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  1. #11
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    Holy Grail

    I didn't completely answer your question as to why I think those numbers are important. I'll let you in on quite a bit more. I believe this is the path to the TRUE holy grail.....an understanding of the base of all energy and creation...the order behind the chaos. Why do I suspect this? Because I've spent over 6 years working on decoding the written and constructed works of Edward Leedskalnin who built "Coral Castle" but he called it "Rock Gate".

    www.coralcastle.com
    www.coralcastlecode.com


    That is the ONLY reason I've arrived at the doorstep of gematria, Hebrew, Latin, Greek, Torah, ciphering, sacred geometry....on and on...and on. He pointed me to the first couple chapters of Genesis as I told you earlier.

    What do I believe is important about the numbers e and phi? Ed Leedskalnin used them on the front cover of Magnetic Current for the proportions of his title page outline rectangles. He used the Metric System...and the inner height of the rectangle is 16.18 cm. high. The height of the outer circumscribng rectangle is 16.79 cm. high. Why is this important to e and phi? Well, the first height is 10 times larger than the large golden mean of 1.618. The second number is e times small phi (0.618) times 10.

    In the center of these all is two simple curves that take the form of a cup....a grail....a magnetic grail. Something that most wouldn't even notice, let alone comprehend. I've spent many years working out the equations of those curves. They involve all the sacred numbers of sacred geometry...but the most important ones involve squaring the circle constant of sqrt(1/pi), phi, pi, sqrt2, sqrt3, and e. I decoded parts of his works and he pointed me to the Torah. What a coincidence that I now find equations involving the gematria of the first 8 words of Genesis involving e and phi?

    If you think I'm the only one on the scent of this game....here's a quote from a book I own by an "Edward Marlinski" entitled "How To Read His Writings - The Unauthorized Guide to Decoding Edward Leedskalnin's Works".

    "The man known as EDL, you will find, had a diverse background in many fields of knowledge, and life experiences. He was you will discover, a true being of his time. We, as he, take the many paths in our life as it unfolds. We take the opportunities that come to us akin to a falling leaf pushed by the winds of family, jobs, love, ware, patriotism and the politics of the day. Some paths we take in our life we cannot completely control, at least not at the time they occur. As we get older, or more knowledgeable and aware of our mortality, we change. Some of us earlier than others and some of course never do. Some of us even pick up the book known as the bible and read about our ancient recorded past. Would it surprise you that it was the basis of EDL's knowledge and to all that learn how to read between its lines? If you ever read some of the passages from the bible you we see the same type of phrasing and repetition that EDL uses in his published works. As suspected, it is no coincidence. The bible, remember was the word of God put to print on paper by man, for man to read and understand. .... As children, we first had to learn how to read, so we could learn on our own. So, as you learn how to read EDL's writings, EDL, in his fashion, wil show you the way to his secrets, as he shows you how to read his writings too. So, did you find the words ROCK and GATE?" Edward Marlinski (bold added)

    So, this is why I'm here and what motivates me for quite a few years now. I have been finding his secrets...and now I've been finding the secrets in the Torah...because it seems that was the source of his secrets in the first place. This is the only man in history to publicly claim to have discovered the secrets of the Egyptian Pyramids and Mayan Pyramids....and the only one to PROVE it!. He single-handedly built Rock Gate with stones larger than the pyramids....cut....and erected them.

    Now, I know there are dogmatites right now shaking their head and thinking I'm reading the Bible for the wrong reasons. You're entitled to your opinion...and so am I. I've been there and done that many years also.
    Last edited by RockGate; 10-23-2009 at 04:16 PM.

  2. #12
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    Hey there David,

    You have introduced many ideas that I have never explored, and many that I am quite familiar with. It will take a little time to get to know each other.

    My original interest in numbers arose from my studies of traditional mathematics and physics (I have degrees in both). I studied Quantum Physics which is, as you probably know, a very abstract mathematical formalism that is currently our best theory of the nature of physical reality. Then when I was about 31 I began a spiritual quest and got interested in every spiritual idea under the sun. In 1990 I had a series of very significant dreams that involved numbers that made sense in light of Hebrew gematria. After a while, my studies led me to believe that the Bible was the inspired Word of God, and this led to a slow awakening to the awareness that Christ is Lord and I discovered I was a Christian.

