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  1. #1

    Mark 14:51-52 Who was this?

    Thanks for this board. I have a question about the passage here. As I was reading Mark today, I realized I had never thought much about this person who was with our Lord when the temple mob grabbed him the night he was betrayed.

    "A young man was following Him, wearing {nothing but} a linen sheet over {his} naked {body;} and they *seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked."

    The fact that he was wearing nothing but a linen sheet seems highly significant. The thought that came to me was that this was possibly one of the Angels who until that moment had guarded the path of the Lord. I looked in the other accounts in the other gospels but find no mention.

    As this is my first post I will also say thank you for this board. I don't pretend to understand very much about many of the topics here but the Bible Wheel is such a compelling model, I am continually drawn back here to look and more articles.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbrier View Post
    Thanks for this board. I have a question about the passage here. As I was reading Mark today, I realized I had never thought much about this person who was with our Lord when the temple mob grabbed him the night he was betrayed.

    "A young man was following Him, wearing {nothing but} a linen sheet over {his} naked {body;} and they *seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked."

    The fact that he was wearing nothing but a linen sheet seems highly significant. The thought that came to me was that this was possibly one of the Angels who until that moment had guarded the path of the Lord. I looked in the other accounts in the other gospels but find no mention.

    As this is my first post I will also say thank you for this board. I don't pretend to understand very much about many of the topics here but the Bible Wheel is such a compelling model, I am continually drawn back here to look and more articles.
    Hi Jeff,

    I've heard that there is a tradition that says it was John Mark, the author of the Gospel. But I don't know of anything that would support that idea. The Jerome Bible commentary lists a few other guesses:

    This enigmatic detail is found exclusively in Mk. Its purpose is elusive; but it heightens the desertion of Jesus by his own. The young man is not identified; idle conjectures have named various candidates: John the Apostle (Ambrose, Chrysostom, Bede); James, 'the brother of the Lord' (Epiphanius); John Mark (many modern commentators).
    So the one thing we know for certain is that we can not know for certain who it was. The Bible doesn't say, and people have been guessing about it since the beginning.

    My opinion is slightly different. God included this detail for a reason, but the reason was not for us to guess about the person's identity, since God did not give us that information. So what is the purpose? I would think that it is symbolic. The follower of Christ had his clothing stripped just like Christ was soon to have his stripped. And as I was pondering this, I just noticed that this idea is strengthened by the word translated as "linen cloth":

    σινδων sindon {sin-done'} of uncertain (perhaps foreign) origin;; n f AV - linen cloth 3, linen 2, fine linen 1; 6 1) linen cloth, esp. that which was fine and costly, in which the bodies of the dead were wrapped 2) thing made of fine cloth 2a) of a light and loose garment worn at night over a naked body
    This is the same word used in the next chapter when Christ was buried:

    Mark 15:46 And he bought fine linen (sindon), and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
    So it seems to me that the appearance of this linen cloth at the moment Christ was captured, and then again when He was buried, points to an intentional symbolism, though I have not developed its full meaning yet.

    As for the idea of the young man being an angel ... what made you think of that?

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post

    As for the idea of the young man being an angel ... what made you think of that?

    Richard
    Thanks Richard for the response. My thought about it possibly being an angel was my struggle with the timeline concerning our Lord being 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the earth. I thought that if this was an angel, and the angel left Him at that moment, then the clock would start that evening (the evening and the morning were the first day).

    "For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways." PS 91:11.

    "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?" Mat 26:53

    "But Jesus answered and said, "Stop! No more of this." And He touched his ear and healed him." Luke 22:51

    The fact that one of the number had a sword and struck a blow in defense of the Lord seems to fit the role of the angels. It also makes sense that the mob would try to lay hands on the one who did it.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbrier View Post
    Thanks Richard for the response. My thought about it possibly being an angel was my struggle with the timeline concerning our Lord being 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the earth. I thought that if this was an angel, and the angel left Him at that moment, then the clock would start that evening (the evening and the morning were the first day).

    "For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways." PS 91:11.

    "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?" Mat 26:53

    "But Jesus answered and said, "Stop! No more of this." And He touched his ear and healed him." Luke 22:51

    The fact that one of the number had a sword and struck a blow in defense of the Lord seems to fit the role of the angels. It also makes sense that the mob would try to lay hands on the one who did it.
    Ah, I get you. You feel that the time should be an exact 72 hours? Why do you think that? I know this issue has bothered a LOT of brothers and sisters over the years. Hundreds of "solutions" have been suggested so that people could work out the exact sequence of events of the Passion Week. But the fact that people have been working on it for two thousand years without a definite solution pretty much tells me God did not intend for us to worry about it, or He would have made the answer more accessible.

