Daniel's 70 Weeks were fulfilled in 70 AD!

[sylvius]

No.
The text says that Daniel read from Jeremiah, and realised that the 70 years was just about up. (Dan 9---) Daniel then made his supplications to the Lord, anticipating an end to the captivity and a new thing.

Daniel did begin his supplcations right after the destruction of the temple, and then already "the word emerged" (Jeremiah 30:18; 31:38v.)

Is that even possible sylvius?
What did onias 3 do that atoned for sin, and dealt with iniquity..... and bought everlasting righteous, and annointed the holy place etc?

But that's not what the text says:

Seventy weeks [of years] have been decreed upon your people and upon the city of your Sanctuary to terminate the transgression and to end sin, and to expiate iniquity, and to bring eternal righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.

Rashi:

Seventy weeks [of years] have been decreed: on Jerusalem from the day of the first destruction in the days of Zedekiah until it will be [destroyed] the second time.

to terminate the transgression and to end sin: so that Israel should receive their complete retribution in the exile of Titus and his subjugation, in order that their transgressions should terminate, their sins should end, and their iniquities should be expiated, in order to bring upon them eternal righteousness and to anoint upon them (sic) the Holy of Holies: the Ark, the altars, and the holy vessels, which they will bring to them through the king Messiah. The number of seven weeks is four hundred and ninety years. The Babylonian exile was seventy [years] and the Second Temple stood four hundred and twenty [years ]

It is just that Rashi reckons with biblical time, the destruction of the first temple taking place in the year 3338 = 422 BC (instead of 586 BC)

[weeder]

who or what is rashi?

[sylvius]

who or what is rashi?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashi

Shlomo Yitzhaki (Hebrew: רבי שלמה יצחקי‎), or in Latin Salomon Isaacides, and today generally known by the acronym Rashi (Hebrew: רש"י‎, RAbbi SHlomo Itzhaki; February 22, 1040 – July 13, 1105), was a medieval French rabbi and long highly esteemed as a major contribution Ashkenaz Jewry gave to Torah study. He is famed as the author of a comprehensive commentary on the Talmud, as well as a comprehensive commentary on the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible). He is considered the "father" of all commentaries that followed on the Talmud (i.e., the Baalei Tosafot) and the Tanakh (i.e., Ramban, Ibn Ezra, Ohr HaChaim, et al.).[1][2]

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_...with-Rashi.htm

[David M]

Hello weeder. I'm glad we've got something in common.

The final week (70t week) began at the Baptism of Jesus in 28AD, and ended 3.5 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. This is when they stoned Stephen. Some would rather point the end of the 70th week when Paul shook the dust off of his feet, and took the message to the Gentiles. I of course believe the end of the 70th week happened when Stephen was stoned. 40 years after this, comes the destruction of the temple.

Jesus was crucified in the middle of the final week; this was the "Confirmation" of the covenant. The confirmation of the covenant continued with the Apostles, and the gifts from the Holy Spirit being shown to all throughout Israel. Jesus told the Apostles, "You shall not have gone through all the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes". This of course happened near 70AD, when the Son of Man came in judgment upon the House of God; those who were "sealed" from the 12 Tribes of Israel (Revelation) were spared/delivered/saved from this destruction; those who were not sealed were left to be "gathered where the eagles are".

Joe

Hello Joe
I have come across some information that explains the 70 weeks of Daniel's prophecy in a way that you will not agree with but goes to explain what the "Abomination that makes desolate" could be and explains other sayings in prophecy that I have not seen explained on this forum.
Richard goes on about showing a fulfilled prophecy that we can prove. Alas a photograph could not be taken of Jesus riding into Jerusalem on a donkey and fulfilling Zechariah 9:9. This was an important fulfillment of prophecy; it was so important that Jesus says;(Luke 19:40) I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

I have added to the chart Richard posted a the beginning of this thread. The fulfillment of this prophecy has been worked out (from the Bible) to the very day in keeping with the times of when the decree was made to the day of Jesus riding into Jerusalem. Such is the timing of God's prophecies in fulfilling the first part of the 70-week prophecy. I will leave answering the second part to another time, but it does not follow the Preterists' thinking.



All the best

David

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

David:

See Phillip Mauro; Wonders of Bible Chronology. It is available online. I dont' know if they take into account for the difference between the septuigent and the masoretic datings in the ealier periods, but he and Martin Antsey account for an 80 yr difference between Ushers, Ptolemy, Josephus Chronology and theirs. Their dates culminate with the 69th week ending @ 27AD.

In Isaiah 44:24-28, Cyrus is prophesied to be raised up for this very purpose. This is 100 plus yrs before his birth.

26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:

27 That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers:

28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

On an interesting sidenote, Cyrus' name means annointed. When Jesus claims to be teh annointed of Isaiah 61, he proclaims liberty to the captives; the same ministry as the shepherd Cyrus. But in Jesus, the liberty is from the mosaic covenant ordinances as well as from the curse of the law of sin/death. This somewhat supports babylon as a figure of judaism and ensalvement to the law.

In his prayer in chapter 9, Daniel seems to have Deut 30:1-4 in mind which requires a recollection of the curse of the law of Moses and a confession from the people in order to return to the land. The angel then seems to tell Daniel that at the beginning of his supplication/prayer the command came forth. Was it the command to send the Angel to him, or was it the command to begin the process for Cyrus' decree; or was it the command of Cyrus' decree itself that the angel is referring to?

[David M]

Thanks for the reply EndtimesDeut32/70AD.

David:

See Phillip Mauro; Wonders of Bible Chronology. It is available online. I dont' know if they take into account for the difference between the septuigent and the masoretic datings in the ealier periods, but he and Martin Antsey account for an 80 yr difference between Ushers, Ptolemy, Josephus Chronology and theirs. Their dates culminate with the 69th week ending @ 27AD.

I have quickly looked through that webpage and have copied the following:

The words “unto the Messiah” tell us with all requisite clearness and certainty to just what point in the life-time of Jesus Christ the measure of 69 sevens (483 years) reaches. The word Messiah (equivalent to the Greek Christos) means “the Anointed.” We ask, therefore, where, in the earth-life of our Lord, was He anointed and presented to Israel? The answer is clearly given in the Gospels and Acts. It was at His baptism in Jordan; for then it was that the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily shape as a dove; and then it was that John the Baptist bore witness to Him as the Son of God, and the Lamb of God. As the apostle Peter declared: “ God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power” (Acts 10:38); and from that time He gave Himself to His public Messianic ministry as a “minister of the circumcision.”

First of all regarding the dates. We know for sure that the prophecy dates from the command to restore the walls (as well as the temple) to when Jesus rides into Jerusalem and is proclaimed the Messiah. It is after the 69th week that Messiah is cut off. I am working on a document I have entitled; 'When is the 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy?' I shall post it as soon as I have corrected ny typos and any inaccuracies that have crept in.

Given that the 483 years (173,880 days) is correct, I am taking this information which I showed in the chart previously as correct. I suppose I would have to work it out myself or get an agreed consensus as to the exact date. I know that the birth of Jesus is dated as 4BC, hence it would be AD26 when Jesus was aged 30. Given that Jesus ministered for 3.5 years, that would take us up to AD29/AD30. For now whatever the precise date and day that Jesus was proclaimed by the people to be Messiah, I am taking that to be the fulfillment of Daniel 9:25 and Zechariah 9:9. If you place Daniel's prophecy as occurring earlier at the start of his ministry and at his baptism when he was given the power of God (the Holy Spirit), this still does not detract from the fact that Daniel says; "after the 69th week". In other words, the 69th week ended at a very specific date.

You will have to wait to see what I have to say regarding the 70th week. I expect Richard will throw a fit and accuse me of twisting scripture, but I hope to show that I am not wresting scripture as others do "to their own destruction". I am genuinely seeking truth and to understand these prophecies correctly. I will read and listen to what others say from whatever persuasion they are, for there might be grains of truth I have not picked up on. One thing is for certain, we shall not know everything there is to know about prophecy until it is all completed. The more prophecies that have been completed, the more we understand about the prophecies not completed. We have the benefit of hindsight as we look back in history to see when prophecies were fulfilled. The prophecies not yet fulfilled are the subject of speculation and research and study of the scriptures to derive the best understanding we can, knowing that our understanding is always imperfect.

I am not convinced that "the abomination " spoken of by Daniel was that of Antiochus IV as some believe or that it was something that happened around AD70. Jesus was saying it was future from the time he was speaking and I consider is something that happens after AD70 and is something that will herald the return of Jesus to the earth.

Back to that passage I quoted from the webpage. Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit as confirmed in Acts 10. Though Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit, he was not anointed as king in the physical sense as was the practice of anointing Kings of Israel. The problem with taking his anointing with the Holy Spirit is that all prophecy of Daniel 9:24 is not completed by the time he is anointed. Even if we take his anointing with the Holy Spirit as his anointing as king, Jesus did not take up his position as king over Israel in the literal sense that Israel expected and Jesus did not perform of the role of Messiah in the way Israel was expecting him to. Jesus has to return and rule from the throne of David in Jerusalem. Only by his second return will he literally come to save and deliver Israel form a future bondage. I know this is controversial to those who do not agree with the literal return of Jesus, but since I accept that God's plan is centered on this earth, this is where I believe all the action is to take place in a literal sense.

All the best

David

[Richard Amiel McGough]

Hello Joe
I have come across some information that explains the 70 weeks of Daniel's prophecy in a way that you will not agree with but goes to explain what the "Abomination that makes desolate" could be and explains other sayings in prophecy that I have not seen explained on this forum.
Richard goes on about showing a fulfilled prophecy that we can prove. Alas a photograph could not be taken of Jesus riding into Jerusalem on a donkey and fulfilling Zechariah 9:9. This was an important fulfillment of prophecy; it was so important that Jesus says;(Luke 19:40) I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

I have added to the chart Richard posted a the beginning of this thread. The fulfillment of this prophecy has been worked out (from the Bible) to the very day in keeping with the times of when the decree was made to the day of Jesus riding into Jerusalem. Such is the timing of God's prophecies in fulfilling the first part of the 70-week prophecy. I will leave answering the second part to another time, but it does not follow the Preterists' thinking.



All the best

David

Good afternoon David,

It looks like you are following the chronology developed by Anderson in his The Coming Prince. My copy of that book is filled with marginal notes where I recorded his errors. In my estimation, he is an entirely unreliable source. Will your upcoming article deal with the problems with his chronology? For example, we don't have any evidence that tells us the specific year of Christ's crucifixion, and there are many disputations about the date when the command to rebuild was issued. And his use of a 360 year calendar is highly questionable. Here is a page that examines many of the problems you will have to answer if you want your argument to work.

http://www.pickle-publishing.com/pap...t-anderson.htm

[EndtimesDeut32/70AD]

Thanks for the reply EndtimesDeut32/70AD.



I have quickly looked through that webpage and have copied the following:

First of all regarding the dates. We know for sure that the prophecy dates from the command to restore the walls (as well as the temple) to when Jesus rides into Jerusalem and is proclaimed the Messiah. It is after the 69th week that Messiah is cut off. I am working on a document I have entitled; 'When is the 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy?' I shall post it as soon as I have corrected ny typos and any inaccuracies that have crept in.

Given that the 483 years (173,880 days) is correct, I am taking this information which I showed in the chart previously as correct. I suppose I would have to work it out myself or get an agreed consensus as to the exact date. I know that the birth of Jesus is dated as 4BC, hence it would be AD26 when Jesus was aged 30. Given that Jesus ministered for 3.5 years, that would take us up to AD29/AD30. For now whatever the precise date and day that Jesus was proclaimed by the people to be Messiah, I am taking that to be the fulfillment of Daniel 9:25 and Zechariah 9:9. If you place Daniel's prophecy as occurring earlier at the start of his ministry and at his baptism when he was given the power of God (the Holy Spirit), this still does not detract from the fact that Daniel says; "after the 69th week". In other words, the 69th week ended at a very specific date.

You will have to wait to see what I have to say regarding the 70th week. I expect Richard will throw a fit and accuse me of twisting scripture, but I hope to show that I am not wresting scripture as others do "to their own destruction". I am genuinely seeking truth and to understand these prophecies correctly. I will read and listen to what others say from whatever persuasion they are, for there might be grains of truth I have not picked up on. One thing is for certain, we shall not know everything there is to know about prophecy until it is all completed. The more prophecies that have been completed, the more we understand about the prophecies not completed. We have the benefit of hindsight as we look back in history to see when prophecies were fulfilled. The prophecies not yet fulfilled are the subject of speculation and research and study of the scriptures to derive the best understanding we can, knowing that our understanding is always imperfect.

I am not convinced that "the abomination " spoken of by Daniel was that of Antiochus IV as some believe or that it was something that happened around AD70. Jesus was saying it was future from the time he was speaking and I consider is something that happens after AD70 and is something that will herald the return of Jesus to the earth.

Back to that passage I quoted from the webpage. Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit as confirmed in Acts 10. Though Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit, he was not anointed as king in the physical sense as was the practice of anointing Kings of Israel. The problem with taking his anointing with the Holy Spirit is that all prophecy of Daniel 9:24 is not completed by the time he is anointed. Even if we take his anointing with the Holy Spirit as his anointing as king, Jesus did not take up his position as king over Israel in the literal sense that Israel expected and Jesus did not perform of the role of Messiah in the way Israel was expecting him to. Jesus has to return and rule from the throne of David in Jerusalem. Only by his second return will he literally come to save and deliver Israel form a future bondage. I know this is controversial to those who do not agree with the literal return of Jesus, but since I accept that God's plan is centered on this earth, this is where I believe all the action is to take place in a literal sense.

All the best

David

I would suggest reading the preceeding chapter/s and perhaps the booklet specifically concerning daniels 70 weeks from that same author.

I disagree with your perspectives about his needing to be crowned "King" by the people. And I disagree that the only 'declaration' or command to restore the city and temple was through Artexerxes.

Furthermore, we take into consideration the account of the woman at the well;

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

This was shortly after his baptism.

Jesus affirmed himself as MESSIAH to the woman at the well 3 1/2 yrs before being 'cut off' at the cross. The only reference to "messiah' is the prophecy in Dan 9. The 69th week thus ended before this admission to the woman at the well. His baptism was shortly before his talking with the woman. He also shortly after his baptism declared the freeing of the captives by referring to Isiah 61.[similar to Cyrus]

In his teaching in the Beatitudes, and his healings, and his teachings to his dicsiple he affirmed the very words of God, the new prophet of Deut 18, [Acts 2 and 7]; and the king of the earth. [temple tax incident] They marveled that he taught with authority. Wasn't this as to what was prophesied in Deut 18. Unto him they were to listen.


By ending the 69th at the cross, we like the pharisees wold reject his teachings as part of the ordinances and authority of life and also of them being different from those of the mosaic covenant.

[David M]

Good afternoon David,

It looks like you are following the chronology developed by Anderson in his The Coming Prince. My copy of that book is filled with marginal notes where I recorded his errors. In my estimation, he is an entirely unreliable source. Will your upcoming article deal with the problems with his chronology? For example, we don't have any evidence that tells us the specific year of Christ's crucifixion, and there are many disputations about the date when the command to rebuild was issued. And his use of a 360 year calendar is highly questionable. Here is a page that examines many of the problems you will have to answer if you want your argument to work.

http://www.pickle-publishing.com/pap...t-anderson.htm

Thank you for this link Richard. I have had a quick read through and I am not convinced by all of Pickle's conclusions, though he makes some good points and I will need time to study them closely. I do not claim to be any expert in calculating dates and those who do make much such calculations, I rely on, but I do not take it for granted that they are correct. I am waiting to see an agreement between several independent studies from different quarters that would be lead to a definite conclusion. The fact that there is so much disagreement should not make any of us complacent about knowing the truth of God's word.

The date AD32 that is shown in the box I added to the chart, I have to say I questioned to myself at the time, because in another calculation for the crucifixion of Christ and for him to be in the grave a full 72 hours, it was calculated that the year had to be AD31. The birth of Jesus is put at 4BC and if he started his ministry at the age of 30 that would have made the start of his ministry in AD26/27. Even Luke does not state a definite age for Jesus at the start of his ministry so we might have a year or two latitude expect for some scriptural reason to take into account. (Luke 3:23) And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age,


It happens that the ministry of Jesus lasted 3.5 years and would seem to suggest that he was cut off in the midst of a week. Now what happens when Messiah is cut off; does time halt in which the remaining half-week (1260 days) remain to be fulfilled at a future time (and could that be in the period of the 1260 days mentioned in the Book of Revelation?}. If time is not halted, what of relevance happened in the remaining 3.5 years up to AD34?

Pickle does not show as far as I can see from this article how he has derived when the start or end of the 69th week occurred. He makes this conclusion for which I find no evidence in the article; "Since the fall of 34 AD marks the end of a sabbatical year, the spring of 31 AD would mark the precise middle of the 70th week. We may then look at this date as a possibility for the date of the crucifixion." Of course he is stating this as a possibility and therefore is not definite or a certainty. As such we are kept on our toes looking for the precise timings and fitting in of events.

What was the covenant that was confirmed with many for one week(Daniel 9:27 )? and why only one week? The placing of the 70th week is not the only reason for believing in prophecy that is still future beyond AD70 and whilst in my article that I have now posted, I do not go into the time calculations that I am quoting. I have given a preface and and addendum to the article to explain why I believe there is prophecy to be fulfilled and why I think all of God's plan and purpose is centered nowhere else but upon this earth.

If you want to make any further points on the subject of the 70th week, I will catch you in the post; http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...iel-s-prophecy

If anyone wants to comment points raised in the article, that can be the basis for continuing to explore all possibilities of Daniel's prophecy in order to come to the the one truth that we are meant to understand and which we have to diligently search out as best we can.

All the best.

David

[David M]

I would suggest reading the preceeding chapter/s and perhaps the booklet specifically concerning daniels 70 weeks from that same author.

Thanks for the suggestion

I disagree with your perspectives about his needing to be crowned "King" by the people. And I disagree that the only 'declaration' or command to restore the city and temple was through Artexerxes.

OK so you disagree; we come to our own conclusions once we have taken all things into account. I cited the only decree that mentioned the rebuilding of the wall of Jerusalem as mentioned by Daniel(9:25).

Furthermore, we take into consideration the account of the woman at the well;

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

This was shortly after his baptism.

Jesus affirmed himself as MESSIAH to the woman at the well 3 1/2 yrs before being 'cut off' at the cross. The only reference to "messiah' is the prophecy in Dan 9. The 69th week thus ended before this admission to the woman at the well. His baptism was shortly before his talking with the woman. He also shortly after his baptism declared the freeing of the captives by referring to Isiah 61.[similar to Cyrus]

I agree we can take this into consideration. I was merely pointing out the public (not private) declaration that fulfilled Zechariah 9:9}. In one sense, Jesus has freed us from our sins and freed us from the eternal death that would otherwise hold us captive, but there is the literal coming of Messiah to save Israel that is future.

In his teaching in the Beatitudes, and his healings, and his teachings to his dicsiple he affirmed the very words of God, the new prophet of Deut 18, [Acts 2 and 7]; and the king of the earth. [temple tax incident] They marveled that he taught with authority. Wasn't this as to what was prophesied in Deut 18. Unto him they were to listen.

This was the coming of the prophet as spoken by Moses and hence the fulfillment of that prophecy. The hearing is what we do now by reading his words that have be written down. Jesus word's were heard during his ministry and some heard and believed and many did not. If they had all believed Jesus, they would not have put him to death.

By ending the 69th at the cross, we like the pharisees wold reject his teachings as part of the ordinances and authority of life and also of them being different from those of the mosaic covenant.

I do not see that I am rejecting the teaching of Jesus for possibly thinking that the 69th week ended at the cross or when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the donkey as King of the Jews. I think this is the difference I am making. Daniel says after the 69th week Messiah is cut off and when Jesus enters Jerusalem he is proclaimed King. The problem we have in reading into these verses is that we know Jesus is both king and Messiah, but there is no verse in which those two words appear together. We know now and in what sense Jesus is or will be king and Messiah, but the people had there expectation which was not fulfilled in the way they expected or as I believe, has yet to be fulfilled in the way they did expect, besides the way I know Jesus is already fulfilling those roles in the spiritual sense at this time. The day will come when the spiritual things we think about will become the physical reality.

We have an interesting part to Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks in that; if the 69th week ends when Jesus rides into Jerusalem, we revert from one week = one year to a time when one week = 7 days. Is this 7-day week the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy? I can see how we might want to begin the ministry of Jesus at the end of the 69th week so that Jesus is cut off in the midst of the week i.e mid-way in the 70th week of 7 years (3.5 years), but this raises the question that I posed to Richard when replying in the post before this one. I suppose we have to stick strictly to the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy as being a week = 7 years.

All I will say about the death of Jesus is that he began the new covenant in his blood and done away with the old covenant made to Israel. Jesus had fulfilled all the law. Jesus had summed up all the law and the prophets in the two great commandments and those two commandments are still in force today.

All the best.

David