    My study of the symbolic meanings of the Hebrew Letters, Gematria and Numerical Geometry are all integrated. I believe that they reveal the Archetypes underlying Reality, the Eternal Ideas from the Mind of God that explain the meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything. This sounds similar to your quest for "the underlying order of the chaos."

    So ... since we are of a similar mentality, I think we probably will be able to help each other in our mutual quest.

    I will review the things you have written and answer more.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockGate View Post
    So, this is why I'm here and what motivates me for quite a few years now. I have been finding his secrets...and now I've been finding the secrets in the Torah...because it seems that was the source of his secrets in the first place. This is the only man in history to publicly claim to have discovered the secrets of the Egyptian Pyramids and Mayan Pyramids....and the only one to PROVE it!. He single-handedly built Rock Gate with stones larger than the pyramids....cut....and erected them.
    Hummm ... I took a look at the sites you posted, but I didn't find anything like "proof" presented there - on the contrary, I found only "mystery" and "secrets." And these are things for which I have little patience. If someone had real proof, why hide it all in mystery?

    My first thought about "how he did it" is simple - you can move a great mass if you do it slowly enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by RockGate View Post
    Now, I know there are dogmatites right now shaking their head and thinking I'm reading the Bible for the wrong reasons. You're entitled to your opinion...and so am I. I've been there and done that many years also.
    Don't worry about "dogma" here. Most folks are involved in discussions concerning hermeneutics, not dogmatics.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockGate View Post
    Proof? From the snippet of words you quoted, I think there is a misunderstanding. The only thing that I alluded to "proof" was Ed Leedskalnin's claim that he discovered the Secrets of how the ancients built very large structures with very primitive tools. You don't need to go to a website for that proof. You only need to go to Coral Castle in Homestead, Florida. I've been there many times and performed 6 measurements, surveys, and scale drawings in CAD. I know just about every inch of it...above ground.
    I was specifically replying to your statement that "This is the only man in history to publicly claim to have discovered the secrets of the Egyptian Pyramids and Mayan Pyramids....and the only one to PROVE it!. He single-handedly built Rock Gate with stones larger than the pyramids....cut....and erected them." It seemed to me that you had made an extraordinary claim about a man being the only person in history to discover and "PROVE" how the pyramids were built. I was only trying to say that the mere existence of Rock Gate does not constitute proof of your claim, and there is no info on the sites that you linked that have any proof either.

    Quote Originally Posted by RockGate View Post
    You don't like mysteries? OK.
    I LOVE the genuine mysteries of REALITY. I just don't like man-made "mysteries" and "secrets" about "sectret knowledge" and all that. Truth is Light. If they had any Truth, they would not hide it in "occultism."

    Quote Originally Posted by RockGate View Post
    Really, it matters nothing to me what you or anyone else thinks of this man's works or mine.
    I have not formed any opinion of either yet. I don't know you or Ed well enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by RockGate View Post
    I'm simply here trying to find answers to questions I"m not even conciously aware of yet. In the meantime, I'm aware that I'm not led places simply to get answers, but also to provide answers to others if I can.
    I look forward to learning more from you!

    Quote Originally Posted by RockGate View Post
    I personally do have "time for mysteries"....I believe I'm in search of the things that were taught in the ancient "mystery" schools. However, as you seem to suggest, I haven't joined any organized group to find these things. I think I feel the same about this topic that Socrates did when he chose not to join the Eleusian Mysteries.
    There is some value in learning about all the "mystery schools" - years ago I read a lot of that liturature. Much of it grew out of Christian mysticism in the middle ages. But it looks pretty goofy and immature to me now. Like some high-school kids pretending to be statesmen. The real problem is that they seem to be "ever learning, but never coming to a knowledge of the truth."

