the ten horns

**gilgal** · 07-15-2009, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock

the sea (Revelation 13)are two different entities. Since Revelation 17 mentions the beast instead of the dragon, I would presume that the seven heads with 10 crowns refer to the Beast of Revelation 13 that rise out from the sea and not the huge red dragon.

It's as if the beast was made to be in the image of the dragon (with some difference). Add to that the second beast who speaks like the dragon...

**CWH** · 07-16-2009, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by gilgal

It's as if the beast was made to be in the image of the dragon (with some difference). Add to that the second beast who speaks like the dragon...

HI gilgal,

This is what Revelation 13 : 11-14 said,
"11Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived."

It did not say to make an image of the dragon but of the beast who was wounded by the sword but yet lived. The verse probably means that one of the leading country or head of state of EU or EUNATO is severely damaged or wounded by war but survived. The image was made in commemoration of the event.

I do not know how the dragon spoke, but the verse "he spoke like a dragon" probably means that the dragon and the 2nd beast spoke in a language that is different from the Europeans perhaps Arabic or some Asian or Oriental language or perhaps with an Arabic, Asian or Oriental accent.

God Blessings to you.

**gilgal** · 07-16-2009, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock

HI gilgal,

This is what Revelation 13 : 11-14 said,
"11Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived."

It did not say to make an image of the dragon but of the beast who was wounded by the sword but yet lived. The verse probably means that one of the leading country or head of state of EU or EUNATO is severely damaged or wounded by war but survived. The image was made in commemoration of the event.

I do not know how the dragon spoke, but the verse "he spoke like a dragon" probably means that the dragon and the 2nd beast spoke in a language that is different from the Europeans perhaps Arabic or some Asian or Oriental language or perhaps with an Arabic, Asian or Oriental accent.

God Blessings to you.

God made man in his image. And the Dragon made the beast in his image. Actually the 1st beast looks like the Dragon (7 heads and 10 horns, even though it differs in where the crowns are and the animal-like body parts) and the 2nd beast didn't look like the Dragon (like a lamb) but spoke like the Dragon.

**CWH** · 07-16-2009, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by gilgal

God made man in his image. And the Dragon made the beast in his image. Actually the 1st beast looks like the Dragon (7 heads and 10 horns, even though it differs in where the crowns are and the animal-like body parts) and the 2nd beast didn't look like the Dragon (like a lamb) but spoke like the Dragon.

Hi gilgal,

The Dragon has 7 heads, 7 crowns and 10 horns whereas the 1st beast has 7 heads, 10 horns and 10 crowns. The 1st beast looks like the Dragon because if taking the 1st beast to be EU and the Dragon to be the Arab League, both will looks like a Revived Roman Empire and a Revived Islamic Empire respectively. There are many similarities between the EU and the Arab League:
1) The EU and Arab league (AL) are both economic and defence bloc.
2) The EU is predominantly Christian and European, the AL is predominantly Muslim and Arab
3) Both were formed almost immediately after 2nd World War. They are formed to "counter act" each other... Arabs have the AL, Europeans have the EU.
4) Both are huge in terms of land and population size.
5) The EU including the US supports Israel whereas the AL supports the Palestinians
6) The EU have 27 member states (10, 10,7) whereas the AL have 22 member states with a possibility of increasing to 24 (10, 7, 7)
7) The AL started with 6 nations with Yemen joining a few months later: the EU also started with 6 nations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_League

If the 2nd beast is China and the Dragon is AL; they certainly do not look alike. Their languages Chinese and Arabic are also different from the Europeans which is mainly derived from Latin and Germanic.

The 2nd Beast does not look like a lamb but it has 2 horns which looks like lamb's horns suggest the 2 small nations (horn) that supported the 2nd beast (lamb's horn is smaller that that of a cow). The 2 horns could be Hong Kong and Macau which joined China in 1997 and 1999 respectively. If not, then there is a possibility of 2 other small nations that will join the "China League" in future....?Japan, ?Taiwan, ?Korea.