    I tend to think that God did not intend for us to understand His Word with that kind of extreme literalism anyway. It seems to me that He used a lot of symbolism, like saying Jesus is a Door and Lamb and the Bright Morning Star. So when I read God's Word, I feel like I am reading the words of someone smarter than any human author I have ever read, and since I have never known a human author who would expect me to interpret his poetic language literally, I don't expect it from God either.

    The whole question about how to interpret the symbols and forms of speech in the Bible is extremely important and very interesting. I look forward to learning what you think about it.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Ah, I get you. You feel that the time should be an exact 72 hours? Why do you think that? Richard
    Not necessarily exactly 72 hours but definitely 3 days and three nights.

    "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. "
    Mat 12:40

    Starting the time at the moment he was taken by the mob makes the timeline fit nicely. The heart of the earth then would not just mean his burial but the heart of the earth would be the wicked power of the Temple elete and Roman power into whose hand he was delivered.

    Jeff

  6. #6
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    Hi Jeff & Richard,

    I just want to jump in real quick conc. this confusing issue about
    3 days and 3 nights / 72 hours. In my studies in Judaism I came
    across information (maybe in their Pentateuch), that by the Jewish
    calculations, any part of the day is considered to be a full day,
    thus the maximum time Jesus would have to be in the tomb would be
    1 hr (or less) for the first day - 24 hours for the second day - and one hour or less for the 3rd day - so let's say 26 hours as a minimum - and it would be considered as 3 days and 3 nights. I'll try to dig up the information in the next few days, as time allows.

    Shalom to Jerusalem and the Holy Land
    Shalom among Jews, Christians and Muslims with Y'SHUA / JESUS in the
    Heart of all
    White
    "According to the law almost everything is purified by blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Hebrews 9:22

    "Cleanse me with hyssop, that I may be pure; wash me, make me whiter than snow" Psalm 51:9

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    Hi Jeff & Richard,

    I just want to jump in real quick conc. this confusing issue about
    3 days and 3 nights / 72 hours. In my studies in Judaism I came
    across information (maybe in their Pentateuch), that by the Jewish
    calculations, any part of the day is considered to be a full day,
    thus the maximum time Jesus would have to be in the tomb would be
    1 hr (or less) for the first day - 24 hours for the second day - and one hour or less for the 3rd day - so let's say 26 hours as a minimum - and it would be considered as 3 days and 3 nights. I'll try to dig up the information in the next few days, as time allows.

    Shalom to Jerusalem and the Holy Land
    Shalom among Jews, Christians and Muslims with Y'SHUA / JESUS in the
    Heart of all
    White
    Thanks White,

    That's how most folks understand the three days - they encompass at least some portion of three separate days. I think that's probably correct. I agree with Greenbrier that it was really three days, just not necessarily exactly 72 hours. Pretty much anything between 26 and 72 hours works so along as it spans part of three days.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbrier View Post
    Not necessarily exactly 72 hours but definitely 3 days and three nights.

    "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. "
    Mat 12:40

    Starting the time at the moment he was taken by the mob makes the timeline fit nicely. The heart of the earth then would not just mean his burial but the heart of the earth would be the wicked power of the Temple elete and Roman power into whose hand he was delivered.

    Jeff
    OK - that makes sense to me, although I myself don't feel a need to match the time-line that precisely. What is your motivation? Is it just curiosity, or does this issue tie in with something else you are studying?

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    OK - that makes sense to me, although I myself don't feel a need to match the time-line that precisely. What is your motivation? Is it just curiosity, or does this issue tie in with something else you are studying?

    Richard
    No the question is not related to any other study. I was just reading thru Mark and noticed the man in linen and began wondering and then my mind wondered on to the idea of the time line etc) so I said "why not ask the bulletin board". A curiosity? Yes. But also the need to have an answer if an unbeliever challenges based on a perceived error in the time line. I lalso love finding nuggets of the Word that I haven't mullled over and then doing so.

    Jeff

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
    by the Jewish
    calculations, any part of the day is considered to be a full day,
    thus the maximum time Jesus would have to be in the tomb would be
    1 hr (or less) for the first day - 24 hours for the second day - and one hour or less for the 3rd day - so let's say 26 hours as a minimum - and it would be considered as 3 days and 3 nights.

    White
    Interesting additional info, White. There are so many things I'll bet I'd understand better if I knew more about the Jewish culture of the period. Thanks.

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