    Quote Originally Posted by RockGate View Post
    Am I a Christian? I think so, but choose not to talk of such things with anyone else at this time. As I said, I spent many years dedicated to such nonsense. I was brought up a Mormon, graduated from BYU, and served a 2 year mission in England/Wales. To me, my faith is my own business and no one else's but God's. I'm very wary of those who love to push any doctrine or faith....for I've found it's usually for their benefit and not yours.
    Very interesting, Thanks for sharing ... it's good to get to know a little about you and your background. Don't worry - there'll be no inquisition here.

    Quote Originally Posted by RockGate View Post
    Actually, my near death experience involved a voice that told me that my religion was boxing me in and that the things I was looking for were in the world and that I should "look to the East". Interestingly enough, this is the first sentence of "Magnetic Current" by Edward Leedskalnin. "This writing is lined up so when you read it you look East". I also am very impressed with the use of "East" in Genesis and the rest of the Bible...particularly in relationship to the Tree of Life. This is definitely one mystery I am determined to solve because my NDE stressed this point. You have any insight to this?
    What is the most significant thing you have learned from Ed's writings? What would I benefit by reading them?

    Great to be chatting,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockGate View Post
    I read your introduction where you said that you can "proove" that we are all fallen angels in the text of the Bible. Please understand. I'm not in any way trying to discredit that...as a matter of fact, I came to a similar conclusion on my own....with a great deal of pondering and looking around me.
    Huh??? I have never written anything about us being "fallen angels" - what exactly did you read? Can you post a link? You have me mystified.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #16
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    The Torah Beyond the Beginning

    just sharing info from Jeffrey Meiliken

    There are strict laws in recreating a Torah that a scribe must follow meticulously or the Torah isn’t kosher, in other words completely invalid. For example, each of the 304,805 letters, comprised of exactly (600,000-408) component letters must be formed fully and perfectly and in the precise order; one deviation and the entire document is nullified. He does, though, have a little leeway in how many letters, grouped into specific words, verses, and paragraphs to place on each line, put just so long as each of the columns begin at specific places. This means he can stretch certain letters within guidelines and also stretch the space between some of the letters again within guidelines.

    Nevertheless, in the end there will be 42 rows of spaces and letters, let’s call them collectively “character spaces” in each column, and either 245 or 248 columns per page, as there are always two points of view in Judaism. The standard is 248 columns, corresponding most fittingly numerically to “womb” and “mercy” and “Abraham,” considering that the sum of the Names of the 5 Books in the Torah is 2480. But enough gematria, we’ll explore the significance of 245 columns, and also 246 columns, after we tackle the matrix formed by the 248 columns by 42 rows.

    There is nothing left to chance in the Torah, also known as The 5 Books of Moses, everything has a special “harmonic” alignment and thus purpose. The total number of 304,805 letters, 79,975 words and 5845 verses collectively equals 390,625 or 58. That would appear to be more than an accident, right? Exactly 5 raised to the power of 8. Try just calculating that in your head, 5 x 5, now 5 again, now 5 again, again and again 8 times, let alone keeping track of all those letters, words, and verses.

    But what if all the letters and the empty “white fire” spaces, in other words, the character spaces in that same 248 x 42 matrix also totaled 390,625 or 58?

    Thus focused and ascending, let’s continued beyond, where we recall the words of Rabbi Chaim Vital of blessed memory that all Torah light is spread by squaring, and thus we can now see how this matrix of white and black fire was unfolded into Creation. Working backwards, we can take the square root of 390,625, which is 625, then do it again (25) and again (5) and one more time (√5) for a total of 4 times, corresponding to the 4 Letter/levels/phases of the Tetragrammaton (YHVH).
    (√5)2 = 5 and 52 = 25 and 252 = 625 and 6252 = 390,625
    It’s not called the 5 Books of Moses for nothing.

    This square root of 5 is no arbitrary number, not by a long shot. Yes, on the surface it’s just some endless irrational number 2.2360… but so is Pi. Nevertheless, √5 appears to have been chosen to define the primordial existence that gave birth to Creation and thus physicality in the formation of the Torah matrix. A bold statement for sure, but the mathematicians are already smiling because they already know what’s coming next.

    It turns out our physicality is indeed defined by the square root of 5. For you see the (√5) is at the heart of the primordial mathematical constant Phi, which controls (dictates) all natural spiraling growth in nature from the petals on the flowers, the branches on the trees, the twisting of seashells, our DNA, and arms of the Milky Way.
    (√5 – 1)/2 = Phi (.61803399…)
    and also
    (√5 +1)/2 = Phi2 (1.61803399…)

    And reminiscent of the essential Kabbalistic equation, “He and His Name are One”

    we have the reason why the square root of 5 creates natural growth.
    (√5 – 1)/2 x (√5 + 1)/2 = 1
    or
    Phi x Phi2 = 1
    Extrapolating from 1, we get 4
    (√5 – 1) x (√5 + 1) = 4
    From Unity to the YHVH

    So, G-d took this sacred space or dimension and unfolded it 4 times before shaping it into a matrix of 248 by 42 in a proportion of about 6 columns to every row, the same proportion (59%) of verses in the Torah that begin with the letter Vav of numerical value 6. Which leads us to the filling of that matrix, going from a potential state to a physical one, the point of Creation.

    After the matrix was filled with swirling white and black fire in very specific quantities, both of which as we’ve seen tie back to the square root of 5, the black fire was arranged according to G-d’s Name, YHVH.

  7. #17
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    Difference in letter count in Torah

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    David brought up the question of the number of letters in the Torah, and why there was a difference between the list presented on aishdas.org and my database which is derived from the BHS (4th edition). I don't know which document aishdas used, but here is the results of a comparison I produced today:




    In my analysis I found that four letters had exactly the same frequency as reported by aishdas, and ten had a difference between 1 and 3. So the documents are very close. But there is a big mystery concerning the distribution of Vav, Yod, Mem, Nun, and Tzaddi which have differences of 24, 34, 12, 21 and -90, respectively. The last value is very strange. I triple checked my results since it seems impossible that there could be a difference of 90 Tzaddis in the two documents. I suspect that the number reported by aishdas is a mistake.

    So there's the data.







    Richard




    Hi,

    I was looking for who had the accurate letter count in the torah as I too have found various annswers that were different.
    And then i did a web search and found this web site which seems to be a great site for sharing info and trading ideas that I have come up with.
    Its better when you have more than one brain working on a sollution to some problem or sharing an insight that one may have stumbled upon with another person who may add to that insight and thus solve the mystery.

    tommy58103

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy58103 View Post
    Hi,

    I was looking for who had the accurate letter count in the torah as I too have found various annswers that were different.
    And then i did a web search and found this web site which seems to be a great site for sharing info and trading ideas that I have come up with.
    Its better when you have more than one brain working on a sollution to some problem or sharing an insight that one may have stumbled upon with another person who may add to that insight and thus solve the mystery.

    tommy58103
    Hey there Tommy!

    Welcome to our forum.



    I think it would be great if we could gather together all the data about the text of the Torah here in one place. Many folks just go with the standard answer of 304805 letters, but I don't even know which version they are using to get that number. I'd like to find electronic files for all the dominant versions of the Tanakh so we could get some definitive answers.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy58103 View Post
    Hi again,

    I've finished my chart on the count of Torah letters in the WLC Hebrew Bible but I cannot transfer my chart to this webpage and keeping its chart form.
    Is this impossible to do?
    How did you get your chart to display properly?
    Thank-you.

    It opens perfectly in word document.

    tommy58103
    Hi Tommy,

    You can copy and paste tables from Word or Excel. I just tried it and got this:

    1 2 3
    4 5 6

    To get the borders, you can click on any cell in the table (to give it focus) and then click on the second button from the left on the bottom row of the icons in the toolbar of the editor and select the "full grid" option.

    Name:  table_options.gif
Views: 315
Size:  12.0 KB



    Don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions. I look forward to reviewing your data.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy58103 View Post
    my reply looks good before I post it.But it doesnt want to put data in columns but only rows.
    my email is tommy58103@yahoo.com
    Hey there Tommy,

    Send me the file in an email and I'll see if I can post it for you in a table.

    richard@biblewheel.com

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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