Bibles, Wheels, and Brains Forum - Christianity http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/ en Wed, 22 May 2013 15:56:45 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/images/misc/rss.png Bibles, Wheels, and Brains Forum - Christianity http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/ Three Days and Three Nights http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3973-Three-Days-and-Three-Nights&goto=newpost Mon, 20 May 2013 18:29:25 GMT Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion proponents, they frequently argue... Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion proponents, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights? ]]> Christianity rstrats http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3973-Three-Days-and-Three-Nights Baptism by water http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3863-Baptism-by-water&goto=newpost Sat, 18 May 2013 08:42:55 GMT Hello Richard
I have extracted this topic from the thread; 'Can God's Angels be trusted' so as not to dilute that thread with an unrelated topic and was introduced by my response to L67's comment. I can now reply to your comment in this new topic.

[QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
Hey there David,
When you say "baptism" are you talking about water baptism or baptism by the Holy Spirit? Some Bible believers adamantly assert it is water baptism whereas most adamantly assert it is spirit baptism. One side is wrong. The other right. How is anyone supposed to know? And what if a believer innocently gets it wrong such as someone misunderstanding because of this ambiguity? Oh my! Do they really lose salvation for failing to properly understand an ambiguous word?

No matter which is true, does this mean that there will be those who were "damned" because of an ambiguous word?

I don't understand how anyone could have any confidence of salvation if every word of the Bible has two meanings. Does God really speak with a forked tongue?
Yes, I am talking about water baptism. It was the only type of Baptism that Jesus underwent. We know that Jesus did not baptize anyone as John did, but the instruction that was given to the disciples to baptize people was referring to John's baptism with water. It was a necessary requirement as told by Jesus; (Matt 3:15) Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.
 Hence the requirement for any believer to follow the example of Jesus and be as righteous as possible and that cannot be accomplished if baptism is ignored and not felt necessary. If our lord has said it is a requirement to fulfilling all righteousness, then his instruction should not be ignored.

Here is an example of the Apostle Paul confirming that he taught the same message of the Gospels (this is what we are discussing in another thread). (Romans 6:3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Paul is talking about the symbolism of the process of being baptized which is the complete immersion in water. (Child christening, which is not proper baptism, is not scriptural and is the subject for another thread).

We know Peter baptized the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:35) Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Jesus said (Mark 16:16); He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;


The expression "baptize with the Holy Spirit" only occurs once in each of the four Gospels all repeating the words of John prior to Jesus coming to him.
(Matt 3:11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

(Mark 1:8) I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

(Luke 3:16) John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

(John 1:33) And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Spirit 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.


Nowhere else is this expression found. You want confirming verses so where else is the granting of the Holy Spirit spoken of as baptism? It will be helpful if you can bring any verses to our attention so we can discuss them. How then should we understand or not understand what John is saying? First note that when the Holy Spirit which was given to Jesus, a visible sign was given. John witnessed the sign of a dove resting on Jesus. This event is not described as a baptism with the Holy Spirit and if anyone was baptized with the Holy Spirit it was Jesus and he was the first, but the text does not describe the giving of Jesus the Holy Spirit to Jesus as a form of baptism. What does having the Holy Spirit mean and why did some people only have it in small measure and could not use it as Jesus used it? The subject of the Holy Spirit is a study in its own right and not to be studied here.

God tells John that Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit. In what context does Jesus baptize with the Holy Spirit? Is giving the Holy Spirit to someone counted as baptism? Is 'The Comforter' the same as the Holy Spirit in total or a facet of it? Jesus said this which confirms in part that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit; (John 14:16) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Here we see that the Holy Spirit is given (sent) by God in the name of Jesus. Here it is not conclusive that Jesus gave the disciples the Holy Spirit and baptized them in it.

The Holy Spirit gifts were passed from the Disciples to later disciples by the laying on of hands. This Holy Spirit gift seems to have been necessary in the early years after Jesus ascended to Heaven and the passing on of the Holy Spirit is something that dies out and was no longer evident. We do not see the Holy Spirit being passed on as it was then. Again, was this passing on of the Holy Spirit the same as being baptized by it? If the Holy Spirit ceased to be passed on and I do not have the Holy Spirit as the Disciples had it, how can I be saved if I am to be baptized with the Holy Spirit? It does not make sense and that is why baptism as taught by Jesus in following the practice of John is the complete immersion in water.

If we regard baptism as explained by Paul as a symbolic process of cleansing whereby our sins are forgiven and with the association with Jesus through baptism Jesus is able to present us as sinless (faultless) before his Heavenly Father, could a form of cleansing of sickness and disease and illness be a form of baptism by the Holy Spirit? It was the performing of miracles of healing that the power granted to Jesus was responsible for making a person well or whole. A baptism performed by the Holy Spirit results in the body being cleansed from illness. This cleansing was not permanent and was a one-off event and did not prevent the person becoming ill with something else later on. This is what Peter confirms about the Holy Spirit which was given to Jesus (Acts 10:38);How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. Incidentally, I noticed that I have not used this verse in support of my argument that Jesus is not God. Quite clearly God and Jesus are separate. This is blindingly simple and yet confusion is introduced by those taking isolated verses out of context and misleading others who blindly accept what they are taught. If you want to respond to this point, please do so in the thread; 'Jesus is not God'.

I have presented some things to be thought about and I have to say that I had not expressed these ideas until now as I pondered on the expression of John. It would be helpful Richard if you would explain what "baptism with the Holy Spirit" means and give examples of it and how is it that we are saved by the baptism of the Holy Spirit especially as I do not have the Holy Spirit in the form it was given to the Disciples. How could I prove to anyone I have been baptized with the Holy Spirit when I do not consider I have it. Having the spirit of truth or the spirit of this or that is not in my reckoning to have the Holy Spirit powers that was given to the Disciples. I can however prove I was baptised because I have witnesses on earth as well as in Heaven to the fact that I was baptised with water by the complete immersion in water and also I made a confession of my belief at the time.

I trust I have answered your question in full. There is no need to comment on the **** statement; "Does God really speak with a forked tongue?". If you apply yourself to reasoning from the Bible to support what the Bible says, no such conclusion can be drawn. Sadly, if one does not apply oneself to spiritual wisdom and discerns the true spiritual message, then those who do not remain amongst those who have eyes and do not see and have ears and do not hear. (Proverbs 2:2) So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; 3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; 4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; 5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. This is what must be done, for IF this is not done, then a person will never understand.

All the best

David ]]> Christianity David M http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3863-Baptism-by-water Test Everything in the Bible http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3767-Test-Everything-in-the-Bible&goto=newpost Mon, 13 May 2013 08:26:49 GMT It should be obvious that if we hold the Bible to be true and we have faith in the Bible, that we must be willing to test everything and have an... It should be obvious that if we hold the Bible to be true and we have faith in the Bible, that we must be willing to test everything and have an answer for the hope that is within us. If we do not have all the answers, we can be working towards an answer.

Having stumbled upon a website that claimed Paul was a "false prophet" and is far from the truth, I have since come across a set of videos on Youtube made by 119 ministries entitled 'The Pauline Paradox'. I have just finished the first video, which does not start to get into the teaching of, but outlines why we should test everything. It asks the question; "Is the majority ever wrong?'.

This is for anyone who has the time and the desire to find out the truth and re-examine their beliefs. I have been challenged to do so resulting from contributing on this forum. I am not being complacent about what I believe.


This first video sets out why we should test everything and is a good intro since it is not preaching any doctrine other than accepting the Bible is the word of God and is truth and does not change.


Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDW654-s4wo


David ]]> Christianity David M http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3767-Test-Everything-in-the-Bible A beautiful prayer to God http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3761-A-beautiful-prayer-to-God&goto=newpost Fri, 10 May 2013 07:36:28 GMT *Father*, I know themost important reality of my life is that you love me and that you look at methis moment with such tenderness and love as no one... Father, I know themost important reality of my life is that you love me and that you look at methis moment with such tenderness and love as no one ever could;
Iam your only child.

Youdesire to forgive me and to heal me where I want healing so that this day willbe a brand-new beginning with “a futurefull of hope.”

WhateverI have to face today, one thing I know, is that you will be there with me as mybest friend, helping, consoling, strengthening, healing and guiding me.

Thereis absolutely nothing I have to be afraid of. All this I know because your Son has told us so. Amen

With all my tears I ask of you with lovingkindness, I beg of you on my hands and on my knees, please pray for God mercy on all sinners. Thank you. ]]> Christianity paul123 http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3761-A-beautiful-prayer-to-God Why I Am Not a Christian ~ Bertrand Russell http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3737-Why-I-Am-Not-a-Christian-Bertrand-Russell&goto=newpost Mon, 29 Apr 2013 00:06:34 GMT This is from a speech first given by Bertrand Russell in 1927. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F6J8o7AAe8 What Is a Christian? 0:16... This is from a speech first given by Bertrand Russell in 1927.



What Is a Christian? 0:16
The Existence of God 4:16
The First-cause Argument 5:27
The Natural-law Argument 7:42
The Argument from Design 12:08
The Moral Arguments for Deity 15:18
The Argument for the Remedying of Injustice 18:06
The Character of Christ 20:28
Defects in Christ's Teaching 23:22
The Moral Problem 25:43
The Emotional Factor 30:45
How the Churches Have Retarded Progress 33:48
Fear, the Foundation of Religion 35:41
What We Must Do 37:10 ]]> Christianity Rose http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/showthread.php?3737-Why-I-Am-Not-a-Christian-Bertrand-Russell