God Blessings to you.

**CWH** · 07-18-2009, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by gilgal

What puzzles me is that looking at Revelation 12 and 13 we find crowns on either the heads or the horns.

Now the heads may be the military might (?). And the heads?

Switzerland is interesting being specialized in banking.

Someone was about to write a fictional book on EU being founded by Nazi members. He did a research on the net and found it to be true.

Hi gilgal,

Thanks for your info. I manage to make some finds in the Net that suggest connections between the founding of EU and Nazi members:

http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/b...rchitects.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/alex-jon...of-the-eu.html

http://www.bloggernews.net/118736

If this is true, then the EU is not as innocent as it looks; a sheep in wolf's clothing. In other words, EU is a Beast as it has a sinister element that murdered a few million Jews in the Holocaust. Could it be related to the fifth seal of Revelation 6:

"9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed".

Or is it related to (Relevation 17:8):

6I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

As I read further in Revelation 17 : 8, the EU as a Revived Roman Empire becomes more obvious :

8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

The verse seems to mean (the Beast as EU) the Roman Empire that was once flourished, later collasped and would reappear again as the Revived Roman Empire and is going to be destroyed.

Thanks gilgal for giving me the inspiration....but what has Switzerland being specialized in banking to do with the EU? It is never a part of EU and was neutral in WW2. Can you give me further details for inspiration?

God Blessings to you.

**gilgal** · 07-18-2009, 01:09 PM

Switzerland not part of EU? Oh I thought it was one of them.

The reason I'm interested in it is that since they're specialized in banking and part of it speak French , part German, part Italian (any other nationality?) they are between these nations. Their neutrality kept them in business. If any attack would've been made to this country it might have ended many wars or even prevent starting one. Don't you think?

**CWH** · 07-19-2009, 08:20 AM

Hi gilgal,

Switzerland is not part of EU but is a member of another European economic bloc call EFTA (European Free Trade Association). EFTA has special trade relationships with EU. The Swiss voted themselves out of EU. The main reason why Switzerland kept their neutrality was that they did not want to join WW2 which will only brought hardship to its people. Keeping neutral maintained their friendly relationship with the Allies and the Axis and allowed the Swiss to live peacefully.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzer...European_Union

Your thought is too profound.

. Switzerland being a small country in terms of economic, industrial and military powers would have little effect on the outcome of WW2 whichever side it might want to join. I don't think attacks on Switzerland would have brought an end to WW2 or shape the history of the world taking into consideration Hitler's ambition to conquer Europe ultimately (if given the chance) and eventually the world. Therefore, how long would any country kept it's neutrality if Hitler had his ways.

Thank God, Hitler did not had his ways if not the world will be a hellish place to live in. There will not be any Jews left. It is with God's will that WW2 ended in the Allies' favor.

God Blessed.

**CWH** · 07-19-2009, 10:50 PM

Hi gilgal,

Thanks again for another inspiration when you mentioned about Switzerland.

Switzerland is a member of the 4 nation states of EFTA (European Free Trade Association). The 4 nation states of EFTA are Switzerland, Norway, Liechenstein, Iceland. Norway and Liechenstein are both monarchy nations. EFTA is a trading bloc just like EU and they have special relationship and trade agreements with EU. An inspiration occurred to me that what if EFTA and EU joined together to form a bigger trade and military bloc in order to achieve a one United Europe. Currently with 2 trading blocs running side by side doesn't project a one United Europe. By joining EFTA into EU together will create an even bigger trading bloc and add muscles to their economic, industrial and military might. And if EU were to join with NATO, its economic, military, industrial might will be unsurpassed in the world. No one can fight against the Beast, Let's call this merger the EFTAEUNATO. One of their goals is to control the world economically, militarily and politically.

