs 19 is a continuation of vs 2-16 with vs 17 & 18 being a parenthetical explaination that every jot and title (every element and prophecy) based in the Deuteronomic law and it's prophets (Acts 3:23) would continue to all be fulfilled including its judgment, the destrctions and the sword of Deliverence from oppression. This was foretold first I think in Deut 18 when it was said that it would come to pass that alll within the nation who would not listen to the 'new prophet' would have their lives required of them. This was reported by Peter in Acts 3:22-24.

    Thus, Jesus wasn't telling them to keep 'every jot and title' of the law and those commandments till the marriage feast; but telling them to keep and teach these 'least' commandments and spiritual principles which he had begun teaching them AND which were actually Contrary to the conditional blessings sought by corporally and condtionally keeping the mosaic law.

    I DO think/believe that the jewish believers were to at least respect the feasts and festival (times and seasons), since the New Covenant would be verified and progressively enacted with them through those patterns.

    Since the time period between 30 and 70 AD is within one lifespan, AND since circumcison was performed on the 8th day, we likely dont' have any record of jewish disciples instructing other jewish discples in this issue. The ordinances and the law seperating the jew from greek were nailed to the cross in favor of the 'new... forgiven man' as you noted.

    As you noted; time may limit responses.
    Last edited by EndtimesDeut32/70AD; 01-26-2011 at 07:40 AM.
    1Thess 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    If you are oppressed and enslaved by religious law, you may have a tendency to oppress, enslave and attempt to lord over others who are free.

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