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basilfo
12-10-2008, 04:05 PM
I came across this article entitled:

Who Really Owns the 'Holy Land'?
By. Dr. Robert L. Reymond

It's the second article down the column at this link:


http://againstdispensationalism.blogspot.com/

Very thorough IMO discussion on the errors of the Dispensational interpretation which gives modern day Israel covenantal significance.

Good read. I'd like to hear your comments.

Peace to you,
Dave

gregoryfl
12-10-2008, 04:14 PM
Wow! That's a lot of reading! But I will certainly get right on it. :yo:

Thanks bro,

Ron

Charisma
11-17-2011, 04:09 AM
I
haven't read the article (I may not read the article but will follow the discussion with interest), but the Bible states very clearly that 'the land' is the Lord's and it is never to be sold. He also says 'all the earth is mine'. Doesn't this bring more sharply into focus the concept of servanthood and stewardship, which Jesus brings up in a number of His parables? They (His narratives) never indicate more than one Owner.

TheForgiven
11-17-2011, 12:23 PM
I for one believe that Christians are the owners of the Holy Land. Now when I say Holy Land, I don't mean geographical Israel; I'm referring to the spiritual land that Christians live in all nations. All nations possessing the kingdom of God (Church) are in essence, walking in the Holy Land.

I'm reminded of Peter's statement, "For we look for a new heavens, and a new earth". He never said, "a new geographical Israel", but a world where the righteous have the freedom to live and abide with the heathen, and without fear of persecution.

What do you think my friends?

Joe

Charisma
11-18-2011, 04:30 AM
Hey, Joe!


but a world where the righteous have the freedom to live and abide with the heathen, and without fear of persecution.

Where did you get the idea there would be 'heathen' in the land (wherein dwells [only] righteousness), or 'persecution'?

heb13-13
11-18-2011, 08:10 AM
Hey, Joe!



Where did you get the idea there would be 'heathen' in the land (wherein dwells [only] righteousness), or 'persecution'?

Good point, Charisma.

Deu 1:35
Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,


And even the Spiritual "Holy Land" is owned by the Lord because He is the "good land" that we have been brought into.

The other typology of land is us (our body, mind, will, emotions) and since "we are bought with a price", we belong to Him.

Rick

TheForgiven
11-18-2011, 08:37 AM
A NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH WHERE MEN LIVE LONGER, AND WOLF AND THE LAMB SHALL FEED TOGETHER

ISAIAH 65:

17 ' For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 ' No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
24 ' It shall come to pass
That before they call, I will answer;
And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
The lion shall eat straw like the ox,
And dust shall be the serpent’s food.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,'
Says the LORD.


The lamb residing with the wolf in this new earth denotes that sinners and the righteous abide on this new earth. Those who are unsaved have the choice to enter into the Jerusalem from above, and partake of the free gift of the waters of life (Revelation). But the righteous abide in the kingdom of God forever; both on this earth, and in heaven after they have passed on.

Joe

Charisma
11-18-2011, 03:34 PM
Hi Joe,

Thanks for your reply. :)

I would not interpret 'They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain', as meaning that they still have their original nature (- that they are 'unsaved').

I tie this in with the redemption of the body and the 'whole creation' (new heavens and new earth) in Romans 8:22.

TheForgiven
11-18-2011, 04:21 PM
Hi Joe,

Thanks for your reply. :)

I would not interpret 'They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain', as meaning that they still have their original nature (- that they are 'unsaved').

I tie this in with the redemption of the body and the 'whole creation' (new heavens and new earth) in Romans 8:22.

Greetings Charisma. Am I correct in assuming that you believe in the literal 1000 year reign of Christ, where the Saints are resurrected (redemption of our bodies), to live with the mortals (those who still give birth and die)? There are Futurist's who believe this teaching. Is this your belief?

Now the truth of the matter is, Isaiah 65 and 66 is not talking about a reign of Christ, with a resurrected race abiding with mortal human beings. That is a belief that has not foundation in scripture, nor was it taught by the early church.

During the days of the Apostles, the knowledge of God and of Christ was not yet widely known; that's what they were called to do; to preach to the Gentiles into the sea of nations. The Holy Mountain that has been established is called the Church, or the Israel of God. Unlike ancient secular Israel, we do not "war" to protect this kingdom, nor do we have to build gates around the Church to protect against outsiders, such as the wolf. The gates of Jerusalem are always open, but only those who are in Christ Jesus are allowed to enter. Those who wish to partake freely of the waters of life, are thus given entrance into the city; this city is a spiritual Jerusalem which comes from above, and is not based on human construction or building. This is why Jesus said to the Apostles, when they asked how the kingdom would come, "the kingdom will not come in such a way where one observes it, as if to say, 'There it is!' or "Look! Over there!' Nay, the kingdom of God [abides] within you". This means that this is a spiritual kingdom that would one day (from the first century) dominate the inhabited earth, thus creating a new earth where both sinner and saint live in peace; peace, as in, no war.

While it is true that wars continue, the context is about Christians not having to hide as they once did during the Roman Empire. And so, we who are of Israel, bring Israel wherever we travel, and invite outsiders into our city, and teach them of the Messiah.

Isaiah 65 and 66 was fulfilled in the first century AD.

Joe