The EFTAEUNATO will then comprises of 36 members states and the interesting thing is that the magical number 10(horns),10(crowns), 7(heads) of the Beast that rise out of the sea is now even more obvious; 10 militarily powerful nations of EFTAEUNATO, 10 Monarchies, 7 heads of EFTAEUNATO.

Legend: Bold = Founder members, Bold Green = Monarchy member states, Bold Red = powerful military member states:

1 Austria
2. Belgium (Monarchy) (Powerful military)
3. Bulgaria
4. Cyprus
5. Czech
6. Denmark (Monarchy)
7. Estonia
8. Finland
9. France (Powerful military)
10 Germany (Powerful military)
11. Greece (Powerful military)
12. Hungary
13. Ireland
14. Italy (Powerful military)
15. Latvia
16. Lithuania
17. Luxembourg (Monarchy)
18. Malta
19. Netherland (Monarchy)
20. Poland
21. Portugal (Powerful military)
22. Romania
23. Slovakia
24. Slovenia
25. Spain (Monarchy) (Powerful military)
26. Sweden (Monarchy)
27. UK (Monarchy) (Powerful military)
28. Albania
29. Canada (Monarchy) (Powerful military)
30. Croatia
31. Iceland
32. Norway (Monarchy)
33. Turkey
34. USA (Powerful military)
35 Switzerland
36 Liechenstein (Monarchy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...de_Association

Many Blessings.

**gilgal** · 07-19-2009, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock

Hi gilgal,

Thanks again for another inspiration when you mentioned about Switzerland.

Switzerland is a member of the 4 nation states of EFTA (European Free Trade Association). The 4 nation states of EFTA are Switzerland, Norway, Liechenstein, Iceland. Norway and Liechenstein are both monarchy nations. EFTA is a trading bloc just like EU and they have special relationship and trade agreements with EU. An inspiration occurred to me that what if EFTA and EU joined together to form a bigger trade and military bloc in order to achieve a one United Europe. Currently with 2 trading blocs running side by side doesn't project a one United Europe. By joining EFTA into EU together will create an even bigger trading bloc and add muscles to their economic, industrial and military might. And if EU were to join with NATO, its economic, military, industrial might will be unsurpassed in the world. No one can fight against the Beast, Let's call this merger the EFTAEUNATO.

The EFTAEUNATO will then comprises of 36 members states and the interesting thing is that the magical number 10(horns),10(crowns), 7(heads) of the Beast that rise out of the sea is now even more obvious; 10 militarily powerful nations of EFTAEUNATO, 10 Monarchies, 7 heads of EFTAEUNATO.
Legend: Bold = Founder members, Bold Green = Monarchy member states, Bold Red = powerful military member states

1 Austria
2. Belgium (Monarchy) (Powerful military)
3. Bulgaria
4. Cyprus
5. Czech
6. Denmark (Monarchy)
7. Estonia
8. Finland
9. France (Powerful military)
10 Germany (Powerful military)
11. Greece (Powerful military)
12. Hungary
13. Ireland
14. Italy (Powerful military)
15. Latvia
16. Lithuania
17. Luxembourg (Monarchy)
18. Malta
19. Netherland (Monarchy)
20. Poland
21. Portugal (Powerful military)
22. Romania
23. Slovakia
24. Slovenia
25. Spain (Monarchy) (Powerful military)
26. Sweden (Monarchy)
27. UK (Monarchy) (Powerful military)
28. Albania
29. Canada (Monarchy) (Powerful military)
30. Croatia
31. Iceland
32. Norway (Monarchy)
33. Turkey
34. USA (Powerful military)
35 Switzerland
36 Liechenstein (Monarchy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...de_Association

Many Blessings.

Interesting
Makes me wonder if the Dragon is also a system because of it's descriptive image, having 7 heads and 10 horns.

Also many nations have dragons on their royalty emblems as well as unicorns and lions.
Example:
http://en.allexperts.com/e/r/ro/roya...ed_kingdom.htm

Also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbols...he_Isle_of_Man