Google Ads

Google Ads

Bible Wheel Book

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 75
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,345

    The Universe was Created to Design Itself

    As my transformation of thought continues, I am striving to come up with a descriptive term that best reflects my view of where I’m at in my faith….Realist seems most appropriate at this point in my journey, because it reflects the approach I use in determining how to interpret not only Scripture, but the world around me. The words of Romans 1: 20 'For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:' are more alive to me than ever before. Through the discoverability of the world around me and my ability to use reason, and logic I am able to hear God speak through all of creation, thus allowing myself the freedom to perceive truth from everything that exists in the Universe….whether that be the process of evolution or the contradictions of the Bible, I am free to look at the facts and use my reason to understand them, thus giving God the freedom in my mind to have created the universe anyway He desired.

    As I was listening to a theoretical physicist named Lawrence Krauss the other day speaking about the origins of the Universe, he mentioned that with todays advances in understanding the beginnings of the Universe it appears that the starting point of creation was 'nothing' meaning the absence of matter….instead there was pure energy. That got me to thinking about how the Bible speaks of the beginnings of the Universe in the same manner….from the tohu and the bohu (emptiness, confusion and nothingness) comes light (pure energy, with no mass that cannot decay) and from light comes everything.
    Gen.1:1-3 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form (tohu), and void (bohu); and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
    If the starting point of everything was the energy of emptiness then it seems the Universe was created by God in such a manner as to be able to design itself. From the beginning the 'code' DNA was given that allows what forms from those elements created from the energy of emptiness to be able to design the Universe in which they exist, and God becomes the force that ignited that process, thus evolution is the process by which God chose to create the diversity of life.


    All the Best,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    14,814
    I think your idea of a "self-designing universe" is spot on. We see the same thing on a small scale within the universe - a tree builds itself from a tiny seed. Just add water and sunlight. To appreciate how amazing this really is, we should imagine planting a seed that automatically collects all the raw materials it needs and grows into the Empire State Building including all the electrical wiring, computer networks, and even the computers (brains) themselves! And installs the software and everything works flawlessly? Wow! The growth of a human baby is far more complex than that!

    But the question of the origin of the code is still perplexing. Did God intervene to design the DNA of the first cell, and then let things evolve on their own? Or did he have to intervene intermittently along the way? Or did he simply design the laws of nature and initial conditions of the universe to make evolution inevitable without any intervention?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    800
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I think your idea of a "self-designing universe" is spot on. We see the same thing on a small scale within the universe - a tree builds itself from a tiny seed. Just add water and sunlight. To appreciate how amazing this really is, we should imagine planting a seed that automatically collects all the raw materials it needs and grows into the Empire State Building including all the electrical wiring, computer networks, and even the computers (brains) themselves! And installs the software and everything works flawlessly? Wow! The growth of a human baby is far more complex than that!

    But the question of the origin of the code is still perplexing. Did God intervene to design the DNA of the first cell, and then let things evolve on their own? Or did he have to intervene intermittently along the way? Or did he simply design the laws of nature and initial conditions of the universe to make evolution inevitable without any intervention?
    I think it is more like the letters which we call the Hebrew alphabet are the DNA code of everything created. Whether physical, pychological, mental or spiritual. If Jesus is the "Word" and builder/creator. The letters are the "Architects", archtypes, and agents of the entire plan.

    Bob

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    14,814
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob May View Post
    I think it is more like the letters which we call the Hebrew alphabet are the DNA code of everything created. Whether physical, pychological, mental or spiritual. If Jesus is the "Word" and builder/creator. The letters are the "Architects", archtypes, and agents of the entire plan.

    Bob
    Very well stated. That is precisely the intuition I have had from the beginning about the real meaning of the Hebrew alphabet. And that's why it's integration with the Bible Wheel is so significant. It makes the Bible feel like the specific DNA code of Reality.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob May View Post
    I think it is more like the letters which we call the Hebrew alphabet are the DNA code of everything created. Whether physical, pychological, mental or spiritual. If Jesus is the "Word" and builder/creator. The letters are the "Architects", archtypes, and agents of the entire plan.

    Bob
    What so amazing about the comparison of DNA and Hebrew is that DNA is divided into 3 letter bases called "Codons" which code for a single Amino Acid in much the same way as most Hebrew verbs have a 3 letter root.

    Here's a link to a short article I wrote on the subject: DNA and the Bible Wheel


    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    201

    The value of human wisdom and logic?

    What does God say about the value of human wisdom and logic to understand him?

    Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. (1Cor 1:21)

    I would rather take a biblical worldview to interpret the world around me instead of interpreting the Bible through what human wisdom and logic says is reality. By that I mean if the Bible says something is so then I believe it and not try to reason it away because so called science or human reasoning says something else.

    For example the Bible clearly teaches that God created all life on the earth, not just the initial conditions, but the plants, animals, and man. Now evolution might say otherwise but I would rather believe what God says then some theory developed by humans.

