The Resurrection

[TheForgiven]

Epesians 5:

8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. 14 Therefore He says:


“ Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”

Paul here quotes an old testament passage that explains the nature of the resurrection. He shows that we as sinners once walked in a life of darkness, and were by nature objects of wrath being sons of the darkness. Walking in darkness and not knowing where one is going is the same as sleeping, or sleep walking. Without light one cannot see where they are going. But having been filled with the Holy Spirit, we are no longer children wandering in the darkness and not knowing where we are going, but we are children of the light, and this light comes from the Holy Spirit who instructs, teaches, encourages, and rebukes us if necessary. All of this is known by our faith; this is ONLY known by faith that Jesus dwells within us. And if He dwells within us, then we are no longer dead, but made alive. That is why Paul quotes,

"Awake, you who sleep, ARISE FROM THE DEAD, and Christ will give you light."

We who are in Christ are in fact risen from the dead, having passed from death unto life eternally.

Thus, we are sons of the resurrection.

Joe

[joel]

Joe, the one thing that I know about you is........you are consistently persistent in your insistance to describe the resurrection.

It, the resurrection, is a physical standing up...........your body, which was reclining in sleep, stands up. anastasis.........which is not used by Paul in Ephesians.

Paul is using figurative language to describe us......and he uses anistemi, the verb.......to cause to stand up. We are to see ourselves as dead.....and then to see ourselves as alive, and standing again, so that we can walk and serve him.

You may say that this is a spiritual resurrection if you like, but, don't discount the fact that there will be an actual, physical, sure enough, bona fide, dyed in the wool, come to Jesus resurrection of your body. To claim otherwise is to be one who wrestles and fights with words.

Joel

[TheForgiven]

Joe, the one thing that I know about you is........you are consistently persistent in your insistance to describe the resurrection.

The resurrection occurs when you have passed from death unto life, through Christ Jesus our Lord. This is scriptural, as you very well know my friend. I know you love to read the letters of Paul, and the passage I used came from St. Paul.

It, the resurrection, is a physical standing up...........your body, which was reclining in sleep, stands up. anastasis.........which is not used by Paul in Ephesians.

That's a single way of understanding the resurrection. But if we are "made alive" in Christ Jesus through our faith in His resurrection (Roman 10:9-10), then being "made alive" is a resurrection.

Now, I know that after physical death, there is a resurrection where our spirit or soul is given a new body, kept in heaven in store for us who believe. That we have no disagreement with. What we do not agree on, however, is our mortal bodies which die and return to dust. Why do so many people put so much emphasis on our earthly tents? Doesn't Paul teach that our bodies in heaven are "Spiritual Bodies"? And that separation from our earthly tent (body) means to be at home with the Lord? He himself states, "For to be absent from the BODY is to be at home with the Lord..."

This passage confuses many Futurist's so what they teach to cover this problem is that the spirit rised up to be with Christ, but they will not have a new body until the end of the world, or the beginning of the 1000 years reign. So until then, we who are raised to be with the Lord (based on the Dispensational view) will not have a new body until the end of time.

Paul is using figurative language to describe us......and he uses anistemi, the verb.......to cause to stand up. We are to see ourselves as dead.....and then to see ourselves as alive, and standing again, so that we can walk and serve him.

But are you suggesting this is "present tense" or "future tense"? I believe this takes place when one is intially saved through the cross of Christ, through which we are "raised" with him through the power of God who raised Him from the dead (Colassians 2:12)

You may say that this is a spiritual resurrection if you like, but, don't discount the fact that there will be an actual, physical, sure enough, bona fide, dyed in the wool, come to Jesus resurrection of your body. To claim otherwise is to be one who wrestles and fights with words.

Joel

When?

Joe

[TheForgiven]

By the way, does anyone know where Paul was quoting this passage in Ephesians 5:

“ Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”

I can't find this anywhere in the Old Testament as contained in our modern day English Bibles. I have a theory that this passage must have came from the Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament. I've found passages in Isaiah usuing our current English bibles that have a few of the same words (awake, sleeper, etc.), but nothing recorded as Paul quotes it.

Does anyone know?

Joe

By the way brother Joel. Remember that I love you. My seven hugs to you.

[basilfo]

......don't discount the fact that there will be an actual, physical, sure enough, bona fide, dyed in the wool, come to Jesus resurrection of your body.
Joel

Hi Joel,
Hope you have been well. Can you show me the chap/verse(s) you see as describing a resurrection or raising of the physical body? I see Paul saying exactly the opposite in the most detailed discourse on this subject:

"How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?" (1 Cor 15:35)

Wouldn't this be a great place to call teach of a physical/flesh and bones resurrection? Instead, Paul calls it a spiritual body - the opposite of the kind of body we have before physical death.

The other questions I hope you would address would be:

What purpose would a physical body have in a spiritual realm?

If Jesus is a "life-giving Spirit" and "we shall also bear the image of the heavenly [Man.]" (15:48), then how is it that you insert a physical aspect to the resurrection?

Doesn't a "physical resurrection" require an entity to resurrect? By definition, something has to be present to be resurrected. But, if it is a physical resurrection, there is no body to resurrect of the dead for almost all of humanity.

Thanks Joel. Always an interesting topic.

Peace to you,
Dave

[Rose]

By the way, does anyone know where Paul was quoting this passage in Ephesians 5:

' Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.'

I can't find this anywhere in the Old Testament as contained in our modern day English Bibles. I have a theory that this passage must have came from the Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament. I've found passages in Isaiah usuing our current English bibles that have a few of the same words (awake, sleeper, etc.), but nothing recorded as Paul quotes it.

