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  1. #1
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    The Righteousness and Glory of God?

    I am studying John Piper's book The Justification of God which is the premier Reformed (Calvinist) exegesis of Romans 9, and he comes to the conclusion that the phrase "righteousness of God" denotes "God's unswerving commitment to preserve the honor of his name and display his glory." He bases this on the fact that Paul quoted Exo 33:19 as an answer to the question "Is there unrighteousness in God?"

    Exodus 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
    Piper's conclusion followed from the fact that 1) Exo 33:19 was God's response to Moses request to show him his "glory" and 2) Paul used this as an answer to the question "Is there unrighteousness in God."

    So now I have two questions. First, Piper defined God's righteousness in terms of God's Glory. So to really understand his definition, I need to know what the Bible means by "God's glory."

    Second, I am wondering how folks here would define "God's righteousness."

    Thanks in advance for your comments!

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Second, I am wondering how folks here would define "God's righteousness."

    Thanks in advance for your comments! Richard
    In short, - to this question - I would say "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us". It would be hard to put it into 'words' but it is plain in the Person of Jesus Christ.
    Jeremiah 20:9 " But His word was in my heart like a burning fire Shut up in my bones; I was weary of holding it back, And I could not.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by shalag View Post
    In short, - to this question - I would say "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us". It would be hard to put it into 'words' but it is plain in the Person of Jesus Christ.
    Amen to that. Jesus is the "righteousness of God."

    1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
    So "righteousness" has been "put into the Word (Jesus)" but I am trying to put it into "words."

    So what does "the righteousness of God" mean? When Abram believed in the Lord, and it was counted as "righteousness" - what does that mean?

    This is not a trick question!

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #4
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    I would say that righteousness as it applies to God would mean that everything He does is right.

    He makes no mistakes. He doesn't "miss" His own standard of perfection.

    We, on the other hand, do nothing right of ourselves. Even when, on the surface, our efforts may appear to be "right", there is always a hidden motive behind what we do, whether we are aware of it or not.

    In the creation, God displayed some of His hidden attributes; His power and his divine purpose. But, He had not revealed His righteousness in fullness until Jesus came.

    Everything Jesus said, thought, did, and did not do, was "right". He was the Lamb without blemish.

    Only in the gospel as presented by Paul is God's righteousness revealed.

    Sending His Son, in the likeness of sin's flesh, was the purest of right things to do.......and, sending His Son to the cross was even yet more pure and right still. It has "righted" all wrongs.

    When God does something, the glory of God emmanates out of the act. Righteousness radiates a glory unequaled by any creation, or any creature.

    Most amazing is that He has chosen to share His glory with us. First, however, He shares His righteousness when He justifies us in His blood.

    The weight of our current outward body and the pressures that are brought to bear cannot be compared with the glory that we will share when we are in His presence.

    Joel
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38,39

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by joel View Post
    Sending His Son, in the likeness of sin's flesh, was the purest of right things to do.......and, sending His Son to the cross was even yet more pure and right still. It has "righted" all wrongs.

    When God does something, the glory of God emmanates out of the act. Righteousness radiates a glory unequaled by any creation, or any creature.

    Most amazing is that He has chosen to share His glory with us. First, however, He shares His righteousness when He justifies us in His blood.

    The weight of our current outward body and the pressures that are brought to bear cannot be compared with the glory that we will share when we are in His presence.

    Joel
    If it can be put in words - these are the words. Awesome!
    Jeremiah 20:9 " But His word was in my heart like a burning fire Shut up in my bones; I was weary of holding it back, And I could not.

  6. #6
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    Shalag, we serve an awesome God, don't we.....Who is like unto thee, O Lord, among the gods? Who is like unto thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders? Exodus 15:11.

    Richard, to bring things down to their most simplistic basis, I offer this observation;

    Faith is linked with righteousness,
    obedience and suffering are linked with glory


    Romans 3:22
    Even the righteousness of God (which is) by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that believe: for there is no difference


    It is not my faith, it is His faith. And when God grants the faith to me, I am enabled to believe, and righteousness is reckoned, on the basis of faith, to me and to all who may be granted the faith as well. We are seen in His eyes as "righteous".

    We now exist in the realm of God's grace where we are to stand, walk, and run the race set before us.

    Hebrews 2:9
    But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honour, that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


    Glory is associated with acts. The creation radiates the glory of God.
    Humanity, created in His image, demonstrates the opposite of His glory as long as we are associated with Adam,......"all ..sinned..and....fall short of the glory of God".

    And we are to reflect the glory of God by being conformed to his image, rather than changing it as Paul clearly states in Romans 1:23 where man...."changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image...."

    Joel
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38,39

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose
    I agree wholeheartedly that faith is linked with righteousness, but I would reword your quote to say: It is my faith (belief) in Christ that is counted for righteousness by God, as with Abraham He believed God and it was counted as righteousness by God.

    Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

    Rose
    Rose, I understand that you see it that way, as do many others whom I have spoken with concerning this matter.

    It is instructive to differentiate between ...."the faith of Jesus Christ"....and my faith "in Jesus Christ".

    In Romans 3:22, I see it as saying that righteousness, as from God, comes by means of Jesus' faith. His faith is the original source of faith. He is the author of our faith (Hebrews 12:2).

    That faith is placed "into" us so that we may believe. And, as we are linked to it, we are placed "into" Him......we become "sons" of God through the belief "in" Him. He becomes the finisher of faith as we grow in grace and in the knowledge of Him.

    But, I see it as originating in Him and occurring and being expressed, first, within Him. In that respect, I see it as "His faith", and, then, it can be expressed as "our faith".

    Not meaning to quibble, but, only seeking the accuracy of the words, and the placement of the truths as they appear in scripture. The truth of Jesus' faith in Romans 3 preceeds the truth of the reckoning of faith that is spoken of in Romans 4 where Abraham is discussed.

    The reckoning of faith occurs twice in Romans 4. First, when he is justified by faith in the initial part of his life of faith.......and, later, when he is "dead" and unable to produce life, and receives the son of promise, Isaac.

    I do not believe that faith exists within anyone until it is placed there by God.
    Nor do I believe that hope (expectation) exists within anyone, nor, does love (agapae) until God, by means of His spirit, grants such gifts.

    It is what we do with them, when received, that characterizes our life which when after we received, we can say that it is "our" faith, "our" expectation, "our" love only in the sense that we have been given these spiritual graces by God, and they have been expressed in edifying others as He enables us to be the channel of the graces.

    Joel

    Joel
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38,39

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