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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We have to weight several factors to establish the link between the Gospels and the Beasts/Kingdoms. Yes, Mark was probably written in Rome, but that isn't the only factor into play here. What about the places where the other Gospels were located? Do they show a pattern that can be associated with the kingdoms/Gospels correlation? It seems that this fact by itself doesn't establish a clear link.

    We should look for the overall gist. In favor of Mark, there is the primary audience, which was Roman. In favor of John, there are the many references to Rome's face in the land of Jesus (viz, Pilate) and the only mention of "Romans" in the four Gospels. "Caesar" seems to play a distinctive role as well, as I explained in "Princes have persecuted me". John is governed by Shin (Tooth) and the Roman beast had "iron teeth".

    The connection between Mark and Rome may come up in another level of the structure. Like, if we try to establish a link within the Synoptics and Rome, Mark stands out. For example, the three languages written on the superscription above the Cross seem to relate to the Synoptics in the following way: Hebrew - Matthew, Latin - Mark, Greek - Luke. Maybe there's a link between Mark and West in the four directions correlation. Or maybe in some other context, time will tell.

    In a nutshell: "Rome" is of course important in all four Gospels, but in John it seems that the connection is stronger and somewhat distinctive for the reasons explained above.



    The word "Roman" appears in NIV only as a supplementary word added for understanding; it is not in the Greek text.

    Well, you can always use the search engine here at Bible Wheel, Blue Letter Bible, Search God's Word or even your own! :lol:
    Peter is mentioned to go places where he doesn't want to go in the last chapter of John. We suspect it's Rome but it's uncertain.

    Look at how confident Paul was when he was shipwrecked...because God had promised he would go to Rome as well. How many trips did Paul make? The last was from Jerusalem to Rome but I think they stopped by Malta.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Peter is mentioned to go places where he doesn't want to go in the last chapter of John. We suspect it's Rome but it's uncertain.

    Look at how confident Paul was when he was shipwrecked...because God had promised he would go to Rome as well. How many trips did Paul make? The last was from Jerusalem to Rome but I think they stopped by Malta.
    I think you meant to post the above on another thread.

    We are currently discussing Peter and Paul being at Rome at the topic Has the Apostle Peter been in Rome?.

  3. #73
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    Actually come to think of it:
    Daniel 2
    44
    And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
    45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
    The 4 kingdoms are broken at once.

    The 4 gospels line up with the 4 beasts of Daniel 7:

    1. The Lion with Matthew: Matthew is the only gospel to mention the Babylonian captivity. Jesus is the prophesied king.
    2. The Bear with Mark: although Medo-Persia isn't mentioned in Mark both the bear and the gospel mention to raise up.
    3. The 4 headed and winged Leopard matches Luke as Luke is often thought to be Greek and writes his gospel in a chronological order.
    4. Then the 4th beast matches John's gospel. I search the word Roman and found 1 match in the 4 gospels: John:

    John 11
    48
    If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
    But in John 18 Jesus asked whom seek ye? The soldier said Jesus of Nazareth. He said I am he and they fell backwards. So the Romans
    don't stand a chance against Christ. In fact Jesus commanded them to let the disciples go.

    So the synoptic gospels line up with the 3 synoptic beasts (they're similar because they can be described). John was different and so was the 4th Kingdom (diverse).

    This way the Gospel hit every kingdom at once. I wonder if Acts illustrates just that. It begins with Jerusalem and God scatters the believers abroad. At the end of the book Paul is in chains in Rome after a long trip from Jerusalem. And the next book is Romans. But in Philippians he mentions to have preached to Caesar's household right?

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Actually come to think of it:


    The 4 kingdoms are broken at once.

    The 4 gospels line up with the 4 beasts of Daniel 7:

    1. The Lion with Matthew: Matthew is the only gospel to mention the Babylonian captivity. Jesus is the prophesied king.
    2. The Bear with Mark: although Medo-Persia isn't mentioned in Mark both the bear and the gospel mention to raise up.
    3. The 4 headed and winged Leopard matches Luke as Luke is often thought to be Greek and writes his gospel in a chronological order.
    4. Then the 4th beast matches John's gospel. I search the word Roman and found 1 match in the 4 gospels: John:



    But in John 18 Jesus asked whom seek ye? The soldier said Jesus of Nazareth. He said I am he and they fell backwards. So the Romans
    don't stand a chance against Christ. In fact Jesus commanded them to let the disciples go.

    So the synoptic gospels line up with the 3 synoptic beasts (they're similar because they can be described). John was different and so was the 4th Kingdom (diverse).

    This way the Gospel hit every kingdom at once. I wonder if Acts illustrates just that. It begins with Jerusalem and God scatters the believers abroad. At the end of the book Paul is in chains in Rome after a long trip from Jerusalem. And the next book is Romans. But in Philippians he mentions to have preached to Caesar's household right?
    Excellent summary, brother!

    Yes, in a sense "the Gospel hit every kingdom at once". You have an anticipation of that on the very day of Pentecost:
    Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
    Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
    Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
    The Gospel then spread throughout all the areas dominated by the former empires. These regions were under the dominion of Rome. Rome was hit and the shockwave of the stone's collision on the feet of the statue pulverized the old order with the Sword of the Word.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    But in Philippians he mentions to have preached to Caesar's household right?
    That's right! Paul wrote from Rome:
    Php 4:22 All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar's household.
    We learn then that the Gospel message had reached even people within Nero's "household," that is, maybe some of his domestics, officers or perhaps even relatives. The Stone hit the heart of the Empire.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It's complicated... You see, Nebuchadnezzar praised the Lord Most High but he also did bad things. So Ahasuerus is depicted as a fair king in the book of Esther but he is persuaded to kill a whole kindred. People are like that, specially powerful people.
    Here's a list of Persian kings from the bible:
    Words Searched For: king of persia
    Ezra 4
    3
    But Zerubbabel, and Jeshua, and the rest of the chief of the fathers of Israel, said unto them, Ye have nothing to do with us to build an house unto our God; but we ourselves together will build unto the LORD God of Israel, as king Cyrus the king of Persia hath commanded us.
    5 And hired counsellors against them, to frustrate their purpose, all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius king of Persia.
    6 And in the reign of Ahasuerus, in the beginning of his reign, wrote they unto him an accusation against the inhabitants of Judah and Jerusalem.
    7 And in the days of Artaxerxes wrote Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of their companions, unto Artaxerxes king of Persia; and the writing of the letter was written in the Syrian tongue, and interpreted in the Syrian tongue.
    24 Then ceased the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem. So it ceased unto the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.
    So the list of Kings in order is:
    1. Cyrus;
    2. Ahasuerus;
    3. Artaxerxes;
    4. Darius
    Last edited by gilgal; 04-20-2010 at 07:48 PM.

  7. #77
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    After the captivity many Jews were living abroad. I think it was necessary to have an international language to write the New Testament and to reach out to them. That came from the 3rd beast.

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