Does anyone know?

Joe

By the way brother Joel. Remember that I love you. My seven hugs to you.

Hi Joe,

The cross reference in my Bible links Eph.5:14 with...

Isa.60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

Rose

[Rose]

Joe, the one thing that I know about you is........you are consistently persistent in your insistance to describe the resurrection.

It, the resurrection, is a physical standing up...........your body, which was reclining in sleep, stands up. anastasis.........which is not used by Paul in Ephesians.

Paul is using figurative language to describe us......and he uses anistemi, the verb.......to cause to stand up. We are to see ourselves as dead.....and then to see ourselves as alive, and standing again, so that we can walk and serve him.

You may say that this is a spiritual resurrection if you like, but, don't discount the fact that there will be an actual, physical, sure enough, bona fide, dyed in the wool, come to Jesus resurrection of your body. To claim otherwise is to be one who wrestles and fights with words.

Joel

Hi Joel,

Paul speaks of only one resurrection of the body, and clearly likens it to a grain of wheat planted in the ground. When a seed is sown in the ground the plant that springs forth from that seed bears no resemblance to the seed that was planted in the soil....the same holds true for us. The fleshly body which dies will not be raised a fleshly body.

1Cor.15:35-37 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

Rose

[TheForgiven]

Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
By the way, does anyone know where Paul was quoting this passage in Ephesians 5:

' Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.'

I can't find this anywhere in the Old Testament as contained in our modern day English Bibles. I have a theory that this passage must have came from the Greek Septuagint of the Old Testament. I've found passages in Isaiah usuing our current English bibles that have a few of the same words (awake, sleeper, etc.), but nothing recorded as Paul quotes it.

Does anyone know?

Joe

By the way brother Joel. Remember that I love you. My seven hugs to you.
Hi Joe,

The cross reference in my Bible links Eph.5:14 with...

Isa.60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

Rose

Thanks sister Rose, but I was looking for a closer match to Paul's quote. I'm convinced that he was quoting from the Greek Septuagint. However, the RCC and the GOC (Greek Church) teach that Paul wasn't quoting from scripture, but from a 1st century Hymnal. But this cannot be proven sense we do not have copies of early century Hymnal's.

I tried searching for the quotes in our English Bibles, but thus far, no luck. So for now, I'm searching the Greek Septuagint to see if it exists there. We'll see; I'm certain it's there.

Joe

[basilfo]

Hi Joel,

Paul speaks of only one resurrection of the body, and clearly likens it to a grain of wheat planted in the ground. When a seed is sown in the ground the plant that springs forth from that seed bears no resemblance to the seed that was planted in the soil....the same holds true for us. The fleshly body which dies will not be raised a fleshy body.

1Cor.15:35-37 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

Rose

Hi Rose,
I’m still waiting for an explanation from those looking for a ‘physical resurrection’ to explain why Paul didn’t just say that in 1 Cor 15. Would have been the perfect place. Instead, Paul describes (in several different ways!) exactly the opposite. He calls the body the dead will have a ‘spiritual body’. It’s about as plain as it gets.

I believe the insistence on "physical" resurrection stems from the same error that confronted Jesus as He spoke about the spiritual nature of His kingdom - a kingdom which was announced by John the Baptist to be (after 400 yrs of prophetic silence) AT HAND. Many hearing that the kingdom was at hand envisioned a physical empire which would take them out of bondage and FINALLY 'restore Israel' as a powerful nation - led by their Messiah.

The restoration of Israel under the New Covenant was a far greater restoration than they could imagine. And, it would include even the Gentiles. But it would not be a 'physical' kingdom, restoring the nation of Israel to prominance. That's how man thinks. The restoration, the way God thinks, was far more spectacular, merciful, beneficial, and awe inspiring. And it could only happen through His perfect sacrifice.

Since the physical kingdom did not happen in the 1st century, you must conclude that John the Baptist was mistaken when he declared: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!" According to those looking for a physical kingdom, it turns out that it WAS NOT at hand.

Was a physical, 'fleshly', kingdom ever God's ultimate plan? If we see a physical kingdom in the teaching of John the Baptist, Jesus, and the apostles, we have to buy into the recent dispensational notion that Jesus' Plan A had to be put on hold (the prophetic 'parenthesis) when the Jews rejected him.

Of course, that shatters the foundation of our faith - God's redemptive plan for all of mankind in place before creation - which was that God would become man in order to provide the perfect sacrifice as penalty for our sin. The notion that His death and resurrection only came about because "that wicked generation" rejected Him is absurd and cannot be reconciled with many Scriptures that give the purpose of His Incarnation (Heb 9:26 to name one).

The cross (and of course His resurrection) is the focal point of all history, foundational to God’s plan to redeem all of us, and was NOT a change of plans caused by the behavior of one generation.

Sorry for the diversion, but I believe the need for resurrection of ‘physical’ bodies, or physical resurrection, or resurrection of the body (although those terms are not found anywhere in Scripture) is tied to the dispensational teaching of a future physical kingdom with it’s headquarters in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. A physical kingdom needs physical bodies. This teaching has engulfed American evangelical churches over the last 100 yrs.

Peace to you,
Dave

[basilfo]

By the way, does anyone know where Paul was quoting this passage in Ephesians 5:

' Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.'

Hi Joe,
How 'bout
Isaiah 26:19 Your dead shall live; [Together with] my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; For your dew [is like] the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead.