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  1. #21
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    Jun 2007
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    Yakima, Wa
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    Quote Originally Posted by joel View Post
    Amen.....we all three agree. Joel
    Hey Joel!

    I found us a couple smilies.

    You are a PeaceMaker .....

    I am a Bike rider .....
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    That logic is flawed. Jesus spoke specifically about the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in the Gospels, and the events he spoke of happened in 70 AD. Therefore, there is no "speculation" involved in using the date "70 AD" when discussing these facts.

    The futurist position is entirely different. That position is based on speculations about things that simply are not found in the Bible. Case in point - the "second coming of Elijah" before the "second coming of the Lord." There is nothing in the Bible that specifically states any such event, so it is based on speculation, pure and simple.

    This is the fundamental difference between preterism and futurism. The former is founded upon what the Bible actually states, the latter is founded on nothing.


    The "big deal" is that speculation is easily confused with facts, and this leads to false or unsupported doctrines being taught as truth. And this leads to the rejection of the faith as obviously false by unbelievers who listen to the false teachings and failed speculations of the futurists.

    In short, the "big deal" is that the truth of what the Bible really teaches is of the utmost importance. Too much speculation destroys the testimony of truth that God proclaims in His Word.


    The idea of "having much influence" has nothing to do with which is true, and which is false.

    There is no comparison between preterists and futurists on this point. Preterists have never changed the fundamental understanding that the words of Christ in the Olivet Discourse were true and fulfilled. Futurists, on the other hand, make new predictions every year, and have always been wrong. The difference between them is the difference between night and day, truth and falsehood.


    And on this point we agree completely! Let us rejoice!



    Richard
    Hey my dear,

    You forgot to mention the "second desecration" of the "second rebuilt temple", before the "second coming of Elijah" followed by the "second coming of Jesus"......


    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hey my dear,

    You forgot to mention the "second desecration" of the "second rebuilt temple", before the "second coming of Elijah" followed by the "second coming of Jesus"......


    Rose
    And we must not forget the "second coming of the Roman empire" - I mean somebody is gonna have to re-desolate the re-built Temple.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Hey Joel!

    I found us a couple smilies.

    You are a PeaceMaker .....

    I am a Bike rider .....
    Priceless........

    can you find a runner? I need to get back into the grove but ever since my heart issue I have refrained....but surely miss it.

    The dove with moving wings while holding the olive branch is a classic.....are you a Lance wannabe?......or a serious biker? I can't imagine you taking anything at a basic level.......will I see you in France on the TV?......team BibleWheel!

    Joel
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38,39

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by joel View Post
    Priceless........

    can you find a runner? I need to get back into the grove but ever since my heart issue I have refrained....but surely miss it.

    The dove with moving wings while holding the olive branch is a classic.....are you a Lance wannabe?......or a serious biker? I can't imagine you taking anything at a basic level.......will I see you in France on the TV?......team BibleWheel!

    Joel
    Here's one for you bro ... but I need to make its background transparent to be best ...



    I was a very a very serious some years ago. I rode all the way from Seattle to LA and back. It was a wonderful experience. I also used to commute to my job at GE in Seattle most days. It was a 30 mile round trip. But I've slowed down a bit in the last year. I've only got 2000 miles on my bike that I bought two years ago! So I won't be competing with Lance in France, and I guess that means I won't see the rain in Spain that falls mainly in the plain ...

    I did my big bike ride before discovering the Bible Wheel. I guess it was some sort of typological prophecy ....
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #26
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    Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
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    deleted post

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Here's one for you bro ... but I need to make its background transparent to be best ...



    I was a very a very serious some years ago. I rode all the way from Seattle to LA and back. It was a wonderful experience. I also used to commute to my job at GE in Seattle most days. It was a 30 mile round trip. But I've slowed down a bit in the last year. I've only got 2000 miles on my bike that I bought two years ago! So I won't be competing with Lance in France, and I guess that means I won't see the rain in Spain that falls mainly in the plain ...

    I did my big bike ride before discovering the Bible Wheel. I guess it was some sort of typological prophecy ....
    Priceless.

    Thanks, RAM, the bicycle man,..........now your insights into the Biblewheel have a real life practical application.

    Let me know when the runner emiticon is finished.

    Joel
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38,39

  8. #28
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    Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
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    Jeremiah 23:33
    And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.

    Jeremiah 23:34
    And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the LORD, I will even punish that man and his house.


    Do we have examples in the bible of such prophets? you bet we do

    Zechariah 9:1
    The burden of the word of the LORD in the land of Hadrach, and Damascus shall be the rest thereof: when the eyes of man, as of all the tribes of Israel, shall be toward the LORD.

    Malachi 1:1
    The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

    &&

    Revelation 2:2
    I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

    Do we have examples in the bible of people who say they are apostles? We certainly do - namely Paul and Peter. Is it so much of a stretch to consider these men as the men God may have been referring to in Revelation 2:2? No no no!

  9. #29
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    Ottawa, Ontario - Canada
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    last chapter of the bible
    last page of the bible

    Revelation 22:14 - Blessed are they that do His commandments,...
    If you're leaning on Paul's writings as justification for not keeping the commandments let me paraphrase the above scripture fragment

    Not blessed are they that do not His commandments

    - time to move on to better things

  10. #30
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    The question I am most interested in is how you could convince yourself that only two of the 27 NT books are valid, and the rest corrupt. That seems like an impossible position to support with any logic or facts.
    facts - okay let's start with the gospels. We seem to have four accounts of what Jesus did and said. Not all the gospels write about the same things that Jesus did or said, but there are some instances where they do. In these instances their accounts should be IDENTICAL - after all they are witnessing the same event.

    So a question of fact - Who carried the cross of Jesus?

    According to Mathew, Mark, and Luke it wasn't Jesus.

    Mathew 27:31,32: And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him. And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.
    Mark 15:21: And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.
    Luke 23:26: And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.

    According to John it was Jesus who carried His own cross

    John 19:16,17: Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away. And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
    Lets the words speak for themselves. This is not a translation problem. This is not a "context" problem that so often gets mentioned. It is a different account altogether of what happened.

    So who carried the cross of Jesus?

    Because I adhere to the gospel of John I say Jesus did.
    Last edited by derekkye; 10-10-2009 at 12:07 PM.

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