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  1. #1
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    The Universe was Created to Design Itself

    As my transformation of thought continues, I am striving to come up with a descriptive term that best reflects my view of where I’m at in my faith….Realist seems most appropriate at this point in my journey, because it reflects the approach I use in determining how to interpret not only Scripture, but the world around me. The words of Romans 1: 20 'For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:' are more alive to me than ever before. Through the discoverability of the world around me and my ability to use reason, and logic I am able to hear God speak through all of creation, thus allowing myself the freedom to perceive truth from everything that exists in the Universe….whether that be the process of evolution or the contradictions of the Bible, I am free to look at the facts and use my reason to understand them, thus giving God the freedom in my mind to have created the universe anyway He desired.

    As I was listening to a theoretical physicist named Lawrence Krauss the other day speaking about the origins of the Universe, he mentioned that with todays advances in understanding the beginnings of the Universe it appears that the starting point of creation was 'nothing' meaning the absence of matter….instead there was pure energy. That got me to thinking about how the Bible speaks of the beginnings of the Universe in the same manner….from the tohu and the bohu (emptiness, confusion and nothingness) comes light (pure energy, with no mass that cannot decay) and from light comes everything.
    Gen.1:1-3 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form (tohu), and void (bohu); and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
    If the starting point of everything was the energy of emptiness then it seems the Universe was created by God in such a manner as to be able to design itself. From the beginning the 'code' DNA was given that allows what forms from those elements created from the energy of emptiness to be able to design the Universe in which they exist, and God becomes the force that ignited that process, thus evolution is the process by which God chose to create the diversity of life.


    All the Best,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  2. #2
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    I think your idea of a "self-designing universe" is spot on. We see the same thing on a small scale within the universe - a tree builds itself from a tiny seed. Just add water and sunlight. To appreciate how amazing this really is, we should imagine planting a seed that automatically collects all the raw materials it needs and grows into the Empire State Building including all the electrical wiring, computer networks, and even the computers (brains) themselves! And installs the software and everything works flawlessly? Wow! The growth of a human baby is far more complex than that!

    But the question of the origin of the code is still perplexing. Did God intervene to design the DNA of the first cell, and then let things evolve on their own? Or did he have to intervene intermittently along the way? Or did he simply design the laws of nature and initial conditions of the universe to make evolution inevitable without any intervention?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    I think your idea of a "self-designing universe" is spot on. We see the same thing on a small scale within the universe - a tree builds itself from a tiny seed. Just add water and sunlight. To appreciate how amazing this really is, we should imagine planting a seed that automatically collects all the raw materials it needs and grows into the Empire State Building including all the electrical wiring, computer networks, and even the computers (brains) themselves! And installs the software and everything works flawlessly? Wow! The growth of a human baby is far more complex than that!

    But the question of the origin of the code is still perplexing. Did God intervene to design the DNA of the first cell, and then let things evolve on their own? Or did he have to intervene intermittently along the way? Or did he simply design the laws of nature and initial conditions of the universe to make evolution inevitable without any intervention?
    I think it is more like the letters which we call the Hebrew alphabet are the DNA code of everything created. Whether physical, pychological, mental or spiritual. If Jesus is the "Word" and builder/creator. The letters are the "Architects", archtypes, and agents of the entire plan.

    Bob

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob May View Post
    I think it is more like the letters which we call the Hebrew alphabet are the DNA code of everything created. Whether physical, pychological, mental or spiritual. If Jesus is the "Word" and builder/creator. The letters are the "Architects", archtypes, and agents of the entire plan.

    Bob
    Very well stated. That is precisely the intuition I have had from the beginning about the real meaning of the Hebrew alphabet. And that's why it's integration with the Bible Wheel is so significant. It makes the Bible feel like the specific DNA code of Reality.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob May View Post
    I think it is more like the letters which we call the Hebrew alphabet are the DNA code of everything created. Whether physical, pychological, mental or spiritual. If Jesus is the "Word" and builder/creator. The letters are the "Architects", archtypes, and agents of the entire plan.

    Bob
    What so amazing about the comparison of DNA and Hebrew is that DNA is divided into 3 letter bases called "Codons" which code for a single Amino Acid in much the same way as most Hebrew verbs have a 3 letter root.

    Here's a link to a short article I wrote on the subject: DNA and the Bible Wheel


    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  6. #6
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    The value of human wisdom and logic?

    What does God say about the value of human wisdom and logic to understand him?

    Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. (1Cor 1:21)

    I would rather take a biblical worldview to interpret the world around me instead of interpreting the Bible through what human wisdom and logic says is reality. By that I mean if the Bible says something is so then I believe it and not try to reason it away because so called science or human reasoning says something else.

    For example the Bible clearly teaches that God created all life on the earth, not just the initial conditions, but the plants, animals, and man. Now evolution might say otherwise but I would rather believe what God says then some theory developed by humans.

    I am in no way discounting human reason and logic to understand the world around us but when there is a contradiction between human theories and reasoning and the clear teaching of scripture I will take the side of scripture and not fallible human beings.

    Clifford

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clifford View Post
    What does God say about the value of human wisdom and logic to understand him?

    Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. (1Cor 1:21)

    I would rather take a biblical worldview to interpret the world around me instead of interpreting the Bible through what human wisdom and logic says is reality. By that I mean if the Bible says something is so then I believe it and not try to reason it away because so called science or human reasoning says something else.

    For example the Bible clearly teaches that God created all life on the earth, not just the initial conditions, but the plants, animals, and man. Now evolution might say otherwise but I would rather believe what God says then some theory developed by humans.
    Hi Clifford,

    Glad you stopped in to comment...

    Who are we to put limitations on the way God chose to create the universe, and the life in it? I see no problem with God creating a universe to design itself, the Bible does not put conditions on how God created it.

    With the completion of the Human Genome project evolution has gone way beyond just being a "theory"....there is no denying that we share common ancestors with many creatures, and that Homo Sapiens can be traced back 100,000 to 200,000 years. Those are just facts that can't be denied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clifford View Post
    I am in no way discounting human reason and logic to understand the world around us but when there is a contradiction between human theories and reasoning and the clear teaching of scripture I will take the side of scripture and not fallible human beings.

    Clifford

    The main problem I see with using the teaching of Scripture to understand science is that it is interpreted by fallible human beings who have their own motives guiding them.

    Like you said: God gave us minds with the ability to reason and understand the world around us, and if a theory is based on a false premise it will soon fail, so we need not be concerned about the sciences leading us astray. I think we have much more to fear from the religions that keep people in bondage to ignorance for their own selfish motives.

    Truth need never be feared as it will always set you free....

    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    As my transformation of thought continues, I am striving to come up with a descriptive term that best reflects my view of where I’m at in my faith….Realist seems most appropriate at this point in my journey, because it reflects the approach I use in determining how to interpret not only Scripture, but the world around me. The words of Romans 1: 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:” are more alive to me than ever before. Through the discoverability of the world around me and my ability to use reason, and logic I am able to hear God speak through all of creation, thus allowing myself the freedom to perceive truth from everything that exists in the Universe….whether that be the process of evolution or the contradictions of the Bible, I am free to look at the facts and use my reason to understand them, thus giving God the freedom in my mind to have created the universe anyway He desired.

    ....

    All the Best,
    Rose

    Hi Rose and others,

    Think you need this info, think it makes sense. I haven't read the whole thread but came across this info concerning the universe. It's from 'my professor' and I like to call it

    Our body in the universe and the universe in our body

    In our body is the ratio of taking breaths to heartbeats 1:4. When our heart beats four times, we take one breath. The hour is divided into 1080 parts, into “gelakim”. “Gelek” (8-30-100) means part. How? An hour has 60 minutes but that is according to another calculation, the one we use today. In one minute we have 72 pulse beats and take 18 breaths (72:18 = 1:4). So in one hour we take 60x18 = 1080 breaths, thus one hour is divided in 1080 parts.

    The blood is the red side, connected with the 4 opposite of the 1 of the breath side. Now Edom means red in Hebrew, and Adam has to do with that too (dam = blood). Those two work together, the lungs are connected to the heart as 1:4 and together they have total grip on our life.

    We take 1080 breath's in an hour and that means 24x1080 = 25,920 per day. This is exactly the amount of years of the circulation of the universe! This takes place in man every day! Here we see the relationship of man with universe. We deal with the whole universe everyday this way, the universe is not only outside of us. We are created in it and it appears to be created in us as well.

    When in early days they said that man was the center of the universe, they must have meant it this way. And it still is today, every individual is created this way. And when in early days they said that the earth is the center of the universe, could that be because our body withe these properties is build and maintained of products of earth and connects to a day on earth this way?

    It's only a lack of knowledge that conceals this I guess, but it's easy to understand I think, we don't need to be rocket scientists for that. In fact, a rocket scientist won't tell you this and an spaceman neither because they most likely don't know it themselves! Should you meet a scientist who has knowledge about the universe and claims that God does not exist, you can tell him about design now. I started this post with 1:4 and link it to Gen 2:2 where it forms the base of, see my earlier post here. This way we link this science also to the Bible, or better said, the Bible to science. You have to have a big imagination to think that a person had all this knowledge and wrote it down in the Bible the way we find it there.

    Also a precession cycle of 25,765 years goes around on the internet but I haven't figured out the difference with 25,920. Now I found some info on the Wikipedia page, looks like they don''t know it exactly?
    Astronomical value of the precession cycle
    "The duration of the precession cycle, the time it takes for the equinox to precess 360 degrees relative to the fixed stars, is often given as 25,920 or 26,000 years. In reality the exact duration cannot be given, as the rate of precession is changing over time. This speed is currently 243.8 microradians (50.3 arcseconds) per year which would give 25,765 years for one cycle to complete."
    'My professor' wrote about the 25,765 years and the Bible.
    The 26,000 may be clear to us: The gematria value of The Name is 26 (10-5-6-5), translated with Lord. 1000 is written as eleph (1-30-80), aleph is 1 and written the same.
    So 25,765 comes close to 26,000, but is 235 years short.
    The generation of Enosh arrives 235 years after Adam (Gen. 5:3-6, 130+105). At that time they started to "call upon the name of the Lord", but actually it says "read the name of the Lord" (Gen. 4:26). The translation lets it appear like they are doing something good, but it has to be read that they started to use the name of the Lord for the earth. According to tradition the look at the world changed there completely. And that's why the visible precession is only 25.765 years. The time of the 235 years before Enosh were like another world, the generation of Enosh caused a change in time.
    The word Enosh (1-50-6-300) comes from "being weak" and means "man". There are more associations but let's not get into that. Anashim (plural) is translated as "people". Adam is also translated as "man" but Adamites is not used for "people". Adam is man in the sphere of walking with God and Enosh is man in the sphere of what Gen. 4:26 describes.
    Notice that the word Enosh in word value comes close to 358 (and it's not the 359 either and 360 degrees neither. The 350 - 360 sphere).
    So now we have connected the Bible with 25,765 years also. This is another discovery channel don't you think?
    I believe the missing 80 years from 25,920 to the 26,000 years have to do with the 80 years in the life of Moses' biblical account. He sure has to do with the Lord. He is also the 26th from Adam in the line of generations, completing the Torah. This way the whole Torah has to do with the 26 of the universe and it is stated in the Zohar that the Lord our God looked into the Torah and created the universe. And then He hid Himself a bit. What automatically goes along with it is that the universe is made with the hebrew alphabet. The hebrew alphabet counts to 400. The 500 is seen as another dimension. When the 22 'letters' fullfill theirself, 22x22, they are at this border.

    I think it's very interesting to connect the times.

    Now let's conclude with something lighter:
    (new) Did you know that in 50 years time we all can have a light sabre? A light sabre cuts through pretty much anything. You can battle the bad guys with it, just like in Star Wars. You can look at it right now already and here it is. The design of the Light Sabre
    Last edited by NumberX; 04-27-2011 at 01:19 PM.

  9. #9
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    What's next? The next logical step can be that one likes to find out how the Hebrew relates to the physical world around us by gematria. We have heard things like "there is a spark of God in everything". Well, how? you may ask. Show me a spark. It's through His Word, the hebrew word, with it's gematria, we can explore it as we see above and read my other posts of snow and rain for example or about our body. It takes time and energy to explore, when we want to know it we don't need to spend time on discussing with others who are not interested in this field of research.

    It's like wanting to know what a tree is, wat wood is, what water is, what our hair is, what this is and that, learning about the basic things in the here and now. The gematria connections are not teached at school and most of this info we can't think of ourselves. But when we found it and learn and understand how logical it is where we link gematria to creation, we can discuss these findings with others who didn't spend time and energy in this field. We don't expect them to be silent then, or get stupid, but that reallly can happen! There is much to explore in this type of research. Have great discoveries!
    Last edited by NumberX; 10-28-2010 at 12:23 AM.

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