    I am in no way discounting human reason and logic to understand the world around us but when there is a contradiction between human theories and reasoning and the clear teaching of scripture I will take the side of scripture and not fallible human beings.

    Clifford

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Clifford View Post
    What does God say about the value of human wisdom and logic to understand him?

    Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. (1Cor 1:21)

    I would rather take a biblical worldview to interpret the world around me instead of interpreting the Bible through what human wisdom and logic says is reality. By that I mean if the Bible says something is so then I believe it and not try to reason it away because so called science or human reasoning says something else.

    For example the Bible clearly teaches that God created all life on the earth, not just the initial conditions, but the plants, animals, and man. Now evolution might say otherwise but I would rather believe what God says then some theory developed by humans.
    Hi Clifford,

    Glad you stopped in to comment...

    Who are we to put limitations on the way God chose to create the universe, and the life in it? I see no problem with God creating a universe to design itself, the Bible does not put conditions on how God created it.

    With the completion of the Human Genome project evolution has gone way beyond just being a "theory"....there is no denying that we share common ancestors with many creatures, and that Homo Sapiens can be traced back 100,000 to 200,000 years. Those are just facts that can't be denied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clifford View Post
    I am in no way discounting human reason and logic to understand the world around us but when there is a contradiction between human theories and reasoning and the clear teaching of scripture I will take the side of scripture and not fallible human beings.

    Clifford

    The main problem I see with using the teaching of Scripture to understand science is that it is interpreted by fallible human beings who have their own motives guiding them.

    Like you said: God gave us minds with the ability to reason and understand the world around us, and if a theory is based on a false premise it will soon fail, so we need not be concerned about the sciences leading us astray. I think we have much more to fear from the religions that keep people in bondage to ignorance for their own selfish motives.

    Truth need never be feared as it will always set you free....

    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hi Clifford,

    Glad you stopped in to comment...

    Who are we to put limitations on the way God chose to create the universe, and the life in it? I see no problem with God creating a universe to design itself, the Bible does not put conditions on how God created it.

    With the completion of the Human Genome project evolution has gone way beyond just being a "theory"....there is no denying that we share common ancestors with many creatures, and that Homo Sapiens can be traced back 100,000 to 200,000 years. Those are just facts that can't be denied.

    The main problem I see with using the teaching of Scripture to understand science is that it is interpreted by fallible human beings who have their own motives guiding them.

    Like you said: God gave us minds with the ability to reason and understand the world around us, and if a theory is based on a false premise it will soon fail, so we need not be concerned about the sciences leading us astray. I think we have much more to fear from the religions that keep people in bondage to ignorance for their own selfish motives.

    Truth need never be feared as it will always set you free....

    Hi Rose,

    Rose
    Who are we to put limitations on the way God chose to create the universe, and the life in it? I see no problem with God creating a universe to design itself, the Bible does not put conditions on how God created it.
    In Genesis it clearly says God created the plant, animal, and human life, not some process of evolution.

    The main problem I see with using the teaching of Scripture to understand science is that it is interpreted by fallible human beings who have their own motives guiding them.
    In the same way theories like evolution were developed by fallible human beings who have their own motives guiding them, namely they want to discount God so have developed theories that don't necessitate the need for God.

    Sharing common traits with apes does not mean we evolved from them. God just made us with many similar likenesses like hands, walking upright etc. That in no way proves evolution.

    Clifford

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Clifford View Post
    In Genesis it clearly says God created the plant, animal, and human life, not some process of evolution.



    In the same way theories like evolution were developed by fallible human beings who have their own motives guiding them, namely they want to discount God so have developed theories that don't necessitate the need for God.

    Sharing common traits with apes does not mean we evolved from them. God just made us with many similar likenesses like hands, walking upright etc. That in no way proves evolution.

    Clifford
    There are many scientists like Francis Collins (who was the head of the Human Genome project) who are Christians. The theory of Evolution in no way discounts God....does God not have the power to create life anyway He chooses? Why would the process of evolution verses special creation in any way diminish God's role as creator?

    We Christians need to get our heads out of the sand and accept the reality of facts, instead of dogmatically clinging to teachings that have been proven wrong.

    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    There are many scientists like Francis Collins (who was the head of the Human Genome project) who are Christians. The theory of Evolution in no way discounts God....does God not have the power to create life anyway He chooses? Why would the process of evolution verses special creation in any way diminish God's role as creator?

    We Christians need to get our heads out of the sand and accept the reality of facts, instead of dogmatically clinging to teachings that have been proven wrong.

    Rose
    So you are saying what the Bible teaches in Genesis is wrong? Its not the reality of facts. Its how people interpret facts. For example the evolutionist would point to common traits between apes and humans to support the "fact" of evolution while the creationist would interpret those same facts as supporting the fact the God made them similar.

    Yes God can create life anyway he chooses and he told us in Genesis how he choose to do it and it was not by evolution.

    Clifford

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •