Is there “something bigger” to the Bible Wheel?

I recently received this comment in response to my post Is God Trustworthy? The Root of Religious Delusion.

Hello Richard,

I would like to say that your Bible Wheel creation undertakings was a brilliant example of intellect and hard work at its core and for me personally, an example of something which could only have been created by someone who had the capacity to perform as a calling for a higher purpose.

I believe that you are connected to something which cannot be conceptually explained in words and that your mathematical prowess was utilized as a substitute to deliver the messages which religion cannot make sense. of.

I am grateful to who you are as a person and as a higher being. I do hope you understand who I am and implore you to consider your Bible Wheel creation as something bigger than just its interpretation to you.

Hey there Glenn,

Thanks for the good words. I appreciate your suggestion but it’s rather difficult to know which aspects of the Bible Wheel could be seen as a manifestation of “something bigger” and which are just meaningless coincidence. For example, at first glance it seems amazing that the 66 books of the Protestant Bible could fit on the traditional Hebrew circle of 22 Hebrew letters, but if that’s not a “mere coincidence” then what are we to make of the fact that we can do the same thing with the 72 books of the Roman Catholic Bible using the 24 Greek letters? And that case is even better than the Protestant Bible Wheel in that it “seals the word” from Alpha to Omega in direct correspondence to the Greek text of Revelation where Jesus Christ (The Word) declares that he is the “Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.” Some people try to rationalize this by saying that God designed both Bibles! But what then is the value of all this symbolism if it doesn’t even distinguish between the two competing canons? And what about the Muslims who see divine design in the Quran based on the Number 19? They base this on a mystical verse in the Quran that says “Over it are nineteen” and then goes on to say that those “19” are put there to convince unbelievers and “People of the Book” (Jews and Christians) of the truth of the Quran. Here are the verses (Quran 74:31):

Over it are Nineteen. And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,- in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, “What symbol doth Allah intend by this?” Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth: and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind.

Muslims have developed a mystical lore about the number 19 over a span of centuries, just like Christians with the number 666. It’s easy to see why Muslim numerologists would be impressed to find that the Quran consists of 114 = 6 x 19 surahs (chapters) and that the number 19 is a centered hexagonal number so the number 114 can be arranged in a perfectly symmetrical hexagonal pattern of six hexagons:

Muslim numerologists use this pattern to analyse the phrase “Bismillah ir-rahman ir-rahim” (In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful). This phrase occurs exactly 114 times in the Quran and is composed of 19 Arabic letters which can be laid out in a hexagonal form as in this screenshot from this video which “proves” the “miraculous divine design” of the Quran based on the number 19:

So, given that the Bible Wheel is based on the same kind of “pattern finding” that is used by all believers in all religions to justify their irrational beliefs, it seems very difficult, if not impossible, to find the “something bigger” in the Bible Wheel. I am, of course, open to any suggestions or insights you may have. I do not take this question lightly. Rose and I spent about three years after quitting Christianity exploring possible “explanations” for the Bible Wheel because we were still convinced that the evidence was valid. It wasn’t until I was finally able to review my claims objectively (without the bias of wanting them to be true) that I was able to see my errors. I explain the process in this series of posts:

Great chatting!

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390 Comments

  1. Posted April 22, 2016 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

    The “something bigger” can be found in my presentation “The Whirling Wheels”, available for viewing online at youtube here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLwuuRirqBM

    On the evening of May 13, 1999, an extraordinary event took place in Jerusalem. For the first time in 2,000 years, a Menorah built according to the original design given to Moses was unveiled in the city. The event can be seen on youtube also, here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYBxv5ssuNk

    By “co-incidence”, this is the very same day, within 24 hours, May 14, 1999, that Richard McGough discovered the “Canon Wheel”, the seven-fold structure of the Bible which he chose to represent by the Menorah, of all things. This date is not without significance: it was the 51st anniversary of the founding of the modern State of Israel, which chose as its heraldic device: the Menorah.

    This is just the beginning of the connections explored and discussed in The Whirling Wheels presentation linked above.

    This fact on its own cries out for a rational explanation. Were these dates arranged by human intervention? It is not impossible to consider. The Menorah in Jerusalem was presented by a Californian businessman, named Moshe Pereg. Does he have links to Mr McGough? Was this a co-ordinated plan supervised by some behind-the-scenes organisation perhaps? It seems unlikely. If we reject such a concerted arrangement, then we are left with only two possibilities. Either this extraordinary pattern of the revelation of the Menorah both in Jerusalem and in the Bible within the same 24 hour period is nothing more than a meaningless co-incidence, or, somehow, it was co-ordinated at a higher level, whatever that may mean.

    I encourage readers to watch my full presentation to see a host of correlations just as jaw-dropping as this one, in which the process of discovery of the Biblewheel appears to have been mirrored in certain external events over which, one assumes, Mr McGough could have had no control.

    In this manner, I submit, there is indeed “something bigger” which cries out for some kind of explanation or understanding.

    In order to arrive at such an understanding, if it is possible, it will be necessary to move beyond simple dichotomies. Thus far, the debate on this entire topic has been held back, in my view, by a tendency to polarise views too quickly into various either/or scenarios. Are you Christian, or non-Christian? Do you agree with evolution, or disagree? Did the world begin with a big Bang, or not? Is the Koran from God, or not? The universe is a more subtle place than such relatively simplistic scenarios can account for.

    The appearance of the Menorah in Jerusalem on the exact same day that Richard discovered the Menorah structure of the Bible, if it is a co-incidence, must be the most amazing example in history. It is easier for me to believe that it was co-ordinated by human intervention, than that it is a completely meaningless alignment of events which just happen to be related. But there is another possibility, that there are higher dimensions of pattern making in the universe than our tiny puny minds are capable of recognising or grasping at this stage in our development. Perhaps the answer to this conundrum is that we are being called to appreciate the subtlety of the world we live in at a new and higher level.

    Richard’s deconstruction of his BibleWheel work has dismantled some of the proofs which he originally brought to the table, such as the frequency of occurrence of words on the spokes, but by no means has he addressed each and every positive element which he laid out in his fascinating book. There remains a core of “co-incidences” which are extremely provocative. The fact that other patterns may be found in other versions of the Bible or the Koran does not lessen the impact of these. Perhaps the pattern making process is conscious, and ubiquitous. Perhaps God is more subtle than we imagined. Perhaps Christianity is embedded in a larger cosmic understanding which remains way ahead of us in human development to be capable of grasping. Again, it is time to move beyond the simple black or white polarity in this discussion.

    In any case, it is the “co-incidences” between the BibleWheel discoveries and external events, as I have documented in The Whirling Wheels, which opens up this entire topic to another level. There is indeed “something bigger” on the table now. It is time to go beyond the basics, time to move past our own tightly held so-called “beliefs”, time to embrace a far more subtle and pluralistic approach if we are to truly make sense of these extraordinary patterns which have been discovered.

    The BibleWheel remains an enigma which, despite Richard’s best efforts to unwind, still has the power to fascinate and still demands explanation. if we are open to it, it is a call to examine our own thinking, and to move beyond outdated paradigms in which competing beliefs or views battle for supremacy. The universe is a far more complex and interesting place than such debates will ever grasp.

  2. MichaelFree
    Posted April 23, 2016 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    God deities’ existence in the world is not a fact in the same way that the existence of evolution as an explanation of human life on Earth is not a fact. Both sides of the argument many times speak in terms as if their theory is a fact, and in the case of the scientist their evidence is the preponderance of the observable and measurable evidence, whereas the evidence of the believer is found in belief. None of this is facts that they’re operating in. A fact is something else.

    The existence of a book that has as holy the number 19 and the number 19 somehow corresponding to mathematical things only proves the existence of a book that has as holy the number 19 and the the number 19 corresponding to mathematical things. It does not prove the existence of a deity-being. Only observable and measurable evidence of the existence of a deity-being would prove the existence of a deity-being.

  3. Simon M
    Posted April 23, 2016 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    The “something bigger” can be found in my presentation “The Whirling Wheels”, available for viewing online at youtube here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLwuuRirqBM
    On the evening of May 13, 1999, an extraordinary event took place in Jerusalem. For the first time in 2,000 years, a Menorah built according to the original design given to Moses was unveiled in the city. The event can be seen on youtube also, here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYBxv5ssuNk
    By “co-incidence”, this is the very same day, within 24 hours, May 14, 1999, that Richard McGough discovered the “Canon Wheel”, the seven-fold structure of the Bible which he chose to represent by the Menorah, of all things. This date is not without significance: it was the 51st anniversary of the founding of the modern State of Israel, which chose as its heraldic device: the Menorah.

  4. Simon M
    Posted April 24, 2016 at 12:01 am | Permalink

    The “something bigger” can be found in my presentation “The Whirling Wheels”, available for viewing online at youtube.

  5. Simon M
    Posted April 24, 2016 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    On the evening of May 13, 1999, an extraordinary event took place in Jerusalem. For the first time in 2,000 years, a Menorah built according to the original design given to Moses was unveiled in the city. The event can be seen on youtube also. Search for The Holy Menorah.

    By “co-incidence”, this is the very same day, within 24 hours, May 14, 1999, that Richard McGough discovered the “Canon Wheel”, the seven-fold structure of the Bible which he chose to represent by the Menorah, of all things. This date is not without significance: it was the 51st anniversary of the founding of the modern State of Israel, which chose as its heraldic device: the Menorah.

    This is just the beginning of the connections explored and discussed in The Whirling Wheels presentation linked above.

  6. Simon M
    Posted April 24, 2016 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    This fact on its own cries out for a rational explanation. Were these dates arranged by human intervention? It is not impossible to consider. The Menorah in Jerusalem was presented by a Californian businessman, named Moshe Pereg. Does he have links to Mr McGough? Was this a co-ordinated plan supervised by some behind-the-scenes organisation perhaps? It seems unlikely. If we reject such a concerted arrangement, then we are left with only two possibilities. Either this extraordinary pattern of the revelation of the Menorah both in Jerusalem and in the Bible within the same 24 hour period is nothing more than a meaningless co-incidence, or, somehow, it was co-ordinated at a higher level, whatever that may mean.

    I encourage readers to watch my full presentation to see a host of correlations just as jaw-dropping as this one, in which the process of discovery of the Biblewheel appears to have been mirrored in certain external events over which, one assumes, Mr McGough could have had no control.

    In this manner, I submit, there is indeed “something bigger” which cries out for some kind of explanation or understanding.

  7. MichaelFree
    Posted April 24, 2016 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    Scientists are pretty sure that evolution is factual and I’m not opposed to the idea. It appears highly likely that evolution will turn out to be not only the most likely scenario that occurred but the scenario that actually occurred. I’d like to see what use the knowledge of our origins helps or hurts anyone in life. I mean who gives a shit. Really. My days will still be the same. I like science that makes things and that helps people in life in a tangible way.

  8. Simon M
    Posted April 24, 2016 at 12:06 am | Permalink

    In order to arrive at such an understanding, if it is possible, it will be necessary to move beyond simple dichotomies. Thus far, the debate on this entire topic has been held back, in my view, by a tendency to polarise views too quickly into various either/or scenarios. Are you Christian, or non-Christian? Do you agree with evolution, or disagree? Did the world begin with a big Bang, or not? Is the Koran from God, or not? The universe is a more subtle place than such relatively simplistic scenarios can account for.
    The appearance of the Menorah in Jerusalem on the exact same day that Richard discovered the Menorah structure of the Bible, if it is a co-incidence, must be the most amazing example in history. It is easier for me to believe that it was co-ordinated by human intervention, than that it is a completely meaningless alignment of events which just happen to be related. But there is another possibility, that there are higher dimensions of pattern making in the universe than our tiny puny minds are capable of recognising or grasping at this stage in our development. Perhaps the answer to this conundrum is that we are being called to appreciate the subtlety of the world we live in at a new and higher level.

  9. Simon M
    Posted April 24, 2016 at 12:06 am | Permalink

    Richard’s deconstruction of his BibleWheel work has dismantled some of the proofs which he originally brought to the table, such as the frequency of occurrence of words on the spokes, but by no means has he addressed each and every positive element which he laid out in his fascinating book. There remains a core of “co-incidences” which are extremely provocative. The fact that other patterns may be found in other versions of the Bible or the Koran does not lessen the impact of these. Perhaps the pattern making process is conscious, and ubiquitous. Perhaps God is more subtle than we imagined. Perhaps Christianity is embedded in a larger cosmic understanding which remains way ahead of us in human development to be capable of grasping. Again, it is time to move beyond the simple black or white polarity in this discussion.

  10. Simon M
    Posted April 24, 2016 at 12:06 am | Permalink

    In any case, it is the “co-incidences” between the BibleWheel discoveries and external events, as I have documented in The Whirling Wheels, which opens up this entire topic to another level. There is indeed “something bigger” on the table now. It is time to go beyond the basics, time to move past our own tightly held so-called “beliefs”, time to embrace a far more subtle and pluralistic approach if we are to truly make sense of these extraordinary patterns which have been discovered.
    The BibleWheel remains an enigma which, despite Richard’s best efforts to unwind, still has the power to fascinate and still demands explanation. if we are open to it, it is a call to examine our own thinking, and to move beyond outdated paradigms in which competing beliefs or views battle for supremacy. The universe is a far more complex and interesting place than such debates will ever grasp.

  11. Simon M
    Posted April 24, 2016 at 12:09 am | Permalink

    Again, to watch these two videos on youtube, both utterly crucial to understanding the next stage in the unfolding saga of the Biblewheel. search for “The Whirling Wheels” by Simon Miles, and “The Holy Menorah returns after 2000 years of diaspora to redeem the people of Israel”.

  12. Simon M
    Posted April 24, 2016 at 12:14 am | Permalink

    It’s time to move beyond hollow opinions, and simplistic justifications of existing positions. It is time to open up to an entire new body of evidence. I encourage everyone who reads this post to take the time to watch the video of The Whirling Wheels to see some extraordinary evidence which completely changes the landscape in regards to the BibleWheel, by showing that, in some manner, the discovery and revelation of the BIbleWheel to Richard McGough was independently witnessed by external events over which he could not have had any control. If I say so myself, it is highly provocative material which cries out for explanation.

  13. MichaelFree
    Posted April 24, 2016 at 12:23 am | Permalink

    I believe in the existence of at least one supernatural intelligent being. To other people besides myself I am rightfully a believer and not someone who can prove the factual truth of what I profess to believe.

  14. MichaelFree
    Posted April 24, 2016 at 12:54 am | Permalink

    The study of evolution is genuinely a worthy endeavor and I do not mean to sound otherwise. Most of it is built on facts and awesome science but the ultimate answer as to our genuine origins is left unresolved, in truth.

  15. Posted April 24, 2016 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    The “something bigger” can be found in my presentation “The Whirling Wheels”, available for viewing online at youtube.

    Hey there Simon,

    Glad you stopped by. Your long comment got caught in my spam filter because it had hyperlinks in it. It’s now approved. Sorry for the delay.

    Richard

  16. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 7, 2016 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    Hello Mr. McGough,

    I emailed you a message about Daniel and me : )
    It might be too lengthy for it to pass the spam filter, so, it may have ended up in your junk mail.
    I can absolutely prove you wrong in your assertions about the concept of “coincidence”, there is no such thing, it is a lie.

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Marie Duke

  17. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 7, 2016 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    Hello Mr. McGough,

    Here is the short answer. “Coincidence” does not exist because it voids purpose and reason, which do exist.
    Intentional purpose (voluntary or deliberate ) and unintentional purpose (involuntary or by accident) negate “coincidence” by means of reason. Just because you don’t understand or know the reason for something happening or not happening, doesn’t mean there isn’t an explanation for it. If there is no explanation for it by any reasonable understanding, then it is classified as a miracle which defies any and all known answers.

    I honestly didn’t think I would ever have to tell this to someone who studied quantum physics.

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Marie Duke

  18. Posted May 8, 2016 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    Hi Lisa,

    I got the email. I’ll respond after reading it.

    All the best,

    Richard

  19. Posted May 8, 2016 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    Here is the short answer. “Coincidence” does not exist because it voids purpose and reason, which do exist.
    Intentional purpose (voluntary or deliberate ) and unintentional purpose (involuntary or by accident) negate “coincidence” by means of reason. Just because you don’t understand or know the reason for something happening or not happening, doesn’t mean there isn’t an explanation for it. If there is no explanation for it by any reasonable understanding, then it is classified as a miracle which defies any and all known answers.

    Hey there Lisa,

    Your words make no sense to me. They seem to be self-contradictory. Webster’s dictionary defines intention as “the thing that you plan to do or achieve : an aim or purpose”. Therefore, the phrase “unintentional purpose” is oxymoronic. It has no meaning.

    But more to the point, why would anyone believe that everything has a purpose? There’s no way to prove it true and there are good reasons to think it false. For example, if there are no random events, why do many events follow the patterns we would expect if there were random? Flip a coin a hundred times and you will get the results expected from random chance, which can be mathematically measured.

    I honestly didn’t think I would ever have to tell this to someone who studied quantum physics.

    Why would you say that? Quantum Mechanics is based fundamentally on randomness. The quantum state vector only gives the probability for an event which occurs randomly without cause or purpose.

    All the best,

    Richard

  20. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 8, 2016 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Hello Mr. McGough,

    Thank you for your prompt answer : )

    “Seem to be self-contradictory”
    “Seem to be”?
    The definition of unintentional is “not done on purpose”.
    What can “coincidence” explain? There is no category for it. It is a made-up senseless word.
    You readily accept and find no fault with “intentional purpose”, why?
    Is it a “coincidence” you used the word “oxymoron”? lol You could have simply said the two words (unintentional and purpose) absolutely contradict each other.
    Did I intentionally or unintentionally use “unintentional purpose” together for a reason?
    Could I predict your answer to my connectioning these two words?
    There is no mystery in the choice you made to use the term “oxymoron”.
    Coincidence is void of logic, it doesn’t exist.
    Purpose can be applied to everything, whereas coincidence can be applied to nothing.

  21. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 8, 2016 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Marie Duke

  22. MichaelFree
    Posted May 8, 2016 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    I just have to prove one coincidence in life to prove Lisa wrong about coincidences not existing.

    On June 6 2006 thousands of children were born. They were all born on 6 6 6. They were all born into a world where billions of people apply the attribute of “evil” to the number 6 6 6.

    Is this a coincidence and nothing to fret over or is there a “miracle” behind it, is there “purpose” and “reason” behind it?

    You can tell children that there is purpose and logic behind being born specifically on 6 6 6 but I will not. I will instead tell them it is only a coincidence with which there is no action to be taken, and to be happy and free and to not contemplate the adults worthless witchcraft. I will tell them that the purpose and reason behind being born on 6 6 6 is for them to learn the lesson that there are coincidences in life.

    Sounds to me like Lisa is trying to make real life not contradict an existing belief system. Good luck with that one.

  23. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 9, 2016 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Hello Michael “Free”,

    Well you can be superstitious if you want to, but I don’t see how babies born on that date proves “coincidence”. People also dying on that date doesn’t prove “coincidence” either. People getting married on that date doesn’t prove “councidence” at all. I’m pretty sure a mosquito bit me on that date also.
    What about June 6, 1966? Or June 6, 1660? Or June 6, 1606? Or June 6, 1066? Or even June 6, 66 (AD)?
    Those are all dates you didn’t mention in your superstitious assumptions, good grief.
    Do you also avoid stepping on cracks in the sidewalk? How about breaking a mirror and 7 years bad “luck”? Do you believe those things also?
    You are really “out there” Mr. “Free”. Really out there.

    My birthday is June 17, 1966, and my husband Daniel’s birthday is July 21, 1960. There are (4) 6’s in those two dates, 3 in mine alone : ) maybe we also have something to do with the anti-christ??
    I pray you enjoy your short life here Mr. “Free”, I pray you enjoy it to the fullest! You are living proof of how illogical and senseless people can be.

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Marie Duke

  24. MichaelFree
    Posted May 9, 2016 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    There is no purpose or meaning to superstition, that was my whole point. If someone is superstitious and something happens in life that seems to match up with their superstition, then it’s only a COINCIDENCE.

  25. MichaelFree
    Posted May 9, 2016 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Lisa,

    Can you give an example of something happening in life that many people would call a coincidence, which you do not believe is a coincidence, because you don’t believe that coincidences exist?

    That would be helpful.

  26. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 9, 2016 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    In reference to (4) 6’s,
    You might consider this verse:
    Zechariah 4:6
    6 Then he said to me, This [addition of the bowl to the candlestick, causing it to yield a ceaseless supply of oil from the olive trees] is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit [of Whom the oil is a symbol], says the Lord of hosts.

    I shouldn’t be faulted for loving Jesus, after all, He’s my brother and the best friend I ever had in this world. No one else ever died for me, so I take that very seriously. I love my brother Daniel tons also, we are the same. You can say what you want to to me, you can do what you want to and be as mean as you want, and you can believe any way you want to (for a little while longer) but nothing anyone else does or says will ever convince me of anything different from what I’ve known all along. When I found out about Daniel, I was so excited, I thought to myself, wow, now I actually have the proof! But no, not really, you say, “I’d rather believe in coincidence”.
    So go ahead “coincidence believers”, stay in your stupid blindness you God haters!
    Very soon you will see!
    Sincerely,

    Lisa Marie Duke

  27. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 9, 2016 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Mr. “Free”,

    Please correctly identify a whatchamacallit (this should keep you busy awhile I’m sure).
    You only get one chance to do it, so choose your answer carefully.

    It will surely be a “coincidence” if you get the right answer : )

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Marie Duke

  28. Posted May 9, 2016 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    What can “coincidence” explain? There is no category for it. It is a made-up senseless word.

    The word “coincidence” is not meant as an “explanation” of anything. It describes two events that happened at the same time or in the same context that may or may not seem meaningfully connected. It describes two incidents that coincide.

    You readily accept and find no fault with “intentional purpose”, why?

    I did not feel a need to comment on it at that time. But if I did, I would have noted that it was a redundant phrase.

    Is it a “coincidence” you used the word “oxymoron”?

    Your question makes no sense because a coincidence always involves at least two incidents. My use of the word “oxymoron” was one incident. What other incident are you asking about?

    lol You could have simply said the two words (unintentional and purpose) absolutely contradict each other.

    Yes, there are usually many ways to say the same thing. What’s your point?

    Did I intentionally or unintentionally use “unintentional purpose” together for a reason?

    You are talking in circles. I cannot discern your intent.

    Could I predict your answer to my connectioning these two words?

    No, because I could have expressed the same idea using different words. Or I could have not responded to that point at all.

    There is no mystery in the choice you made to use the term “oxymoron”.

    Who said there was? Why would anyone think there would be a “mystery” when a word is accurately used?

    Coincidence is void of logic, it doesn’t exist.

    Your words make no sense. Coincidence is perfectly logical. It speaks of events that happen at the same time and may seem meaningfully connected but are not causally related.

    Purpose can be applied to everything, whereas coincidence can be applied to nothing.

    Again, your words make no sense. What “purpose” can be applied to the random numbers generated by rolling dice?

  29. Posted May 9, 2016 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    My birthday is June 17, 1966, and my husband Daniel’s birthday is July 21, 1960. There are (4) 6’s in those two dates, 3 in mine alone : ) maybe we also have something to do with the anti-christ??
    I pray you enjoy your short life here Mr. “Free”, I pray you enjoy it to the fullest! You are living proof of how illogical and senseless people can be.

    You have said that “Purpose can be applied to everything, whereas coincidence can be applied to nothing.” Please explain the “purpose” of those specific numbers in those birthdates. Why were you born on the 17th and not the 18th or 16th? Why does the month of June have four letters? Why do the names “Lucifer” and “Jesus” both sum to 74 in English Gematria?

    Here’s the real question: Why would anyone think that every random coincidence is really the result of a purpose? You have no way to know what those purposes are, let alone a way to prove that they are not meaningless coincidences.

  30. Posted May 9, 2016 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    There is no purpose or meaning to superstition, that was my whole point. If someone is superstitious and something happens in life that seems to match up with their superstition, then it’s only a COINCIDENCE.

    Well stated Michael.

  31. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 9, 2016 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    Mr. McGough,

    The Lord God Almighty knows every thing that ever was, ever is, and ever will be eternally.
    Everything you see, every concept that ever was, and everything that ever will be are His and His Alone and were purposed and ordained by Him.
    You say I can’t prove to you Almighty God exists, truthfully, it’s not my calling to convince you of anything, I already told you that.
    You can’t aknowledge Almighty God Mr. McGough because you’ve never truly known Him.
    That’s not saying you can’t know Him, but right now you really don’t want to for some reason. For some reason you have decided that everything is hogwash and you are on some “high” with your newfound higher level of thinking.
    My birthday and Daniel’s birthday are only significant as far as The Lord deciding how we are brought forth in His orchestration of His story in this space in eternity called “time”. It is a magnificent and marvelous orchestration that you can’t wrap your inferior flesh brain around and understand, so in retaliation, you say Almighty God does not exist.
    Your opinions are just that, opinions with no real evidence. You call what I have seen “coincidences”, I call them manifestations of Almighty God.
    The fact I know Almighty God personally and He talks to me is called having a relationship. Superstition is mysticism and it is of satan.
    My favorite constellation is Orion, my favorite food is spinach, and I like coffee with cream.
    If I share things with you because you might be interested in knowing, and you share things with me about you is that superstitious? You say can’t see Almighty God, and He has never spoken to you, therefore, according to you, He doesn’t exist. How does a blind man believe in colors he can’t see. How does a deaf man believe birds can sing if he can’t hear? I have seen, and I have heard and I believe, and I trust in, rely on and cling to Almighty God Who is my Creator, my Father, my Brother, my Savior, my Counselor, my Lord and my Best Friend forever. He has never hurt me, ever.

  32. Posted May 9, 2016 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    The Lord God Almighty knows every thing that ever was, ever is, and ever will be eternally.

    Hey there Lisa,

    Yes, everyone knows the dogma about God knowing everything. Muslims say the same thing about Allah. Why don’t you believe them? If you were born in a Muslim country your probably would be Muslim – that’s a statistical fact.

    Everything you see, every concept that ever was, and everything that ever will be are His and His Alone and were purposed and ordained by Him.

    Again, that’s the same thing the religions you reject would say. How is anyone supposed to discern between truth and error when there is no evidence? That’s why blind faith is the path to darkness and delusion, not truth.

    You say I can’t prove to you Almighty God exists, truthfully, it’s not my calling to convince you of anything, I already told you that.

    Then what is the purpose of your assertions? You make claims that sound exactly like any other believer. Why waste your breath if there is no reason to believe your words? Have you never thought about the fact that your claims are indistinguishable from all the others that you reject as false?

    You can’t aknowledge Almighty God Mr. McGough because you’ve never truly known Him.

    I was a Christian just like you are now. There is nothing you can say about your belief in Jesus that I could not have said when I was a believer. The difference is that after many years of making excuses for all the problems with the Bible and belief in God, I finally admitted the truth that there was no god answering my prayers. It was all in my own head.

    That’s not saying you can’t know Him, but right now you really don’t want to for some reason. For some reason you have decided that everything is hogwash and you are on some “high” with your newfound higher level of thinking.

    You don’t know me. Your words are false. I was a very dedicated Christian for well over a decade. I wanted to know God as much as any believer. But God didn’t show up. He’s not real. It has nothing to do with me “not wanting to believe.”

    Your opinions are just that, opinions with no real evidence. You call what I have seen “coincidences”, I call them manifestations of Almighty God.

    Not true. My opinions are based on logic and facts. If you could refute them you would. But you can’t because you have nothing but blind faith and personal anecdotes which are not proof of anything.

    The fact I know Almighty God personally and He talks to me is called having a relationship.

    And what do you call it when people say the same thing about a different God? Delusion.

    Superstition is mysticism and it is of satan.

    How is your religion any different than a superstition?

    You say can’t see Almighty God, and He has never spoken to you, therefore, according to you, He doesn’t exist. How does a blind man believe in colors he can’t see. How does a deaf man believe birds can sing if he can’t hear? I have seen, and I have heard and I believe, and I trust in, rely on and cling to Almighty God Who is my Creator, my Father, my Brother, my Savior, my Counselor, my Lord and my Best Friend forever. He has never hurt me, ever.

    I said almost exactly the same things when I was a Christian. You should read my post Why I Quit Christianity if you want to see how I was when I was a believer.

    The problem is not that I can’t “see” God in a literal sense. The problem is that there is no evidence of any God like the one described in the Bible and much evidence against such a God. There is no God who governs the world in justice. There is no God that can be trusted to do anything for anyone in this life. On the contrary, people who trust God for the health of their children end up with dead children and manslaughter convictions. If God could actually be trusted for anything then there would be no debate about his existence because anything that can be trusted must exist.

    If God existed and wanted to be seen he would be seen. He is not seen, so it’s either because he doesn’t exist or doesn’t want to be seen. I was a very dedicated Christian for over a decade. I just got tired of fooling myself and making up excuses for a God who wasn’t there.

  33. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 10, 2016 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Mr. McGough,

    Again, I will tell you, I am not trying to convince you of anything. According to you, we are only having a “discussion”. You also make “claims”, so, what is your purpose? “Almost exactly”, is an understanding which refutes itself. What is your understanding or perception of “justice” ? The “believer” people you say did not take their child for proper medical attention to keep their child from dying somehow proves God does not exist? How? Why do non “believers” kill their perfectly healthy babies by abortion? Why do some non “believers” and “believers” alike care for their crippled children? Is the parent or the child the cause for these actions? Does a picture also speak a thousand words to a blind man? Could an instrument sound better if it played itself?

    You say I am in some delusional darkness and that, according to you, I shouldn’t trust what I know. Why would you presume you know all that I know? How do you also presume to know all that I’ve seen? How utterly preposterous of you to tell me everything I’ve seen is a “coincidence”! : )
    Surely you can’t honestly believe you know everything there is to know, or have seen all there is to see. Your perception of “tangible” is not the same as mine. Have you ever read the story of Helen Keller? This is what she said,
    “I can see, and that is why I can be happy, in what you call the dark, but which to me is golden. I can see a God-made world, not a man-made world”.
    She claims The Lord came to her in her darkness and already knew Him, but it was later she was told His Name.

    I don’t need to see how you were in the time you tried being a “believer”, I can clearly see how your are now.
    There was also a time when people believed the world was flat. Beliefs come and go, that’s why I asked you not to call me a “believer” by your reference of Mormons and Muslims. If you were truly settled with everything, nothing else would matter to you, and you wouldn’t even waste one second thinking about God or even saying God doesn’t exist.

    I was not born “into” any “religion” no more than Abraham, Noah, or Adam (if you will allow me to make that comparison). In nearly 50 years of life I have met some Muslims, some in Judaism, some Atheists, some Catholics, some Mormons, some Jehovah’s witnesses, some Hindu, some Buddhists, some Rastafarians etc. I have met some very rich, some homeless, some very famous, some nameless, some with great intelligence, some without great intelligence, some with great physical strength, some invalids, some young, some old, some who liked me and some who did not like me.

    “You don’t know me” is what you said. So, if I met you face to face, how would I know you any better than I do now? Would you seeing me, in person, make me more tangible to you? If I were your brother or sister or father or mother, would you believe I would know more about you than you think I do now? Does time and space have some bearing on “knowing” someone beyond a shadow of a doubt? Do you trust your eyes more than your ears? Should a crippled man be angry that you have been given two strong legs? Do you feel guilty for seeing what the blind man can not? Does the blind man think you see more than he does? Does having strong legs and vision make you an unjust person?
    Do you spend an equal amount of time telling satan worshippers they are delusional also? The worship of self is the basis of their belief. satan wanted to be God, he deceived himself to believe he was smarter and more powerful so he was cast out. Is the belief in satan a superstition also? So, why did satan want to be God? Why was he not God in the first place? He knows he can’t defeat God, but believes he can–now that’s delusional. How many are a third of the angels he deceived? How exactly did he deceive them?

    How do you even know you are having a conversation with a person? Is God capable of speaking to you through a person? How do you know for a fact He has never spoken to you? Maybe you are not a good listener. Maybe you are not really as smart as you think you are.

    You see stars at night but you have never touched one. You trust in the evidence of gravity but you can’t see it either. You can’t even make a single green leaf, but you think that by you saying God does not exist somehow it makes it true?
    If there is no God then there is no satan. then who are you like? If there is no good then there is no evil, if there is no life then there is no death, if there is no truth then there is no lie, if there is no right then there is no wrong, if there is no light then there is no darkness. You want me to think like you do about Almighty God. I have an intimate relationship with Him and I love Him more than anything or anyone. Why is that wrong? Why do you say I am “like” everyone else in those “religions”? I suppose I could say that, to me, you act just like satan. Who made you an authority of anything? If 200,000 people agreed with you, does that mean you are right?
    I honestly don’t have any power to unconvince you of what it is you see or don’t see. I’m glad you are happy where you are : )

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Marie Duke

    Ps. Did you know (when you were a “believer”) that the widow who gave her last penny to The Lord was actually ordained to be one of the 24 elders?
    Did you also know the reason Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead is because satan didn’t have permission to kill him?
    Did you also know the reason The Lord placed the other Lazarus at the home of the rich man was to draw the rich man to compassion?
    Did you know Elijah and Moses are not the two witnesses?

  34. Posted May 10, 2016 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    Again, I will tell you, I am not trying to convince you of anything. According to you, we are only having a “discussion”. You also make “claims”, so, what is your purpose?

    My purpose is to hear what others think, clarify our thinking, expand our understanding, correct misunderstandings, enjoy discourse, etc.

    What is your understanding or perception of “justice” ?

    It is based on fairness, equality, the Golden Rule, rationality, reason, and things like that. If you want more details, you can read my article Morality is Objective, like a Pair of Scales: Another Fatal Flaw in Dr. Craig’s Moral Argument for God.

    The “believer” people you say did not take their child for proper medical attention to keep their child from dying somehow proves God does not exist? How?

    So you admit people must trust fallible human doctors because there is no God who can be trusted to heal their children? Great! That was my point. Believers constantly say they are trusting God when in fact they are relying on human knowledge and abilities that have nothing to do with any God. But they are so confused they often praise God for the work done by the human doctor who may well have been an atheist.

    It is a demonstrable fact that there is no god that can be trusted to do anything for anyone in this life. This directly contradicts the teachings of the Bible and so proves the Bible God cannot exist. If you want to discuss this point, see my article Is God Trustworthy? The Root of Religious Delusion.

    Why do non “believers” kill their perfectly healthy babies by abortion?

    Probably for the same kinds of reasons some “believers” do.

    Why do you put “believers” in quotes? How are you different than any other believer? You apparently believe in God and some interpretation of a book (the Bible) that you take as “scripture.” That makes you a believer every bit as much as any Mormon, Muslim, or Hindu.

    Why do some non “believers” and “believers” alike care for their crippled children?

    Because primates evolved a tendency towards empathy.

    Does a picture also speak a thousand words to a blind man?

    Maybe, if it’s written in braille.

    What is the difference between your experience of God and a figment of your own imagination?

    Is there any reason to think your imaginations are real if only you can see them?

    What about all the other believers who make similar claims but have contrary beliefs?

    You say I am in some delusional darkness and that, according to you, I shouldn’t trust what I know.

    I didn’t say that. I had said that your statements are similar to those of other believers, and then asked “How is anyone supposed to discern between truth and error when there is no evidence? That’s why blind faith is the path to darkness and delusion, not truth.” You didn’t quote me accurately and you didn’t answer my question. You’ve done that a number of times. This conversation would be a lot more interesting if you would actually answer the questions I ask.

    The same thing goes for your second statement. I never said that you should not trust what you know. On the contrary, I have been challenging you to question if you really know what you think you know. Humans are prone to self-delusion. Just look at all the crazy religions out there! Why do you simply assume that your beliefs are right and everyone who disagrees is wrong? Your claims appear to be based on words you read in a mere BOOK supported with cognitive errors like selection bias, confirmation bias, and rationalizations. These are the reasons people believe all sorts of crazy things that you agree are crazy. How do you know your beliefs are true? What if you were raised a Muslim and never questioned what you read in the Quran? How would you have freed yourself from your false beliefs if you never questioned them?

    Why would you presume you know all that I know?

    Why do you presume to know that I presume to know all that you know? I never said any such thing!

    How do you also presume to know all that I’ve seen?

    I never said I did.

    How utterly preposterous of you to tell me everything I’ve seen is a “coincidence”! : )

    I never said that. I have no idea of all the things you think you’ve seen. It could be that many of them happened only in your head since you have spoken of hearing voices and seeing things, right? So there are probably many explanations for the things that you have interpreted as “miracles” and “spiritual visions” and whatnot. Your emphasis on “coincidences” misses most of what I have to say on this topic. You have been using that word in a way that doesn’t really connect with my understanding of how people get deluded. Taking “coincidence” as “evidence” is a primary error, but it’s not the only one. Another big error is taking subjective feelings as evidence. And then there’s a whole host of cognitive errors like confirmation bias, cherry picking, rationalizations, etc. And then there is the huge error of believing a BOOK is “God’s Word.” There are many errors that cause people to fall into delusional belief systems. I have written a lot about this in these articles:

    Debunking Myself: What A Long Strange Trip It’s Been

    Debunking Myself: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

    Remember, you are not the only person on this planet who thinks their own personal beliefs about God are the ultimate truth. The same thing can be said for all those other believers your disagree with. Have you never thought about this?

    Surely you can’t honestly believe you know everything there is to know, or have seen all there is to see.

    Of course not! I’ve never said anything like that. Don’t be absurd.

    Your perception of “tangible” is not the same as mine. Have you ever read the story of Helen Keller? This is what she said,
    “I can see, and that is why I can be happy, in what you call the dark, but which to me is golden. I can see a God-made world, not a man-made world”.
    She claims The Lord came to her in her darkness and already knew Him, but it was later she was told His Name.

    That’s nice. I wonder how much you two would agree about? From what little I’ve learned about your specific beliefs, they seem highly idiosyncratic. Is there any group of believers that you actually agree with? Or have you invented your own version of Christianity (or whatever it is that you call it)?

    I don’t need to see how you were in the time you tried being a “believer”, I can clearly see how your are now.

    I didn’t say I “tried” to be a believer. I said I WAS a believer just like you claim to be. I honestly believed in God and the Bible and thought I had plenty of “experiences” that were not “coincidences”. But that doesn’t mean I was right, and it doesn’t mean you are right. You could be fooling yourself. It’s the most common thing we humans do when it comes to matters of religions and beliefs that can’t be proven.

    There was also a time when people believed the world was flat.

    And why don’t they believe that any more? Because of EVIDENCE! It’s funny that you mention the flat earth, since it taught in the Bible. Many believers opposed the idea that the earth was a sphere moving through space because the Bible plainly states that the earth “cannot be moved.”

    Beliefs come and go, that’s why I asked you not to call me a “believer” by your reference of Mormons and Muslims.

    Again I ask, why do you think your beliefs are so different than all the others? It sounds like you got yours from a book written by humans.

    If you were truly settled with everything, nothing else would matter to you, and you wouldn’t even waste one second thinking about God or even saying God doesn’t exist.

    Don’t be ridiculous. I spent years of my life involved with beliefs based on the Bible and so have a lot of interest in helping others free themselves from the kind of errors I fell into. And I enjoy it. It’s a kind of therapy.

    I was not born “into” any “religion” no more than Abraham, Noah, or Adam (if you will allow me to make that comparison).

    You were born into a world overflowing with religion and obviously have picked up your beliefs from the world since that is where you found the Bible.

    As for Abraham, he was born into the Canaanite religion, which is why he called his god by the Canaanite name “El.”

    In nearly 50 years of life I have met some Muslims, some in Judaism, some Atheists, some Catholics, some Mormons, some Jehovah’s witnesses, some Hindu, some Buddhists, some Rastafarians etc. I have met some very rich, some homeless, some very famous, some nameless, some with great intelligence, some without great intelligence, some with great physical strength, some invalids, some young, some old, some who liked me and some who did not like me.

    That’s wonderful. And in all those people, did you never meet even one who claimed to KNOW a god different than the one you claim to KNOW? If so, how would you tell which had actual knowledge and which was deluded?

    “You don’t know me” is what you said. So, if I met you face to face, how would I know you any better than I do now?

    When I said you don’t know me, it was to help you understand that you had no basis for your judgements. You simply did not know what (or rather who) you were talking about. That’s why your statements were often false.

    Would you seeing me, in person, make me more tangible to you?

    It has nothing to do with tangibility or meeting in person. I was talking about what I can know about you by what you have told me. If you have not told me something and I have no other way to know, then I can’t say it about you. You were saying things about me that you don’t know.

    Do you spend an equal amount of time telling satan worshippers they are delusional also?

    If they came here and tried to tell me about their beliefs I would explain why I thought they were delusional.

    The worship of self is the basis of their belief. satan wanted to be God, he deceived himself to believe he was smarter and more powerful so he was cast out. Is the belief in satan a superstition also?

    Yes, Satan is an imaginary being like angels and God and all that. Christians hold all sorts of contradictory beliefs about Satan. Many don’t believe in him and most Jews think he was just another one of God’s angels. The Bible is terribly confused on this issue, since in one passage it says God did something but then in a parallel passage says it was Satan.

    So, why did satan want to be God? Why was he not God in the first place? He knows he can’t defeat God, but believes he can–now that’s delusional. How many are a third of the angels he deceived? How exactly did he deceive them?

    Those questions show how crazy the Satan dogmas really are.

    How do you even know you are having a conversation with a person? Is God capable of speaking to you through a person?

    Ha! That’s hilarious. If you are really God then you already know the answer so I don’t need to explain it (which would be quite tedious).

    How do you know for a fact He has never spoken to you? Maybe you are not a good listener.

    I’m not a “believer” so I don’t claim to “know” things I don’t know. But I do have good reason to doubt that any god has spoken to me since my evidence would be indistinguishable from similar claims made by people like you and those you disagree with.

    Maybe you are not really as smart as you think you are.

    I don’t I’m as smart as you seem to think I think. But I do think that you have exposed your arrogance by saying that to me.

    You see stars at night but you have never touched one. You trust in the evidence of gravity but you can’t see it either. You can’t even make a single green leaf, but you think that by you saying God does not exist somehow it makes it true?

    Your logic is abominable. I have never said that “saying God does not exist makes it true.” Nothing could be more absurd.

    If there is no God then there is no satan. then who are you like?

    Who am I like? I am very similar to our genetic relatives, the Great Apes, which includes humans, gorillas, chimpanzees, etc.

    If there is no good then there is no evil,

    Good has nothing to do with any God. See my article The Logic of Love: A Natural Theory of Morality

    if there is no life then there is no death,

    It seems pretty obvious that there is life and death …

    if there is no truth then there is no lie,

    And there’s plenty of truth and lies in the world.

    if there is no right then there is no wrong,

    Many things are right and many things are wrong.

    if there is no light then there is no darkness.

    I see plenty of both.

    You want me to think like you do about Almighty God. I have an intimate relationship with Him and I love Him more than anything or anyone. Why is that wrong? Why do you say I am “like” everyone else in those “religions”? I suppose I could say that, to me, you act just like satan. Who made you an authority of anything? If 200,000 people agreed with you, does that mean you are right?

    I don’t care if you want to believe in God. But you came here and made a bunch of statements about your God as if they were objective facts, and so I challenged them, just like I would if a Muslim made claims about Allah or a Scientologist started popping off about L. Ron Hubbard. I’m not treating you different than any believer.

    I say you are “like” other believers because I am trying to help you see the truth. Your reasons for believing in your God are based on the same kinds of cognitive errors as everyone else’s.

    You could say that I act “just like Satan” but you would be wrong because I don’t.

    If I am wrong about you, all you need to do is explain how your beliefs are any different than all the others.

    I honestly don’t have any power to unconvince you of what it is you see or don’t see. I’m glad you are happy where you are : )

    Not true. You have all the power in the world to convince me. All you need to do is produce some clear logic supported with evidence.

    Ps. Did you know (when you were a “believer”) that the widow who gave her last penny to The Lord was actually ordained to be one of the 24 elders?
    Did you also know the reason Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead is because satan didn’t have permission to kill him?
    Did you also know the reason The Lord placed the other Lazarus at the home of the rich man was to draw the rich man to compassion?
    Did you know Elijah and Moses are not the two witnesses?

    How did you come to those conclusions? It would be interesting to know.

  35. Simon M
    Posted May 11, 2016 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    All of these discussions, and I mean all of them, are simply exchanges from fixed positions. On the one hand, we have Christians. On the other hand, we have non-Christians. The only comments ever made here or anywhere for that matter dealing with these topics is each side telling the other side how wrong they are and attempting to change the other person’s allegiance. Boring! Everyone is just set to auto-pilot, like self-propelling arguing machines, automatically spewing forth their side of the position. I’m right! You’re wrong! I never said that! Why, how dare you! And another thing….

    Your “faith” or “non-faith” is completely irrelevant. Put it aside. Put it down. Forget about it. No one gives a crap if you a Christian or a non-Christian. You still have bills to pay. You still have people to deal with. Your shit stinks, just like the guy in the next cubicle. Get over yourself. The universe is huge and long-lasting and your brain is a tiny speck and you have only been here ten minutes, so whatever you think you know is entirely besides the point anyway. It’s like a tank full of amoeba arguing over whether up or down is better. Up, I tell you! No, no, it’s down!

    Here’s a fun exercise. Put aside everything you think you know about how the world works, and watch my video The Whirling Wheels. Now “explain” how Richard McGough came up with the idea of the Biblewheel on the exact day of the completion of the 2,200th year since the Antikythera device was calibrated. You can’t. There is no explanation. Don’t use the word co-incidence, it is meaningless. Don’t use the word God, which is equally meaningless. You are basically completely lost in the ocean of unknowing. There is no explanation. There is nothing to say in the teeth of our complete ignorance, except perhaps “wow”. There is no conclusion except to realise you know nothing.

    And that’s why no one has anything to say about that video, except “wow”. Instead, everyone just ignores it, and goes back to the boring he-said-she-said circular argument which goes round and round and round and round as it has for two thousand years, and the rest. A complete waste of breath.

    Now, with that, I will get out of the way and let you all get back to bickering over whether your faith is stronger than her lack of faith, or what you read trumps what the other guy read, or whether this theory smacks down that theory. Have at it.

  36. Posted May 11, 2016 at 6:30 am | Permalink

    Here’s a fun exercise. Put aside everything you think you know about how the world works, and watch my video The Whirling Wheels. Now “explain” how Richard McGough came up with the idea of the Biblewheel on the exact day of the completion of the 2,200th year since the Antikythera device was calibrated. You can’t. There is no explanation. Don’t use the word co-incidence, it is meaningless. Don’t use the word God, which is equally meaningless. You are basically completely lost in the ocean of unknowing. There is no explanation. There is nothing to say in the teeth of our complete ignorance, except perhaps “wow”. There is no conclusion except to realise you know nothing.

    Hey there Simon,

    How would it be possible to accurately “explain” your claims about a series of coincidences without using the word “coincidence”? Your video (which was very well done by the way) is based fundamentally on the fact that some dates and shapes coincide. That is the definition of “coincidence.” Before asking others to answer your question, I think you need to explain why anyone should think coincidences are evidence of anything. Meaningless coincidences happen every day. If you want to claim that there is some “meaning” or reason to go “wow” when seeing a coincidence, you need to have a method to discern between meaningful and meaningless coincidences. Taking coincidences as “evidence” is one of the primary errors that leads to belief in crazy things like astrology, Tarot, pyramid power, Scientology, God, and religions. I explain how this mistake misled me in these two articles:

    Debunking Myself: What A Long Strange Trip It’s Been

    Debunking Myself: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

    I am really glad you brought this up because it touches the absolute core of how people come to believe “weird things” that are not actually supported by logic and facts, evidence and reason. I began writing a long detailed response to your last post but got distracted so now I will finish it. Until then,

    All the best,

    Richard

  37. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 11, 2016 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    At this point,
    I will address this message as such,
    Whoever has an ear to hear let him hear! (Kind of sounds official)

    I am not a “Christian” (that term has no absolute meaning these days)
    I am a servant of The Lord Jesus, I belong to Him. “Consecrated” to Him is what He told me, so it means I belong to Him. I couldn’t care less what you all say, I didn’t even care to read all your jibberish.
    So, you say, Almighty God doesn’t answer (all) prayers, please insert that variable because it’s necessary.
    You have to make “excuses” for Him? Who asked you to? Almighty God neither asked you for nor needs any so-called explanation for why He does what He does. You may want to consider other variables such as timing. You may want to consider how long the children if Israel waited for Jesus (Messiah) to come, or how long Abraham waited for Isaac to come. Or Joseph (my favorite account) how did Joseph know what the heck was going on? He didn’t at first, but he trusted The Lord. So how do you explain the tomb of Joseph having no bones? It’s simple, the children of Israel took them with them when they left the Goshen area (Egypt). How do you also explain the recent findings of the chariots with gold wheels in the Red Sea where they crossed? A hoax? Pretty elaborate for a hoax.
    10 years??
    “I was a ‘Christian’ for ten years”, oh, ok. So weak faith coupled with your demands to Almighty God to do things your way?? It’s not yours to say, control, orchestrate, or dominate.
    “Thou shall not murder”, tell that to the murderers aborting children (sacrifice to baal)
    “Thou shall not steal”–how many prisons do you see?
    “Thou shall not commit adultry”–adultry in marriage, tattoos and piercings (vile Egyptian practice), skulls are the new fashion trend?? Skull “Golgotha”, yeah satan go ahead, dance around and parade all your works.
    Good grief, TV shows, billboards, magazines, Hollywood movies, “lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and the boastful PRIDE of life” everything advocating the worship of flesh!! Do as you want to, what ever “feels” good.
    10 years?? Oh my, just a spit in a bucket. Am I making light of your expectation Mr. McGough? No, but you act like a pouting spoiled child. So stay in your corner and snivel and pout and whine all you want to. You wanted a miracle? For what reason? To look super spiritual for all your friends in your church club? I’ve seen plenty of those wackjobs. Was it so you could make Almighty God bow before you and do what you say? Just like The Lord Jesus rebuked James and John, “You don’t even know what spirit you are”. Fortunately for you He didn’t send a bolt of lightning! Ha! You are the epitome of “throwing the baby out with the bath water”.
    10 years? Good grief, send me your address and I’ll send you a plaque to hang on your wall in memory of your feeble attempted service to All Mighty God.
    satan has been around a long time, and has also studied men, just like “psychopaths” (seed of satan). If you know anything about them. he’s had a long time to pile up lies and knows a lot of ways to encourage men along in their wicked desires, is it any wonder a lot of people are so willing to serve him? The wicked inventions of man’s flesh and satan is beyond belief.
    How long has the stench of wicked men and their satan controlled flesh been flaunted before Almighty God, an immeasurable HOLY God, The Perfect and Pure God? He has had to deal with this wickedness for how long? Talk to me about justice

    “It is based on fairness, equality, the Golden Rule, rationality, reason, and things like that.”

    Oh, ok.

    “We The People” in order to form a more perfect union establish Justice…..blah, blah, blah

    We “The” People?? When did they decide it was We, THE People? The Lord Told me the Constitution was a flawed document. The framers of this document asked Almighty God for deliverance, winning the greatest battle in history, and it only took 12 years to decide it was theirs alone. It should have read, “Under The Authority and Governance of our Almighty and Soverign Creator, we the people……
    or something like that. “They honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me”
    So, what was the new nation’s first order of business?
    Slaughter the Indian, in Jesus Name, they slaughtered the Indians!
    Do you think Almighty God has forgotten? No
    Who were these peaceful peoples? They helped the early settlers from all dying, how were they repaid?
    Even Benjamin Franklin studied them. They worshipped “The One God” “The Great Spirit”, they had no formal “Bible”, no monetary system, they were in tribes, lived mostly in tents, they took care of their elderly, they were artistic, hard working, they wasted nothing and only took from the land what they needed, they were thankful for everything, and they were clean–the European’s stunk (according to them), and they were good givers.
    Is Almighty God responsible for the greedy and murderous hearts of Thomas Jefferson and those like him?
    No, and again, He does not forget what they did to the Indian.
    He told me the Indians (in the day of the buffalo) did not offend Him.
    The European white men corrupted them. However, everyone is responsible for their own actions.
    The Lord told me I was “Jewish” a long time ago but I couldn’t prove it. Now recently, genetic study and testing has linked the Indian to the Hebrew tribes.

    “God bless America”?? Their “blessings” are cursed, rewards by satan. America, Where every tribe and every nation is gathered.
    The whore woman on “many” waters. “Many” in Greek means “great”, so, the statue of liberty is the whore who sits on the Atlantic, a great body of water.
    Are you all that blind? Sure, The Lord did say, “Their foolish hearts would be darkened”.
    I can understand why Jonah wanted to see the wicked people judged. I’m not afraid of being killed though.

    Who’s in the dark you foolish wise ones??

    “a time never before seen”, The Great Tribulation. It shook Daniel to the core hearing this prophecy(nothing before this ever bothered Daniel, but this news did). You may want to consider that.

    The Lord Jesus said, “it will be as in the day of Noah”. So, if you know drowning takes about 12 seconds, the 3 1/2 year great tribulation is a bit longer. The Lord God Almighty’s last act of grace. The necessary purification before The Lord Jesus comes again.

    Are you yawning and chuckling again oh you boastful scoffers?

    I do weep for the sake of your small children.

    “Many will purify themselves, but the wicked shall do wickedly”
    If I were to give you a glimpse of what to expect, I could use a combination of some movies to sort of describe it. If you combine Mad Max + I Am Legend + Day of the Zombies plus add a huge dose of steroids, it comes close.

    “Go your way Daniel”, it’s not for you, you will not be involved in this. This event happens at the end of times.

    What has this world done with The Greatest Gift Ever given?

    The world is without excuse, after all, you all had The Word, The Lord Jesus, and His Holy Spirit to lead and guide you in this test! “To whom much is given much is required”. It might be good to brush up on some wilderness survival skills.

    “It is finished”, The Lord Jesus said.

    The time of spreading the news is over also, everyone’s heard, so how does this world look today?

    It still chooses the flesh, and more than ever before.

    So, when there is no food, what will people eat? (Please note the above movie reference)

    The warning came a long time ago. “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction” , “the calm before the storm”. The predominant message of the prophets and Jesus Himself also was judgement.

    “Sodom and Egypt, where The Lord was also crucified”. “Also crucified”?
    “And The Word became flesh”. The Lord died in flesh first. Then the preachers and teachers of the printed Bible became rich off Almighty God’s written Word and deceived the people. It’s been going on for a long time. 1 Timothy 4: 1
    The United States, greatest nation on Earth, the great Babylon, more preachers here than anywhere. So, they spread throughout the world the message of the gospel? No, they spread the message of entitlement, Grace is a credit card to sin, do as you please–Jesus paid for it! Peace, peace, you will all be raptured before the bad stuff starts!
    Liars, just like satan, “surely Eve, you will not die”.

    So Abraham pleaded for Sodom’s sake, “Lord, if there be ten righteous among the wicked?”
    No, there is not one.
    So the two angels came and destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.

    So now we are here, the time of the end. Of course, this warning message will not be taken seriously by anyone (right now).
    So, please return to watching your favorite TV “reality show”.

    20/20 clear vision and hind sight is also 20/20, “coincidence”?

    “He who endures to the end will be saved”

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Marie Duke

  38. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 11, 2016 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    The Lord told me to read your super intelligent response to Helen Keller!
    “That’s nice”.
    Lol! Thank You Lord for Helen Keller!
    “That’s nice” ?

    “Helen Keller, oh but you can’t rationalize Helen Keller away. You can’t call her delusional. You can’t explain her by “coincidence”.
    “I can see, and that is why I can be happy, in what you call the dark, but which to me is golden. I can see a God-made world, not a man-made world”.
    She claims The Lord came to her in her darkness and already knew Him, but it was later she was told His Name.”

    “That’s nice”

    Your Honor, Lord Jesus, let the record reflect, Mr. McGough can give no answer or explaination for how Helen Keller knew You in her blindness and deafness.
    I humbly submit to you, Your Honor, Lord Jesus, that Mr. McGough is not credible!

    Case dismissed!

  39. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 11, 2016 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    Ok, so another couple errors that need to be addressed:
    The Bible does not say the earth is flat, thank you Mr. Holding for your rebuttal to Mr. Seely.
    http://creation.mobi/is-the-erets-earth-flat

    People can believe they are akin to monkeys if they want to (who am I to argue with that : ))
    Apes and monkeys also lack the ability to reason. Animals are governed by instinct, however, they can be trained, and have trained responses.

    Evolution can not even begin to explain all the plant life (I guess we are supposed to ignore it somehow)
    As far as Darwin andthe evolution of animals, Dr. Jobe Martin does an excellent job of explaining. He also used to teach evolution, so here is his website:
    http://www.evolutionofacreationist.com

  40. Posted May 11, 2016 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    “Helen Keller, oh but you can’t rationalize Helen Keller away. You can’t call her delusional. You can’t explain her by “coincidence”.
    “I can see, and that is why I can be happy, in what you call the dark, but which to me is golden. I can see a God-made world, not a man-made world”.
    She claims The Lord came to her in her darkness and already knew Him, but it was later she was told His Name.”

    “That’s nice”

    What are you babbling about? Your quote from Helen Keller does not say that “The Lord came to her in her darkness” let alone that she “already knew Him.” If you made such false testimony before a real judge, your case would be dismissed with laughter.

    But that just the beginning of the absurdity of your claims. Did you cite the source for the quotes you attribute to Helen Keller? No, you did not. How then do you know they are true? You don’t. You merely lifted them from some book or website because you thought you could use them to make a case for your religious delusions. So you prove again that you don’t give a shit about truth. Again, a just judge would dismiss your case with derisive laughter.

    And yet there is more absurdity in your short post. What exactly did I need to rationalize? Helen Keller said nothing that supports your peculiar version of Christianity. That’s why I said “That’s nice. I wonder how much you two would agree about? From what little I’ve learned about your specific beliefs, they seem highly idiosyncratic. Is there any group of believers that you actually agree with? Or have you invented your own version of Christianity (or whatever it is that you call it)?” And how did you respond? You didn’t even try to answer my question. And now I can see why. You have indeed made up your own religion. And worse, you care so little for truth that you didn’t even check to find out what Helen Keller actually believed. She would have rejected most of your doctrines about salvation and Satan and a thousand other things. She was a lifelong follower of the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg, a mystic who made up his own idiosyncratic version of Christianity. Here is the preface she wrote to his book called “The True Christian Religion by Emanuel Swedenborg, a Servant of the Lord Jesus Christ: –

    SINCE I was sixteen years old, I have been a strong believer in the doctrines given to the world by Emanuel Swedenborg. It was his mission to teach men to listen to the inward voice rather than to opinions and disputations. After many years of reverent study of the Bible, I gratefully wonder if I am not more indebted to Swedenborg for the faith that turns my darkness to light than I have yet realized. I acknowledge my profound indebtedness to Emanuel Swedenborg for a richer interpretation of the Bible, a deeper understanding of the meaning of Christianity, and a precious sense of the Divine Presence in the world.

    The quote that you posted sounds like something she would have learned from Swedenborg which is exactly what we would expect because her private tutor was one of his followers! LOL. Your “evidence” is utterly refuted. It says nothing about “The Lord Jesus Christ” coming to her in her darkness. She doesn’t even mention Christ once in her autobiography! She is a very valuable witness, not because she supports your beliefs, but because she exposes how you blindly grab any random quote from the internet in your vain effort to justify your delusional religion.

    Your Honor, Lord Jesus, let the record reflect, Mr. McGough can give no answer or explaination for how Helen Keller knew You in her blindness and deafness.
    I humbly submit to you, Your Honor, Lord Jesus, that Mr. McGough is not credible!

    Case dismissed!

    Ha! Dream on Lisa.

  41. Posted May 11, 2016 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    So now we are here, the time of the end. Of course, this warning message will not be taken seriously by anyone (right now).

    Ha! You’ve got to be kidding! Don’t you doomsdayers ever learn? Christians have been predicting the “end of the world” for nearly two thousand years, and they’ve always been wrong. There is no group on earth with a more perfect unbroken record of total idiotic error than doomsday Christians.

    If you are going to make up your own version of the religion, maybe it would have been wise to take the opportunity to drop the failed doomsday predictions! LOL

    So what date are you predicting? Or are you hedging your bets and just saying it will be “soon” (like all the loons have been saying for the last 2000 years)? LOL

    Did you hear of Harold Camping? He said the Rapture would happen on May 21, 2011 and that the “Bible guaranteed it.” You remind me of him. ;)

  42. Posted May 11, 2016 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    The Lord told me I was “Jewish” a long time ago but I couldn’t prove it. Now recently, genetic study and testing has linked the Indian to the Hebrew tribes.

    So you believe genetic studies when they confirm what your religion but reject them when they confirm evolution? That’s a textbook case of confirmation bias, which is a primary cause of delusional beliefs.

    Furthermore, the study did not say they were necessary “Jewish” but could have been “north African.” So again, we see you fudging the data to fit what you want to believe.

    And most damning of all, the DNA may have come from a 17th century slave shipped to America and so does not support the idea that the “indians” were “Jewish.”

    You really need to become a little more skeptical if you don’t want to be a gullible fool.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/dna-scientists-claim-that-cherokees-are-from-the-middle-east

  43. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 12, 2016 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Mr McGough,

    Fortunately, you are not a judge, and you have had no experience as a judge.
    A proper judge would first consider the state of Helen Keller in her initial helpless condition.
    Helen Keller gave her own (eye witness) testimony about The Lord Jesus, this testimony was heard by witnesses and recorded. The evidence is beyond even a shadow of any doubt given the fact doctors confirmed her complete blindness and deftness. Her behavior in her prior state of “unreachableness” by anyone around her was also recorded. She later gave testimony that The Lord had already reached her in her helplessness, fear, and confusion and comforted her. I have never heard anyone but you, Mr. McGough, try to discredit her testimony, or even question it for that matter.

    I provided you a direct quote, (?) To further provide you clarity as to what other’s knew and know today about Helen Keller, but I will simplify it even more, as best I can. I will also provide actual testimony of other credible witnesses as well.

    Helen Keller used two terms in comparison, “God-made world” and “man-made”.

    You can read the book, “The Miracle Worker”.

    Ann Sullivan (her teacher)
    https://www.gci.org/CO/1012/miracle

    Phillips Brooks was a well-known Pastor Helen Keller also inspired by her testimony about Almighty God:
    http://library.brown.edu/cds/repository2/repoman.php?verb=render&id=1250712264312500&view=pageturner&pageno=3

    Whether you realize it or not Mr. McGough, you are similar to Helen Keller was before she could be “reached”.
    http://www.harvardichthus.org/2014/02/helen-keller-divine-sovereignty-and-free-will/

    The end, of this space in eternity called “time”, has long been recorded. Death itself, whether observed in plants, animals, or man is understood by all as eventual (occurring at the end of or as a result of a series of events; final; ultimate), surely you can’t argue with that.

    The unknown question is whether or not something happens after death. If nothing happens after death, then there is nothing to wonder about. If there is something after death, then there is something to wonder about.

    So, who should, or what should you believe?

    What is free will?

    I said before, and I’m happy to tell you again, I am not part of any old religion or any new religion. If you would care to describe me more accurately, and by my preference, my desire is to be described as my teacher and friend. I know Him as Jesus, as He, and no one else, has shown Himself to me. I am His servant. I trust Him. Whether I am a perfect servant or not is a only a matter of His saying so or not. I have good days as well as bad. I do try very much to be good, although taking into account a variety of extenuating factors, I believe I fall short on occasion. So, when I wake up every day, I try again to be like my teacher.
    Religions are the product of the ideas of men. The voice I heard at 3 has been the most real of anything I have ever known. How do I explain that to you? Or anyone for that matter? How could you think it possible for you to have the ability to make me forget the voice?

    In the world today, there is a vast amount of knowledge and information, living creatures, plants, machines, and gadgets. There are many different kinds of people. There are many things to do and see and experience. However, there is one concept to which we can not control and that is “time”. How long a person lives is how long a person lives.

    Just how a person’s time is used has many variables also.
    What is important? What is necessary?
    To answer these questions, there are other concepts and factors for one to consider:

    1. Choice (good or bad)
    2. Free will (the choice to do or not do)
    3. Desire
    4. Reason
    5. Experience
    6. Condition (having ability or not having ability)
    7. Perception (awareness)

    There are many choices out there, so, how do we know which is a good choice, and which is a bad choice? What can I choose? Will I choose the right or the wrong, and which is which? I like certain things, I don’t like other things. I want certain things, I don’t want certain things. What reason or reasons a person chooses or not chooses, likes or dislikes, or desires or does not desire, experiences or does not experience, perceives or does not perceive, yet, they are all connected.

    If I found you in a state of coldness and shivering. I would have several choices. I could care or not care. I could pretend I didn’t see you or just stare at you. I could help you or not help you. If I did not have the means to help you, I could either walk away or stand next to you. I could even sit next to you. How long I sat next to you would be a choice also. I could put my arms around you and try to warm you to bring you relief and change the state I found you in.
    I could also kill you and put you out of your misery (an undesirable choice, but still a choice).
    If I had a wool sweater and I gave it to you and said, “Here, put this on, it will help”. What if you didn’t know what it was? What if you didn’t know if I was trying to help you or hurt you? What if we didn’t even speak the same language?
    What next?
    I would put the sweater on myself to show you first how you also could put it on. Then I would take it off and give it to you to touch. No doubt, you would feel the warmth of it in your hands. By my example, you might even decide to do as I did and put it on. The wool sweater would give you a new understanding that you are now warmer with it on, whereas before, without it on, you were cold. Your perception of this thing (sweater) would be nothing more than it helped you out of your coldness. Your perception of me would then be different as a result of my giving you the sweater.

    Now, what if you were not receptive to me at all? What if you lashed out at me and motioned me to go away or said, “No, I don’t want that, I don’t like it!”
    What then?
    What are my choices? I could walk away and let you freeze to death. I could think someone else will come along and you might let them help you. I could think someone else might come along and hurt and kill you also. I could stay with you and let you attack me further.

    So, say that I know you will freeze to death and die if I leave you. Maybe I know that you don’t understand you will freeze to death. Maybe I see you will attack me further. But I know that I am stronger than you.
    What are my choices?
    I could knock you out and then put the sweater on you.
    When you wake up, you will be warm and you will see a difference? Maybe. Or maybe you won’t notice the sweater, and be even more angry and try and still try to kill me.

    This battle could go on and on for a long time. There are many variables to this scene. The answer would be simple if understood correctly by both sides.

    The giver and the receiver. When do the two become one? What right understanding needs to happen to make that connection?

    Whether you understand or comprehend my intentions for the sweater, your understanding you are cold, your lack of understanding the sweater will help, or any other variable, really doesn’t matter.

    It all comes down to trust. Do we trust by evidence? Trust the look of a person? Trust their voice? Trust what we see? Trusting what you know or think you know? Again, a lot of variables.
    Stories or lies, truth or actual events.

    I can only speak from the testimony The Lord Jesus gave me. I know His voice and I trust Him to show me the way to Him.

    He took off the only sweater He had and died so I could be warm and live.

    I was 5 when I saw the cross. They told me His Name. They said He died for me so I could live.

    My heart broke and I was blinded.

    The same love that held Him to the cross holds me. I will not be moved by anything or anyone else.

    I will speak His Name at my last breath. I promise

    Whether I’m right or whether I’m wrong, or in your opinion “delusional” and like everyone else, doesn’t matter to me, I’ve heard the same stories before.

    Ultimately, time, or the end of it, will tell us both : )

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Marie Duke

  44. Posted May 12, 2016 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    Fortunately, you are not a judge, and you have had no experience as a judge.

    All people must judge for themselves in matters such as these.

    The case you present is so abysmal no one needs a degree in jurisprudence to see its many errors.

    A proper judge would first consider the state of Helen Keller in her initial helpless condition.

    A proper judge would also look at who implanted the religious ideas in the mind of that poor deaf and blind child. The answer is as obvious as it is well recorded: her teachers, preachers, parents and friends told her about God, Jesus, and the Bible. And she finally ended up following the fringe sect of one of her primary teachers and became a devout follower of Swedenborgianism.

    Her first teacher was Miss Sullivan, a more traditional Christian. Here is her record of Keller’s reaction when she tried to teach her about the Christian God. It is included in Helen Keller’s autobiography The Story of My Life (which you can download here):

    After she had succeeded in formulating the ideas which had been slowly growing in her mind, they seemed suddenly to absorb all her thoughts, and she became impatient to have everything explained.

    As we were passing a large globe a short time after she had written the questions, she stopped before it and asked, “Who made the REAL world?” I replied, “No one knows how the earth, the sun, and all the worlds which we call stars came to be; but I will tell you how wise men have tried to account for their origin, and to interpret the great and mysterious forces of nature.”

    She knew that the Greeks had many gods to whom they ascribed various powers, because they believed that the sun, the lightning, and a hundred other natural forces, were independent and superhuman powers. But after a great deal of thought and study, I told her, men came to believe that all forces were manifestations of one power, and to that power they gave the name GOD.

    She was very still for a few minutes, evidently thinking earnestly. She then asked, “Who made God?” I was compelled to evade her question, for I could not explain to her the mystery of a selfexistent being. Indeed, many of her eager questions would have puzzled a far wiser person than I am. Here are some of them: “What did God make the new worlds out of?” “Where did He get the soil, and the water, and the seeds, and the first animals?” “Where is God?” “Did you ever see God?” I told her that God was everywhere, and that she must not think of Him as a person, but as the life, the mind, the soul of everything. She interrupted me: “Everything does not have life. The rocks have not life, and they cannot think.” It is often necessary to remind her that there are infinitely many things that the wisest people in the world cannot explain.

    No creed or dogma has been taught to Helen, nor has any effort been made to force religious beliefs upon her attention. Being fully aware of my own incompetence to give her any adequate explanations of the mysteries which underlie the names of God, soul, and immortality, I have always felt obliged, by a sense of duty to my pupil, to say as little as possible about spiritual matters. The Rt. Rev. Phillips Brooks has explained to her in a beautiful way the fatherhood of God.

    She has not as yet been allowed to read the Bible, because I do not see how she can do so at present without getting a very erroneous conception of the attributes of God. I have already told her in simple language of the beautiful and helpful life of Jesus, and of His cruel death. The narrative affected her greatly when first she listened to it. When she referred to our conversation again, it was to ask, “Why did not Jesus go away, so that His enemies could not find Him?” She thought the miracles of Jesus very strange. When told that Jesus walked on the sea to meet His disciples, she said, decidedly, “It does not mean WALKED, it means SWAM.” When told of the instance in which Jesus raised the dead, she was much perplexed, saying, “I did not know life could come back into the dead body!”

    One day she said, sadly: “I am blind and deaf. That is why I cannot see God.” I taught her the word INVISIBLE, and told her we could not see God with our eyes, because He was a spirit; but that when our hearts were full of goodness and gentleness, then we saw Him because then we were more like Him.

    Note carefully that Rev. Brooks, the one who supposedly reported that Keller had said “I knew Him, but didn’t know His name” had already told her about “God the Father” and she showed no recognition of “Him” at that time. Despite the best efforts of both her teacher and her preacher, she said nothing that would indicate she personally “knew” God, let alone Jesus Christ, and had suddenly learned “His name.” Your claims have been refuted.

    Helen Keller gave her own (eye witness) testimony about The Lord Jesus, this testimony was heard by witnesses and recorded. The evidence is beyond even a shadow of any doubt given the fact doctors confirmed her complete blindness and deftness. Her behavior in her prior state of “unreachableness” by anyone around her was also recorded. She later gave testimony that The Lord had already reached her in her helplessness, fear, and confusion and comforted her. I have never heard anyone but you, Mr. McGough, try to discredit her testimony, or even question it for that matter.

    I provided you a direct quote, (?) To further provide you clarity as to what other’s knew and know today about Helen Keller, but I will simplify it even more, as best I can. I will also provide actual testimony of other credible witnesses as well.

    Helen Keller used two terms in comparison, “God-made world” and “man-made”.

    You can read the book, “The Miracle Worker”.

    Ann Sullivan (her teacher)
    https://www.gci.org/CO/1012/miracle

    Phillips Brooks was a well-known Pastor Helen Keller also inspired by her testimony about Almighty God:
    http://library.brown.edu/cds/repository2/repoman.php?verb=render&id=1250712264312500&view=pageturner&pageno=3

    Your words false. You did not provided any evidence that Helen Keller “gave her own testimony about The Lord Jesus Christ”. The links you posted do not support your claims at all. The first link is nothing but hearsay without any citation of a verifiable source of the quote “I knew Him, but didn’t know His name.” And worse, I could not find that quote in your second link which points to the actual letters between Keller and Brooks that were supposed to contain it! I have searched the net for the source of that quote and could not find it. It looks like it could be nothing but hearsay. In any case, you have utterly failed to supply any evidence supporting your case.

    And worst of all, your claims are directly contradicted by the evidence (in Keller’s own autobiography!) that she was TOLD about Christianity just like every other believer who has ever lived, and that she finally settled on the teachings of a mere man, Emanuel Swedenborg, and said that she was perhaps “more indebted” to him “for the faith that turns my darkness to light” than for the Bible itself. And she didn’t even bother to mention Jesus in that quote or in its context! LOL.

    Case Dismissed, with Prejudice!

  45. Lisa Marie Duke
    Posted May 12, 2016 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Well Mr McGough,

    It seems as though you are quite settled in things, rather stiff-necked, possibly even sealed in the way you’ve chosen to be.
    Like I said, this life is a test and everyone is given a free will to choose as they so desire.
    At any rate, I will mention this one last thing.
    My earth Dad used to build computers for the government, my other earth brother is a computer programmer who served in the military also, and oh, I know a little about computers as well : )
    So for a while now, the government has been using computers for what is known as a “data-gathering” tool. They have these mainframes which are massive and collect all this data that is quickly retrieved by these highly trained computer technicians (it’s really easy, especially if you have access to the inside of the mainframe). Operation Earnest Voice is just one mega program the government uses and is run by actual military operatives. Oh yeah, and nothing is ever really “deleted” on a computer. So, anyone who spends any time on a computer is traceable these days (including me and Daniel). Also, people who set up web pages or FaceBook pages etc and display their name, pictures and such are easily traceable : )
    So, say for instance (and just for you) we’ll say this scinario is entirely hypothetical. If, for some “coincidence” two unknown people do show up and weird things start to happen (similar to what’s talked about in Revelation) and the government decides they need to investigate, no doubt they will easily identify them rather quickly. At which point they will then trace every contact that was ever made with these two questionable people, of course, to gain a better understanding of their possible whereabouts. Anyone in connection with them may be brought in or told to turn themselves in for questioning, of course, nothing to worry about I’m sure : ) the government would say it would be in your best interest to do so. Even during the time of Jesus, Paul was engaged in a type of this activity, but just sayin’. So, I guess for you Mr. McGough, there is nothing to worry about since you don’t believe in Almighty God. However, I will point out that you have studied The Bible quite extensively and no doubt you would know what you were seeing in this hypothetical event. So then, at that time, I would imagine, you would have one of those V8 moments (of epic proportion) and think wow, now what ever shall I do? However, I’m sure you will lose no sleep over this news and be quite comfortable to remain where you are : ) after all, surely this would be nothing more than a mere coincidence” : )
    Enjoy your life not believing in Almighty God Mr. McGough, but I guarantee you this, you will one day bow and you will declare that Jesus is Lord! Amen

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Marie Duke

  46. MIchaelFree
    Posted May 13, 2016 at 2:13 am | Permalink

    Why the threat of violence Lisa? You said “you would have one of those V8 moments (of epic proportion) and think wow, now what ever shall I do?”. You also said that Richard was “sealed”. Do you think God is going to do violence to non-violent people if God shows up on Earth? Have you ever thought that maybe good people don’t like your God because of the threat of violence for simple non-belief? If John the Baptist said “DO VIOLENCE TO NO ONE”, and the servant of Lord “DOES NO VIOLENCE”, how can either of these honorable people worship a violent God? How can you “do no violence” and yet praise a violent God? In divisive Christianity one cannot even truly love thy non-Christian neighbor as thyself, unto the death, having no greater love than to die for a friend.

  47. Posted May 13, 2016 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    It seems as though you are quite settled in things, rather stiff-necked, possibly even sealed in the way you’ve chosen to be.

    Don’t be absurd Lisa. There was nothing “stiff-necked” about my rejection of your false and unsupported assertions. You made claims and I refuted them. You tried to defend your claims and I refuted them again on every point. So what do you do now? You drop any pretense of logical argument and begin spewing lies about my character, as if I had failed to support my position with logic and facts and am rejecting truth out of blind stubbornness! Nothing could be more absurd, or pathetic. You have revealed your contempt for the truth. You have exposed how your delusional religion has corrupted your mind and your morals. No righteous person would accuse others of being “stiff-necked” and “possibly sealed” under God’s judgment for the “crime” of demanding evidence for highly dubious claims like yours.

    If you could defend your claims with logic and facts you would. We know this because you tried and failed. How could you also fail to see that attacking my character is not a valid response to the evidence I have presented? It is both a logical fallacy and a moral failing for you to attack my person in the way you have. Who do you think you are? God? You act more like Satan, the unjust accuser.

  48. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 13, 2016 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    Micheal your version of The Lord doesn’t exist ! Would God destroy people who don’t hurt anyone? I guess you are showing your lack of bible knowledge,and obviously your lack of Gods sovereignty . 1 Samuel chapter 15:3 and I quote, now go smite and utterly destroy all they have; do not spare them, but kill both man, woman,infant and suckling,ox and sheep camel and donkey.who are you too say what God can and can’t do? Does the clay say to the potter how it shall be made? Non belief? Again I quote : for ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes,that is,His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiwork) So men are without excuse (altogether without any defense or or justification ) Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him asGod or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and godless in their thinking ( with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning,stupid speculations) and their senseless minds were darkened. ( Apmlified Bible ) So regardless of how Mr McGough or you Michael want to put it the bible makes it clear you are not only stupid,foolish,with vain imagining you are senseless , to say the least . Micheal who made you to give council to Almighty God ? Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful and terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God [incurring His judgment and wrath].Not violence just wrath! It is a fearful and terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God [incurring His judgment and wrath].John 14:21 who does God say he loves ? He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.1 John 2:4 says, He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.we already established Mr McGough is not just a liar but a God hater, along with you and your doctrine of demons , but there is no truth in you.Love the way you put it isn’t love at all , love is telling the truth not a warped conception of God or his word according to what you conjure up for the sake of convenience . Mr McGough claims he’s refuted all Lisa’s claims , that’s hilarious how can you refute truth with a lie? Mr McGough you said it correctly , Your character ! And your character speaks volumes! Your character mocks God, scorns the truth, and devises new forms of evil ! There is only one truth , one way,and one Lord ! Anything contrary to that is a lie so it wasn’t hard to expose how ignorant and stupid you both are , according to your own confession. Romans 1:28-32 describes you both perfectly, And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or consider Him worth knowing [as their Creator], God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do things which are improper and repulsive, until they were filled (permeated, saturated) with every kind of unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice and mean-spiritedness. They are gossips [spreading rumors], slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors [of new forms] of evil, disobedient and disrespectful to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful [without pity]. Although they know God’s righteous decree and His judgment, that those who do such things deserve death, yet they not only do them, but they even [enthusiastically] approve and tolerate others who practice them.You can see perfectly , but you choose not too, you can hear perfectly , but choose not too , you will not stand before a Holy, Uncompromising Rightous , Sovereign , Lord and say , I didn’t know, His response will not change, depart from me you worker of iniquity , I don’t know you. Michael non believe is far from simple, it is a choice! It takes greater effort not to believe than it does to believe, and you say proof it ! Well Michael , Mr McGough is living proof ! Unbelief is sin , I bet Lots wife didn’t believe God would do what he said he would do , or how bout Noah, didn’t believe him ? but we know what happened ! Psalms 14:1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.I find in my final closing statement ,that time fails me to continue explaining to the ignorant, stupid, foolish calloused , doomed to disgrace and destruction those who wouldn’t know God if he was knocking you in the head . Enjoy your deception, eternity is a long time to be wrong!

    Daniel Duke

  49. MichaelFree
    Posted May 13, 2016 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    You said:

    “Mr McGough is not just a liar but a God hater, along with you and your doctrine of demons”

    I haven’t seen Richard lie once on this whole site and I haven’t either. Point out just one lie that Richard told Daniel, or one that I’ve told, if you can’t do that then apologize for calling Richard and me liars. And Richard doesn’t believe in a God so how can Richard hate God; you’re just telling more and more lies when you do this Daniel. And I do believe that there is a deity, but I don’t know it’s nature, but I will tell you this: if that deity hates me or my family for not bowing to that evil prick Jesus that you love so much or to your unlawful religion, then that deity doesn’t deserve my love and respect. You got a lot of nerve telling me I got “a doctrine of demons” when it is your religion that professes a literal doctrine of demons. Do you know how many people have murdered their children trying to exorcise “demons” from them Daniel; it’s so many it might be in the millions. I stand up for the children Daniel and I don’t propagate a doctrine of demons.

    You said:

    “Micheal your version of The Lord doesn’t exist”

    Nonsense. The Jesus character says the Golden Rule and to love thy neighbor as thyself. It is your God who does not adhere to the Golden Rule and who does not adhere to loving thy neighbor as thyself. My neighbors aren’t only Christians Daniel, and for this reason your God is a liar (tells you to love thy neighbor as thyself but doesn’t mean it) and uses the Golden Rule as candy to lure the children to the murderer.

    You said:

    “you are showing your lack of bible knowledge” and “1 Samuel chapter 15:3 and I quote, now go smite and utterly destroy all they have; do not spare them, but kill both man, woman,INFANT and suckling,ox and sheep camel and donkey.who are you too say what God can and can’t do?”:

    And here’s the hypocrisy and mental illness of your book Daniel: God is a documented baby murderer in the Bible and Jesus would make you think he’s above murdering babies as Jesus said “anyone who harms a child would be better off tying a millstone around their neck and drowning themself”.

    You said:

    “Micheal who made you to give council to Almighty God” and “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him”

    Jesus said to love one another and to love thy neighbor as thyself. My “one anothers” and my neighbors are not only Christians Daniel, so who is usurping the Golden Rule then Daniel, for surely it is not me. How will you ever love God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your soul, if you don’t also love thy neighbor as thyself? “He that saith, I know him (love one another), and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him”.

  50. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 6:04 am | Permalink

    Michael,

    First of all you said I should apologize , for what? agreeing with Gods word, and simply saying what it says! So, You believe God should apologize ? It won’t happen ! Nor will He excuse your ignorant stupidity for not knowing His word , like I asked earlier, who is the clay to say to the potter how it shall be made? Proverb16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
    Romans 9:21-23 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
    What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
    And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, you said your Christian neighbors ! How would you know ? You aren’t a Christian yourself . Furthermore how could you possibly judge something you know nothing about? Why is it you failed to answer one of my questions? but you are going to quote the Golden rule (so to speak ),but fail to see , Jesus fulfilled the old convenant , and added to that that you are to love your enemies .it is quite obvious your foolish heart is just as dark as Richards, Amen ! How is it you say Richard doesn’t know God but then say he hasn’t lied ? How can someone who professes to say they don’t know God give an opinion on whether they exist or not? In order to say you don’t believe didn’t you first have to believe ? Isn’t that like saying I don’t believe in a whatchamacallit? You aren’t very smart are you? You continue to quote loving your neighbor but fail to apply any other part of God’s word to your foolishness and stupidity so according to The Lord’s word you are worse off than a dimwit , coward, abhorrent fool ! You call God vile names ? Proverbs 9:10 the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom , obviously it is as I stated you just lack any kind of intelligence ! Proverbs 14:12 there is a way that seemith right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. You would be better off closing your mouth since you don’t know anything about God or his sovereignty, Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. In other words, it is better to shut your mouth and look stupid , than to open it and remove all doubt. Jesus also said out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so by your own mouth you fail to practice what you preach, therefore like Richard you also are a sealed abhorrent, vile and disgusting liar before Almighty God and He tells us not to cast our pearl before swine, lest they trample them underfoot. Consider yourself rebuked and I will pray for you.

    Daniel Duke

  51. Posted May 14, 2016 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Daniel,

    You said:

    “Mr McGough is not just a liar but a God hater, along with you and your doctrine of demons”

    I haven’t seen Richard lie once on this whole site and I haven’t either. Point out just one lie that Richard told Daniel, or one that I’ve told, if you can’t do that then apologize for calling Richard and me liars. And Richard doesn’t believe in a God so how can Richard hate God; you’re just telling more and more lies when you do this Daniel.

    Excellent challenge Michael. Unfortunately, it looks like it will fall on deaf ears. But still, I am glad Daniel is posting because he is a prime example of how fundamentalist religion tends to corrupt the hearts and minds of believers. People will see the wickedness of his dark and demented religion and so become free from its shackles.

    If there were an ounce of truth in his accusations, he could quote the words you and I have written that are “lies.” But he can’t do that because he is the liar and false accuser. I give him space here to freely post anything he wants and all he does is spew lies, hatred, and slander. The one thing he won’t dare try is to post evidence justifying his false accusations. It is horrifying to behold the height of arrogance and depth of hatred that has possessed his soul.

    He now has three choices.

    1) He can provide a few quotes and show how they are “lies.”

    2) He can admit his error and apologize.

    3) He can stand convicted as an unrepentant liar.

    It’s his choice. Unfortunately, I think he has already chosen number 3.

  52. Posted May 14, 2016 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    First of all you said I should apologize , for what? agreeing with Gods word, and simply saying what it says!

    For what? For lying about Michael and me. Michael made this perfectly clear. How can you pretend you don’t understand? You need to quote a few representative samples of the “lies” that Michael and I have written. If you can’t do that, you are admitting that you cannot or will not try to justify your words, and so you will have revealed your accusations to be slander. You will have revealed the utter corruption of your heart and mind. No good and honest person repeatedly spews slander against others in public like you have without presenting evidence. So that’s what you need to do. You have three choices:

    1) You can provide a few quotes and show how they are “lies.”

    2) You can admit your error and apologize.

    3) You can stand convicted as an unrepentant liar.

    Nor will He excuse your ignorant stupidity for not knowing His word

    Your words are deeply confused. If Michael doesn’t know “His Word” because he is “ignorant” and “stupid” then it’s not his fault! Or what, do you punish a two year old child for failing to read and understand the law? You need to drop the religious ravings and engage your mind. You are spewing madness.

    like I asked earlier, who is the clay to say to the potter how it shall be made? Proverb16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

    That is a perfect example of how your religion tends to corrupt the minds and morals of believers. You have been programmed to turn off your mind, not ask questions, and merely submit to the dogma like a good little cult member. There is deep irony in Paul’s quotation of that passage about the pot and the potter because he was admitting that he could not answer the question about why God would behave in such abominable and irrational ways. No rational person would create “wicked pots” and then punish them for eternity for being wicked! That’s just nuts! Your doctrine is quite literally insane.

    Jesus fulfilled the old convenant , and added to that that you are to love your enemies .it is quite obvious your foolish heart is just as dark as Richards, Amen !

    Well, there’s a command you are fulfilling to perfection. NOT!

    How is it you say Richard doesn’t know God but then say he hasn’t lied ? How can someone who professes to say they don’t know God give an opinion on whether they exist or not? In order to say you don’t believe didn’t you first have to believe ? Isn’t that like saying I don’t believe in a whatchamacallit? You aren’t very smart are you?

    So you are saying that you can’t deny the existence of Allah without presuming that Allah actually exists? Are you insane?

    It is not a lie to speak the truth. I do not believe Yahweh actually exists, and my opinion is based on a lot of evidence and good reasons. Your accusation that I am a “liar” merely because I deny the existence of Allah, Yahweh, and Zeus could not be more absurd.

    You continue to quote loving your neighbor but fail to apply any other part of God’s word to your foolishness and stupidity so according to The Lord’s word you are worse off than a dimwit , coward, abhorrent fool !

    Colossians 4:5-6 Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time. 6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

    1 Peter 3:8-9 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: 9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

    Your love for the Lord and His Word is really shining bright today.

    You really know how to convince people that you love God and the Bible. NOT!

    Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. In other words, it is better to shut your mouth and look stupid , than to open it and remove all doubt.

    If ever there were a verse you should have obeyed! LOL

    Jesus also said out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so by your own mouth you fail to practice what you preach, therefore like Richard you also are a sealed abhorrent, vile and disgusting liar before Almighty God and He tells us not to cast our pearl before swine, lest they trample them underfoot. Consider yourself rebuked and I will pray for you.

    You bear witness of yourself, not Michael or me. You spew out nothing but slander, false accusations, and hateful bile. You rave in a frenzy of religiously induced delusion. You exalt yourself above all and sit in the place of God, declaring that he has “sealed” us under his judgment.

    I’m so glad you are here to display the fruit of your religion! Disgusting as it is, it serves a great purpose and will doubtless help free many from the dark dank dungeon that is fundamentalist religion.

  53. MichaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    A God whose deeds are good and evil does not match up with what Jesus says about “no one is good but God alone”. According to you “human beings are good and evil just like God is good and evil”.

    The Bible is overflowing with hypocrisy and contradiction.

  54. MichaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    I’m getting tired of being called stupid and a fool.

    You said:

    “In order to say you don’t believe didn’t you first have to believe ?”

    This is the most ridiculous statement Daniel, it it completely void of logic and reality.

    Lots of people believe lots of things that they cannot prove. One just needs to be told someone’s unprovable belief in order to say they don’t believe it.

    Do you ever test out your words to see if they are true?

  55. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    Mr. “Free” and Mr. McGough,

    Almighty God, The Awesome Author and Creator, The Great I Am, my Savior, my Lord and my Best Friend Forever wanted me to ask the two of you (he refers to you as the dastardly duo) a simple question.

    “In the beginning” ?

    Why does Almighty God’s Word and evolution both say that we even had a beginning?

    If evolution wanted to be supreme, instead of saying everything in the beginning came from one cell which then evolved into all plant life and animal life and man we see today, why wouldn’t evolution just say everything appeared all at once. After all, we see all the very same cells, animal life and plant life today that evolutionists say we evolved from ?? Minus the dinosaurs which died somehow (evolution doesn’t even know).
    Why don’t evolutionists just say man had no beginning and just appeared as he is? How do evolutionists know without a shadow of a doubt that some foreign alien culture didn’t bring everything to this planet and drop it off?
    Honestly, you see the same cells, plant and animal life today that everything somehow evolved from??

    Do evolutionists not see these same distinctive cells, plants, and animals they say we evolved from? If you dare say each evolved from mutations, I too will laugh out loud. Everyone knows each species rejects members with defects. Just ask the eagle how she chooses her mate. So evolution says mutations occurred and they were the stronger? Maybe you also should adapt the green alien theory Mr. McGough.
    I guess if you want to believe your brother is a chimp, you evolved from a mutation or even came from a line of bacteria, you may, but you really should see how your own perception of you is so self-degrading! : )

    Why also has nothing “evolved” from death itself? Why can’t science and doctors stop cancer. Why are there more illnesses, super flus, more varieties of disease than ever before?

    So evolutionists say the earth is billions of year old, but somehow it had a beginning also? Sounds like copyright infringement to me.

    Oh and Mr. Free believes in a “supreme being”, ‘ya mean like some sort of big green alien?
    A supreme “being” that you’ve never seen, but is described as you describe him? And so “supreme” that he will surely do all YOU tell him to do? Do you also have a big pink bunny friend who brings you rainbow soup?

    And then there’s Mr. McGough who has the audacity to suggest that Apostle Paul would question Almighty God and His Sovereignty by using a passage of scripture Solomon wrote. The same Solomon who is known to be the richest and wisest man who ever lived. There are historical records outside of the Bible proving the existence of King David, Solomon, the Herod’s, Pilate, Peter, Paul, John (just to name a few) and the Apostles willingly were tortured and killed (except John who was boiled in oil but nothing happened) for the sake of Who they knew and witnessed as Almighty God in flesh and Who gave them eternal life.

    And yet, Mr. “Free” and Mr. McGough expect ALL people to believe what they say, and if you don’t, they will say you are delusional and need truth!!!

    So, you both have made yourselves legends in your own minds. Obvious. And boy do you both tout your self-assured intelligence and rightness based on nothing but what you think and believe based on extensive evidence that starts with a “Big Bang” THEORY. Oh, ok.

    Actually what you each hear is not someone agreeing with you, it is only an echo which is easily explained by the absence of brain matter in your cranial cavity.

    So please answer my question as to why evolution had a beginning, when we still see the same cells, plants, and animals today that we somehow evolved from?

    The Lord says I am fearfully and wonderfully made by Him!
    And I believe Him! There’s just no good reason not to!

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Duke

  56. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    “Lots of people believe lots of things that they cannot prove. One just needs to be told someone’s unprovable belief in order to say they don’t believe”

    Oh Mr. McGough,
    I do believe you should “enlighten” Mr. “Free”
    Please tell him how great his testimony is to your cause!!!

    Daniel and I are both laughing now!

    This is great fun!

    Sincerely,

    Daniel and Lisa Duke

  57. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    Michael,

    Thank you for proving me right : ) again.

    Daniel Duke

  58. MichaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Lisa and Daniel, the truth-deprived duo,

    I’m agnostic as to whether or not evolution is true or whether or not something else occurred. As far as believing in a “supreme being”, I haven’t said that, I said that I believe that a “supernatural being” exists.

    I’ve proven to you that coincidences exist in life when I said that if someone has superstitious beliefs and things happen in life that seem to coincide with those superstitious beliefs, then it is just a coincidence.

    I’ve proven to Daniel that his statement “In order to say you don’t believe didn’t you first have to believe ?” is nonsense when I said lots of people believe lots of things that they cannot prove, and that one just needs to be told someone’s unprovable belief in order to say they don’t believe.

    And neither of you are even trying to quote a lie that either Richard or I have said here on this site, because you won’t find any. You and Daniel “laughing” is kind of odd, as calling me a liar and not producing evidence is not a laughing matter.

  59. MichaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    You said:

    “How is it you say Richard doesn’t know God but then say he hasn’t lied ?”

    If Richard saw God and knew that God actually existed, and thus it wasn’t just a belief, but then Richard turned around and said that God did not exist, then he would have lied. I don’t think you know what truth is so your ability to judge lies is faulty.

    You said:

    “How can someone who professes to say they don’t know God give an opinion on whether they exist or not?”

    There would be no opinion about whether or not God existed if God actually showed itself as God’s existence would then be a fact. Since God’s existence is a belief then everyone is free to believe or not to believe however they wish. When an atheist says there is no God they are professing a belief, but when an agnostic says they don’t know if God exists or not they are expressing a fact.

  60. MichaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    Lisa,

    I don’t believe that God talks to you. If you wanted to prove to me that God talks to you then you would tell me something about me that only God would know. Want to give it a go? Ask your God to tell you something about me that only God would know. I just hid my key, ask him where I put it, and ask him what it says. I’m waiting. Until you do that, or until you stop bowing to a violent God, which is another option, I won’t believe you.

  61. MichaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Lisa,

    Your God is a liar if he said that me or Richard are dastardly. What a joke. We have not used tricks to hurt people, neither have we been cruel (truth hurts sometimes though), we have definitely not been cowardly, and we have neither been underhanded nor treacherous. Dastardly is actually a good description of God’s attributes in the Bible. All of the contradictions in the Bible are tricks and they do hurt people., they are very cruel, they are cowardly, they are underhanded, and they are treacherous.

    Take care.

  62. MichaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Lisa,

    I should point out, my key is not an actual key, it does not unlock actual doors, but rather it is a metaphorical key. It is a piece of paper with writing on it that I hid somewhere in my house.

  63. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    Mr “Free”,

    Your story keeps changing and evolving, whereas, Daniel’s and mine stay the same. That’s the beauty of absolute truth!
    The Pharaisee leaders did the same to my Brother Jesus.

    As far as your key, The Lord said , “You know where your key is, it is not lost, you are Michael”.

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Duke

  64. MIchaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    Lisa,

    You said:

    “Your story keeps changing and evolving, whereas, Daniel’s and mine stay the same. That’s the beauty of absolute truth!”

    What story is that Lisa, please be specific or else I can’t answer the charge.

    You said:

    “As far as your key, The Lord said , “You know where your key is, it is not lost, you are Michael”.

    You sound like a two-bit fortune teller. I have a piece of paper with words on it. No one saw what I wrote on the paper, so only me and God would know. Either tell me what it says or else admit that God doesn’t speak to you, but rather you are just speaking for yourself. If you tell me what it says on it I would be shocked and amazed instead of telling you that you sound like a two-bit fortune teller. What you said is completely vague and non-specific, which is the primary tool of the fortune teller and the so-called “psychic”. I’m not impressed Lisa.

    Try again?

  65. MIchaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    Lisa,

    So I guess we’ve now debunked:

    1. Coincidences not existing.
    2. Not believing in a belief being a form of lying.
    3. Lisa talks to God.

  66. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    Michael you are so so stupid and illiterate you are actually funny :) and yes a lying fool also ! You see Michael you and Richard have not said anything based on fact ! I on the other hand have freely given you Gods word which trumps anything you and Richard can conjure up . I told you the truth , what makes you think you have all the answers based on what ? Let me guess your GED score ! Michael you keep accusing your CREATOR whom you’ve never known,cared to know, or have a clue about . You whine because I say you are a fool and stupid , but you continue to prove it ! Case and point ( God talks to me also ,and he did tell me something about you,that Richard doesn’t know , you are stupid and a fool and I even proved it to you with ,His Word .So because you’re agnostic does that give you some special permission to call Jesus a prick or say all the vile garbage you spew what happened to loving your enemies? Jesus was the one you quoted by saying we are to love our neighbors as ourselves? If I asked you if you know Donald trump, you would say yes, but would he say he knows you? So why would God reveal himself to someone like you? God hung his Son on a cross so you could have free will talk to smack, and hate him, your equally as stupid and a fool like your buddy .Richard says the same bumbling babbling garbage he says,I have not given proof ? That is the talk of an empty headed fool he just can’t read past all the vile hate that permeates his heart. You say Like your fool friend , God hasn’t revealed himself ? You see I gave you the scripture reference that clearly states that is a lie ! So on top of being empty headed stupid God hating fools you are liars! You again failed to answer one of my questions,but you are going to lecture me? So Michael do you believe in whatchamacallits ? Please answer I want another great laugh! Is that the same as believing in stuff you can’t prove ? I think your education came from a jughead comic book . Michael have you ever once honestly tried to understand really ? Have you ever read the bible and asked The Lord to give you understanding? Have you ever even asked God to show you His Truth? Michael let me assure you The Lord will do exactly as he says he will do . Michael you may not like what I have said, but have you even stopped and asked yourself why I even say anything? Michael you have no idea who I am or anything else about me,and honestly I don’t care . Michael would you like me if I lied to you? Would you like me if I cheated you? Would you like me if I told you the truth? Would you like me if I did love my enemies and my neighbors? The point I’m trying to make is , how do you tell a deceived person they’re deceived? Or a fool they’re a fool? Michael I am the least in the estimation of this world , so weather I tell you a lie or the truth what do I gain? I guess the point is I can’t think of a good enough reason to lie to you or anyone else for that matter. So it’s much easier to just tell you what I know:) you see Michael being least allows me to be me . I am not liked , I’m not good looking, I’m not rich, I’m least and being least is good for me :) you probably think now I’m as dumb as you but on the contrary you really must loose your life to gain it:)

  67. MIchaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    Lisa,

    I apologize for saying that God doesn’t talk to you. This thing is none of my business so I should not have said that you talking to God has been debunked. I don’t want to be dishonorable.

    I will tell you this though, if God wanted me to believe that he speaks to you, then you would tell me what it says on the paper that I wrote.

  68. MIchaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Daniel: “Blah blah blah”

  69. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    Mr. “Free”,
    My Brother The Lord Jesus called the wicked Pharaisee leaders snakes, a brood of vipers, seed of satan, and yes, He called you both “dastardly”.

    Lying is a sin, and sin is what killed my Brother.

    You believe you can make your own version of a god or supreme being or supernatural being, whatever you decide? That is called an idol, whether you realize it or not The Lord God Almighty will have no other of these phony idols before Him! You don’t like the fact that The Lord told King Saul to kill the Amalekites and their children because no good could come from them. They were as wicked as rats! They killed and pillaged innocent people, they killed children who were innocent, and taught their children the same. They destroyed everyone around them because they were filled with murder and had no appreciation for life. None of their children rejected this practice–they too were children of satan! The Lord wanted it to stop their killing once and for all. So you would blame Almighty God for that?

    If I told you to not drive any farther on the road because there was an earthquake and the road was gone and a now thousand foot drop-off was there that you didn’t see, you would thank me for saving your life by telling you.

    You think The Lord can’t speak to a person? Or through a person? Well, I suppose you wouldn’t since you don’t really believe in The Almighty God. And no, his name is not “allah” (allah is the ‘god’ of the moon).

    The I AM is not ‘allah’ or zeus or any other man-made idol. Muhammad wanted to be known as a prophet–same as Joseph Smith–they wanted power and money and to do this they needed to control people.

    We are trying to warn you. You called The Lord names and spoke against Him. You don’t know Him personally, He has never spoken to you, therefore you believe He has never spoken to me or Daniel. Well, Almighty God can speak to you if you have the right heart and want Him to.

    You believe Mr. McGough, that’s fine, you can do as you want. Mr. McGough sought Almighty God’s power and wanted Almighty God to give him His power and God won’t allow it because it is exactly what satan wanted–God’s power.

    You don’t understand God and have so many versions to think about and don’t know what is true and what is a lie, so you lash out at everything you don’t understand and say it should be how you believe.

    The reason Daniel calls you a liar is because you are. The Lord God put it in each heart to know Him. This life is a test, you are born here having no memory of Almighty God and He put it into you to seek Him for the truth about Him. You want things your way, that’s fine, have it your way, enjoy your way, hate Almighty God all you want, call yourself Agnostic, call yourself a hamburger, who cares what you do, say or believe?

    Daniel and I are supposed to just sit back and call our Brother The Lord Jesus vile names and then you expect us to kiss your butt with kindness?? You attack The Lord Jesus who was innocent and paid for your filthy disgusting sin and we are supposed to say, well it’s ok Michael, do whatever you want.

    You don’t think Almighty God has the absolute right to judge you for your sin He paid for? You are “Free” to do as you please, but if you are wrong, you won’t have a second chance to do this all over again. This life is no life, this is a test, you are taking it whether you like it or not. That is the truth. Almighty God will not choose for you, you have a free will to do as you please. But I promise you this, you will stand before The Lord Jesus and give Him an account of the life He died to give you.

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Duke

    Ps. Michael, Mr McGough tried to be a “Christian” for ten years. Daniel and I don’t try to be anything but our goal is to point people in the right direction where they will be safe. We have 79 years of service between us, and we would die for our Lord and savior because He paid the cost so we could live.
    There is no other Jesus, there is only One.

  70. MichaelFree
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    Lisa: “Blah, blah, blah”

  71. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 2:55 am | Permalink

    Lisa and Daniel,

    You are free to believe whatever religious beliefs that you want to believe in life. You can even believe that your God is torturing my dead agnostic/atheist father’s soul in hell right now because he wasn’t a Christian. Is this a God I respect, a torture God who is said to be torturing my own father right now? No. No respect at all. I hate your God with all my heart, with all my soul, and with all my mind. Should a Jew disavow all his relatives and ancestors and believe in a God that is torturing their souls in hell, all for being Jewish and for not being Christian? No. What kind of person would bow to a murderer? I’m my fathers son. I love my father. I’d choose eternal death over living in heaven with such a low-life as your God. But death is too humane for your God, no, he’s having none of that mercy, he’d rather keep someone alive in order to torture them forever. Your religion is like a pig with lipstick on, it’s pretty on the outside, but it’s a filthy pig on the inside.

  72. Posted May 15, 2016 at 6:04 am | Permalink

    Lisa,

    Your God is a liar if he said that me or Richard are dastardly. What a joke. We have not used tricks to hurt people, neither have we been cruel (truth hurts sometimes though), we have definitely not been cowardly, and we have neither been underhanded nor treacherous.

    That’s right Michael. Lisa and Daniel are textbook examples of how fundamentalist religion tends to corrupt the minds and morals of believers. The freely spew slander and lies and refuse absolutely to back up anything they say with evidence. They really crazy thing is that they apparently know they are liars but don’t give a damn. I refuted every bit of evidence Lisa presented in her vain effort to hijack Helen Keller (a follow of the occult teacher Swedenborg) as “proof” of her delusional god. And what did she do? She refused to answer and began spewing more slander and lies! The corruption of her soul is as deep as the ocean.

    There’s an old saying that you can tell when someone has made up their own god because it shares their personal prejudices, likes and dislikes, ignorance and vanity. This is particularly obvious with Lisa who, like a vain, self-absorbed teenager, imagines her god to be her “BFF” who insults her “enemies” with adolescent cliches like “dastardly duo.” If ever there has been a proof of the delusional nature of religious belief, she is it.

    The real irony, of course, is that she claims her delusions are the “Truth” even as she is forced to descend to lies and deception to “prove” it! Nothing could be more pathetic. If anyone in this discussion deserves to be described as a “dastardly duo” it would be Lisa and Daniel. They project their perversion on others, and justify themselves by saying it is really “God” who is judging others. What a load of freaking hypocrisy!

    It is amazing to behold the depth of corruption wrought by their religion.

  73. Posted May 15, 2016 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    Michael you are so so stupid and illiterate you are actually funny :) and yes a lying fool also !

    Ha! You describe yourself Daniel. And you reveal how you despise the teachings of Christ. You spit on the Bible when you spew out your slander and lies. Here is a whole passage devoted to perverse hypocrites like you. You claim to be a follower of Christ even as you spit on his commands:

    Luke 6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye. 43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. 46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

    You exemplify everything in that passage Daniel. You fulfill it to the very letter. Your posts overflow with every kind of vile perversion. Where do you do think your words come from? Your own “god” has told you but you ignore him. If I were to honestly describe the condition of your heart and mind, judging only by what you have written, I would have to say that you are one of the most arrogant, ignorant, idiotic, corrupt, perverse, wicked, lying, sick, twisted, cult members that I have ever encountered. And that’s saying a lot, given how many deluded religious freaks have been drawn to this forum to “rebuke” me for not submitting to their cult dogmas.

    You see Michael you and Richard have not said anything based on fact ! I on the other hand have freely given you Gods word which trumps anything you and Richard can conjure up . I told you the truth , what makes you think you have all the answers based on what ?

    Ha! More lies. I have presented a lot of solid evidence that you have simply ignored. Again, you reveal nothing but the corruption of your own heart and mind.

    Michael you keep accusing your CREATOR whom you’ve never known,cared to know, or have a clue about .

    There is no reason to believe the demon-god of your cult is the CREATOR. On the contrary, given the effect your belief has had on your mind and your morals, everyone reading this thread can be certain that your “god” is nothing but a figment of your deranged and perverted imagination.

    You whine because I say you are a fool and stupid , but you continue to prove it !

    Again, you describe yourself Daniel. And you keep proving it over and over and over again.

  74. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    Well Mr. “Free”,

    “I hate your God with all my heart, with all my soul, and with all my mind”

    So, my Brother Daniel didn’t lie, he said it right, and by your own admission, you are an Almighty God, The Great I AM hater. You hate. You lie. And you rob Almighty God of the love, worship, adoration, and praise He so rightly deserves.

    If given the opportunity, you would want to kill our Wonderful Father in Heaven.

    That is what satan did.

    And you are the same, your father is satan, the abomination of desolation.

    So my Brother Jesus calling you “dastardly” is also correct.

    Dastardly:
    wicked and cruel.
    “pirates and their dastardly deeds”
    synonyms: wicked, evil, heinous, villainous, diabolical, fiendish, barbarous, cruel, black, dark, rotten, vile, monstrous, abominable, despicable, degenerate, sordid; bad, base, mean, low, cowardly, dishonorable, dishonest, unscrupulous, unprincipled, dirty, shady, sleazy, crooked; beastly

    The Lord does speak to Daniel and me.
    And yes, even the demons must tell the truth!

    The Lord’s Word speaks13 times of “there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth”.

    The Lord said you, Mr. “Free” are the weeping and wailing type, and Mr. McGough is the grinding of the teeth type.

    The Lord takes no pleasure in destroying the wicked, and neither do we.

    You both signed the contract, you both agreed to the test. Whether The Lord decides to strike your name (blot it out) from the record is His to decide. Right now, it doesn’t look that promising for you or Mr McGough.

    When the day comes, and everything is revealed, you will you will know and you will remember.

    Sincerely,

    Daniel and Lisa Duke

  75. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    My Brother The Lord Jesus called the wicked Pharaisee leaders snakes, a brood of vipers, seed of satan, and yes, He called you both “dastardly”.

    If that were true, you could provide a few quotes that would show we are “dastardly.” If you fail to do this, you will be admitting that your “god” is a liar, just like you.

    So jump to it. Show us what it is that makes us so “dastardly.”

    Lying is a sin, and sin is what killed my Brother.

    You have spewed countless lies on this forum, and I can prove it. Case in point: You made the following claims about Helen Keller (who was actually a life-long follower of occult teacher Swedenborg):

    Helen Keller gave her own (eye witness) testimony about The Lord Jesus, this testimony was heard by witnesses and recorded. The evidence is beyond even a shadow of any doubt given the fact doctors confirmed her complete blindness and deftness. Her behavior in her prior state of “unreachableness” by anyone around her was also recorded. She later gave testimony that The Lord had already reached her in her helplessness, fear, and confusion and comforted her. I have never heard anyone but you, Mr. McGough, try to discredit her testimony, or even question it for that matter.

    I challenged you to provide evidence, and you totally failed. I showed you failed, so you dropped that topic and began spewing false accusations and slander. So now you have three choices:

    1) Answer my refutations and show that your claims are true.

    2) Admit you cannot answer and apologize for lying.

    3) Stand publicly convicted as an unrepentant liar who spits on the truth.

    It’s your choice! Choose well.

  76. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:02 am | Permalink

    Mr McGough,

    You didn’t answer my question about evolution having a beginning also ?!?

    The same cells, plants, animals we supposedly “evolved” from are still all around us!!!

    You can’t answer the question because you would have to BOW before Almighty God, and your stiff-neck doesn’t move!

    Yes, oh yes, you are definately the gnashing of the teeth type!

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Duke

  77. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    You believe Mr. McGough, that’s fine, you can do as you want. Mr. McGough sought Almighty God’s power and wanted Almighty God to give him His power and God won’t allow it because it is exactly what satan wanted–God’s power.

    What sort of perverse parasite has possessed your brain Lisa? What makes you think you can make up lies and spew them out without consequence? I never “sought God’s power” and never wanted him to give it to me. You have no evidence of any kind supporting your ludicrous slander. Your mind is utterly perverted. You think your own deranged imagination is the voice of god! Wow.

  78. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    You didn’t answer my question about evolution having a beginning also ?!?

    First things first. I was waiting for you to answer my refutation of your claims about Helen Keller. I proved you wrong so you changed the topic to evolution. Your tactics are as transparent as they are perverse. If you can’t admit a simple truth about Helen Keller, what chance is there that I could get you to admit truth about an advanced science like evolution, especially given your manifest ignorance of the topic?

  79. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    You can’t answer the question because you would have to BOW before Almighty God, and your stiff-neck doesn’t move!

    Wow, more absurdity from the Queen of the Mentally Damned.

  80. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    Matthew 12:
    50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother!

    Mark 3:
    11 And the spirits, the unclean ones, [c]as often as they might see Him, fell down before Him and kept screaming out, You are the Son of God!
    12 And He charged them strictly and severely under penalty again and again that they should not make Him known.

    Mark 3:
    33 And He replied, Who are My mother and My brothers?
    34 And looking around on those who sat in a circle about Him, He said, See! Here are My mother and My brothers;
    35 For whoever does the things God wills is My brother and sister and mother!

  81. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    The same cells, plants, animals we supposedly “evolved” from are still all around us!!!

    How do you know they are the “same”?

  82. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    I always liked this saying

    I am rubber and you are glue…..

  83. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    Well Mr. “Free”,

    “I hate your God with all my heart, with all my soul, and with all my mind”

    So, my Brother Daniel didn’t lie, he said it right, and by your own admission, you are an Almighty God, The Great I AM hater. You hate. You lie. And you rob Almighty God of the love, worship, adoration, and praise He so rightly deserves.

    Not true. Michael said he hates “your God” not the true God. Your god is a product of your perverted imagination.

    Michael was perfectly clear in his post. He rejects YOUR perverse version of God. Not the true God (if such exists). You deliberately twisted what he meant, and so confirm again that your mind is perverted and that you despise truth.

  84. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    They are the same,

    You can identify them

    Unless your brother the chimp is a different chimp

    Was it a chump before a chimp and then it became you?

  85. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    I always liked this saying

    I am rubber and you are glue…..

    You answer like a child. You continue to prove you cannot justify your words. I refuted your claims about Helen Keller (who was a devoted follower of occult teacher Emanuel Swedenborg). You changed the topic because you know you cannot answer. And so you stand convicted as an unrepentant liar who spits on truth.

  86. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    They are the same,

    You can identify them

    How can you identify them? Do you have a time machine? You said “The same cells, plants, animals we supposedly “evolved” from are still all around us!!!” How do you know that they are the same as the ones that lived long ago?

  87. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    You can’t answer my simple question with a definitive answer
    And you call me a child?

  88. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    Matthew 12:
    50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother!

    Then Daniel must not really be your brother, because he spits on the teaching of Christ when he spews out the vile corruption that fills his heart.

  89. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    Monkey are different today?
    Monkeys of yesterday are different?
    Is a monkey not a monkey?

    Was it an alien first ?

  90. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    Is a cell not a cell?

    Let see, there is the mitochondria, the cytoplasm, and the cell wall…..

    Do you have different cells Mr McGough?

  91. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    You can’t answer my simple question with a definitive answer
    And you call me a child?

    Who refuses to answer? I refuted your claims about Helen Keller and you refused to answer and then changed the subject to evolution.

    And as for your question – you are the one who refuses to answer. I already answered it by exposing the fact that you don’t have a clue what you are babbling about. You said “The same cells, plants, animals we supposedly “evolved” from are still all around us!!!” So I asked how you know that they are the same. You said you could tell by looking. So I exposed that error and asked if you had a time machine, so now you refuse to answer! You can’t answer because you don’t know anything about the science of evolution or biology or physics or geology. Your mind has been corrupted by your ignorant gullible belief in a book scribbled by prescientific primitive men who knew nothing of how the world really works.

  92. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    Plants make food from a process called photosynthesis.

    Were plants first animals and they decided to become vegan and eat the sun’s rays instead?

  93. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    Plants make food from a process called photosynthesis.

    Were plants first animals and they decided to become vegan and eat the sun’s rays instead?

    Ha! So you want to changed the topic AGAIN because you know you cannot answer my simple question?

    You said “The same cells, plants, animals we supposedly “evolved” from are still all around us!!!” So I asked how you know that they are the same. You said you could tell by looking. So I exposed that error and asked if you had a time machine, so now you refuse to answer! You can’t answer because you don’t know anything about the science of evolution or biology or physics or geology. Your mind has been corrupted by your ignorant gullible belief in a book scribbled by prescientific primitive men who knew nothing of how the world really works.

  94. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    You are kind of stuck back at Helen Keller for some reason,

    Did you not take basic science? As a child?

  95. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    Is a cell not a cell?

    Let see, there is the mitochondria, the cytoplasm, and the cell wall…..

    Do you have different cells Mr McGough?

    And so you reveal your utter ignorance of basic biology.

    Not all cells are the same. They have evolved over billions of years. For the first billion years of life, there was nothing but prokaryotes that had no nucleus and no mitochondria. The eukaryotes evolved. It took another billion years or so for multi-cellular organisms to evolve.

    Your ignorance is as deep as the ocean, your arrogance as high as the sky.

  96. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    Am I to believe you Mr MrGough and deny all I see?

    Maybe, maybe, maybe…..

    Why should I believe your “maybe” in the face of truth that I do see?

  97. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    Am I to believe you Mr MrGough and deny all I see?

    Maybe, maybe, maybe…..

    Why should I believe your “maybe” in the face of truth that I do see?

    If what you think you “see” were real, you would have no trouble establishing it as fact.

    As it stands, all your beliefs are based on nothing but blind superstition and a deranged imagination. You can’t prove anything you claim, and when I prove you wrong (as with Helen Keller) you dodge by changing the subject.

    Your tactics are as transparent as they are perverse … and pathetic.

  98. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    Mr Mcgough

    You have no idea what what Gods word means,your vile hate filled spewing is just that, you use Gods word (which you profess not to believe in) but really don’t understand at all, since your heart is darkened, You spew out lies , your father is a liar and been one from the beginning:) and now you’re angry that you’ve been exposed! Funny but you are as Lisa said, and I said, you’re a whiner too. What was it Richard that turned you from God ? Did he dislike your homosexual tendencies? Was it your lying and cheating? Was it the worship of your flesh that you didn’t want to give up? Or was it all of the above? You see Richard you can’t have two masters , you will love one and hate the other! You chose yourself to be master and now that you are a reprobate without excuse,you can’t live without doing evil . I know who you are and I know who your father is,so as the Lord says, get thee behind me Satan you have no part in me ! I pray you reap every and and all things associated with your vile slanderous words , Satan takes great delight in you Richard,so keep it up I have full understanding, you like him will bow one way or the other !
    You can continue in your self distruction, but know it it is your doing , not TheLords . You speak as a fool you act like a fool and you are the epitome of a God hater , you gave a century of trying to The Lord? You gave nothing! You acted like a spoiled baby , wanting his own way and when that didnt work you resorted to hate, good job! You are the most miserable of men, enjoy Your life:)

  99. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    So, what did the first organic cell eat?

    An organic cell can’t divide without some food first (organic food)
    So did it eat chemicals?

    Do you eat chemicals Mr McGough?

    Everyone is switching to organic these days, maybe you should also because the poison you are feeding yourself is killing you !!!

  100. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    A monkey is a “superstition” ??

    How so?
    A cell is a superstition also? A cell by the way is as complicated as the universe!

    Cells became more complicated?

    Just admit it Mr McGough, you didn’t do very well in Biology.

  101. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Maybe you didn’t take inorganic chemistry either.
    Did you not like Science Mr McGough?

    I loved Science, I already told you that.
    You will find it very hard to refute my education.

    Maybe you should go back to grade school and try to learn something of value.

  102. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Science is very specific and does not allo for fantasy.

    Gravity
    Gravity
    Gravity

    Is Gravity a superstition?

  103. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    Whoops, typo

    Real Science does NOT allow FANTASY!

  104. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    Mr Magoo

    Stupid is as stupid does , you win the prize! Wow you can’t answer you resort to whining,posting how stupid you really are,and then talk in circles just like the vicious circle you run in,Humorous, it’s like talking to a fool, all your ramblings prove nothing:) how is it you cause of not answering questions but you fail to answer any yourself? Oh yes , you are professing to be wise and have made yourself stupid! Ramble on Mr Magoo no one cares:)

  105. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    I had that understanding in 4th grade.

    Real science is explained by truth.

    Or why these steps

    1. Hypothesis
    2. Testing
    3. Theory
    4. More testing
    5. Irrefutable EVIDENCE is gathered
    6. Irrefutable EVIDENCE conclusive
    7. Scientific LAW is then established!

  106. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Mr Mcgough

    You have no idea what what Gods word means,your vile hate filled spewing is just that, you use Gods word (which you profess not to believe in) but really don’t understand at all, since your heart is darkened, You spew out lies , your father is a liar and been one from the beginning:) and now you’re angry that you’ve been exposed!

    Get a mirror Daniel. You describe yourself. You spit on the teachings of Christ when you spew out your vile accusations. You reveal nothing but the utter corruption of your heart, exactly as Christ declared in Luke 6.

    Funny but you are as Lisa said, and I said, you’re a whiner too. What was it Richard that turned you from God ? Did he dislike your homosexual tendencies?

    LOL! You repressed self-hating homosexuals are so predictable. You always project your desires on others. I’ve been happily married to a wonderful woman for many years. But even if I were gay, it wouldn’t justify any of your ludicrous assertions. I rejected the Bible god because he does not exist. This is easy to prove, because the Bible says God is kind, just, and wise but then says he does things that are cruel, unjust, and irrational. So I have a solid logical proof of my position that you cannot refute.

    Was it your lying and cheating?

    Project much? LOL

    Was it the worship of your flesh that you didn’t want to give up?

    Don’t be absurd. What fool would “worship flesh”?

    Or was it all of the above?

    It was none of the things you suggested. It was because the Bible god is a demonstrable absurdity and so we can prove he does not actually exist. It’s very simple logic that you apparently know you cannot refuted.

    You see Richard you can’t have two masters , you will love one and hate the other! You chose yourself to be master and now that you are a reprobate without excuse,you can’t live without doing evil . I know who you are and I know who your father is,so as the Lord says, get thee behind me Satan you have no part in me ! I pray you reap every and and all things associated with your vile slanderous words , Satan takes great delight in you Richard,so keep it up I have full understanding, you like him will bow one way or the other !

    Babble on dude! You have submitted yourself to the cruelest master – your own ignorant imagination filled with putrid hatred for anyone who does not submit to your ludicrous dogmas. How are you any different than the jihadis of ISIS? You both delight in the eternal pain and suffering of your perceived enemies.

    You speak as a fool you act like a fool and you are the epitome of a God hater ,

    If that were true, you would have no trouble exposing my “foolishness.” But you can’t do that. You can’t show any error in anything I’ve written. I proved that your wife was wrong about Helen Keller, so both of you now avoid that topic like the plague, because the TRUTH is a plague upon your delusions.

    All you can do is spew out meaningless accusations about imaginary sins like homosexuality. You don’t know me from Adam. You are obviously just a spewer of mindless hatred.

  107. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    Science is very specific and does not allo for fantasy.

    Gravity
    Gravity
    Gravity

    Is Gravity a superstition?

    Have you never heard of the THEORY of gravity?

    Does that mean that gravity is “just a theory”?

    Same goes for the theory of evolution.

    There would be no theory of gravity if there were no facts of gravity in need of explanation.

    Same goes for evolution.

  108. Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Maybe you didn’t take inorganic chemistry either.
    Did you not like Science Mr McGough?

    I loved Science, I already told you that.
    You will find it very hard to refute my education.

    Maybe you should go back to grade school and try to learn something of value.

    Wow, your arrogance has overflowed the banks of your river of ignorance!

    Your comments on evolution demonstrate you don’t understand the most basic elements of the science.

  109. Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Mr Magoo

    Stupid is as stupid does , you win the prize! Wow you can’t answer you resort to whining,posting how stupid you really are,and then talk in circles just like the vicious circle you run in,Humorous, it’s like talking to a fool, all your ramblings prove nothing:) how is it you cause of not answering questions but you fail to answer any yourself? Oh yes , you are professing to be wise and have made yourself stupid! Ramble on Mr Magoo no one cares:)

    That’s all you got Daniel? Mocking my name and calling me stupid like a dysfunctional adolescent? You prove you cannot answer any of the facts I have presented. Case in point: I proved that your wife LIED about Helen Keller and so both of you refuse to answer no matter how many times I bring it to your attention. Do you really think that all the readers of this thread can’t see what you are doing? How freaking pathetic!

  110. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Hey Daniel,

    You said it right–Mr McGough acts as though he gave a “century”, but it was a measly decade.

    10 years, and HE knows everything there is to know! Wow that’s simply amazing!

  111. Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Hey Daniel,

    You said it right–Mr McGough acts as though he gave a “century”, but it was a measly decade.

    10 years, and HE knows everything there is to know! Wow that’s simply amazing!

    Again you expose the perversion of your heart by blatantly lying about me. I never claimed to “know everything.” But I do know some things, and you confirm my knowledge every time your refuse to answer my refutations of your claims about Helen Keller (who was deeply devoted to the occult teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg).

    And I also know that Yahweh cannot be the true God because the Bible describes him in self-contradictory terms, saying he is kind, just, and wise even as it says he does things that are cruel, unjust, and irrational.

  112. Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    So, what did the first organic cell eat?

    An organic cell can’t divide without some food first (organic food)
    So did it eat chemicals?

    Do you eat chemicals Mr McGough?

    Wow. Your ignorance is as deep as the ocean. The word “organic” refers to a TYPE of chemical! You should know this since you mentioned “organic chemistry.” Apparently you don’t even understand the definition of that science, let alone its content!

    Organic chemistry is a chemistry subdiscipline involving the scientific study of the structure, properties, and reactions of organic compounds and organic materials, i.e., matter in its various forms that contain carbon atoms.[1][2] Study of structure includes many physical and chemical methods to determine the chemical composition and the chemical constitution of organic compounds and materials.

    Is there no bottom to the abyss of your mind?

  113. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    You didn’t even know about Helen Keller until I brought up the subject, and now you said I lied about her? How so ?

    Is everyone a liar Mr MGough according to you ?

    You have the only truth? So you say, and everyone else lies ? No doubt there are some who won’t agree with you.

    You didn’t know Helen Keller in her blindness and deftness, and she didn’t know you, Bur you believe that you know everything that happened to her in her blindness and darkness (although you weren’t there) so we are to take your explanation of her experience as truth ?

    Her testimony is more believable, your hearsay is biased

  114. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    Everyone knows the difference between organic (living) and inorganic (non living).

    Again, do you drink diesel for breakfast?

    Maybe that’s why you are soooo grouchy.
    Eggs are better for you, try eating eggs.

  115. Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    You didn’t even know about Helen Keller until I brought up the subject, and now you said I lied about her? How so ?

    You lied when you said this:

    Helen Keller gave her own (eye witness) testimony about The Lord Jesus, this testimony was heard by witnesses and recorded. The evidence is beyond even a shadow of any doubt given the fact doctors confirmed her complete blindness and deftness. Her behavior in her prior state of “unreachableness” by anyone around her was also recorded. She later gave testimony that The Lord had already reached her in her helplessness, fear, and confusion and comforted her. I have never heard anyone but you, Mr. McGough, try to discredit her testimony, or even question it for that matter.

    I wouldn’t have called it a “lie” if you had not shown that you were deliberately refusing to admit the truth by refusing to answer my refutation.

    Is everyone a liar Mr MGough according to you ?

    Don’t be absurd. But you and Daniel have spewed many lies. Almost everything you have said about me is false and utterly unjustifiable because it rests on nothing but your own perverse imagination which you think is your gawd talking to you.

    You have the only truth? So you say, and everyone else lies ? No doubt there are some who won’t agree with you.

    Again, don’t be absurd. When I say you lied, I provide evidence. If you think I erred, you could expose my error. But you don’t do that. When I showed you lied, you changed the subject to avoid admitting the truth.

    You didn’t know Helen Keller in her blindness and deftness, and she didn’t know you, Bur you believe that you know everything that happened to her in her blindness and darkness (although you weren’t there) so we are to take your explanation of her experience as truth ?

    I have never said that I know everything about Helen Keller. The fact you keep repeating such an absurdity reveals the utter corruption of your mind. It appears you couldn’t say a true word if your life depended on it.

    What I did do is provide EVIDENCE that contradicts your assertions. I actually QUOTED the people you cited, and showed that they did not support your claims. You refuse to admit the truth, and chose rather to descend into mindless name calling that reveals nothing but how your religion has corrupted your mind and your morals. You don’t give a shit about truth. You despise truth. You spit on truth. This is the one fact that you have established beyond all doubt.

    Her testimony is more believable, your hearsay is biased

    I quoted her testimony, and it directly contradicts your claims. You appear to be an utterly incorrigible enemy of all that is true and good.

  116. Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Everyone knows the difference between organic (living) and inorganic (non living).

    Again, do you drink diesel for breakfast?

    Ha! There really is no bottom to the abyss of your mind! Diesel is an ORGANIC freaking CHEMICAL you mindless moron!

    Here is the definition (source)

    Illustrated Glossary of Organic Chemistry

    Gasoline (petrol): A complex mixture of organic molecules, mainly hydrocarbons, derived from fractional distillation of petroleum. Frequently contains oxygenates such as ethanol or MTBE to boost octane rating. Used principally as a fuel for internal combustion engines. Diesel fuel is much like gasoline, except that is a higher boiling fraction of the petroleum distillate.

    I can’t thank you enough for posting here. You are a most excellent example of how fundamentalist religion feeds the ego and destroys the intellect.

  117. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    It’s just like Daniel said, you are blinded by hate and rage, and just like satan, you have to believe your self-inflicted lie and reject the truth.

    Who’s deceived?

    You reject the truth of all you see, you have made yourself your own god and rejected Almighty God. It’s quite simple, like I said, you are as rediculous as satan. I have now down graded you to wicked also. I was trying to be kind and give you the benefit of a doubt that you might be able to see again. But you have rejected all correction. And for now, it is here you choose to remain. Keep your hate Mr. McGough, it is desolate and cold. You think hell is hot like a fire you see today?
    Even satan today still enjoys the presence of Almighty God.
    To be “cast into the lake of fire” is to be cast completely away and totally separated from Father forever, and never to return, ever again. But you will have the desire to be, but you will also remember why you can’t be. This type of “burning” is quite the opposite of what you think you know Mr Mc Gough. You can’t possibly know anything you haven’t fully experienced.
    That’s why it’s so easy for Daniel and me to tell you about you : )
    The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.

  118. Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    It’s just like Daniel said, you are blinded by hate and rage, and just like satan, you have to believe your self-inflicted lie and reject the truth.

    Who’s deceived?

    You reject the truth of all you see, you have made yourself your own god and rejected Almighty God. It’s quite simple, like I said, you are as rediculous as satan. I have now down graded you to wicked also. I was trying to be kind and give you the benefit of a doubt that you might be able to see again. But you have rejected all correction. And for now, it is here you choose to remain. Keep your hate Mr. McGough, it is desolate and cold. You think hell is hot like a fire you see today?

    Ha! You can’t defend your ignorant assertions about either Helen Keller or organic chemistry, so you resort to your only fallback – spewing more slander and unfounded assertions.

    Have you “corrected” me on one point of fact? Nope. Not one point. On the contrary, I have been correcting YOU and you have not been able to refute any of the evidence I have presented. I have shown you don’t have a clue about basic science like organic chemistry. You didn’t even know that organic chemicals were chemicals! And yet you sit in your self-exalting throne, like Satan himself, declaring your self to be “wise” and anyone who exposes your error is an “enemy of God” destined for the “lake of fire.”

    LOL. Religion really generates a load of lunatic freaks, that’s for sure.

  119. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    It’s funny that you have to cut and paste so many things!

    Do you also drink muriatic acid (HCL) ?

    Did you evolve from drinking diesel and muriatic acid and now eat eggs?

    Maybe you developed a sensitive stomach from all those harsh chemicals.

  120. Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    It’s funny that you have to cut and paste so many things!

    Do you also drink muriatic acid (HCL) ?

    Did you evolve from drinking diesel and muriatic acid and now eat eggs?

    Maybe you developed a sensitive stomach from all those harsh chemicals.

    There’s nothing “funny” about having to post evidence that proves your gross ignorance of basic chemistry.

    Laugh all you want. It is only the cackle of a fool in the face of evidence that exposes her error.

    I hope you keep posting because with each post you dig the hole deeper. The fact that I cannot metabolise some organic chemicals does not mean that they are not organic or that other organisms have not evolved to use them as food. I’d post the link to the evidence but there is no need since anyone with the slightest knowledge of organic chemistry knows my words are true and that you are radically, pathetically, and inexcusably ignorant.

  121. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    “Corrected you with fact”?

    Are monkeys a figment of your imagination Mr. McGough?

    Am I slanderous by telling you that no, your grand parents were not baboons (?)

    A lunatic freek? You believe you evolved from a bacteria and I’m a lunatic ?

    Oh, ok I get it, you drink latex paint also.
    If you came from a bacteria, how did you develop a tolorance to antibiotics?

    If evolution says the atmosphere was created by volcanos, how come they now are considered bad because all of the spewing of chemicals into the ozone layer?

  122. Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    So, what did the first organic cell eat?

    An organic cell can’t divide without some food first (organic food)
    So did it eat chemicals?

    Lisa,

    Your question reveals your inexcusable ignorance of basic chemistry. First, organic chemicals are chemicals. Second, not all organisms live by eating organic chemicals. This is common knowledge to anyone slightly familiar with organic chemistry. And it was recently in the news because of a discovery of a cave that has been sealed off from the rest of the world for over 5 million years. It contains many organisms that have evolved into unique species not found anywhere else. Besides being direct observable evidence of evolution, it also provides an example of a food chain based on bacteria that get their energy from chemosynthesis. Here’s a snippet from the BBC:

    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150904-the-bizarre-beasts-living-in-romanias-poison-cave

    In the south-east of Romania, in Constanța county close to the Black Sea and the Bulgarian border, there lies a barren featureless plain. The desolate field is completely unremarkable, except for one thing.

    Below it lies a cave that has remained isolated for 5.5 million years. While our ape-like ancestors were coming down from the trees and evolving into modern humans, the inhabitants of this cave were cut off from the rest of the planet.

    Despite a complete absence of light and a poisonous atmosphere, the cave is crawling with life. There are unique spiders, scorpions, woodlice and centipedes, many never before seen by humans, and all of them owe their lives to a strange floating mat of bacteria.

    “These bacteria get their carbon from carbon dioxide just like plants do,” says Boden. “The carbon dioxide level in the cave is about 100 times higher than normal air. But unlike plants, they obviously can’t use photosynthesis as there is no light.”

    Rather than using light as an energy source, the Movile bacteria use a process known as chemosynthesis.

    “They get the energy needed… from chemical reactions: the key ones being the oxidation of sulphide and similar sulphur ions into sulphuric acid, or the oxidation of ammonium found in the groundwaters to nitrate,” says Boden.

    If anyone is denying truth that can be seen with their own eyes, it is you Lisa. You have no excuse, especially when you claim that you have knowledge of science. Given the rank ignorance you have displayed, I have no choice to to conclude that you are either a blatant liar or an utterly deluded fool. You leave no options.

  123. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Who says I’m laughing? I’m not laughing. Can you prove I’m laughing? Are you somehow seeing me laugh? Just because you are so blind, is that somehow funny? Do you imaging me laughing? How can you prove it?

    Actually neither you or Mr. “Free” are all that humerus. Mr “free’s” comment about a lot of people believing in things that can’t prove was rather comical though : ) and Daniel and I laughed then.

    But no, I’m not laughing now

  124. Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    “Corrected you with fact”?

    Yes. I have presented facts about chemistry and Helen Keller that contradict your claims. You have not been able to answer.

    Are monkeys a figment of your imagination Mr. McGough?

    What are you babbling about? I never said they were.

    Am I slanderous by telling you that no, your grand parents were not baboons (?)

    Again, your words are utterly absurd. I never said baboons are my grandparents.

    You comment reveals your abject ignorance of evolution. No one (except ignorant creationists) say that modern humans evolved from baboons. Nothing could be more absurd. Baboons and humans diverged from a common ancestor millions of years ago:

    Palaeontologists working in Tanzania have discovered the oldest known fossils from two major primate groups — Old World monkeys, which include baboons and macaques, and apes, which include humans and chimpanzees.

    How is it possible you could think yourself qualified to reject a science you don’t know the first thing about? If that’s not arrogance, I don’t know what is.

  125. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    I’m very certain monkeys won’t like you either Mr McGough, you are not like them.

    You could try living with the apes again, but I really would advise you not to.

  126. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    You think you make sense?
    Mr McGough you do not make sense, at all.

    There is a great chasm between your thinking and my knowing.

    If you can’t see the difference between men and monkeys, how can you even think yourself rational?

  127. Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    A lunatic freek? You believe you evolved from a bacteria and I’m a lunatic ?

    If you can believe your body grew from a single fertilized egg cell, why is it so hard to imagine that all life evolved from a single cell?

    Oh, ok I get it, you drink latex paint also.

    You obviously don’t “get” it. You missed my point entirely even after I explained it and supported my words with incontrovertible facts.

    You one piece of work Lisa.

    If you came from a bacteria, how did you develop a tolorance to antibiotics?

    The fact that you could ask that question only proves, yet again, that you are utterly ignorant of the most basic facts of biology.

    If evolution says the atmosphere was created by volcanos, how come they now are considered bad because all of the spewing of chemicals into the ozone layer?

    First, evolution does not “say” anything. Conclusion made by scientists are based on evidence and reason, logic and facts.

    Second, the fact that volcanoes helped form the atmosphere does not mean that they are useful for maintaining the current atmosphere. This is because the atmosphere changed over time. Case in point: the evolution of photosynthesis introduced a lot of O2 into the atmosphere that was required before the evolution of animals. So what was good then is not good now. This is an extremely elementary point. The fact that I need to explain it only confirms, for the hundredth time, that you don’t have a clue of the science that you ignorantly reject. Your religion has utterly destroyed your mind.

  128. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    You accept Gravity (a force you can’t see)
    And reject the monkey that you can see
    You say you know all things and have convinced yourself you are right and wise in your own eyes

    1Corinthians 1:

    27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

    28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

    29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

    30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

    31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

  129. Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    You think you make sense?
    Mr McGough you do not make sense, at all.

    I am only explaining elementary science to you Lisa. It’s not my fault if you can’t understand.

    There is a great chasm between your thinking and my knowing.

    Indeed there is. Your “knowing” is demonstrably delusional whereas my “thinking” is based on logic and facts.

    If you can’t see the difference between men and monkeys, how can you even think yourself rational?

    Again, you spew absurdities. I never said that there is no difference between men and monkeys! What is wrong with your brain? Why do you keep making up crap that I never said?

  130. Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    You accept Gravity (a force you can’t see)
    And reject the monkey that you can see
    You say you know all things and have convinced yourself you are right and wise in your own eyes

    What are you babbling about? What monkey have I rejected?

    And why do you constantly spew such lies? I have never said that I “know all things.”

    It’s hard to believe anyone could be as messed up as you Lisa. Wow. You really take the cake on crazy.

  131. Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    You say you know all things and have convinced yourself you are right and wise in your own eyes

    1Corinthians 1:

    27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

    Two problems:

    1) You LIE when you say that I said that I “know all things.”

    2) You have not “confounded” anything with your lunatic ravings.

  132. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    If there is no difference between men and monkeys, then you might have had some validity to your claim of coming from one.

    The fact there are differences between men and monkeys (no science required to see this)
    is the very reason to reject your God-hating religion or pseudo-scientific form of it.

    The acid fried your brain. Almighty God has never spoken to you, although the acid induced state you were in caused your delusional thinking and no doubt you listened to some demon. This mystical thinking you have of Almighty God is not real. Almighty God has no part in mysticism, it is of satan.

  133. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Mr Magoo

    Here’s one of your quotes , Much of my study in those years was done in my favorite dive, the Blue Moon Tavern in Seattle. On a typical night you would see me with a calculator, a notebook, Bible, and a beer. That’s where Mike, a Christian who understood the spiritual value of LSD, found me. He asked if we could go to my place, drop acid, and study the Bible. I thought it was a great idea even though I wasn’t into the New Testament. It was a transformative night that re-awoke my faith in Christ. Mike read a verse about the Holy Spirit and when I heard the words a blindingly bright phosphorescent white light – unlike anything you could see with your natural eyes – began to emerge from my chest with wings expanding like a dove that filled the universe. I had visions of how the everything was created by the Word. I had visions of rabbis dancing with joy as they came to knowledge of Christ. A little later I randomly opened my Bible to the fourth chapter of Hebrews and felt something tugging my eye, compelling me to look at verse 12 and to make a connection with the verse number:
    I’m sure it wasn’t God talking to you !! Dropping acid ? Doing lsd ? And you think God was talking to you , I’m convinced you never came off your bad trip , you weren’t hearing God , you are delusional!!! Like I said between your homosexual tendencies, your lying and cheating, your self serving worship of your flesh it is no wonder you think your flywheel theology has taken you where you are ! Keep it up ,you’re going places :)

  134. Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    If there is no difference between men and monkeys, then you might have had some validity to your claim of coming from one.

    If there were no difference between men and monkeys, then men would be monkeys and monkeys men. Your words are gibberish.

    The fact there are differences between men and monkeys (no science required to see this)
    is the very reason to reject your God-hating religion or pseudo-scientific form of it.

    The fact that there is a 96% genetic similarity between the genomes of chimpanzees and humans is strong evidence of a common ancestor. The number of genetic differences between humans and chimps is ten times smaller than that between mice and rats.

    With every post, you confirm your gross and inexcusable ignorance of the science that you blindly reject.

    I do not have a “God-hating religion” and you have not shown any error in any of my statements about science, so again we see that you are spewing mindless lies. The corruption of your mind and morals appears to be total.

  135. Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    The acid fried your brain. Almighty God has never spoken to you, although the acid induced state you were in caused your delusional thinking and no doubt you listened to some demon. This mystical thinking you have of Almighty God is not real. Almighty God has no part in mysticism, it is of satan.

    Two points:

    1) If my mind were “fried” you would have no problem refuting me. But you can’t refute a word I have written. I have exposed your errors on many issues ranging from science to Helen Keller, and you can’t answer.

    2) Helen Keller was a devout follower of the MYSTIC Emanuel Swedenborg so you just directly contradicted your assertion that the Lord Jesus Christ talked to her. LOL.

  136. Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Mr Magoo

    Here’s one of your quotes

    [… snip …]

    I’m sure it wasn’t God talking to you !! Dropping acid ? Doing lsd ? And you think God was talking to you , I’m convinced you never came off your bad trip , you weren’t hearing God , you are delusional!!! Like I said between your homosexual tendencies, your lying and cheating, your self serving worship of your flesh it is no wonder you think your flywheel theology has taken you where you are ! Keep it up ,you’re going places :)

    Nice try Daniel, but that quote has nothing to do with your false accusation about me being a “liar.” What is wrong with your brain? Why do I have to explain such basic points? I challenged you to quote something I have written that would be evidence supporting the PUTRID LIES you have written about me. You have not done that because you cannot do it. And why can you not do it? Because you are a perverse LIAR. A arrogant, ignorant religious lunatic who spews baseless accusations that would put Satan to shame.

    Again your reveal nothing but the putrid rot that once was your heart.

  137. Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Like I said between your homosexual tendencies, your lying and cheating, your self serving worship of your flesh it is no wonder you think your flywheel theology has taken you where you are !

    You really are a septic tank of polluted thoughts Daniel! Wow. Are you not aware that the Bible says it is a sin for you to accuse others without evidence? So now you have obligated yourself to provide evidence for these charges:

    1) your homosexual tendencies,
    2) your lying and cheating,
    3) your self serving worship of your flesh

    You now must present EVIDENCE justifying those charges, or you will be publicly admitting that you are a liar and a false accuser, a “son of Satan” to use the Biblical parlance.

  138. Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Lisa said: Almighty God has no part in mysticism, it is of satan.

    Lisa said: Helen Keller claims The Lord came to her in her darkness and already knew Him, but it was later she was told His Name.

    Helen Keller said: Since I was sixteen years old, I have been a strong believer in the doctrines given to the world by Emanuel Swedenborg. It was his mission to teach men to listen to the inward voice rather than to opinions and disputations. After many years of reverent study of the Bible, I gratefully wonder if I am not more indebted to Swedenborg for the faith that turns my darkness to light than I have yet realized. I acknowledge my profound indebtedness to Emanuel Swedenborg for a richer interpretation of the Bible, a deeper understanding of the meaning of Christianity, and a precious sense of the Divine Presence in the world.

    The wiki says: The Swedenborg Rite or Rite of Swedenborg was a fraternal order modeled on Freemasonry and based upon the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg. It comprised six Degrees: Apprentice, Fellow Craft, Master Neophyte, Illuminated Theosophite, Blue Brother, and Red Brother.[1]

    Swedenborg and Helen Keller were MYSTICS.

    Lisa appeals to the testimony of a self-proclaimed mystic as proof of her religion even as she says God has nothing to do with mysticism because it is “of Satan.”

    Lisa has directly contradicted herself. She tried to hijack the mystic Helen Keller as evidence for her delusional beliefs, but didn’t even know the first thing about what Helen Keller actually believed.

  139. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Lisa,

    Previously I apologized for proclaiming that “God” doesn’t speak to you, which was a statement of fact of which I had no evidence, so I apologized. I challenged you to tell me what I wrote down and then if you were correct I would believe you that God spoke to you, and unsurprisingly you can’t tell me what I wrote. For this reason alone I’m compelled to declare with certainty that God doesn’t speak to you, but then I remember that it’s not my place to order God to perform tricks.

    And then you said this:

    “If given the opportunity, you would want to kill our Wonderful Father in Heaven”.

    Now I KNOW that God does not speak to you. You see, I’ve already had this discussion with the supreme being. You see, I’m a human being Lisa so it is not my place to battle (literally) supernatural beings, but rather it is my place to battle (figuratively) human beings. The supreme being knows that I prefer death rather than associating with a violent God. I willingly choose eternal death over the Christian “God” and the Christian “Heaven”. So you speaking to God has been debunked Lisa. YOU DO NOT SPEAK TO GOD. Whatever is speaking to you is not the “supreme” being, as me and the “supreme” being are already in complete understanding.

  140. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Lisa,

    I don’t like using the term “supreme”. I believe that at least one supernatural being exists. “Supreme” in the context of my last comment means “absolute ruler”.

  141. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Richard,

    I’ve yet to disagree with you in this conversation.

    The Helen Keller exchange is pure gold.

  142. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    Mr Magoo

    Proof you are a liar that was an easy one ,you say You know God spoke to you ! Either you were lying then or you are lying now! You can’t have it both ways , in any event the outcome is the same you’re a liar case closed ! God says you’re a liar and the truth isn’t in you ! As far as the homosexual desires, hating, cheating, lying, slandering, and inventing new forms of evil, they are just a result of your denial of God . So quit rambling and put some thought into your depraved mind :) I’ll pray for your homosexual tendencies and behavior and vile imaginings and hope you can see more than just what you’ve become by your denial of all truth , Unfortunately you are void of all truth, understanding and reason and are exactly where you chose to be :)

  143. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Mr Magoo

    Just wanted to mention since reading Michael’s last comment, seems like your tendencies and behaviors are not in vain, you may want to send him a private message :) you have a following!

  144. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    Is Lisa going to keep misquoting the mystic Helen Keller while at the same time condemning mysticism?

    Neither of you are fit to sit on a jury of ones peers so what makes you think you are a judge of anything? You don’t even know what facts are which is why this thread is littered with your unrepentant lies and perversions.

    I literally would rather sit and eat at my dinner table with actual pigs than with the both you.

  145. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Test (noun):
    “a procedure intended to establish the quality, performance, or reliability of something.”
    Test (verb):
    “take measures to check the quality, performance, or reliability of (something).”
    Test (metallurgy):
    “hearth in a reverberating furnace, used for separating gold or silver from lead.” (Used for refining)

    Testify (verb):
    give evidence as a witness in a law court
    synonyms: give evidence, bear witness, be a witness, give one’s testimony, attest; make a deposition
    “you may be required to testify in court”
    attest, swear, state on oath, state, declare, assert, affirm;
    allege, submit, claim;
    depose
    “he testified that he had been threatened by a fellow officer”
    serve as evidence or proof of something’s existing or being the case.
    “the bleak lines testify to inner torment”
    synonyms: be evidence/proof of, attest to, confirm, prove, corroborate, substantiate, bear out; More

    Testimony (noun):
    A formal written or spoken statement, especially one given in a court of law.
    synonyms: evidence, sworn statement, attestation, affidavit; More
    evidence or proof provided by the existence or appearance of something.
    “his blackened finger was testimony to the fact that he had played in pain”
    synonyms: testament to, proof of, evidence of, attestation to, witness to; More
    a public recounting of a religious conversion or experience.

    Witness (noun):
    1. A person who sees an event, typically a crime or accident, take place.
    “police are appealing for witnesses to the accident”
    synonyms: observer, onlooker, eyewitness, spectator, viewer, watcher; bystander, passerby
    “witnesses claimed that he started the fight”
    2. evidence; proof.
    “the memorial service was witness to the wide circle of his interest”.

    Witness (verb):
    1. See (an event, typically a crime or accident) take place.
    “a bartender who witnessed the murder”
    synonyms: see, observe, watch, view, notice, spot; More
    2. give or serve as evidence of; testify to.
    “his writings witness to an inner toughness”

    Elihu, Joseph (Jacob’s son), and Stephen (they were all excellent! And gave excellent testimony)
    I really like when Elihu speaks to Job:
    (There’s always a prophet on the scene just prior to Almighty God making His entrance, in case you didn’t know that : )

    Elihu is introduced in Job 32, and then speaks to Job in Job 32-39
    Job 32: Elihu starts his reverent telling of Almighty God
    8 But there is [a vital force] a spirit [of intelligence] in man, and the breath of the Almighty gives men understanding.

    Job 37: Elihu ends his reverent telling of Almighty God
    24 Men therefore [reverently] fear Him; He regards and respects not any who are wise in heart [in their own understanding]

    Joseph (Jacob’s son) a life testimony of salvation through adversity.
    Genesis 27-45

    Genesis 27:
    28 Then as the Midianite [and Ishmaelite] merchants were passing by, the brothers pulled Joseph up and lifted him out of the well. And they sold him for twenty pieces of silver to the Ishmaelites, who took Joseph [captive] into Egypt.

    Genesis 45:
    7 God sent me before you to preserve for you a posterity and to continue a remnant on the earth, to save your lives by a great escape and save for you many survivors.
    8 So now it was not you who sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt.

    Stephen: the steadfast testimony even in the face of his own death. He was personally taught by The Lord Jesus. The Lord stood for Stephen!! Apostle Paul was a witness to both The Lord’s death and Stephen’s.
    Verse 54: the Sanhedrin ground their teeth (like you Mr. McGough!)

    Acts 7:

    7 And the high priest asked [Stephen], Are these charges true?
    2 And he answered, Brethren and fathers, listen to me! The God of glory appeared to our forefather Abraham when he was still in Mesopotamia, before he [went to] live in Haran,
    3 And He said to him, Leave your own country and your relatives and come into the land (region) that I will point out to you.
    4 So then he went forth from the land of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran. And from there, after his father died, [God] transferred him to this country in which you are now dwelling.
    5 Yet He gave him no inheritable property in it, [no] not even enough ground to set his foot on; but He promised that He would give it to Him for a permanent possession and to his descendants after him, even though [as yet] he had no child.
    6 And this is [in effect] what God told him: That his descendants would be aliens (strangers) in a land belonging to other people, who would bring them into bondage and ill-treat them 400 years.
    7 But I will judge the nation to whom they will be slaves, said God, and after that they will escape and come forth and worship Me in this [very] place.
    8 And [God] made with Abraham a covenant (an agreement to be religiously observed) of which circumcision was the seal. And under these circumstances [Abraham] became the father of Isaac and circumcised him on the eighth day; and Isaac [did so] when he became the father of Jacob, and Jacob [when each of his sons was born], the twelve patriarchs.
    9 And the patriarchs [Jacob’s sons], boiling with envy and hatred and anger, sold Joseph into slavery in Egypt; but God was with him,
    10 And delivered him from all his distressing afflictions and won him goodwill and favor and wisdom and understanding in the sight of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, who made him governor over Egypt and all his house.
    11 Then there came a famine over all of Egypt and Canaan, with great distress, and our forefathers could find no fodder [for the cattle] or vegetable sustenance [for their households].
    12 But when Jacob heard that there was grain in Egypt, he sent forth our forefathers [to go there on their] first trip.
    13 And on their second visit Joseph revealed himself to his brothers, and the family of Joseph became known to Pharaoh and his origin and race.
    14 And Joseph sent an invitation calling to himself Jacob his father and all his kindred, seventy-five persons in all.
    15 And Jacob went down into Egypt, where he himself died, as did [also] our forefathers;
    16 And their bodies [Jacob’s and Joseph’s] were taken back to Shechem and laid in the tomb which Abraham had purchased for a sum of [silver] money from the sons of Hamor in Shechem.
    17 But as the time for the fulfillment of the promise drew near which God had made to Abraham, the [Hebrew] people increased and multiplied in Egypt,
    18 Until [the time when] there arose over Egypt another and a different king who did not know Joseph [neither knowing his history and services nor recognizing his merits].
    19 He dealt treacherously with and defrauded our race; he abused and oppressed our forefathers, forcing them to expose their babies so that they might not be kept alive.
    20 At this juncture Moses was born, and was exceedingly beautiful in God’s sight. For three months he was nurtured in his father’s house;
    21 Then when he was exposed [to perish], the daughter of Pharaoh rescued him and took him and reared him as her own son.
    22 So Moses was educated in all the wisdom and culture of the Egyptians, and he was mighty (powerful) in his speech and deeds.
    23 And when he was in his fortieth year, it came into his heart to visit his kinsmen the children of Israel [to help them and to care for them].
    24 And on seeing one of them being unjustly treated, he defended the oppressed man and avenged him by striking down the Egyptian and slaying [him].
    25 He expected his brethren to understand that God was granting them deliverance by his hand [taking it for granted that they would accept him]; but they did not understand.
    26 Then on the next day he suddenly appeared to some who were quarreling and fighting among themselves, and he urged them to make peace and become reconciled, saying, Men, you are brethren; why do you abuse and wrong one another?
    27 Whereupon the man who was abusing his neighbor pushed [Moses] aside, saying, Who appointed you a ruler (umpire) and a judge over us?
    28 Do you intend to slay me as you slew the Egyptian yesterday?
    29 At that reply Moses sought safety by flight and he was an exile and an alien in the country of Midian, where he became the father of two sons.
    30 And when forty years had gone by, there appeared to him in the wilderness (desert) of Mount Sinai an angel, in the flame of a burning bramblebush.
    31 When Moses saw it, he was astonished and marveled at the sight; but when he went close to investigate, there came to him the voice of the Lord, saying,
    32 I am the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob. And Moses trembled and was so terrified that he did not venture to look.
    33 Then the Lord said to him, Remove the sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy ground and worthy of veneration.
    34 Because I have most assuredly seen the abuse and oppression of My people in Egypt and have heard their sighing and groaning, I have come down to rescue them. So, now come! I will send you back to Egypt [as My messenger].
    35 It was this very Moses whom they had denied (disowned and rejected), saying, Who made you our ruler (referee) and judge? whom God sent to be a ruler and deliverer and redeemer, by and with the [protecting and helping] hand of the Angel that appeared to him in the bramblebush.
    36 He it was who led them forth, having worked wonders and signs in Egypt and at the Red Sea and during the forty years in the wilderness (desert).
    37 It was this [very] Moses who said to the children of Israel, God will raise up for you a Prophet from among your brethren as He raised me up.
    38 This is he who in the assembly in the wilderness (desert) was the go-between for the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai and our forefathers, and he received living oracles (words that still live) to be handed down to us.
    39 [And yet] our forefathers determined not to be subject to him [refusing to listen to or obey him]; but thrusting him aside they rejected him, and in their hearts yearned for and turned back to Egypt.
    40 And they said to Aaron, Make us gods who shall [be our leaders and] go before us; as for this Moses who led us forth from the land of Egypt—we have no knowledge of what has happened to him.
    41 And they [even] made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice to the idol and made merry and exulted in the work of their [own] hands.
    42 But God turned [away from them] and delivered them up to worship and serve the host (stars) of heaven, as it is written in the book of the prophets: Did you [really] offer to Me slain beasts and sacrifices for forty years in the wilderness (desert), O house of Israel?
    43 [No!] You took up the tent (the portable temple) of Moloch and carried it [with you], and the star of the god Rephan, the images which you [yourselves] made that you might worship them; and I will remove you [carrying you away into exile] beyond Babylon.
    44 Our forefathers had the tent (tabernacle) of witness in the wilderness, even as He Who directed Moses to make it had ordered, according to the pattern and model he had seen.
    45 Our forefathers in turn brought it [this tent of witness] in [with them into the land] with Joshua when they dispossessed the nations which God drove out before the face of our forefathers. [So it remained here] until the time of David,
    46 Who found grace (favor and spiritual blessing) in the sight of God and prayed that he might be allowed to find a dwelling place for the God of Jacob.
    47 But it was Solomon who built a house for Him.
    48 However, the Most High does not dwell in houses and temples made with hands; as the prophet says,
    49 Heaven [is] My throne, and earth the footstool for My feet. What [kind of] house can you build for Me, says the Lord, or what is the place in which I can rest?
    50 Was it not My hand that made all these things?
    51 You stubborn and stiff-necked people, still heathen and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you are always actively resisting the Holy Spirit. As your forefathers [were], so you [are and so you do]!
    52 Which of the prophets did your forefathers not persecute? And they slew those who proclaimed beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, Whom you now have betrayed and murdered—
    53 You who received the Law as it was ordained and set in order and delivered by angels, and [yet] you did not obey it!
    54 Now upon hearing these things, they [the Jews] were cut to the heart and infuriated, and they ground their teeth against [Stephen].
    55 But he, full of the Holy Spirit and controlled by Him, gazed into heaven and saw the glory (the splendor and majesty) of God, and Jesus standing at God’s right hand;
    56 And he said, Look! I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand!
    57 But they raised a great shout and put their hands over their ears and rushed together upon him.
    58 Then they dragged him out of the city and began to stone him, and the witnesses placed their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.
    59 And while they were stoning Stephen, he prayed, Lord Jesus, receive and accept and welcome my spirit!
    60 And falling on his knees, he cried out loudly, Lord, fix not this sin upon them [lay it not to their charge]! And when he had said this, he fell asleep [in death].

  146. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Hi Michael

    Sometimes even satan’s seed has to tell the truth, with that being said, you already do eat with pigs! Be careful Michelle you might get what you ask for

  147. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Since you know so much about the Bible Mr. McGough,

    What is Almighty God’s purposes for witnesses?

    Wouldn’t it be the same as in a court of law?

    Almighty God’s Law requires the testimony of two witnesses.

    Would The Lord possibly chose (predestined or ordain) two people as His personal witnesses to test this world to see what the world did with His gift? His Most Precious Gift of The Lord Jesus?

    Maybe their whole lives even from the time they were conceived they have been used as His testers?
    What have they seen? What have they experienced? What will their testimony be for these litmus paper people? Hmmmm

    Noah testified of the flood for 100+ years–did anyone pay attention?
    Jesus said it would be as in the day of Noah

    One thing is for sure, how quickly people forget!

    Surely these two other people would be the most hated by satan and his creepy children!
    No doubt satan would also know their entrance would mean his time left was very short.

    After The Lord’s Ascension into Heaven and He sent His Holy Spirit, what reason was there for prophets at that point?

    So there hasn’t been a real prophet of Almighty God on the scene for 2000 years. So what? Is 2000 years a long time? I mean after all, you evolutionists deal in the billions of years! So 2000 is like a drop in a bucket.

  148. Posted May 15, 2016 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Mr Magoo

    Proof you are a liar that was an easy one ,you say You know God spoke to you ! Either you were lying then or you are lying now! You can’t have it both ways , in any event the outcome is the same you’re a liar case closed !

    Not true. People are not “liars” merely because they change their mind about something they once believed. I sincerely believed that God had talked to me. It was not a lie. And now I sincerely believe I was wrong, so I am not lying now. If I was not lying then and I am not lying now, you have not shown that I have lied at all.

    Your logic is abysmal. You continue to act like a child mocking my name. You have the emotional and intellectual character of a dimwitted bully.

    God says you’re a liar and the truth isn’t in you !

    Actually, judging by the Bible, your God says you are a lying hypocrite and son of Satan destined for the lake of fire! You spit on the teachings of Christ and make a mockery of claim to be his servant when you continue spewing lies about me without even attempting to justify them with evidence.

    As far as the homosexual desires, hating, cheating, lying, slandering, and inventing new forms of evil, they are just a result of your denial of God .

    You have not presented any evidence for any of those charges. Therefore you are a lying son of Satan (to use the language of the Bible).

    So quit rambling and put some thought into your depraved mind :)

    You really should take your own advice!

    I’ll pray for your homosexual tendencies and behavior and vile imaginings and hope you can see more than just what you’ve become by your denial of all truth , Unfortunately you are void of all truth, understanding and reason and are exactly where you chose to be :)

    The fact that you continue to spew unfounded accusations only confirms the utter corruption of your mind and your morals. If the God of the Bible were true, you would be destined for the Lake of Fire.

  149. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    Daniel and Lisa,

    You guys look ridiculous on this thread. I’m 44 years old. I assumed that both of you are older than me but you talk like a twelve year old and can’t even answer up to simple truths. Someone needs to put you both on time-out and make you sit in your room or something, you big phonies, acting like God talks to you while you regurgitate the same shit from that stupid book. Your stupid witchcraft has been found out. Acting like God talks to you is witchcraft and sorcery you stupid asses, you filthy liars.

    “Satan’s seed”, lol, you’re so dumb. I follow the true Golden Rule in life.

  150. Posted May 15, 2016 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    I’ve yet to disagree with you in this conversation.

    The Helen Keller exchange is pure gold.

    Hey there Michael,

    There’s not much to disagree with when shoveling their shit out of the horse stall, is there? LOL

    And yes, Lisa really shot herself in the ass with her claims about Helen Keller, didn’t she? What a hoot! First she couldn’t support any of her claims about “the Lord Jesus Christ” coming to her when she was in “darkness and silence” and then she had to swallow the fact that Helen Keller was a devout follower of the occult teacher Swedenborg! Ha! It just goes to show what happens to people when their arrogance is powered by ignorance. She fulfills the passage that says her wickedness would be brought down upon her own head.

    KJV Psalm 7:16 His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate.

    Daniel and Lisa are fulfilling every Scripture that warns about wicked and perverse religious hypocrites.

  151. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Michael go butter up to yer daddy, you are too stupid to come up with anything intelligent or even coherent, like I said open your mouth and remove all doubt! Mr Magoo is as much a fool now as his lsd acid days so really that’s like going to the same horse stall to get information! You two are the perfect pair dumb and dumber but then again birds of a feather flock together:)

  152. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    Is Lisa going to keep misquoting the mystic Helen Keller while at the same time condemning mysticism?

    Neither of you are fit to sit on a jury of ones peers so what makes you think you are a judge of anything? You don’t even know what facts are which is why this thread is littered with your unrepentant lies and perversions.

    I literally would rather sit and eat at my dinner table with actual pigs than with the both you.

    Michael,

    I’m glad you are holding their feet to the fire. The irony, of course, is that they are the ones who lit that fire! Lisa was obviously ignorant of the real story of Helen Keller’s life. She probably just read some fundamentalist propaganda and ran with it. If God really talks to her, why did he warn her to avoid appealing to a known follower of Swedenborg’s occult teachings? LOL

    I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a couple more aptly named the “Demented Duo” than Daniel and Lisa.

  153. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Only credible witnesses can give testimony, liars don’t count, and Almighty God is The Judge so He knows who is who : )
    For the record:
    Since you both have testified that you hate Almighty God Who is Judge by denial of Him and by your own admissions (too many to count) we don’t expect He will respond favorably to either of you Mr. McGough and Mr. “Free”.

    You also both have given false despicable testimony against Helen Keller. The Lord said not to bear false witness against thy neighbor. What’s worse, the woman isn’t even here to defend her relationship with The Lord!

    spirits of mockery have no shame !!!

    Deuteronomy 19:

    15 One witness shall not prevail against a man for any crime or any wrong in connection with any sin he commits; only on the testimony of two or three witnesses shall a charge be established.
    16 If a false witness rises up against any man to accuse him of wrongdoing,
    17 Then both parties to the controversy shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges who are in office in those days.
    18 The judges shall inquire diligently, and if the witness is a false witness and has accused his brother falsely,
    19 Then you shall do to him as he had intended to do to his brother. So you shall put away the evil from among you.
    20 And those who remain shall hear and [reverently] fear, and shall henceforth commit no such evil among you.
    21 Your eyes shall not pity: it shall be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

    2 Corinthians 13:

    13 This is the third time that I am coming to you. By the testimony of two or three witnesses must any charge and every accusing statement be sustained and confirmed.
    2 I have already warned those who sinned formerly and all the rest also, and I warn them now again while I am absent, as I did when present on my second visit, that if I come back, I will not spare [them],
    3 Since you desire and seek [perceptible] proof of the Christ Who speaks in and through me. [For He] is not weak and feeble in dealing with you, but is a mighty power within you;
    4 For though He was crucified in weakness, yet He goes on living by the power of God. And though we too are weak in Him [as He was humanly weak], yet in dealing with you [we shall show ourselves] alive and strong in [fellowship with] Him by the power of God.

  154. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Mr Magoo and mikey

    I wouldn’t have known about your homosexual tendencies if I didn’t hear God again case closed

  155. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Michael go butter up to yer daddy, you are too stupid to come up with anything intelligent or even coherent, like I said open your mouth and remove all doubt! Mr Magoo is as much a fool now as his lsd acid days so really that’s like going to the same horse stall to get information! You two are the perfect pair dumb and dumber but then again birds of a feather flock together:)

    Ha! Another comment with no rational content.

    If you want to keep posting here you are going to have to quit being such an arrogant moronic ass Daniel. You are going to have to support your words with evidence or I will simply ban you. You have fulfilled your purpose of demonstrating the wickedness spawned by faith in your demon gawd.

    Consider this a warning. You can post all you want if you present LOGIC AND FACTS supporting your claims. If all you want to do is spew the putrid corruption that fills your mind, then you will have to do that elsewhere.

  156. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Mr Magoo and mikey

    I wouldn’t have known about your homosexual tendencies if I didn’t hear God again case closed

    That’s exactly what I thought. It appears you are so deluded and brainwashed by your cult that you believe you are justified to accuse any unbeliever of every imaginable sin because Romans 1 tells you that God has given them up “to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.” Is that correct? Is that your justification for spewing those lies about me?

  157. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    You would have to remove yourself too because you are the one who can’t respond to truth except to accuse and be like your father you know what I’m saying mr Magoo

  158. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    You also both have given false despicable testimony against Helen Keller. The Lord said not to bear false witness against thy neighbor. What’s worse, the woman isn’t even here to defend her relationship with The Lord!

    I quoted her own words you brain-dead lying freak!

    You failed to quote anything she said that supports the story you made up about “the Lord Jesus Christ” coming to her “in her darkness.”

    Nothing could be more ironic than for you to say that “liars don’t count” since you are the chief liar in this thread. I have proven it a dozen times now and you have not refuted a word I have written.

  159. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    Are you and Lisa the two witnesses of revelation?

  160. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    You would have to remove yourself too because you are the one who can’t respond to truth except to accuse and be like your father you know what I’m saying mr Magoo

    Yes, I know exactly what you are saying. You are spewing more lies based on the teachings of your cult. How many times have I challenged you to present evidence that I have lied? At least half a dozen. How many lies have you proven? ZERO. Everyone can see that you and your wife are incorrigible liars who spit on truth.

  161. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Lies ? No lies just truth! You finally are catching on,my you are slow, so how was it that I didn’t answer your question? Just because you lack any moral value and it took you days to catch on,what did you do google search? You have exceeded reprobate so I m sure the rest just follows suit have a nice live mr Magoo

  162. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    “If God really talks to her”

    Having some doubts Mr. McGough?

    You said Helen Keller was indoctrinated by people, but she said “He” of no name to her then, came to her in her darkness.

    You don’t even believe in Almighty God, remember? Shouldn’t you be saying Helen was “delusional” in her darkness?

  163. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    You said Helen Keller was indoctrinated by people, but she said “He” of no name to her then, came to her in her darkness.

    What makes you think she said that? Please provide the original source for your information. No hearsay. I have challenged your many times to present some evidence and you failed completely.

  164. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    Lies ? No lies just truth! You finally are catching on,my you are slow, so how was it that I didn’t answer your question? Just because you lack any moral value and it took you days to catch on,what did you do google search? You have exceeded reprobate so I m sure the rest just follows suit have a nice live mr Magoo

    And your babble continues. You didn’t answer my question because you failed to produce any EVIDENCE of your charges.

    So tell me, do you believe you and Lisa the “two witnesses” of Revelation?

  165. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    You said this, regarding their charges of being homosexual:

    “Romans 1 tells you that God has given them up “to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.” Is that correct? Is that your justification for spewing those lies about me?”

    I’m thinking the same line of thought except with this verse:

    “Who is the liar but those who deny that Jesus is the Christ”.

    This must be why they don’t know what a lie is, as believing in God or Jesus is a belief, if someone says they don’t believe then these two dimwits are calling them liars.

    Same goes for their “we are the two witnesses” hints.

  166. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Michael if you knew God you could answer that :) I already told you I’m the least . Maybe you can be like mr Magoo and Google what the bible says about the least . Michael it won’t do a lot of good though since your foolish mind is darkened you wouldn’t get it anyway . God bless you Michael.

  167. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    I honor the God of truth and neither of you have spoken for him, but instead have done the exact opposite. You are two simple deluded false prophets who think that regurgitating Bible verses is somehow prophecy.

  168. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Mr. “Free”,

    You don’t believe in Almighty God, you hate Him remember?

    Although I find it rediculous to hate something you don’t believe in.

    I asked Mr. McGough if he knew the purpose of the two witnesses since he says he knows so much.

    Why would I tell you two bozos Daniel and I are The Lord’s witnesses??

    Prophets of God are usually killed, sawed in half and beheaded, that sort of thing.

    Good grief, I asked a simple question, provided my understanding and now you will further accuse us of saying something I didn’t say!

    I asked a question. Many people believe this are the end of days. The witnesses come at the end and announce The Lord’s return.

  169. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    You said this, regarding their charges of being homosexual:

    “Romans 1 tells you that God has given them up “to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.” Is that correct? Is that your justification for spewing those lies about me?”

    I’m thinking the same line of thought except with this verse:

    “Who is the liar but those who deny that Jesus is the Christ”.

    This must be why they don’t know what a lie is, as believing in God or Jesus is a belief, if someone says they don’t believe then these two dimwits are calling them liars.

    Same goes for their “we are the two witnesses” hints.

    Yep, that’s what I thought from the beginning. It was as obvious as it was pathetic. He thinks he is justified to accuse anyone who disagrees with his cult as being guilty of every variety of sin. He doesn’t need any actual “evidence” because “the Bible tells him so.”

    His obsession with accusation makes Satan look like Pollyanna. He worships a demon-god that justifies every form of hatred and prejudice. He is essentially identical to the jihadis of ISIS. Like them, he delights himself by imagining his “enemies” (those who reject his cult) burning forever in a lake of fire. Gleefully watching his demon-god torturing them forever. Such is the fruit of his perverse cult.

  170. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Ugh, typos

    “Many believe these are the end of days”

  171. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Daniel is an excellent name!

    It is Hebrew

    It means, judge of God, God is my judge

  172. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Why would I tell you two bozos Daniel and I are The Lord’s witnesses??

    Ha! I knew it. You didn’t deny it. So either you are stupider than you seem (which is probably a literal impossibility) or you refuse to answer because the answer is YES! and we have a pair of winners for this week’s Ultimate Delusional Religious Freak award.

  173. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Lisa,

    I hate your version of God, you dummy, you should’ve listened to Richard when he explained this to you.

  174. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    I asked a question. Many people believe this are the end of days. The witnesses come at the end and announce The Lord’s return.

    Ha! Christian morons have been declaring it to be the “end of days” since the beginning nearly two thousand years ago! They have the longest running streak of total error of any group on the planet.

    How you different than “The Bible Guarantees It” May 21, 2011 Rapture Harold Camping? LOL.

    The Two Witnesses! LOL LOL LOL What a load of lunatic madness is spawned by fundamentalist religion?

  175. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Lol mr McGough,

    You are not “challenging” you are a fool. You give yourself way too much credit! Maybe it’s the acid again rearing its ugly head. You know they say that those kind of drugs stay in your system a very long time!

  176. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    What exact proof do you have to refute the witnesses? Time? But you believe it takes billions of years for things to happen!

    Which is it Mr McGough ? Where’s YOUR proof?

  177. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    If you two miscreants are the two witnesses then the Gnostics are right and the God of creation is evil. You stupid liars don’t even know what a lie is. That book has corrupted your mind and morals.

  178. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    What exact proof do you have to refute the witnesses? Time? But you believe it takes billions of years for things to happen!

    Which is it Mr McGough ? Where’s YOUR proof?

    Who said anything about “refuting the witnesses”?

    First things first. Are you and Daniel the two witnesses?

  179. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    Once again,

    According to Mr McGough, a long time is needed and necessary for evolution, but if Almighty God doesn’t do something in 2000 years, it’s proof He doesn’t exist???

    Evolution needs BILLIONS OF YEARS

    But they only give Almighty God 2000?

    Hardly seems fair!

  180. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    If you two miscreants are the two witnesses then the Gnostics are right and the God of creation is evil. You stupid liars don’t even know what a lie is. That book has corrupted your mind and morals.

    I bear witness to the truth of your words Michael. They now have “two witnesses” declaring their madness.

  181. Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Once again,

    According to Mr McGough, a long time is needed and necessary for evolution, but if Almighty God doesn’t do something in 2000 years, it’s proof He doesn’t exist???

    Evolution needs BILLIONS OF YEARS

    But they only give Almighty God 2000?

    Hardly seems fair!

    Answer my question and I will answer yours.

    Are you and Daniel the Two Witnesses of Revelation?

    It quite a hoot to watch you stumble over such a simple and straightforward question.

  182. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    The truth itself also bears witness, that makes it three witnesses.

  183. Posted May 15, 2016 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    The truth itself also bears witness, that makes it three witnesses.

    Well stated Michael.

    And I would add that the EVIDENCE I have presented concerning Lisa’s lies about Helen Keller adds at least another few witnesses, because I quoted Helen’s own words and others who knew her intimately.

  184. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Mr McGough,

    We can’t tell you anything, we can prove nothing to you.

    I already said we are trying to warn you. You say we know nothing.

    You will have to try and talk to The Lord again and get your understanding from Him.

    Why don’t you try repenting, then honestly just worship Him, then ask Him to help you ask the right questions. Don’t seek His power, just be thankful.

    He will be happy to lead you

  185. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    I suppose Daniel and I are finished here. We will leave you both as we found you.

    Whether we are or are not the witnesses is of no consequence to us.

  186. MichaelFree
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    You two miscreants can’t handle the truth.

  187. Posted May 15, 2016 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    I suppose Daniel and I are finished here. We will leave you both as we found you.

    Whether we are or are not the witnesses is of no consequence to us.

    Can’t say I’m sorry to see you go.

    But we aren’t exactly the same as you found us. We now have more evidence of how your demon-god religion corrupts the minds and morals of believers, and drives some deep into utter madness with delusions of grandeur. You are not the first to suffer under the delusion of being the “Two Witnesses of Revelation” and likely not the last. Your religion is a virulent poison.

  188. Posted May 15, 2016 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    I suppose Daniel and I are finished here. We will leave you both as we found you.

    Whether we are or are not the witnesses is of no consequence to us.

    You most certainly are “finished” as in KAPUT! LOL. Well done, like a steak overcooked. You have been exposed as the raving religious lunatics that you are. There’s no way you can deny that you think you are the Two Witnesses, but neither can you justify it. So it’s best that you just slink away with all your vain glory.

  189. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Likewise, we’re sure : )

    Ta ta for now : )

  190. Lisa Duke
    Posted May 16, 2016 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    ### >••••DEBUNKING RICHARD AMIEL MCGOUGH••••<###

    We have recently unearthed the answer to the question of why it was that Richard Amiel McGough once professed in a "Christian" type of faith, and now he has dumped it, along with his "Bible Wheel" invention.

    "The inventions of man and flesh……they are powerless!" Pastor David Wilkerson 2002

    THE TRUTH (in short)
    Mr. McGough sought Almighty God's power and not a true relationship with Him as a humble servant thankful for his salvation.
    Satan is always readily available to those who take this age-old path of destruction since it is the very reason satan himself was cast from Heaven along with a third of the angels he deceived (but this was necessary for Almighty God's purpose for him in The Lord's perfect plan). Adam and Eve were the first of man to be deceived by satan using his original deceptive mode of operation of 'you also can have power and be just like Almighty God if you do this…..

    Mr. McGough, inventor of his "The Bible Wheel", based his entire "revelation" on a traditionally accepted 66 documents (or books) of the Bible which, in actuallity, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Chronicles were originally one document each respectively and not originally divided into two parts.

    The evidence of this truth, in effect, dismantles Mr. McGough's "Bible Wheel" entirely. No doubt Mr. McGough spent a lot of time pursuing his dreams of grandeur which would no doubt (he thought) elevate his status in the eyes of men to possibly even a prophet.

    The mystical illusion Mr. McGough entertained in his endeavor was the product of his desire to be great (power) and satan's voice telling him he could be. Unfortunately, his project withered and died (there are 63 not 66 documents of the Bible). Even more unfortunate was then, instead of recognizing it was satan who deceived him, he turned his rage toward Almighty God and blamed Him.

    Mr. McGough now ferverently hates Almighty God for his delusion which led to his failure.

    Max Day, President and founder of JSH Publishing Ministries very kindly explains why Mr McGough's "Bible Wheel" can't be anything but false since it is based on 66 and not 63 documents.

    "What I have to say is purely about the "Bible Wheel" idea and nothing else. Mr. Amiel is not the first, and certainly will not be the last person, to jump to a false conclusion about the Bible based upon false presuppositions. Being smart and well-educated is no guarantee whatsoever that you will understand the Bible correctly or at all. In fact, God says in 1 Corinthians 1:17-29 that only God Himself can reveal the Scriptures to sinners, and it has absolutely nothing to do with how smart you are. I Corinthians 1:17-31"

    http://www.phibible.org/info/BibleWheel/BibleWheel.html

    Here is another website for the reader's consideration.

    http://falseprophetwatch.blogspot.com/2008/07/richard-amiel-mcgough-numerologist.html?m=1

    It is as The Lord told Daniel and me about you Mr McGough, you missed a step (63 not 66), you sought Almighty God's power not love, your plan failed, and now you hate Almighty God when it was actually satan who deceived you.

    It doesn't take a prophet to recognize the error you made going your own way. You did not seek counsel with The Lord about your plan. In the eyes of those who truly do seek to have a real and lasting relationship with Almighty God, asking Him about everything is elementary.

    Sincerely,

    Daniel and Lisa Duke

  191. Posted May 16, 2016 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    Daniel and Lisa,

    Just to let you know, your post didn’t immediately appear because it had links in it which puts it in the moderation queue.

  192. MichaelFree
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 4:03 am | Permalink

    I said:

    “Is Lisa going to keep misquoting the mystic Helen Keller while at the same time condemning mysticism?”

    It’s hard to find out exactly what Helen Keller said to her teacher, and under what circumstances, so the statement I made about “misquoting” Helen Keller might not be accurate. Someone might have told Helen that “God is love”, and then she might have said that she felt love in her darkness, something like that might have occurred, who knows. Either way Helen’s experience is definitely a subjective experience, and human beings are not always truthful, and therefore anyone who believes her or anyone who believes other people who relay the story, must do so by faith and not by facts.

    However, Swedenborgianism is definitely a different faith than Lisa and Daniel have been professing here. Swedenborgianism is definitely mysticism because the idea is to become one with God (image of God to be specific). Swedenborg believed he communicated with “spirits”, so he was “channeling” information from what he believed were intelligent supernatural beings. If Lisa and Daniel want to quote Helen as having experienced God before she could communicate then they must accept that the quote is hearsay, and they must also accept that believing in Swedenborgianism is not condemnable, or else, they are just quoting a person who they believe is in hell. So, according to Lisa and Daniel, Helen was not a friend of God. Her pet Akita was a better friend to Helen than Lisa and Daniel’s God.

  193. MichaelFree
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    Regarding Miss Sullivan’s record in Helen Keller’s autobiography, Richard said:

    “Note carefully that Rev. Brooks, the one who supposedly reported that Keller had said “I knew Him, but didn’t know His name” had already told her about “God the Father” and she showed no recognition of “Him” at that time. Despite the best efforts of both her teacher and her preacher, she said nothing that would indicate she personally “knew” God, let alone Jesus Christ, and had suddenly learned “His name.”

    As long as what Richard copied and pasted here is indeed from Helen’s autobiography, which I trust it is, then Richard is correct in that “she (Helen) said nothing (in her autobiography) that would indicate she personally “knew” God (in her darkness before she could communicate), let alone Jesus Christ, and had suddenly learned “His name” (once she learned to communicate with human beings). And this direct quote from her autobiography: “One day she said, sadly: “I am blind and deaf. That is why I cannot see God.”

    If Helen had actually reported knowing God in her darkness and later learning his name, then it seems that she would have written a whole book of its own as a whole testimony unto itself, or at least included it in her autobiography, instead of people trying to make it work when it doesn’t even say it in her own autobiography. Yet, even if she did say it word for word, it’s hearsay, and it comes from someone who believes that “God” is love, and who had many people teaching her about God.

  194. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    Michael I’m really surprised you can even count to three, you say we don’t hear God ? You also say He doesn’t speak to us ? How would I possibly have known you are a homosexual then? I’m not talking about Richard just you, Michael you have no business using God’s word since you say you don’t believe him and you hate him ! Do you not know you curse yourself? The prove is ,look how stupid you are,look how ignorant you are,look at what a fool you are, and look at your lifestyle! That pretty much says it all . The truth is there is only one truth and the bible makes it clear its not your way. Richard if you would repent,and really spend your effort seeking God for who He is,and not for your own glory, you would be the man of God he called you to be . Richard the Lord told me to give you this scripture John 6:44 No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me attracts and draws him and gives him the desire to come to Me, and [then] I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day. Richard it wasn’t God who deceived you it was satan, don’t you think if he could deceive Adam and Eve he could just as easily deceive you? Remember they saw God,they talked with God, and talked to Him daily . Richard do you think you are the only one who has ever been deceived? With your knowledge of Gods word you should be the man of God the Lord intended you too be but you are robbing yourself listening to a lie God bless you Richard, I have served the Lord 33 years and one thing I’m convinced of Proverbs24:16 For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again, But the wicked stumble in time of calamity. I’m also convinced of this, For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.Richard I really don’t expect you to receive what I’m saying,but I must not trust my thinking, I wouldn’t be where I am today if the Lord gave up on me, believe me I’ve given Him plenty of reasons Again may the Lord bless you Richard

  195. MichaelFree
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    I’m not a homosexual, and I’ve never had a question about my sexuality, therefore the demon that talks to you is just having you spew more lies you lying freak. Remember who the father of lies is you dipshit.

    Your God has no business associating with the Golden Rule you stupid ass. You and your wife’s witchcraft has been repeatedly exposed.

  196. MichaelFree
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    Have facts about Helen Keller and her mysticism got you in another rage Daniel? Are you going to keep channeling your inner petulant child, refusing to acknowledge you and your wife’s error? The thing that talks to you is a liar Daniel. That book has corrupted your mind and morals.

  197. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Michael

    If I was an in the closet homosexual I probably wouldn’t say so either but you can come clean and I quote numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? You are or you wouldn’t be so angry that I know you sure are stupid!

  198. MichaelFree
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    It’s your lying that is infuriating Daniel. You are repeatedly lying while professing to speak for God. You better believe I’m pissed you damn fool.

  199. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    I imagine you are you’ve been found out ! Don’t even have the courage to be who you are , just like satan, everything he does is in the dark he also is a coward and won’t come into the light

  200. MichaelFree
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    Why are you and your wife quoting Helen Keller as a witness to God while at the same time believing she is in hell?

    Answer that. Come out of the darkness. Come to the truth. Come to the light for all to see.

  201. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    You are delusional Michael you now became a homosexual judge for God? Impossible he finds homosexuality abhorrent exceedingly vile until you repent you will continue to be stupid and in the dark and without understanding

  202. MichaelFree
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    The more you repeat the lie the more lies God sees. Don’t you fear God Daniel? You have no facts to back up your assertion of fact. You are a liar Daniel.

    I have the fact that Helen Keller was a mystic. I have the fact that you quoted her as a witness to God. I have the fact that you believe she is in hell. I have the fact that you will not come to the light and admit your error. God sees this Daniel, and you should come clean.

  203. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    My I have never spoken of Helen Keller one time on this post she is not here to defend herself nor is the social worker or doctors Michael you can accuse me of lying but here’s a fact you can count on you are a homosexual and the liar why would you talk of a God you don’t know? I know what he told me about you just like writing on the paper you said you did, if I told you what was on it you would deny that ! You see Michael a leopard doesn’t change its spots so you being the author of lies probably isn’t going to happen either

  204. MichaelFree
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    If I misspoke and said that you quoted Helen Keller when it was your wife then I apologize. That’s called coming clean Daniel. You can relay to her the comments that I made.

    This is what Jesus said about Adam and Eve seeing and talking to God: “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”. You don’t have to interpret Jesus as being a liar, if you would grow up and realize that Adam and Eve are metaphors.

  205. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Oh Michael that is again utter stupidity! Does the bible say they were metaphors? I choose to believe My Lord ,Father,Redeemer, Savior,Friend,and God Almighty that’s how I know about you. Its funny you open your mouth and prove everything the Lord said , fool ,dimwit,liar,stupid,and God hater. Whoops I don’t want to forget homosexual also

  206. MichaelFree
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    I think Richard may be right in that you are a repressed homosexual which is why you go around accusing other people who you don’t even know of being homosexual. You keep repeating the lie and God keeps tallying them up, you should be ashamed.

    In my interpretation of the Gospels Jesus is not a liar. I love righteous Jesus. If you knew what I wrote on the paper you would know this.

  207. MichaelFree
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    If the truth itself were walking toward you and Lisa, you two would realize your nakedness and get dressed before the truth, just like Adam and Eve in the garden and just like Peter at the shore.

  208. MichaelFree
    Posted May 17, 2016 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    Jesus said he was the truth itself.

    Consider yourself and Lisa as having been brought before the truth and slain (metaphorically).

    I’m tired of talking to dimwits. If you have anything of intelligence to say I may respond, but until then, I’m done.

  209. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 18, 2016 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    This is how numerologists defend their delusions. They collect a mountain of meaningless coincidences and whenever one is proven false they change the topic and say “OK, but look at THIS one!” And when that is debunked, they say “OK, but look at this OTHER pattern.” And when that is debunked, they do it again, and again, and again.

    I have explained this to you many times now, but you refuse to learn. You need to clean out the crap from your presentation. Do you really think anyone would eat your dinner if they knew you put dog shit in it? Would anyone drink your wine if they knew you poisoned it? Would anyone believe a word you say if they can see that half or more of your claims are rank idiotic bullshit? That’s what you are doing when you ignore the truth I have shown you. You need to remove it from your collection of “proofs” if you want anyone to believe anything you say.

    I have proven your errors many times and yet you refuse to repent and believe the truth.

  210. Posted May 19, 2016 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    This is how numerologists defend their delusions. They collect a mountain of meaningless coincidences and whenever one is proven false they change the topic and say “OK, but look at THIS one!” And when that is debunked, they say “OK, but look at this OTHER pattern.” And when that is debunked, they do it again, and again, and again.

    I have explained this to you many times now, but you refuse to learn. You need to clean out the crap from your presentation. Do you really think anyone would eat your dinner if they knew you put dog shit in it? Would anyone drink your wine if they knew you poisoned it? Would anyone believe a word you say if they can see that half or more of your claims are rank idiotic bullshit? That’s what you are doing when you ignore the truth I have shown you. You need to remove it from your collection of “proofs” if you want anyone to believe anything you say.

    I have proven your errors many times and yet you refuse to repent and believe the truth.

    Daniel and Lisa,

    Why did you copy and post those words of mine without indicating where they came from? They are part of an answer I gave in response to a numerologist on my forum in this post.

    Richard

  211. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 19, 2016 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    Do you not apply what you say to yourself first before imposing it on others? Or do your words not apply to you also? Are you above being held in account to what you speak?

  212. Posted May 19, 2016 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    Do you not apply what you say to yourself first before imposing it on others? Or do your words not apply to you also? Are you above being held in account to what you speak?

    That’s exactly what I do! Why would you ask that question? The answer should be obvious to anyone who has visited this site. After spending a few years debunking Christians and exposing how they were deluding themselves with cognitive biases, I applied exactly the same standards to myself and debunked my own beliefs about the Bible Wheel. Look at what I wrote at the end of my article The Art of Rationalization: A Case Study of Christian Apologist Rich Deem:

    This topic is of keen interest to me because I was a fundamentalist Christian for about 15 years. I explain the cognitive dissonance that drove me out of the faith in my article called Why I Quit Christianity. I have left a very long trail spanning more than a decade on this site and many posts in other forums defending my work on the Bible Wheel. My next project is to apply the insights I gained by writing this article to myself. Most arguments raised against my work claimed that the Bible Wheel had no objective validity and that all my evidence was nothing but the product of cognitive biases like cherry picking, confirmation bias, pareidolia, and so forth. So now I will review those arguments and put my old responses to them through the same fire I have used to test Rich Deem’s arguments. It should prove enlightening.

    Applying the same standards to myself resulted in a series of articles in which I exposed my own errors:

  213. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 19, 2016 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    So you blame Almighty God for all the failures you see and have personally experienced yourself. Who really failed Mr. McGough? If you wanted to truly give the credit to where credit is do, then yes, please do point out all the bad that you see. Point out how man and flesh have corrupted the truth for many, many, many generations and made it what you see today, worthless. “Christian” is just a term, like cancer. “Believer” is just a word until you know the absolute of the belief. “Evidence” is just a word until it can be applied to something absolutly to the case in point and with out any doubt. Your “Faith” in what? You explained your paths or attempts to have “faith”, and no doubt I can clearly see how you came to your conclusions.
    However, let’s use a math problem for example, a really difficult one. The teacher gives you a problem to solve and tells you he has the right answer. You begin the process of solving it, you get an answer, but you can’t plug it back into the equation and have it work. So, you try again and do it another way, but again, it doesn’t work. You repeat this process several times and still no answer. You ask other students you see to help you solve the problem, but you find they know less than you. You then give up and come to the conclusion that there simply is no answer. You believe this is all in an effort to humiliate you. Your decide your teacher is a liar, there is no real answer, and he has wasted your time. You think he should have just given the answer to you in the first place and it would have made it easier for you. But you don’t consider you won’t know how to get the answer when you have to take the final exam. You don’t consider there may be a similar problem, only even harder, and you won’t know the steps to take to solve the problem. The exam will require you show your work, but you won’t know how. The teacher knows all of this is necessary for you to be successful and pass the exam, but you don’t think so. You despise the teacher and challenge him to show you the proof there even is an answer.
    So, the teacher complies to your request, and brings in one of his graduate students. The student takes the same problem you were given, shows you the steps you missed, and solves the problem it right in front of you.
    So you explain to the other student about your struggles with not being able to solve the problem. The other student tells you yes, they had the same troubles, even worse.
    You tell the student, “I tried 10 times to solve it, I spent a lot of time trying, but couldn’t get the right answer!”
    So you ask the other student, “How did you do it?”
    And the other student says simply, “I tried one more time than you did”.

  214. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 19, 2016 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    A failure is simply an attempt to find the right answer, but doesn’t work. The attempt that failed does not eliminate the right answer, it only eliminates the path that does not lead to the right answer.

  215. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 19, 2016 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    “Integrity is the grand unifying concept of all knowledge and philosophy.” Richard McGough

    Integrity is a variable unless it can be measured by an absolute constant.

    Unity is also a variable.
    “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”. Who determines who is who? Unity can be present between two with no integrity, two with a little integrity, or two with a lot of integrity.
    Is there a perfect integrity? Is there a perfect unity?
    Perfect is also a variable unless it can be measured by an absolute constant also.

    Please identify the absolute constant you are using in reference to defining and measuring these variables, otherwise we have no idea what you are relating them to.

    If you say there is no absolute constant to perfectly measure and define these variables, then you have only your opinion of them to offer and nothing more.

  216. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 19, 2016 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    ” In putting into perspective the degree of moral violation committed by these morally imperfect men: the Hebrew patriarchs Abraham lied, ” a response by BobL posted in “Reasons to reject or not reject the Christian faith”

    Abraham did not lie about Sarah. No where do we find Almighty God correcting him for saying Sarah was his sister. Sarah was his sister, both in flesh and also in spirit.

    Jesus said in Matthew 12:
    49 And stretching out His hand toward [not only the twelve disciples but all] His adherents, He said, Here are My mother and My brothers.
    50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother!

    It was Almighty God who revealed to Abimelech his error. He should have not touched Sarah at all. It was The Lord Who warned Abraham of Abimelech’s intentions for him and Sarah.

    A prophet is in constant communication with Almighty God, even Abraham’s thoughts were in unity with Almighty God’s in this account.

    1 Chronicles 16: 19
    19 When they were but few, even a very few, and only temporary residents and strangers in it,
    20 When they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people,
    21 He allowed no man to do them wrong; yes, He reproved kings for their sakes,
    22 Saying, Touch not My anointed, and do My prophets no harm.

    Psalm 105: 15
    12 When they were but a few men in number, in fact, very few, and were temporary residents and strangers in it,
    13 When they went from one nation to another, from one kingdom to another people,
    14 He allowed no man to do them wrong; in fact, He reproved kings for their sakes,
    15 Saying, Touch not My anointed, and do My prophets no harm.

    The Lord gives understanding to Abimelech
    Genesis 20:
    6 Then God said to him in the dream, Yes, I know you did this in the integrity of your heart, for it was I Who kept you back and spared you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not give you occasion to touch her.
    7 So now restore to the man his wife, for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you will live. But if you do not restore her [to him], know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours.
    8 So Abimelech rose early in the morning and called all his servants and told them all these things; and the men were exceedingly filled with reverence and fear.
    9 Then Abimelech called Abraham and said to him, What have you done to us? And how have I offended you that you have brought on me and my kingdom a great sin? You have done to me what ought not to be done [to anyone].
    10 And Abimelech said to Abraham, What did you see [in us] that [justified] you in doing such a thing as this?
    11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely there is no reverence or fear of God at all in this place, and they will slay me because of my wife.
    12 But truly, she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father but not of my mother; and she became my wife.

  217. Posted May 19, 2016 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Integrity is a variable unless it can be measured by an absolute constant.

    I don’t know what you mean, and I am not so sure you know either. Please give me a specific example of how integrity could be a “variable” and what could serve as an “absolute constant” to measure it.

  218. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 19, 2016 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Are you suggesting there are no varying degrees of integrity? If I say that you have no integrity because you lie about my Father in Heaven and wrongfully blame Him for your mistake, you would say that it was my opinion.

    If an insurance company charges you a higher rate for auto insurance based on your accident and bad credit. You may not agree with them due to the fact the officer wrongfully ticketed you because he believed the woman’s lie and not your truth of the accident. You are going through a divorce and your credit suffered a bit. The insurance company could believe you and give you “grace” and lower your premium to a more affordable rate, or the agent could decide he doesn’t like the sound of your voice and charge you the premium based on the accident and credit score. The agent also could base his reason for charging you the higher premium based on the company’s prior quarterly profit loss they need to make up.
    To make matters worse, you find out that your insurance company gave your neighbor a lower rate because they removed his at fault accident thanks to his sister who works as an agent for the company.

    The insurance company prides itself on its 60 years worth of providing consumers a quality product and maintains a level of integrity above all other similar companies.

    In 2002, the interdenominational Christian school I volunteered at in Sheridan, Wyoming was recognized for 20 years of excellence by the association who produces the national Stanford Achievement Test. The student’s test scores were monitored and found to be consistently 2 to 21/2 years above current grade level for 20 years. They chose the school to test their new “pilot” test for free. The pilot test’s format was horrid (at best).
    The Wyoming Superintendent of Public Instruction called our principal who then directed her call to me. The superintendent asked me what we did that they could do to improve the quality of education they provided. She was also interested in how we had no disciplinary problems. Wyoming, at the time, spent $13,900 per student per year, yet ranked 13th from the bottom in proficiency in the nation. I told her the public system had no standard or consistency in curriculum development. Teachers were allowed to choose their own curriculum and one teacher to the next could not count on that teacher covering all material needed to make a successful progression in the student. I also told her that she really couldn’t do all that we did because we put Almighty God in the center of everything we did and everything was centered around Him. Our teachers, principal, board members and curriculum were Christ-centered, the students were encouraged in the way of The Lord, disciplined and discipled in the way of The Lord. She said that no, the public schools couldn’t do that.
    I’m sure the Wyoming office of public instruction believes in a version of a standard of integrity (or variable of it) they also may have a type (or variable) of unity between parents, students, and teachers, and their philosophy of discipline is also a variable. The fact that God Almighty can not be in the center of public education all their conduct with education didn’t matter to the Standard Achievement Test, the association is only interested in test results.

  219. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 19, 2016 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    So Mr. McGough,

    What constant do you base your variable of integrity on?

  220. Posted May 19, 2016 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    Are you suggesting there are no varying degrees of integrity?

    No, that’s not what I’m saying. It is obvious that integrity can be broken to any number of degrees. The word has two fundamental meanings, as I explain in my article that you cited, On Integrity as the Highest Value:

    INTEGRITY:
    1) The state of being whole, undivided, perfect in composition; unity, wholeness, completeness.
    2) The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.

    There is good reason the word “integrity” means both “wholeness” and “moral soundness.” Morality flows from the native integrity of the self. Integrity is the ontology of morality.

    There is no need for an external “standard” for integrity because integrity is DEFINED by what a thing is. You really should read my article before trying to critique it.

    If I say that you have no integrity because you lie about my Father in Heaven and wrongfully blame Him for your mistake, you would say that it was my opinion.

    If you said that, it would reveal that you don’t have a proper understanding of the words “integrity” and “lie.”

    I speak in the integrity of my heart and mind when I say that I don’t blame your god for anything because I sincerely do not believe he exists. It is impossible to blame a non-existent being for anything.

    If you care about your integrity at all, you will correct the false assertions you have made about me. It is fundamentally dishonest and irrational to accuse me of things like “homosexual tendencies” (not that there’s anything wrong with being gay, it’s just not true in my case) merely because that’s how you interpret your prefered religious text. By that standard, a Muslim would be justified in calling YOU a liar for denying that Allah is the true God and Muhammad is his messenger.

    How is it possible you could fail to understand such a basic fact? You cannot justify accusing others of specific crimes merely because that’s how you interpret your scripture!

    The insurance company prides itself on its 60 years worth of providing consumers a quality product and maintains a level of integrity above all other similar companies.

    This touches the second definition of integrity. Being true to your word. Doing what you say you will do. This is moral integrity. It is closely related to the first definition because being true to your word means that there is a “wholeness” and a “coherence” and a UNITY between your words and actions. Therefore, once again we see that there is no need for an “external standard” to define integrity or morality. Integrity is the UNITY of the self.

    I also told her that she really couldn’t do all that we did because we put Almighty God in the center of everything we did and everything was centered around Him. Our teachers, principal, board members and curriculum were Christ-centered, the students were encouraged in the way of The Lord, disciplined and discipled in the way of The Lord. She said that no, the public schools couldn’t do that.
    I’m sure the Wyoming office of public instruction believes in a version of a standard of integrity (or variable of it) they also may have a type (or variable) of unity between parents, students, and teachers, and their philosophy of discipline is also a variable.

    There you go. You seem to be getting the idea. The “standard of integrity” is UNITY. It is not in any way an “external standard.”

    The fact that you found an external standard looks to me like idolatry around the god of your cult. Other cults use the same words as you but have totally different beliefs about the nature of their idol/god. So you get Catholics who “unite” around their dogmas and you get ten thousand varieties of Protestants and all the crazy cults like JWs and Mormons, not to mention all the other religions like Islam, Hinduism, etc., etc., etc. The one thing they all have in common is that dogmatic religions tend to destroy the integrity of believers by forcing them to rationalize and pervert truth in service of the dogmas of their cult.

    That’s the real connection between dogmatic religion and integrity. They are antithetical. The one tends to destroy the other. It goes both ways.

  221. Posted May 19, 2016 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    So Mr. McGough,

    What constant do you base your variable of integrity on?

    The “constant” is UNITY, like the Number One. Integrity is its own “constant.”

  222. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    Lol
    Ok, Mr. McGough,

    I get it, you don’t want to serve Almighty God, you want to be Him, same as satan. Conceit, vanity, and vain glory. Pride, disdain, and haughtiness towards others.

    Well, it’s not like you will be able to stand before The Lord Jesus and have any real excuse for the way you are now.
    “The earth is mine, and all it contains”, says The Lord.

    So, with that being said, The Lord can use anything on this earth and even all there is today to explain things. Call it the meaning of life, call it the key to the kingdom, call it what ever you want to. It’s quite simple actually a child could understand it : ) with you, Mr. McGough, I honestly gave it my best shot.

    Speaking of shot. As a child, you were taken to the nurse for your inoculations. This procedure of introducing a small amount of a virus or disease into your body and, in turn, your body developed an immunity to it to keep you from getting the full-blown condition. So the nurse says, “This will only hurt for a second”. The benefits of the inoculation far outweigh the pain of the injection.
    So, think of the flesh of satan as the disease or virus. You were supposed to realize your spirit was to fight against the flesh, The Lord Jesus died for all sin and cleansed us from all unrighteousness, and gave us also His Spirit (like a perfect booster shot) and the product of which was we were supposed to be like Him. After all people today have way more than Abraham or even Noah. We have all the testimony of those before us, The Word–The Lord Jesus and also His Spirit, and a written testimony as well (Bible). “To whom much is given much is required”. You were supposed to be a servant like The Lord Jesus said.
    “This life is like a vapor” like a shot, it only hurts for a second. This life is no life, this life a test. So who would withstand and conquer the flesh? The Lord knew who would and who wouldn’t. (He knows all things) We can’t have any sin infecting Heaven, that’s why people were supposed to get it right here on earth.
    So what has this world done with The Lord’s Good Gifts? The world has traded the incorruptible for the corruptible. Flesh, the disease Petri dish for satan. Flesh, the world loves it, embraces it and revels in it, like swine in mud. Disgusting. Everywhere you look today the loaf is bursting with leaven. And yes, children left to themselves for 2000 years have no doubt had a great time (so they think). Like The Lord Jesus said it would “it would be as in the day of Noah”. No one takes anything seriously, no one is paying attention. Like one giant Burger King, “Have it your way”.
    So, it’s close to the big “wake up call” that The Lord told Daniel about that indeed caused him a great amount of grieving.

    Of course, with past events you read about in the Bible, there is always a prophet on the scene (a forerunner) to warn the people or announce to the people first. How quickly they forget!
    So, The Great Tribulation will, no doubt, change the people’s perception of things : ) Seeing is believing, so they say.
    Like explosives used to put out an oil well fire. Or when the children of Israel complained about the manna from Heaven and wanted eat the flesh of earth instead, so Almighty God dumped a ton of flesh on them.
    The people choose the flesh? It’s worse than Sodom these days. Fine, they will get their fill. This will be the final scene, Almighty God’s last act of grace. So, in the event of no food and no water, people will have a clearer choice in a matter of days. “Many will purify themselves and the wicked will do wickedly”. What will people eat?
    Of course we’ve had a preview in earlier days of great famine (2 Kings 6).

    What will people do to preserve their flesh during this time of great tribulation? I shutter to think about it.
    The Lord takes no pleasure in this, the people have brought it on themselves, just like He knew they would.
    No doubt, many will search the scriptures during this time. All the “rapture” believers will realize they’ve been lied to. The Catholic club members will also bypass their priest for answers and go directly to The Lord. The mystics and zen weirdos will come face to face with their “karma”, the self-professed high and mighty “thinkers” will see how utterly stupid they were (not to mention any names).
    So the outcome of this event will bring purification and many will be.

    I might be interested to know how you knew there hasn’t been any real prophets in about 2000 years.

    My Brother Daniel had it in his heart to see every knee bow and every tongue confess, Philippians 2: 10-(11), (Romans 14: (11)
    The test he was given was so much worse than yours you couldn’t have walked a day in it.

    my desire in this life was to be the best believer in Almighty God that there ever was : )

    The only reward of lasting value? Takes only 7 words to explain, but the reward will be the greatest reward ever given! To see The Lord Jesus smile and say,

    “Well done my good and faithful servant”.

    Will INDEED make it all worth it !!! Oh yes it will !!!

    You know, that Neo guy in the Matrix movie was interesting, I wonder where they got the idea for that movie?

    Oh, as far as any correlations between Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1, you should really just focus on the word “beginning” first. “In the beginning (the beginning of this space in eternity called time) and then come to the conclusion that as with any beginning, there is an end. Word, Jesus, with emphasis on began and complete or “finish”. What He began He will finish, so we have no doubt about His Perfect Integrity to do all that He said He would do and fully complete ALL things. Almighty God purposed to have a forever family. And this is how The Eternal Almighty God chose to do it.

    Daniel and I like putting together 1000 piece puzzles, we like the scenery ones. Sorting all the pieces and putting them together to make the beautiful picture.

    Mr. Magoo was a kind of a funny cartoon. I believe you were aptly named, but there is nothing funny about you Mr. McGough.

  223. MichaelFree
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Righteous Jesus = bring liars, thieves, and doers of violence before the truth and slay them metaphorically. Righteous Jesus is “the truth”.

    Unrighteous Jesus = bring simple non-believers, never mind if they aren’t liars, thieves, and doers of violence before Jesus the person and literally slay them, literally do violence to them, if not on Earth, at least in the afterlife. Unrighteous Jesus is “the lie”.

    The Gospels are pure goodness and pure evil.

    The murderer in the Gospels uses the Golden Rule, which everyone learns if they have siblings or friends growing up as children, in other words, it’s natural, in order to lure the children to the murderer.

    “Love one another”, yeah right, you hypocrite.

    We’re free to believe whatever we want to believe in life.

  224. Posted May 20, 2016 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    I get it, you don’t want to serve Almighty God, you want to be Him, same as satan. Conceit, vanity, and vain glory. Pride, disdain, and haughtiness towards others.

    Ha! If anyone around here were like “satan” it would be you two raving lunatics. You spew out an endless stream of lies, slander, and false accusations. I’ve proven your lies and you rarely even try to defend yourselves. You usually just change the subject and spew out yet more lies. Nothing could be more pathetic, or absurd.

    And speaking of “conceit, vanity, vainglory, and pride” – you describe yourselves with precision. Who could be more arrogant than two ignorant fools like you who fancy yourselves to be the Two Witnesses of Revelation? LOL

  225. MichaelFree
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Many people who believe that Jesus is the Messiah even “condemn one another” simply because their denomination of Christianity differs. This is further proof that Christianity is deeply ill.

    Righteous Jesus said that John the Baptist preached the Kingdom of God. I love John the Baptist, read Luke, he said “do no violence”, “do not steal”, and “do not lie”. It’s so simple that children learn it already. It’s only when we become adults that many of us think we’re smarter than pure goodness, and invent evil ways to become “special people”.

  226. Posted May 20, 2016 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    I might be interested to know how you knew there hasn’t been any real prophets in about 2000 years.

    How long will you continue spewing absurdities? Is it impossible for you to speak truth? I never said I “knew” that there have not been any prophets in the last 2000 years.

    But I do say that I have not seen any evidence that suggests there has been.

  227. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    What could be more cruel than a son who shames his mother by accusing her of killing herself, when in fact, she did not?

  228. MichaelFree
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    “What could be more cruel than a son who shames his mother by accusing her of killing herself, when in fact, she did not?”

    How about accusing people who do kill themselves of going to hell for it to be tortured for eternity.

  229. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    I’ve never done that Mr. “Free”. I know for a fact that not all suicide victims go to hell. My husband agrees with me.
    We do not advocate suicide, but some are proven accidents.
    I have heard of people taking wrong medication because of a pharmacy error and the person had a psychotic episode and killed themselves.

    I had a friend who found out he had cancer but they didn’t learn of it until the autopsy. I had just stopped by his business the week prior and asked him if everything was ok. He was always gracious and kind. his children attended the Christian school where I volunteered. His wife was wonderful. I believe he shot himself because he thought cancer would cause his family much grief and financial hardship. I believe he wanted to spare them of all of that.
    Again, I’m not an advocate of suicide, but I don’t believe all of them end up in hell.

  230. MichaelFree
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Daniel and Lisa Duke,

    “I’ve never done that Mr. “Free”.”

    This makes me happy Lisa. I’m not an advocate of suicide either, but rather I’m an advocate of life. I feel extreme sympathy and mercy for people who commit suicide.

    My name is Michael but my last name is not “Free”, but rather it’s a pseudonym, and I use it because I value my personal privacy. So I’m “free” to speak my mind without fear of personal or professional reprisal, as best as I can anyway. On Earth I don’t feel “free”, but one day I hope this changes.

  231. MichaelFree
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Daniel and Lisa Duke,

    Also, although I’ve called you two “two dimwits”, I don’t think that you’re stupid, I just know that your faith has perverted facts of life. Faith does not equal stupidity.

    I actually think that you two are probably really good people.

  232. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Yes Michael, so do I, very sorry for them. That’s why I was very involved in teaching children and youth the real way of The Lord. For years people asked me if I was a “Christian” I stopped feeling guilty for thinking no, I’m not the same as those kind of Christian.
    I can’t help what happened to Helen Keller when she got older. I simply wanted to point out that when she was very scared in her blindness and darkness I believe The Lord comforted her.
    I know because he did the same thing for Daniel when he was taken in the basement and brutally beaten every day by his multi-million dollar step-father. He was the worst case of child abuse in Canada. The monster was sentenced to 3 consecutive life sentences. His step-father’s money helped him win an appeal and he fled the country.
    My husband Daniel also attempted suicide two times, the first he was dead for 20 minutes, the second one The Lord Jesus stopped him from driving off the high-5 in Dallas.
    You must forgive Daniel for saying you are in homosexuality. He was provoked by your comments calling Jesus a “prick” why would you say such a thing Michael? I suppose that was the meanest thing Daniel could think of to call you back.
    Daniel doesn’t have a mean bone in his body. A man who tries to “revive” a drown little gecko he found in the pool is not evil. He can’t stand to look at anything that has died, baby birds or anything small. Rats are a different story though.

  233. MichaelFree
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Lisa and Daniel Duke,

    “I can’t help what happened (Swedenborgianism) to Helen Keller when she got older. I simply wanted to point out that when she was very scared in her blindness and darkness I believe The Lord comforted her.”

    Come on already, someone’s choice of religion is not a determinate of whether or not they are a good person or not. Even evil and lost people need mercy and compassion and rehabilitation, but we don’t have to put up with their shit in life either.

    “I know because he did the same thing for Daniel when he was taken in the basement and brutally beaten every day by his multi-million dollar step-father. He was the worst case of child abuse in Canada. The monster was sentenced to 3 consecutive life sentences. His step-father’s money helped him win an appeal and he fled the country.”

    Tell Daniel that I like righteous Jesus who said to not harm children and who said to do no violence.

    “My husband Daniel also attempted suicide two times, the first he was dead for 20 minutes, the second one The Lord Jesus stopped him from driving off the high-5 in Dallas.”

    I’m so sorry about the suicide attempt. His faith in Jesus stopping him from killing himself is awesome.

    “You must forgive Daniel for saying you are in homosexuality.”

    Tell him I forgive him, and that I’m really not a homosexual, but that I also have no problem with homosexuals. I fundamentally disagree with a lot of the politics of some homosexuals though. Politics and homosexuality are two different things. To me homosexuals have always been with us and will always be with us, and when we make peace with them we make peace with God. I like what some native Americans had to about “two spirit people”.

    “He was provoked by your comments calling Jesus a “prick” why would you say such a thing Michael? I suppose that was the meanest thing Daniel could think of to call you back.”

    I actually believe that Jesus might be real and might be the Messiah, the Son of God, and I have good reason to believe so, so don’t get me wrong. You see I was raised an agnostic/atheist in the San Francisco Bay Area in the East Bay. Around here my “neighbors” are truly from all walks of life and I love it very much. My city is a city of peace. “Evil prick Jesus” is the one that many Christians profess, they tell me that my dead atheist father is in hell being tortured. My dad was a good man and a good father. Do you know how bad it feels to read the Gospels and to love Jesus and to profess his innocence and then to have many of his followers tell me that my dad is being tortured by a righteous God, and they use Jesus’ words to justify their evil assertions? It feels horrible. Why should I love Jesus when millions if not billions of his followers speak such evil things? I read the Gospels to find a good path in life and to be a better person, and not to be evil and condemn my own father, or my mother, or my brothers, or any Christian or non-Christian for that matter, you see, I was looking for a way to treat them all better.

    “A man who tries to “revive” a drown little gecko he found in the pool is not evil.”

    No he’s not evil, that’s an awesome thing to do.

  234. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Michael I apologize for my indignation,and because of it calling you names. There is not a good enough reason,I can think of a good enough reason for trying to belittle someone,so I do ask for your forgiveness? Michael you may think my vision is clouded by my faith but on the contrary, my vision has never been more clear. Michael I’ve seen and lived through some things I’m sure would turn your stomach,but because of The Lords mercy and faithfulness and goodness I can testify today it is in no way perverted. Michael I make no excuses for myself I’m not where I want to be (yet) but I press on knowing there is just not a good enough reason to hate The Lord . Michael because you don’t have the answers, doesn’t mean God is how you see him. If there was ever a person that I know of,that would have a reason to hate and distrust The Lord, it would be me. Does that make me special? Heavens No ! I told you I’m the least! Michael it’s taken me more than 33 + years to get where I am and believe me I still struggle, but I am confident to the point of giving up my life for the sake of Jesus the Lord as he see’s fit . I wish Michael I could actually talk to you, because I know for a fact the way you feel is caused by not knowing the real truth,I’m not talking about a part truth, you may have heard in a church somewhere,I’m talking about what the preacher won’t say for the sake of his collection plates. I told you Michael I gain nothing lying to you ,I only know the truth,and if I told you I learned it by the school of hard knocks, well that would be a lie also . I learned some hard lessons because of my own pride, rebellion, and lifestyle but Michael the ones closest to me I learned from my wonderful Savior . I believe Michael if you ever met my wife or me you would not feel the way you do about the Lord,unfortunately Michael this life is no life at all, but you already know if you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for anything, we all have an advisary and it’s not the Lord , God bless you Michael, I know I could answer a lot of your questions, given the chance , most people just don’t really like the truth, if they are being completely honest

    Sincerely Daniel

  235. Posted May 20, 2016 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    I told you I’m the least!

    It is the proudest of men who claims to be the least, because that’s what was said of John the Baptist whom Jesus described as the “greatest of those born of women.” So in effect, you are claiming to be greater than John the Baptist. And this is the impression I got from an email sent by Lisa. She claimed you suffered more than anyone, second only to Jesus Christ himself. And then you two claim that you are the Two Witness of Revelation! There appears to be no limit to your pride and arrogance.

  236. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Michael who are these so called Christian people who said your father is in hell,are probably going to be there themselves, who made them God? My bible says,men look at the outward appearance of men, but God looks at the heart of a man! Someone once told me they didn’t believe in the bible because they didn’t believe the story of Jonah, I replied well when I get to heaven I’ll ask him, the man replied, what if he’s not there? I replied, then you can ask him !

  237. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    Strong is not proud Mr. McGough

    My husband is very strong, like the real Jesus.

    And also like your dear mother

  238. Posted May 20, 2016 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    I can’t help what happened to Helen Keller when she got older. I simply wanted to point out that when she was very scared in her blindness and darkness I believe The Lord comforted her.

    The problem is that there is no basis for your belief. She never wrote a word about the Lord Jesus Christ comforting her when she was a child suffering in darkness and silence. On the contrary, she explicitly said she had no comfort like that at all. Your beliefs are false. That’s your error. You need to admit the truth.

  239. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Actually Mr. McGough, Jesus said the least would be greater—–IN FAITH ! Not power

    Luke 7:28

    28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

  240. MichaelFree
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    Daniel,

    You’re a good man Daniel.

    I’m not changing from my stated position though, because I can’t, and because I’d have it no other way.

    I believe that just as we were all born on Earth so shall we all go to Heaven, and that only a God like this can truly be honorable and can truly change people’s behavior here on Earth. When the Lord is real, merciful and non-violent, and not vengeful and violent, the sinner who continues to lie, steal, and do violence can’t do so with a smirk on their face, but rather a gut wrenching feeling of dishonor, real dishonor, that a merciful God knows their sin and wants nothing more for them but that they should have a good and happy life and that they should thus treat other people to the same.

    Take care.

  241. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Strong is not proud Mr. McGough

    My husband is very strong, like the real Jesus.

    And also like your dear mother

    Your words are terribly confused. I never said anything about your husband’s strength. He could be as strong as Samson or as weak as a flea for all I know. I was talking about his pride of declaring himself to be “the least” which makes him greater than John the Baptist which is a very arrogant thing to say, not to mention claiming that you two are the Two Witnesses of Revelation!

    And you also err about my mother. I haven’t said anything about my mother. You are confusing me with L67 from this post in my forum.

  242. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    You need to admit you don’t have the understanding of scripture that you think you do.
    You don’t have the understanding of love either, but your mother did, and her prayers for you matter.

  243. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Your mother never prayed for you Mr McGough?

    Well someone did

  244. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Actually Mr. McGough, Jesus said the least would be greater—–IN FAITH ! Not power

    Luke 7:28

    28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

    The verse doesn’t say anything about “greater in faith” and I didn’t say anything about “greater in power.” I simply noted that it is arrogant to exalt Daniel above John the Baptist by claiming he is “the least” who has suffered more than anyone except Jesus Christ. Pride oozes from your posts. You think you are the Two Witnesses of Revelation!

  245. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Your mother never prayed for you Mr McGough?

    what are you babbling about? I haven’t said anything about my mother. I didn’t say she didn’t pray for me. It was L67 who talked about the death of his mother.

  246. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    No Richard, I know my sin, I also asked the Lord, who should I say I am,he told me you are the least. Richard,Jesus was letting me know he concerns himself even with me ! His word says as you have done it unto the least of these you have done it unto him.you see Richard the spirit searches all things even the depths of God ! I seek the Lord continually,and I know I hear him ! He said his sheep would know his voice,it’s the only way to not be decieved, you should try it I know it would help you tons.

  247. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    I like to encourage people and help.

    So does Daniel

    Who is “great” in Heaven? What do you mean by “great”?

  248. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    You need to admit you don’t have the understanding of scripture that you think you do.

    You speak in empty generalities. If you disagree with something I have said about the Bible, you are free to explain why. Merely asserting that I “don’t have the understanding of scripture” that you think I think I do is meaningless bullshit. And worse, it is grossly arrogant for you to pretend to know what I think I understand. What are you, PSYCHIC?

    You don’t have the understanding of love either, but your mother did, and her prayers for you matter.

    What are you babbling about? I haven’t said anything about my mother. And who are you to judge if others have love? You exalt yourself above the throne of God and look down in judgment on people you don’t even know.

  249. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    When did Jesus say the least would be “exulted” ?

    Your understanding of scripture makes no sense

  250. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    I like to encourage people and help.

    Spewing lies and unfounded false judgments is not accurately described as “encouraging people and helping.”

  251. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    How do you know what Daniel has suffered?

    Are you psychic or just think you are all-knowing ??

  252. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    Your understanding of scripture makes no sense

    It appears that nothing makes any sense to you.

  253. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    Jesus never said the least would be EXULTED!!

    That’s not true

  254. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    How do you know what Daniel has suffered?

    I made no such claim. Why do you constantly spew out such absurdities?

    Are you psychic or just think you are all-knowing ??

    Are you insane? Now you are mimicking my words but without any meaning. You are the one who has been saying things about me that you don’t know and can’t justify. I have not said anything about you that would justify your question.

  255. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Michael I guess you’re right you can’t change your position that is a very honest statement! None of us are able to change our position and that is why we so desperately needed a savior! We are incapable of anything in ourselves, it is only of The Lords mercy we are able to change through his spirit,his calling, his steadfast Love the bible says we love Him because he first loved us God bless you Michael

  256. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    You don’t make sense Mr McGough

    You are all about power and thinking you know EVERYTHING

    you misinterpret scripture! You are the problem!

    You are like the all the others

    That’s why people don’t believe correctly

    Do you also believe all people who commit suicide go to hell?

    You never said a word about that!

  257. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    You can’t keep anything straight Mr McGough

  258. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    I’m mimicking your words?

    Why don’t you go back and re-read what you said

    Who claimed to “exult” themselves above John the baptizer??

  259. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    “I simply noted that it is arrogant to exalt Daniel above John the Baptist by claiming he is “the least” who has suffered more than anyone except Jesus” Richard McGough

    HOW DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH DANIEL HAS SUFFERED???

  260. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    Are you an eye-witness to his whole life Mr McGough???

  261. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    I’m mimicking your words?

    Why don’t you go back and re-read what you said

    Who claimed to “exult” themselves above John the baptizer??

    You need to reread what YOU said. You are the one who introduced the word “exulted” in this discussion. I never used that word. And this is rather humorous, because I thought it was a simple typo, but now I see that you apparently don’t understand the difference between “exult” and “exalt.”

  262. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    HOW DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH DANIEL HAS SUFFERED???

    I made no claim about knowing how much Daniel suffered. You are the ones making the claim that Daniel suffered more than anyone, second only to Jesus Christ. Right? You did say that? Please correct me if I am wrong.

  263. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Why don’t you just admit you don’t know everything about scripture or you will exult yourself above John!

  264. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    You are all about power and thinking you know EVERYTHING

    Please quote something I’ve written that justifies your accusation or apologise for lying about me.

    If you can’t do that, everyone will see you for what you are – an unrepentant liar.

  265. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    Why don’t you just admit you don’t know everything about scripture or you will exult yourself above John!

    You need to admit that you don’t know the difference between “exult” and “exalt.”

    And of course I admit that I don’t know everything about scripture. Never said I did. Your comments are insane.

  266. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    Richard you didn’t respond to what I stated are you speaking for me? How is it that someone who hates God uses his word like you do? I thought you don’t believe it? So if you are quoting something you don’t believe doesn’t that make you completely unbelievable? You tell me how it is Richard? You talk in circles did you ever quit doing drugs? You seem like you are still way out there?

  267. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    John 21: 24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.

    25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written.

  268. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    Why don’t you just admit you don’t know everything about scripture or you will exult yourself above John!

    You really need to learn the difference between exult and exalt. Here ya go:

    EXULT: show or feel elation or jubilation, especially as the result of a success.

    EXALT: raise to a higher rank or a position of greater power.

  269. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    If you don’t have a proper understanding of scripture, and you obviously don’t, so you are no authority on Almighty God or what scripture says.

    You had your own version of being something religious and nothing more

    You simply wanted to “Exalt” yourself in a religion

    Now who is being distracted? Correcting my spelling?

  270. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    Richard you didn’t respond to what I stated are you speaking for me?

    When have I ever spoken for you?

    How is it that someone who hates God uses his word like you do? I thought you don’t believe it? So if you are quoting something you don’t believe doesn’t that make you completely unbelievable?

    I don’t “hate God” because it is impossible to hate something that doesn’t exist.

    The fact that I quote a book doesn’t mean that I believe what it says. If I were debating a Muslim, I would quote the Quran to make a point.

    You tell me how it is Richard? You talk in circles did you ever quit doing drugs? You seem like you are still way out there?

    Your confusion is coming from your own mind. You cannot follow basic discourse. You constantly make false assumptions and false assertions. You get confused about who is speaking, as when you confused me with L67 (who is the one who spoke of his mother dying). I explained that many times now and you still have not admitted your mistake.

  271. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    Now we have the truth, you were your own religion that you accuse others of but you really didn’t have the truth either

    Just admit it

  272. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    Now who is being distracted? Correcting my spelling?

    You repeated the same error at least three times, so I knew it wasn’t a typo. And you ignored me when I brought it to your attention, so I decided to repeat it until you showed some understanding. Mission accomplished.

  273. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    I don’t get it Richard I’ve posted two times now that you have failed to answer? Lisa said nothing about me suffering more than anyone but Christ that is your words go back and read the post ! Your interpretation of a simple conversation is inaccurate which would explain your misinterpretation of scripture also.

  274. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Your bible wheel was flawed from the beginning, so you made up a new religion just like everyone else

  275. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Now we have the truth, you were your own religion that you accuse others of but you really didn’t have the truth either

    Just admit it

    You really like giving orders, don’t you? I have “admitted” that my former beliefs were delusional a thousand times. I’ve written articles about it. I’ve plasterd “DEBUNKED” all over my website. How the hell can you be so freaking arrogant as to tell me to do what I’ve been doing for years?

    The sad thing is that you are still in your delusion and you refuse to admit it. You have made up your own religion. You can’t even say that you agree with any other version of Christianity on the planet! You’ve made your own cult with two members and fancy yourself the Two Witnesses of Revelation. In my deepest delusions about the Bible Wheel “proving” the Bible, I was never as nutty as you.

  276. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    You are nothing but a bully Mr. McGough

    You were no representation of Almighty God ever!

    You are like all those others who seek people to admire them.

    You want people to think there is no God but you yourself no nothing about Him!

  277. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Your bible wheel was flawed from the beginning, so you made up a new religion just like everyone else

    And you are included with everyone else, of course. You have invented your own version of Christianity.

    As for it being “flawed from the beginning” – you don’t have a clue what you are babbling about, but it’s not worth debating since I don’t believe it anymore and you don’t know how to discuss anything rationally.

  278. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    You didn’t admit the truth that you really didn’t know anything about Almighty God or scripture because you still act like you do

    And you say I like to be “in charge” good grief, look at yourself Mr. McGough

  279. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    You failed to answer the question Richsrd ! You say God doesn’t exist? Show me evidence! Your flywheel is bullshit so try again! I’m making no assumptions simply asking you questions you fail to answer you can go back all the way to the beginning of this post and you’ve said nothing to prove or disprove anything! Just the same hateful rhetoric

  280. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    We don’t have a “religion”

    I already told you that!

    Do you suffer from a mental block?

  281. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    James talks about men like you Richard swayed by every wind of doctrine unstable in all your ways fits you perfectly by your own admission.

  282. Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    You are nothing but a bully Mr. McGough

    Ha! More false accusations. You came here and began spewing endless lies about me being a “liar and cheater with homosexual tendencies” because that’s what you think the Bible says about anyone who disagrees with your cult. So who is the bully? LOL

    You were no representation of Almighty God ever!

    That’s not what you would say if I were still preaching God, Jesus, and the Bible!

    You are like all those others who seek people to admire them.

    Bullshit. What person would debunk himself in public if he wanted to be admired?

    You are totally hung up on arrogance because that’s what defines you. This is pretty obvious because only the arrogant could imagine themselves to be the Two Witnesses of Revelation.

    You want people to think there is no God but you yourself no nothing about Him!

    I want people to know the truth because that’s the kind of world I want to live in. Your god is not true and believe in him tends to corrupt the minds and morals of believers. Just look at what it has done to you! Look at the lies and slander you spewed out against me. You have convicted yourselves with your own words.

  283. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    We haven’t started any new “religion”

    I already told you that also

    You might want to have a doctor check your short term memory loss.

    “Religion” is worthless

    It hurts people

  284. Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    We don’t have a “religion”

    I already told you that!

    Do you suffer from a mental block?

    The fact that you don’t like to call your religion a religion doesn’t mean it ain’t a religion.

    You are the one with the mental block. If you disagree, all you need to do is explain how your beliefs about God, Jesus, and the Bible are different from all the other religions that believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible. Why are your beliefs not a religion when everyone else with similar beliefs is a religion.

    What do you think the word “religion” means? What is Christianity called a religion? Why would anyone say that your beliefs are not a religion?

  285. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    “That’s not what you would say if I were still preaching God, Jesus, and the Bible!”

    Oh yes it is, and we’ve told plenty of so-called pastors and fake “believers” the same

    So you are wrong again

  286. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    And false prophets also : )

  287. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    You failed to answer the question Richsrd ! You say God doesn’t exist? Show me evidence! Your flywheel is bullshit so try again! I’m making no assumptions simply asking you questions you fail to answer you can go back all the way to the beginning of this post and you’ve said nothing to prove or disprove anything! Just the same hateful rhetoric

  288. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    “The fact that you don’t like to call your religion a religion doesn’t mean it ain’t a religion.”

    The fact that you don’t like to call your religion a religion doesn’t mean it ISN’T a religion.

    It isn’t a “religion”

    It’s a way of living and a way of life

    No religion required.

    Is your Athesim a religion?

  289. Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    You didn’t admit the truth that you really didn’t know anything about Almighty God or scripture because you still act like you do

    I can’t “admit” that because it’s not true. I studied the Bible in depth for many years. I learned Greek and Hebrew so I could study it in its original languages. I don’t claim to know “everything” by any means, but I cannot lie and say “I don’t know anything” about it.

    Your constant assertion of my total ignorance reveals that you don’t give a damn about truth. You make claims about things you have no way of knowing that directly contradict demonstrable facts.

  290. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Is the relationship with your wife a “religion”?

  291. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    You come up with a bogus wheel and WE know nothing about truth?

  292. Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    “That’s not what you would say if I were still preaching God, Jesus, and the Bible!”

    Oh yes it is, and we’ve told plenty of so-called pastors and fake “believers” the same

    So you are wrong again

    Then why did you say this when you first contacted me?

    I found your site, not by accident, but The Lord led me to look for the significance and representation of how The Lord uses numbers and what they mean. Your site was a wealth of information! Wow. You had done a lot of work for me! Ha! You made it easy.

  293. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    Hate to break the news to you Richard but you never preached Christ,God,or the bible you just proved all I’ve said about you being dishonest is true ! You preached a lie so it wasn’t the bible it wasn’t God and it wasn’t Jesus! You were basically just flapping your yap

  294. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    So you know “the truth” are you some sort of an oracle ?

    You are the one with a religion, not us

    We are in a relationship

    There is no comparison

  295. Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    Hate to break the news to you Richard but you never preached Christ,God,or the bible you just proved all I’ve said about you being dishonest is true ! You preached a lie so it wasn’t the bible it wasn’t God and it wasn’t Jesus! You were basically just flapping your yap

    Your logic is abysmal. The fact that you disagree with me now doesn’t mean that what I said before was a lie. Or what? I said the Bible is God’s Word. Was that a lie? I said that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. Was that a lie?

  296. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Oh yes ! The Lord told me to look for the Hebrew significance of numbers, and so I did a search on the Internet and your website came up.

    So, what’s your point?

  297. Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    So you know “the truth” are you some sort of an oracle ?

    You are the one with a religion, not us

    We are in a relationship

    There is no comparison

    Many Christians say that!

    You have never said what you think the word “religion” even means, so your comments are meaningless.

    Here’s the standard definition:

    RELIGION: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

    So ok, you don’t worship or believe in God. You’re an atheist. Glad we got that cleared up. LOL

  298. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    You overuse the word “abysmal”

    I believe David Berlinski might refer to you that way.

    You should contact him and tell him how wrong he is : )

    Maybe we could 3-way the conversation so I could watch the exchange

  299. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

    I never said I was a “Christian”
    You did

    You are a monkey
    And you said so

  300. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    You make the argument if you were debating a Muslim you would use the Quran and proof what?you debate something you don’t believe in ? but you use the book that proves you don’t know what you’re talking about ? Doesn’t that seem pretty stupid? You can’t have it both ways, your argument is as stupid as your flywheel! If you are as smart as you think you are how did you ever make the mistake with your flywheel anyway? I amazed that you’re tripping on lsd,acid and God knows what else but you have all this insight , isn’t that called a really bad trip? You need to go back to the beginning and you will find out who you’ve really been hearing!

  301. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    That is a man-made definition lol

    It’s not accurate,

    Do you have a “religion” with your wife?

  302. Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    I never said I was a “Christian”
    You did

    Actually, you said you were NOT a Christian. But that doesn’t mean you are not. Changing words does not change reality. You believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible. That is the standard definition of a “Christian.” If you say you are not a Christian, then are you saying that you do not believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible?

    You are just playing meaningless word games. You have not defined what you think the words “religion” or “Christian” mean, so it is meaningless for to deny that those words apply to you when you do, in fact, fit the standard definitions.

    If you want to deny that your beliefs are Christian, then you need to explain what you mean because your words contradict the standard definitions.

    You are a monkey
    And you said so

    Not true. I said I am an ape. And so are you. Anyone with basic knowledge of biology understands this fact.

  303. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    What is a “personal” god?

    Sounds man-made also

    Like a stone carving or an idol

    So again, no we are not in a “religion”, and have no part of a “religion”

    We have a RELATIONSHIP with our Father and our Brother!!!

    Do you call your family a “religion” ???

  304. Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    That is a man-made definition lol

    It’s not accurate,

    Man made definition? Like there’s any other kind? LOL.

    Please give me your “non-man-made” definition of “religion” and “Christianity” (if you are able).

    Do you have a “religion” with your wife?

    Nope. And neither do you have a God that you can see and touch as I do my wife.

  305. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    So, I never said I was Christian, I said I am not a Christian

    How is this confusing you??

    Are you trying to prove that I am

    Why do you feel the need to do that?

  306. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Lol

    “Nope. And neither do you have a God that you can see and touch as I do my wife.”

    You are right, I am closer to my Father and Brother than you are to your wife : )

  307. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    For the last time

    Look up the definition of RELATIONSHIP as in family.

  308. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    So you again prove I’m right ! You want it both ways what you said before is irrelevant according to you so why bring it up? I never said Gods word was a lie you did or Jesus was not the Lord you did so just like your flywheel if you’re wrong about that how much more are you wrong about? So you admit Jesus is the Lord and savior and the bible is Gods word ? So if you say that is true you are lying now and if you say it’s not true you were lying then ? So which is it ? So how do I know your not lying again ?richard the conclusion is quite simple you are not believable at all

  309. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    Relationship : the way in which two or more people or things are connected

  310. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    You are a closed box Mr. McGough

    You are so limited in your “higher thinking@

  311. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    “higher thinking”

    You limit yourself by barriers and dogmas of men and you are trying to say you are a “free thinker”

    Oh, ok

  312. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Prove that you are not from a monkey

    Can you prove it ?

  313. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    So you again prove I’m right ! You want it both ways what you said before is irrelevant according to you so why bring it up? I never said Gods word was a lie you did or Jesus was not the Lord you did so just like your flywheel if you’re wrong about that how much more are you wrong about? So you admit Jesus is the Lord and savior and the bible is Gods word ? So if you say that is true you are lying now and if you say it’s not true you were lying then ? So which is it ? So how do I know your not lying again ?richard the conclusion is quite simple you are not believable at all

  314. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    You excell at misinformation and misinterpretation Mr. McGough.

    Can’t you see that?

  315. MichaelFree
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Daniel and Lisa,

    You two are the ones on here spewing falsehood after falsehood.

    I know for a fact that the God character in the OT is both extremely good and extremely evil, and I know for a fact that the Jesus character in the NT is both extremely good and extremely evil, making both of them extremely evil and extremely untrustworthy. God or Jesus would have to come back and rebuke the Bible, rebuke the depiction of God in the Bible, and rebuke the depiction of Jesus in the Gospels in order for God or Jesus to be actually good and trustworthy. That book is not the word of a good God.

    We’ve proven that coincidences exist, that non-belief in a belief is not lying, that non-belief in a belief doesn’t make someone a homosexual, that non-belief in a belief does not make someone evil or deserving of torture, and we’ve proven that you two talk in circles. I’m surprised Richard hasn’t dropped the ban hammer on you by now.

    And guess what, I still think you’re good people, because I know that beliefs are just beliefs and have nothing at all to do with the content of someone’s character, which is measured in words and deeds, which are the human beings method of interaction with the world around us. People who disagree about beliefs can each go their separate ways and still be in peace but people who traffic in actual lies, actual thefts, and actual violence are far from peace.

  316. Posted May 20, 2016 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    So, I never said I was Christian, I said I am not a Christian

    How is this confusing you??

    It’s not “confusing” to me at all. I’m simply trying to help you see that your words are irrational and meaningless.

    Do you believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible? If so, then you are a “Christian” by the standard definition. If you want to say that definition does not apply to you then you need to explain what you take those words to mean and why anyone should accept your peculiar idiosyncratic definitions that no one else uses.

    If reject the standard definitions and refuse to define what those words mean to you, then your words are literally meaningless. No one will have any idea of what you mean. You will be talking gibberish.

    Nothing could be simpler. You have said you are not a Christian so by the standard definition I must take that to mean that you do not believe in God, Jesus, or the Bible. You say you have no religion, so I must take that to mean you are an atheist.

  317. Posted May 20, 2016 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    You excell at misinformation and misinterpretation Mr. McGough.

    Can’t you see that?

    How can I see something that you can’t show?

    If you want me to admit that I have presented any misinformation or misinterpretation then you need to quote what I wrote and show the error. Should be very simple if your words were true.

  318. Posted May 20, 2016 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    So you admit Jesus is the Lord and savior and the bible is Gods word ? So if you say that is true you are lying now and if you say it’s not true you were lying then ? So which is it ?

    Your words are absurd and your logic is abysmal. I did not lie when I said I believed Jesus was Lord. I am not lying now when I say I do not believe Jesus is Lord. The fact that I do not believe what I used to believe does not mean I was lying when I said I believed it. Your words are absurd and your logic is abysmal.

  319. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    If I told you I had a relationship with someone far greater than me who I can’t fully explain would you accept that?
    The one who is more real in kindness and love than anyone I have ever met or known. That is not a lie.
    If one person has an experience that no one else around them has ever had, why is that delusional?
    If an incident that happens once, and can neither be fully explained or compared to anything, how can it be a “coincidence”?
    I don’t like being labeled something I am not.
    Or shoved into a group I don’t belong to
    I don’t like being told I’m something because of someone else’s belief. Someone I don’t even know.

    I don’t know what your understanding is Michael, but you are no determiner of falsehood, and neither is Mr. McGough.
    In order to say you don’t “believe” in the Bible anymore as Mr McGough said, or like you “think” that there is both a wicked and good Jesus like you do, both of you are contrary to what I know.

    Believing and thinking are different than knowing.

    My relationship isn’t based on your thinking Michael or Mr. McGough’s non-belief of my relationship.

    Even if you both agree with each other, it gives you no more authority to determine truth for me and what I know.

  320. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    “Christian” does not define me Mr. McGough
    No more than “religion” defines me

    I have a relationship that you don’t
    So believe that

  321. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Michael is like to know what falsehood I’m spewing and if that’s what I’m doing can you tell me what exactly what you’re doing ? What makes you more credible than me? Michael I’d like to know how you proved coincidence exists? According to who ? Why is it you’ve not given evidence of anything but you are somehow an authority?your degree is in what? Michael all you’ve given is your opinion based on what you believe,and have proved absolutely nothing! that’s it! It’s best left alone you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink!

  322. MichaelFree
    Posted May 20, 2016 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    What water is that Daniel? Be very specific. What is this water that you are attempting to lead me to?

    I have a vocational certificate in computer repair. All the rest of your questions have specific answers in my previous comments.

  323. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 4:35 am | Permalink

    Richard that is just a convieniant way of saying,you’re wrong again! Like I said,which you failed to respond too,James saying: going after every wind of doctrine,double minded,unstable in all your ways ! Would you believe someone like that ? Personally I wouldn’t, but you’re batting 500 Michael believes you, but to each his own,how do you tell a deceived person, they’re deceived? Reposted due to the fact, I posted it before I seen some typos!

  324. Daniel Duke
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    Not really Michael, like I said,you have proven nothing . Opinion doesn’t prove truth,nor does rhetoric,and you know that. Michael I will end this, by saying: you,nor Richard are qualified to give an answer,based on any proven facts, so it is just your warped concept of how things are. I apologized to you for calling you names, but does that make any of them things less true? You see Michael, you are just like mr Magoo, you want it both ways. You dislike my evaluation of you and Richard,but somehow think your evaluation of Christ should be acceptable, you say I’m spewing lies because the position I take ? Like I asked,what makes what you or Richard says more credible? John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. I hope that answers what water I was talking about.mans definition of evidence:the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid . I see no reason to continue,arguing with someone that obviously lacks any real merit based on proven facts.as far as my facts go, I’ve already proven them since I’m living proof of them. Was blind,but now I see, was weak,but was made strong,was lost,but now I’m found . I could go on all day , because the word is eternal, just like the Lord .

  325. Posted May 21, 2016 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    Like I asked,what makes what you or Richard says more credible?

    That’s easy. Logic and facts support what we say. All you have are you empty assertions based on nothing but your irrational blind belief in the Bible. You are therefore no more credible than a Muslim, Mormon, or Scientologist.

    Your focus on “credibility” over evidence reveals the fundamental flaw in your belief system. It is based on an assumed “authority” of book written largely by anonymous humans that have no credibility whatsoever.

  326. Posted May 21, 2016 at 6:29 am | Permalink

    Richard that is just a convieniant way of saying,you’re wrong again!

    Not true. Admitting I was wrong in the past does not imply I am wrong now. That would be absurd. It would mean no one could ever correct a mistake.

    Like I said,which you failed to respond too,James saying: going after every wind of doctrine,double minded,unstable in all your ways ! Would you believe someone like that ? Personally I wouldn’t, but you’re batting 500 Michael believes you, but to each his own,how do you tell a deceived person, they’re deceived?

    I’m not like that. That passage does not apply to me. I do not “go after every wind of doctrine.” On the contrary, I reject every doctrine that can be demonstrated false, such as your delusional version of Christianity in which you exalt yourself and your wife to the status of the Two Witnesses of Revelation. And you ludicrous prediction that there is a “Great Tribulation” coming sometime “soon” just like every madman has been predicting since the beginning of Christianity two thousand years ago! How could you let your mind fall into such deception? Every self-exalting prophet like you that has ever predicted the end times has failed. Why do you think you are any different?

  327. Posted May 21, 2016 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    Not really Michael, like I said,you have proven nothing . Opinion doesn’t prove truth,nor does rhetoric,and you know that.

    And neither does quoting the Bible, the Quran, or the Book of Mormon prove anything.

    Michael and I have proven many things with logic and facts that you just ignored because you know you cannot refute our words. You have nothing but blind belief in your own private two-person cult. Nothing could be more absurd.

  328. Posted May 21, 2016 at 6:35 am | Permalink

    . I see no reason to continue,arguing with someone that obviously lacks any real merit based on proven facts.

    If your words were true, you could quote something I have written that contradicts known facts. But you can’t do that, so you spew nothing but empty rhetoric. So by your own words, you have convicted yourself of not being credible.

  329. Posted May 21, 2016 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Was blind,but now I see, was weak,but was made strong,was lost,but now I’m found . I could go on all day , because the word is eternal, just like the Lord .

    Yes, you could go on all day repeating the words of your scriptures as if that made them true, just like a typical Muslim. You have no actual evidence. All you have is blind delusional belief that your God is real and you are one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation. Is that your idea of credibility? LOL

  330. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    “How can I see something that you can’t show?” Richard McGough
    “How can I see something that you can’t show?” Richard McGough

    “How can you see?” you ask.
    Authority: the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.
    Can you actually “see” authority?

    How can you “see”
    Obedience: compliance with an order, request, or law or submission to another’s authority.
    Can you actually “see” obedience?

    Show me authority and show me also obedience Mr. McGough

    You can’t actually show me these in a physical form can you? But you require I produce a physical form of “God” by your definition of Him.

    If you can’t “see” authority and obedience, does that make them also a type of “religion” ? According to your standard and requirements it does. You can’t actually “see” gravity either.
    By your standard and requirements it also makes gravity a “religion”, because you can’t “see” it.

    No, you can’t see these words, only the product of them.

    You say you don’t “believe” in “religions” or “God”

    You say you can’t believe in something you can’t see.

    Wickedness: the quality of being evil or morally wrong.

    Wickedness is a “quality” ? When did wickedness become a “quality” ? And according to who?

    According to the same men that define “religion”, that you adhere to and laugh when I reject it, they also define wickedness as a “quality”.

    My Lord I Am, as a “God” by their definition and my relationship with Him as a “religion” also by their definition I absolutely reject both, and I have credible reasons to do so.

    “No man has seen I Am and lived”.

    You say you studied the Hebrew language, great, then show me what “religion” Abraham said he was. You can’t.
    By his account, he had a “relationship” and not a “religion”.

    The definition of what he had with “I Am” has been wrongly defined by other men in a later times as “religion”

    These men who did not experience what Abraham did, are giving a second-hand understanding of what they think they can describe, but having no actual experience with it. Their description or “definition” is wrong. Abraham had a relationship which could only be rightfully defined by him. The evidence of his relationship can only be assessed by others as “religion”. You can not use a generic term (non-specific) to classify Abraham’s relationship as a “religion” and be correct.

    Show me your “authority” to define Abraham’s relationship with I Am, Mr. McGough. You can’t.

    Nor can you correctly define my relationship with I Am. Nor can you correctly define I Am.

    You can neither “see” authority, or “obedience” but accept their existence?

    How ?

  331. Posted May 21, 2016 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    Like I asked,what makes what you or Richard says more credible? John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. I hope that answers what water I was talking about.mans definition of evidence:the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid .

    “Man’s definition”? Is there some other kind? If so, please state it.

    How do you know who did or did not actually “drink that water”? I would have said I most certainly drank of it daily when I was a believer. If I was wrong then, how do you know you are not wrong now? Every believer claims they have drunk it, but you reject most of them as not “true” believers. So how do you know that you have really drunk the “water” and not the delusional kool-aide of a self-exalting ego freak who fancies himself one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation?

    All you need to do is state the objective evidence by which we can discern between the “true drinker” and the delusional drinker. Good luck with that!

  332. Posted May 21, 2016 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    “How can you see?” you ask.
    Authority: the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.
    Can you actually “see” authority?

    I didn’t ask “how can I see” in general. I asked “How can I see something that you can’t show.”

    Of course I can “see” authority, like any other abstract concept, with my mind. The word “show” is commonly used in the sense of “to demonstrate” or “to make perceptible.” It does not apply only to physical sight. This is common knowledge. I shouldn’t have to explain this to you. Abstractions are “shown” to be true all the time. This is the common definition of the word. A simple search yields this as the second definition:

    SHOW: display or allow to be perceived (a quality, emotion, or characteristic).

    Your rhetoric is really quite ridiculous.

    How can you “see”
    Obedience: compliance with an order, request, or law or submission to another’s authority.
    Can you actually “see” obedience?

    Of course! That’s easy. I compare a person’s actions with what they were told to do. If the two agree, then I can “see” the person’s obedience.

    Show me authority and show me also obedience Mr. McGough

    You can’t actually show me these in a physical form can you? But you require I produce a physical form of “God” by your definition of Him.

    Again, you are deeply confused. I have never “required” that you “produce a physical form of God.” And neither have I even defined God, let alone demanded that you follow my definition. Everything you write is filled with errors like these. It’s rare that you write anything that is actually true. I have PROVEN your error and you won’t admit it, so everyone reading can “see” that you despise truth.

    This is the primary difference between you and me. I provide EVIDENCE of your errors whereas all you do is spew out empty accusations based on the dogmas of your cult.

    If you can’t “see” authority and obedience, does that make them also a type of “religion” ? According to your standard and requirements it does. You can’t actually “see” gravity either.

    Your words are gibberish. The fact that authority and obedience are abstractions does not mean they are religions!

    And I can “see” gravity by the effect it has. Your mistake is that you are limiting the word “see” to physical sight which is not what the word means when discussing perception of abstractions.

    Wickedness: the quality of being evil or morally wrong.

    Wickedness is a “quality” ? When did wickedness become a “quality” ? And according to who?

    According to the same men that define “religion”, that you adhere to and laugh when I reject it, they also define wickedness as a “quality”.

    If you reject the dictionary definitions and don’t replace them with anything, then your words are literally meaningless gibberish. You have made yourself into a jabberwocky.

    You keep talking about “man-made definitions” without realizing that there are no other kinds. I have brought this to your attention many times and you simply ignore what I say. If you reject the dictionary definitions, then what do your words mean? Nothing. They become empty and void.

    My Lord I Am, as a “God” by their definition and my relationship with Him as a “religion” also by their definition I absolutely reject both, and I have credible reasons to do so.

    You have not shown anything like a “credible reason.” On the contrary, your words are utterly void of meaning because you reject the dictionary definitions and have not provided a replacement. Therefore, you are speaking autistic gibberish that has no meaning to anyone but yourself.

    You say you studied the Hebrew language, great, then show me what “religion” Abraham said he was. You can’t.
    By his account, he had a “relationship” and not a “religion”.

    This appears to be the root of your confusion. The words “relationship” and “religion” are not mutually exclusive. If Allah were a real God, it would be possible for followers of the religion of Islam to have a relationship with Allah.

    It is literally impossible to answer your question further because you have rejected the dictionary definition of religion and have not replaced it with anything so no one can know what you think you mean when you use that word.

    The definition of what he had with “I Am” has been wrongly defined by other men in a later times as “religion”

    Merely saying that religion is not a relationship does not help anyone understand your definition of “religion”. Why do you refuse to define your terms? I think it is because you know that you cannot define them without exposing the rank absurdity of your claim that your religion is not a religion. I have explained this to you many times now. You need to explain why your belief in God, Jesus, and the Bible is not a “religion” while everyone else’s belief in God, Jesus, and the Bible IS a religion.

    These men who did not experience what Abraham did, are giving a second-hand understanding of what they think they can describe, but having no actual experience with it.

    How do you know what “they” have experienced? You don’t know anything about “them”. You don’t even know who “they” are!You are speaking in empty generalities about things you do not know. You have no basis to make such assertions whatsoever.

    Their description or “definition” is wrong. Abraham had a relationship which could only be rightfully defined by him. The evidence of his relationship can only be assessed by others as “religion”. You can not use a generic term (non-specific) to classify Abraham’s relationship as a “religion” and be correct.

    Not true. The concept of “religion” is well defined and makes perfect sense. The definition is used in courts of law, by professors, by common people. The only person who is acting confused about the definition is YOU and you can’t even define what it is “supposed” to mean! You reject the word because you are trying to exalt your religion above all others, by defining it as a “relationship” that does not involve belief in God, Jesus, and the Bible. Nothing could be more absurd, because your beliefs about God and Jesus are based fundamentally on the Bible.

    Show me your “authority” to define Abraham’s relationship with I Am, Mr. McGough. You can’t.

    I never claimed any such thing, so yet again your words are absurd.

    Nor can you correctly define my relationship with I Am. Nor can you correctly define I Am.

    I never claimed I could, so words continue to be absurd.

    You can neither “see” authority, or “obedience” but accept their existence?

    I can easily “see” abstractions. You are simply confused about the range of meanings of the word “see.”

  333. Posted May 21, 2016 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    “Christian” does not define me Mr. McGough
    No more than “religion” defines me

    I have a relationship that you don’t
    So believe that

    Why should I believe that you really have a “relationship”? Anyone can make a claim like that. How exactly are your claims any different than a schizophrenic who has an imaginary friend?

  334. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    “Of course I can “see” authority, like any other abstract concept, with my mind. The word “show” is commonly used in the sense of “to demonstrate” or “to make perceptible.” It does not apply only to physical sight. This is common knowledge. I shouldn’t have to explain this to you. Abstractions are “shown” to be true all the time. This is the common definition of the word.” Richard McGough

    Abstract: existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.

    Abstractions are not true. Call authority something else, but not abstraction.

    “Common” to whom?

    “Jibberish”, “rhetoric”, “absurd”

    Words you commonly use in relation to what you can’t accurately describe by anything but your understanding.

    Wickedness is no quality, but you don’t agree?

  335. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    “Why should I believe that you really have a “relationship”? Anyone can make a claim like that. How exactly are your claims any different than a schizophrenic who has an imaginary friend?” Richard McGough

    The researcher/doctor said he could give me no psychological test I couldn’t breeze through.

    He did not diagnose me as anything.

    He did find that my correct (with no training) diagnosis of a psychopath was outside of what he “commonly” saw. He did say he could talk to me like another physician on the subject. But really had no answer for how that was possible.

    I told him I had no ability to “see” and correctly diagnose a “psychopath”. I told him I didn’t know, and don’t know. The Lord told me.

    Even the research / Doctor didn’t question my explanation. He accepted it because he had no other answer.

  336. Posted May 21, 2016 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    If I told you I had a relationship with someone far greater than me who I can’t fully explain would you accept that?

    Because your “relationship” is with an obviously fictional character from a religious book.

    I say “obviously” because anyone familiar with the Bible can easily “see” that many stories were made up about Jesus. So even if there were a real historical character named Jesus, the Bible is no more reliable than a historical novel.

    The one who is more real in kindness and love than anyone I have ever met or known. That is not a lie.

    All that “reality” is in your imagination. Your beliefs are totally subjective and indistinguishable from delusions that are common among religious believers.

    If one person has an experience that no one else around them has ever had, why is that delusional?

    It’s not necessarily delusional, but there is good reason to think so because it is common to people with beliefs like yours. There’s no way that all the different claims about Jesus can be reconciled. You claim your subjective relationship is true while others with contrary beliefs claim their subjective relationship is true. Such claims are the hallmark of delusion. It is possible that some random person out there has a “real” relationship with some version of God and Jesus, but if so there is no way for anyone to know.

    Suppose your beliefs were delusional. How would you know? What would you do to free yourself from delusional beliefs?

    If an incident that happens once, and can neither be fully explained or compared to anything, how can it be a “coincidence”?

    Look up the definition of coincidence. That should answer your question.

    I don’t like being labeled something I am not.

    Then you need to define what you mean by the word “religion” and explain why belief in God, Jesus, and the Bible is a “religion” for others but not for you.

    Or shoved into a group I don’t belong to

    You have not explained why your religion is not a religion. Merely saying it is a “relationship” is irrational because religion and relationship are not mutually exclusive.

    I don’t like being told I’m something because of someone else’s belief. Someone I don’t even know.

    You define yourself when you claim you are a “servant of the Lord Jesus Christ” who believes in the Bible and it’s God. That is the definition of a Christian. The Bible is a religious book and Christianity is a religion. It is quite absurd for you to use the book and beliefs of a religion and then deny that you are a follower of that religion.

    I don’t know what your understanding is Michael, but you are no determiner of falsehood, and neither is Mr. McGough.

    Have you never heard of the logical fallacy known as “appeal to authority.” Truth is not determined by who said it. Truth is determined by logic and facts. This is the primary error of religious people like you who base their claims on the assumed religious authority like the Bible, the Pope, the Watchtower Society, or the writings of L. Ron Hubbard.

    You need to quit appealing to authority and turn to demonstrable logic and facts. Then you will find your way out of the dark dank delusional dungeon of your religion.

    In order to say you don’t “believe” in the Bible anymore as Mr McGough said, or like you “think” that there is both a wicked and good Jesus like you do, both of you are contrary to what I know.

    Ha! That’s funny. We can prove our claims with logic and facts whereas your “knowledge” is nothing but unprovable subjective experiences and fantasy that cannot be proven and that are indistinguishable from delusions common to religious believers. So no one but a fool would believe your claim to “know” – especially because you also claim to “know” that you and Daniel are the Two Witnesses of Revelation and that the “Great Tribulation” is scheduled to happen any day now. LOL

    Believing and thinking are different than knowing.

    Correct. Knowledge is justified true belief. And that’s why I know your claim to knowledge is false, because you cannot justify it. I know you believe your relationship is true, but you cannot know it because it is subjective and could be an illusion, as it is with so many other people with similar beliefs.

    My relationship isn’t based on your thinking Michael or Mr. McGough’s non-belief of my relationship.

    Your “relationship” appears to be delusional. It is indistinguishable from similar delusions and there is no way for you to know if you are deluded or not.

    Even if you both agree with each other, it gives you no more authority to determine truth for me and what I know.

    Again, you are repeating your appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy. Neither Michael nor I claim our words are true because we have “authority.” We base the truth of our words on objectively verifiable logic and facts. Simple as that. You base your claims on nothing but your own subjective feelings and personal anecdotes that cannot be proven.

  337. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Would you submit yourself to a PCL-R test Mr. McGough?

    My doctor friend is highly credentialed.

    He could, no doubt, review your responses here and see similarities in behaviors that he has much experience with, but without the results of a PCL-R test, he could make no formal diagnosis.

  338. Posted May 21, 2016 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Would you submit yourself to a PCL-R test Mr. McGough?

    My doctor friend is highly credentialed.

    He could, no doubt, review your responses here and see similarities in behaviors that he has much experience with, but without the results of a PCL-R test, he could make no formal diagnosis.

    Ha! So now you want to insinuate I am a psychopath? Great! All you have to do now is quote something I’ve written that would justify such a perverse accusation. If you can’t do that, you will be demonstrating nothing but your own psychopathy. And that’s how things usually work when you point fingers at others. This is one of the things the Bible got right. You fulfill the words of Paul:

    Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

    And the words of Jesus:

    Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

  339. Posted May 21, 2016 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Abstract: existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.

    Abstractions are not true. Call authority something else, but not abstraction.

    You don’t understand the meaning of words. The concept of “authority” is an abstraction. It has no physical, concrete reality.

    ABSTRACT: relating to or involving general ideas or qualities rather than specific people, objects, or actions

    Abstractions can be true. For example, mathematical theorems are abstractions and they are true. The Pythagorean Theorem that states “the square of the hypotenuse equals the sum of the squares of the other two sides” is true.

    Wickedness is no quality, but you don’t agree?

    Again, you show you have no understanding of basic English. Here is the common dictionary definition of wickedness:

    WICKEDNESS: the quality of being evil or morally wrong.

  340. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    I think I will also submit this conversation with you Mr. McGough to Dr. Robert Hare as well.
    Dr. Robert D. Hare C.M. is a researcher in the field of criminal psychology. He is world-renown as the foremost leading authority on the subject of psychopathy.

    I believe I have collected enough information about you here.

    There are varying degrees of psychopathy. There are is the higher-functioning psychopath and the lower-functioning psychopath, and other measured degrees in between.

    Psychopaths are considered insane.

    The higher-functioning psychopath can appear very intelligent, however, their cognitive thinking is flawed.
    They lack conscience and emotion. There is little, if any activity in the frontal lobe of their brain. They are also low in vasopressin and oxytocin.

    Although much research has been committed to this field of study, there is still no cure for this condition.

    I have been in the process of connecting the known characteristics of a psychopath to the Bible’s definition of the “seed of satan”. I can clearly see what Cain did to Abel. His first sin, however, was pride. His second sin was murder.

    I believe Cain, by his actions and responses to Almighty God, displayed what is commonly known today as psychopathy.

    satan is “The monarch of the sons of pride” Job 41: 34. satan and his offspring are void of conscience and emotion.

    “Creation” does not prove Almighty God in some scientific circles, however, if an irrefutable correlation between the characteristics of a psychopath and those the Bible refers to as “the seed of satan”, can be made, this correlation very well could. I know of no other “religion” that does.

  341. MichaelFree
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Daniel and Lisa,

    Regarding “living water” in the Gospels, Jesus said what living water is, so I will ask you, what do you think that living water is, and then I will tell you what I know that living water is. So tell me, what is living water? Here’s a hint: Richard and I have been proclaiming it this whole time.

  342. MichaelFree
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Proclaim: “to show something clearly”

  343. MichaelFree
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    Daniel and Lisa,

    Disregard my previous two comments. This is what it should have read:

    “Regarding “living water” in the Gospels, Jesus said what living water is, so I will ask you, what do you think that living water is, and then I will tell you what I know that living water is. So tell me, what is living water?

  344. Posted May 21, 2016 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    I think I will also submit this conversation with you Mr. McGough to Dr. Robert Hare as well.
    Dr. Robert D. Hare C.M. is a researcher in the field of criminal psychology. He is world-renown as the foremost leading authority on the subject of psychopathy.

    I believe I have collected enough information about you here.

    Ha! So now you call me a psychopath because I expose your errors and you can’t refute a word I write? Wow. You really are all the way out there on the freak-o-meter. If your accusation were true you would be able to actually is quote something I’ve written to justify your perverse accusation. If you can’t do that you will be demonstrating nothing but your own psychopathy. You spew out slander that actually describes your own behavior. And that’s no surprise because that’s how things usually work when you point fingers at others. I learned that in kindergarten and it is one of the things the Bible got right. You fulfill the words of Paul:

    Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

    And the words of Jesus:

    Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

  345. MichaelFree
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    I don’t like this conversation anymore.

    The explanation is in double parentheses as you read along.

    John 4: 6Now Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.

    7There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. 8(For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) 9Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings ((mind your own business around people you don’t like because of their different beliefs if you can’t stand them so much, it’s the opposite of violence, it’s peace)) with the Samaritans. 10Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 11The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 12Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? 13Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

    15The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw ((she wants this living water)) 16 ((And here’s the test:)) Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither ((he said this knowing full well she wasn’t married and that she was living with a man out of wedlock)). 17The woman answered and said, I have no husband (SHE TOLD THE TRUTH, FACTUAL AND PROVABLE TRUTH). Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well ((well means “good” and also means a well for water, so “well” said)) said, I have no husband: 18For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly ((FACTUAL TRUTH IS LIVING WATER, SPEAK THE TRUTH AND DO NOT LIE IS LIVING WATER)). ((One can see how a woman living with a man out of wedlock might be compelled to lie, which was the test, and yet she didn’t lie, she told THE TRUTH)).

    Now let’s tally up the actual lies that Daniel and Lisa have been spewing, or rather, let’s not, they are too numerous, and this conversation, if you want to call it that, is tedious, cumbersome, unfruitful, and frankly, crazy.

    Take care.

  346. MichaelFree
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    Help me out please, I know you’ve said this in this conversation, so let’s cut right to the chase. I’m not trying to argue, I’m trying to learn something from someone who knows what they’re talking about and who gives a shit about the truth:

    “I said I am an ape. And so are you. Anyone with basic knowledge of biology understands this fact.”

    This is from the Wikipedia article titled “Evolution as fact and theory”. Remember the title of the article to understand the context that these statements are made. These statements were made under the FACT section of the article, you might want to read it as it’s really short:

    A fact is a hypothesis that is so firmly supported by evidence that we assume it is true, and act as if it were true. —Douglas J. Futuyma

    and

    There is no sharp line between speculation, hypothesis, theory, principle, and fact, but only a difference along a sliding scale, in the degree of probability of the idea. When we say a thing is a fact, then, we only mean that its probability is an extremely high one: so high that we are not bothered by doubt about it and are ready to act accordingly. Now in this use of the term fact, the only proper one, evolution is a fact.- Hermann Joseph Muller

    and

    In the sense that evolution is overwhelmingly validated by the evidence, it is a fact.

    and

    “Fact” is also used in a wider sense to mean any theory for which there is overwhelming evidence.

    _

    Now, lets take an apple. An apple is indeed an apple. In actual fact it is an apple, it doesn’t matter who agrees or disagrees with the fact, or anything like, an apple is what it is. The woman at the well in the Jesus story was in fact not married. These are provable facts. There is no “preponderance of the evidence”, they are actual facts, these things ARE what they ARE.

    So my question is, is evolution a fact in the same way that an apple is an apple is a fact? If it’s not, which it appears to not be, why not come up with a different way to say that you are an ape and to express your belief that evolution if factual?

    I’m not offended by evolution, in fact I think it’s really cool. I have no ties to anything that makes me question evolution except THE TRUTH. This quote from the article is bullshit: “”Fact” is also used in a wider sense to mean any theory for which there is overwhelming evidence”. An apple being an apple is not a theory, the thing is what it is, which is what establishes fact. One plus one equals two is a fact. Actual fact has nothing to do with theory. In science, theories lead to scientific experimentation and study, which might produce actual fact. If it hasn’t produced actual fact then quit calling it fact, that’s all I’m saying.

    If you answer, remember that citing examples of the preponderance of the evidence is not going to convince me that evolution is a fact, however I am convinced that evolution is the most likely scenario to have occurred.

  347. Posted May 21, 2016 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    So my question is, is evolution a fact in the same way that an apple is an apple is a fact? If it’s not, which it appears to not be, why not come up with a different way to say that you are an ape and to express your belief that evolution if factual?

    The classification of humans as a kind of ape comes from the same kind of evidence that classifies lions, tigers, and house cats under the Family name Felidae. Humans are of the taxonomic family Hominidae. Here’s how the wiki explains it:

    The Hominidae, whose members are known as great apes or hominids, are a taxonomic family of primates that includes seven extant species in four genera: Pongo, the Bornean and Sumatran orangutan; Gorilla, the eastern and western gorilla; Pan, the common chimpanzee and the bonobo; and Homo, the human.[1]

    If you answer, remember that citing examples of the preponderance of the evidence is not going to convince me that evolution is a fact, however I am convinced that evolution is the most likely scenario to have occurred.

    Evolution is a fact in the sense that we can see it happen in the fossil record. There is a sequence of forms. In the earliest rocks we find only single celled organisms. In later rocks we find more complex multicellular organisms. Then we find vertebrates appearing that do not appear in older rocks at all. Then we see land plants, and then land animals. And on and on it goes. We can see the evolution of life from single celled organisms all the way up to modern mammals. And all this evidence coheres with the DNA that shows common descent. I don’t understand why you would say “the preponderance of the evidence is not going to convince me” when it is the preponderance of evidence that shows evolution to be not only “the most likely scenario to have occurred” but also a fact that we can see in the fossil record itself.

    Hope that helps. Does this make sense to you?

  348. MichaelFree
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    I have to think more about my answer before I reply more fully.

    Are you willing to go on record that supernatural beings in fact do not exist?

  349. MichaelFree
    Posted May 21, 2016 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    Ok, this statement: “I am an ape”, is factual when said in reference to the Hominidae classification:

    “The classification of humans as a kind of ape comes from the same kind of evidence that classifies lions, tigers, and house cats under the Family name Felidae. Humans are of the taxonomic family Hominidae. Here’s how the wiki explains it:

    The Hominidae, whose members are known as great apes or hominids, are a taxonomic family of primates that includes seven extant species in four genera: Pongo, the Bornean and Sumatran orangutan; Gorilla, the eastern and western gorilla; Pan, the common chimpanzee and the bonobo; and Homo, the human.”

  350. MichaelFree
    Posted May 22, 2016 at 12:31 am | Permalink

    Richard,

    As a layperson who is not a scientist these things come to mind:

    Is it possible that human beings originally came from another planet in the Universe, as human beings, and Earth is our colony? Is it possible that human beings are not native to Earth? If your answer is that it is possible, then evolution in regard to human beings on Earth is not factual, if your answer is that it is impossible that human beings came from another planet because our DNA shows common descent with other creatures here on Earth, why is it not possible that all creatures across the Universe, including human beings, show common descent in our DNA?

    Why have we not seen one type of animal give birth to another type of animal? If you say that it happens over hundreds of thousands of years, I would point out that at some point one type of animal must give birth to another type of animal in order for evolution to occur, and it must happen not only in one animal but in more than one animal of the same type at about the same time. This is the kind of evidence that establishes fact in my mind.

    Those are my only questions that I have. I am not qualified to discuss the science at all. In fact, I’m not qualified to establish facts at all in any respect when it comes to evolution, although, I am free to be skeptical.

    To be honest with you I am highly skeptical of “political evolution” in the sense that I see it as public mockery, and it’s very dismissive of those who believe that God created human beings as human beings. In the same vein I view “political creationism” the same way. This type of politics is hurtful and divisive. And yes, the religionists in government and those in power many times bring it on themselves, but I tell you, your everyday Christian is not in government and is not in power, and it’s very hurtful to have powerful people publicly mocking religion and religious beliefs. Believing in creation instead of evolution has no bearing on someone’s worth as a human being or on someone’s value to society. “Political evolution” professed publicly by powerful people like presidents are a direct assault on people’s beliefs in their God.

    And I’ll tell you what also, I am against GMOs and non-organic farming, I am against vaccines which contain mercury or other poisons, I am against political global warming tax and wealth transfer schemes, I am against polluting the Earth, and I am against anyone who proposes depopulation and who talk about low numbers for the carrying capacity of the Earth.

  351. MichaelFree
    Posted May 22, 2016 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    This statement:

    “If your answer is that it is possible, then evolution in regard to human beings on Earth is not factual”

    Should read:

    “If your answer is that it is possible, then evolution in regard to human beings on Earth has not yet been proven to be factual”

  352. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 23, 2016 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    “Why have we not seen one type of animal give birth to another type of animal? If you say that it happens over hundreds of thousands of years, I would point out that at some point one type of animal must give birth to another type of animal in order for evolution to occur, and it must happen not only in one animal but in more than one animal of the same type at about the same time. This is the kind of evidence that establishes fact in my mind.” MichaelFree

    EXCELLENT Michael, your question is perfectly scientific.

    You don’t have to have a degree in science to ask a question.

    Asking a question is the first step,
    “How does something do this ______” or “How does this _______ happen?”

    After the question is asked then an idea is formed, the “idea” is called an Hypothesis.

    The next question asked:
    How can we “test” this idea?

    TESTING any HYPOTHESIS is a requirement for a hypothesis to be then considered a THEORY.

    If Testing the idea then brings EVIDENCE that supports the idea, only then can it be considered a Theory.

    More testing is then done to make sure the Theory is irrefutable.

    Only when all the evidence from the testing is consistent and remains the same and no other outcome is possible, can it then be considered a LAW.

    So,
    1. A (question) is asked as to how or why based on a (discovery)
    2. A (Hypothesis) is formed or an idea as to the how or why this (discovery)
    3. (Testing) the (Hypothesis) brings (evidence) that supports the discovery
    4. (Theory) is then formed after (testing)
    5. More (testing) of the (Theory) to bring a consistency (constant). When the (theory) is (tested) the same (evidence) happens every time, then it is then known as a (Law)
    6 Law: a law is a theory that can’t be disproved

    In the case of evolution, they found a billion bones.
    The idea was that somehow these bones show man came from another animal, or even a bacteria.
    So (Macro) evolution is the idea that one kind of living creature was changed into another kind of creature.
    (Micro) evolution is not the same. Micro evolution only describes external features, such as a brown horse or a white one, the size of the horse being a Clydesdale or a quarter horse, and gender. More white horses or more brown horses, and the size depends on breeding.

    How do we test this idea of (Macro) evolution?
    How come we don’t see animals giving birth to other kinds of animals?
    This is not the first time this question has been asked.

    Actually there is testing of (Macro) evolution.

    The horse bred with a donkey produces a mule.

    Mules are always sterile–Mules can not reproduce, they have never reproduced.

    Nature has its own testing as well.
    If a three legged deer is born what happens?
    If any animal, insect, fish, or bird is born with a defect, what happens?

    Evolutionists want you to look at their “facts” and “proof”

    But their testing is missing–this is the missing link

    Testing is required to be considered scientific.

    So evolutionists say DNA “material” is linked! Apes have human DNA!
    Really?
    Well scientists also have said that they found this same DNA in spiders.

    What kind of DNA are we talking about?
    DNA is the building blocks to ALL life forms. DNA also says this is horse DNA, this is monkey DNA, this is cat DNA, and this is human DNA.

    Genetic science hasn’t found any horse/cat DNA. It hasn’t found any dog/monkey DNA. Genetic science only finds small similarities in DNA. Like apes and humans have ears on each side of their head. Birds also have ear canals on each side of their head.
    DNA can only reproduce what it was “designed” to reproduce.

    The DNA material used to “design” these animals, insects, fish, reptiles, birds etc. can only make what it knows how to make. That’s why a bird will always make a bird, a fish will always make another fish etc.

    Even in Equine, the sub-species of a horse and donkey remain separate. Mules are always sterile.

    These are facts (macro) evolution wants you to ignore.

    How do you test a billion bones of fossil remains to prove (macro) evolution?

    There would have to be millions of transitions in internal structure to change from a reptile (cold blooded) to a bird (warm blooded).

    But Evolutionists can’t even get the mule to reproduce.

    Very good question Michael.

  353. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 23, 2016 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    If you also want to know why my doctor/researcher friend study psychopathy, I can tell you that also.

    There are both genetic and environmental psychopaths, but the characteristics are similar.

    There is both a scientific and medical diagnoses of people who have been tested and found to have this condition.

    There is also a spiritual explanation as well. The Bible describes them.

    My desire to connect Bible and Science has led me to study this condition, but for different reasons.

    Science says the psychopath is void of conscience and emotion.
    The Bible describes this kind of person as well, but does not use the word psychopath.

    Do I believe all suicide victims go to “hell”? No
    Do I believe all “Athiests” go to “hell”? No
    Do I believe all psychopaths go to “hell”? No

    Jesus said we are to pray for our “enemies” with the understanding they also may be saved.

    Science says there is no cure for the psychopath.

    Jesus said not all things are possible with man, but He said all things are possible with His Father in Heaven. What is a miracle? An intervention that can’t be explained.

    Is it possible for an Athiest who commits suicide to go to Heaven?
    If you don’t know what happens to a person just before they take their last breath, then how can you say for sure?

    If a psychopath can not be redeemed, then who can? If there is no hope for the psychopath, then the hope of Heaven is not possible for anyone.

    I am not an Athiest, nor do I even advocate suicide, but I do believe that where things that are impossible with man they are possible with The I AM creator Who knows all things.

    Who prays and asks The Almighty I AM to help the psychopath? The Bible says the prayers of a righteous man availth (helps) much.

    What is a Biblical “psychopath”? The seed of satan, the enemy, his children, sons of pride. They lie, steal and murder and hurt other people.

    Why would Jesus tell us to pray for our enemies which includes the psychopath?
    Do we ignore the psychopath when he lies, or robs or murders? No
    Nor do we ignore the non-psychopath when they lie, steal or murder.
    What is the difference between a non-psychopath and a psychopath if the actions are the same?
    Is there a difference? Science says yes, their is no cure for the clinical psychopath. So, what do we do with them?

    Almost 50% of prison inmates who have committed violent crimes have tested positive for psychopathy.
    Both clinical and environmental.

    Why did wealthy Patty Hearst (who was first kidnapped) become like her captors (with a psychopath leader)?
    What influenced or who influenced or what caused her to decide to pick up a gun and rob a bank?? That’s crazy.
    Did her captors manipulated her? Did they deceive her? Was she afraid? Did they brainwash her?

    Studying psychopathy provides many answers to behavior but says there is no cure.

  354. Daniel and Lisa Duke
    Posted May 23, 2016 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Ugh, typo
    Why my doctor/ researcher friend and I study psychopathy.

  355. MichaelFree
    Posted June 3, 2016 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    As long as it’s possible that human beings are not native to Earth and as long as it’s possible that we are actually living in a simulated reality then human evolution on Earth has not yet been proven to be factual the way that one plus one equals two has been proven to be factual. To use terms that suggest otherwise amounts to politics and shows a disregard for the truth.

  356. Posted June 5, 2016 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    As long as it’s possible that human beings are not native to Earth and as long as it’s possible that we are actually living in a simulated reality then human evolution on Earth has not yet been proven to be factual the way that one plus one equals two has been proven to be factual. To use terms that suggest otherwise amounts to politics and shows a disregard for the truth.

    Hey there Michael,

    There is a problem with your use of language like “proven to be factual.” Philosophers long ago realized that nothing can be “proven” factual in absolute sense of the mathematics because there is no way to prove that life is not a dream or that we do not live in the matrix.

    Does this mean that there are no facts relating to the reality in which we find ourselves? Of course not. There are plenty of facts that are “proven” by repeatable observation according to the scientific method. Your argument denies the existence of all facts such as the “real” existence of dogs and cats and cell phones and houses and trees. It has no particular relevance to the question of human evolution which is every bit as much a “fact” as phenomena like gravity and electromagnetism.

  357. MichaelFree
    Posted June 5, 2016 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    R.A. McGough,

    You said:

    “There is a problem with your use of language like “proven to be factual.” Philosophers long ago realized that nothing can be “proven” factual in absolute sense of the mathematics because there is no way to prove that life is not a dream or that we do not live in the matrix.

    I should not have included the part about the possibility that we are living in a simulated reality, however even in a simulated reality if we have two dogs, two cats, two cellphones, two houses, or two trees, we still have observable and measurable evidence of having two of each of these things, therefore the math works out to be factual if we are measuring observable reality in a simulated reality; the math helps us function in life and to get things done in a consistent manner.

    You said:

    “It has no particular relevance to the question of human evolution which is every bit as much a “fact” as phenomena like gravity and electromagnetism.

    My question is whether or not it is possible that human beings are not native to Earth, that we came here from another planet as human beings many thousands of years ago? Perhaps we evolved on another Earth-like planet or perhaps we were created by other intelligent beings on another Earth-like planet? If these things are not possible, why are they not possible?

  358. MichaelFree
    Posted June 5, 2016 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    R.A. McGough,

    If we use your reasoning one could say that “supernatural beings do not exist” and declare it as a fact, even though supernatural beings may actually exist.

  359. Posted June 5, 2016 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    My question is whether or not it is possible that human beings are not native to Earth, that we came here from another planet as human beings many thousands of years ago? Perhaps we evolved on another Earth-like planet or perhaps we were created by other intelligent beings on another Earth-like planet? If these things are not possible, why are they not possible?

    No, it is not possible that we came from another planet because the DNA evidence shows that we and the other apes all descended from a common ancestor millions of years ago.

  360. Posted June 5, 2016 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    If we use your reasoning one could say that “supernatural beings do not exist” and declare it as a fact, even though supernatural beings may actually exist.

    How so? I freely admit that supernatural beings could exist. I just don’t know of any evidence for them.

  361. MichaelFree
    Posted June 5, 2016 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    R.A. McGough,

    You said:

    “No, it is not possible that we came from another planet because the DNA evidence shows that we and the other apes all descended from a common ancestor millions of years ago”.

    Since your answer is that it’s impossible that human beings came from another planet because our DNA shows common descent with other creatures here on Earth, why is it not possible that all creatures across the Universe, including human beings, show common descent in our DNA? Wouldn’t human-like extraterrestrial beings share similar DNA with human beings?

    You said:

    “There are plenty of facts that are “proven” by repeatable observation according to the scientific method”.

    According to the scientific method supernatural beings do not exist.

  362. Posted June 5, 2016 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Since your answer is that it’s impossible that human beings came from another planet because our DNA shows common descent with other creatures here on Earth, why is it not possible that all creatures across the Universe, including human beings, show common descent in our DNA? Wouldn’t human-like extraterrestrial beings share similar DNA with human beings?

    For “all creatures across the Universe” to “show common descent” they must share a common ancestor. The common ancestor of humans and apes goes all the way back to a small mouse-like mammal that existed 65 million years ago at the time of the extinction of the dinosaurs. It could not have been a “human like extraterrestrial.”

    According to the scientific method supernatural beings do not exist.

    Not true. The scientific method has nothing to say about the existence of things defined as immeasurable non-physical whatsits.

  363. MichaelFree
    Posted June 5, 2016 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    R.A. McGough,

    If a supernatural being exists then all scenarios for the origin of human life is possible.

  364. Posted June 5, 2016 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    If a supernatural being exists then all scenarios for the origin of human life is possible.

    I disagree. The existence of a supernatural being would not change facts into falsehoods. The facts are that humans evolved on this planet and share a common ancestor with all other mammals.

  365. MichaelFree
    Posted June 5, 2016 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    Fair enough, but I’ll remain open-minded as to the origins of human life on Earth. If any scientist wants to call me stupid or ignorant for this I will point out that saying that God doesn’t exist is just as stupid and just as ignorant.

  366. MichaelFree
    Posted June 5, 2016 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Take care man.

  367. Posted June 5, 2016 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    Fair enough, but I’ll remain open-minded as to the origins of human life on Earth. If any scientist wants to call me stupid or ignorant for this I will point out that saying that God doesn’t exist is just as stupid and just as ignorant.

    If you are not aware of the evidence for the origins of human life on earth, then you don’t need a scientist to tell you that you are ignorant. That’s a fact you could ascertain for yourself.

    I cannot think of anything “stupid or ignorant” about denying the existence of Allah, Yahweh, or Zeus since it is a demonstrable fact that those gods do not exist. So which “God” is it that you think scientists would be “stupid and ignorant” to say doesn’t exist? Can you define it? How do you know anything about this “God” if there is no evidence for it? How is it different than any other figment of your imagination?

  368. MichaelFree
    Posted June 6, 2016 at 2:13 am | Permalink

    According to Darwin’s theory of evolution man’s responsibility is to himself and life is survival of the fittest and scientific justification for this behavior is set in stone by Darwin. Darwinian evolution and theory regarding the responsibilities and duties of mankind is opposed by God’s law to not lie, to not steal, and to not murder. God would have us all living in a resort while man’s law has us all living in a prison. God is wiser than Darwin. God is wiser than man. God is wiser than “do what thou wilt”, that is for sure.

  369. MichaelFree
    Posted June 6, 2016 at 2:34 am | Permalink

    You said:

    “If you are not aware of the evidence for the origins of human life on earth, then you don’t need a scientist to tell you that you are ignorant. That’s a fact you could ascertain for yourself”.

    You know full well that human beings behavior is not in accordance with the Earth as the other animals behavior is. We act unnaturally on the Earth. Our level of intelligence and abilities far exceeds the other animals. It is entirely possible that we are a created species and not a natural species produced by the Earth. Or perhaps aliens created human beings from apes using genetic science. If this is at all possible then your set in stone philosophy that makes you so high and mighty has not been proven factual. It is absurd to think you can know the exact origin of human beings and to speak as if it’s a fact. You can speak in probability but not in fact.

    You said:

    “I cannot think of anything “stupid or ignorant” about denying the existence of Allah, Yahweh, or Zeus since it is a demonstrable fact that those gods do not exist”.

    If you’re talking about someone’s named God, with stories about their God and all of that, that’s not an argument about the existence of a God at all.

    You said:

    “So which “God” is it that you think scientists would be “stupid and ignorant” to say doesn’t exist?”

    It’s stupid and ignorant to say that things do not exist when you have no evidence to support the claim. God, after all, is an invisible being that apparently doesn’t show itself too often, if it indeed does exist.

  370. Posted June 6, 2016 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    You know full well that human beings behavior is not in accordance with the Earth as the other animals behavior is. We act unnaturally on the Earth. Our level of intelligence and abilities far exceeds the other animals.

    That’s not true at all. Humans are every bit as natural to earth as all the other animals. We eat, we poop, we have sex, we are born, we age, we die. Can you name a single organ in the human body not found in other primates? The only significant difference is we have bigger brains. Everything physical about us proves our common heritage with all the life on the planet.

    It is entirely possible that we are a created species and not a natural species produced by the Earth. Or perhaps aliens created human beings from apes using genetic science.

    Not true. It is almost impossible that such could be the case. I say “almost” because it could be that there was an “alien race” that designed our genomes to look like they evolved from a common ancestor, but that possibility is extremely remote with zero evidence and zero reason to believe it true.

    If this is at all possible then your set in stone philosophy that makes you so high and mighty has not been proven factual. It is absurd to think you can know the exact origin of human beings and to speak as if it’s a fact. You can speak in probability but not in fact.

    Talk about “high and mighty”! I have no “philosophy set in stone”. As you can see, I answer all your points with evidence that you apparently know nothing of and don’t care to learn about before making your judgments. Asserting that I act “high and mighty” because I cite established science is quite absurd.

    What exactly is “absurd” about the evidence of common descent? If you have evidence that the entire scientific community is wrong then please share it. If not, how can you feel justified to say they are all wrong?

    And again, you are mistaking the relation between “fact” and “probability.” By your definition, there are no “facts” because nothing can be known with absolute certainty.

  371. Posted June 6, 2016 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    According to Darwin’s theory of evolution man’s responsibility is to himself and life is survival of the fittest and scientific justification for this behavior is set in stone by Darwin.

    Not true. Evolution has nothing to say about moral issues of “responsibility”. That’s a philosophical issue (and we all know how good philosophy is at settling such questions, LOL).

    And it’s not “Darwin’s” theory anyway. The Theory of Evolution has evolved far beyond anything Darwin could have imagined. He didn’t even know about DNA which is central to the modern theory of evolution. Darwin was merely a founder of the theory. Creationists reveal their ignorance when they constantly harp on Darwin as if the theory somehow depends on his authority. It does not.

    Darwinian evolution and theory regarding the responsibilities and duties of mankind is opposed by God’s law to not lie, to not steal, and to not murder.

    Not true. There are very good reasons humans evolved morality. It is the natural extension of self-preservation applied to the group, and it is seen in other primates.

    God would have us all living in a resort while man’s law has us all living in a prison. God is wiser than Darwin. God is wiser than man. God is wiser than “do what thou wilt”, that is for sure.

    If God is so wise, why does he need mere humans to speak for him? And why does he not clear up all the confusion? The most fervent believers cannot agree about him, his nature, his law, or even which books belong in his Bible. Your appeal to “God” and “His Law” strikes me as utterly idiosyncratic and without a shred of evidence. Are you now saying you are a Bible believer? Or do you accept only the Gospels? I thought you rejected the rest that paints God as a genocidal maniac. I really can’t follow your logic. Sorry.

  372. MichaelFree
    Posted June 6, 2016 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    You said:

    “Not true. It is almost impossible that such could be the case. I say “almost” because it could be that there was an “alien race” that designed our genomes to look like they evolved from a common ancestor, but that possibility is extremely remote with zero evidence and zero reason to believe it true”.

    This whole time I’ve been arguing that the evolutionary story as told by science might not be entirely factual. So thanks. The evolutionary theory has an extremely high probability of being factual but it has yet to be proven factual.

    You said:

    “Talk about “high and mighty”! I have no “philosophy set in stone”. As you can see, I answer all your points with evidence that you apparently know nothing of and don’t care to learn about before making your judgments. Asserting that I act “high and mighty” because I cite established science is quite absurd”.

    The only thing high and mighty is declaring the theory of evolution story regarding the origin of human beings as established fact. You yourself allow for the possibility that aliens created human beings from Neanderthals which goes against the theory big time. Also, you can try out your bullshit line to be dismissive of me about how I’m a layperson who doesn’t care to learn about the science, but that crap doesn’t fly when you yourself admit that there are other possibilities for the origin of human life besides that proposed by the theory. A layperson got you to admit a potential chink in the evolution story armor, how do you like them apples?

    You said:

    “What exactly is “absurd” about the evidence of common descent? If you have evidence that the entire scientific community is wrong then please share it. If not, how can you feel justified to say they are all wrong?”

    I have never said that the theory of evolution is wrong, in fact, I believe it to be true. I do know however that it is theory and not a fact. The probability of it being true is so high that to not take it seriously is to show a disregard for the truth.

  373. MichaelFree
    Posted June 6, 2016 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    You said:

    “Not true. Evolution has nothing to say about moral issues of “responsibility”. That’s a philosophical issue (and we all know how good philosophy is at settling such questions, LOL).”

    The theory of evolution says that we are animals and therefore life is a survival of the fittest. Science then goes on to say that when we die we are dead and we have no souls. Anyone who is weaned and raised on this foundation is given a scientific basis to justify immoral words and immoral deeds that are done to further one’s personal goals in life, after all, don’t you know, it’s science…

    You said:

    “If God is so wise, why does he need mere humans to speak for him?”

    You speak for him Richard, and so does everyone else, when not being lied to, not being stolen from, and not being murdered is our preferred method of being treated by other people.

    You said:

    “And why does he not clear up all the confusion?”

    I don’t know if there is a God-being or not, I believe that there is a God-being though.

    You said:

    “The most fervent believers cannot agree about him, his nature, his law, or even which books belong in his Bible. Your appeal to “God” and “His Law” strikes me as utterly idiosyncratic and without a shred of evidence.”

    I was talking about a law that is built into you as a human being. The Ten Commandments got these three laws right. I don’t respect a God that breaks these laws though, as the character Yahweh does. Other religions besides Abrahamic religions also profess these same laws; they are not unique to the Bible.

    You said:

    “Are you now saying you are a Bible believer?”

    No, but I do know that these three laws are a genuine path of righteousness.

    You said:

    “Or do you accept only the Gospels?”

    To me the Gospels and much of the Bible are witchcraft, a game of duality, a test, an evil trick, so no, I do not accept any part of the Bible as a whole. I can cherry-pick good laws from the Bible and test them, and if they are righteous, I can learn something from them and put them into use, both in how I interact with the world and also in how I judge that which occurs around me.

    Take care

  374. Posted June 6, 2016 at 6:30 pm | Permalink
    Not true. It is almost impossible that such could be the case. I say “almost” because it could be that there was an “alien race” that designed our genomes to look like they evolved from a common ancestor, but that possibility is extremely remote with zero evidence and zero reason to believe it true”.

    This whole time I’ve been arguing that the evolutionary story as told by science might not be entirely factual. So thanks. The evolutionary theory has an extremely high probability of being factual but it has yet to be proven factual.

    I think the confusion is caused by mistaking scientific facts for “absolute truths” rather than “verifiable observations.” There is almost nothing in the world that can be proved absolutely because our perceptions could be faulty, or we could live in the matrix, or maybe we are so insane that we only think we see what we see. This is the subject of epistemology, the theory of knowledge. It has nothing to with whether or not evolution is a “fact.”

    There also is a confusion about the relation between scientific theories and facts. A theory is not a fact – it is an explanation of the facts. A theory is a set of principles designed to explain a body of facts. The facts are gathered by observation and the theory is tested to see if it accounts for all the facts, with bonus points if it is able to predict facts that had not been previously observed. The theory of evolution is distinct from the facts of evolution, just as the theory of gravity is distinct from the facts of gravity. When we say “gravity is a fact” we are not talking about the theory of gravity which has changed over time. Newton’s theory of gravity ruled supreme for about 400 years until it was overthrown by Einstein’s theory. Gravity remained an observable fact even as Newton’s theory of gravity was falsified and rejected. Likewise, the theory of evolution replaced the “God did it” pseudo-theory because it best explains the facts. And what are those facts? Look at the fossil record. Look at the patterns of DNA between species. Look at the Phylogenetic Tree of Life. All these facts are best explained by the theory of evolution. The “God did it” theory was never really a theory at all because it explained nothing and predicts nothing.

    “Talk about “high and mighty”! I have no “philosophy set in stone”. As you can see, I answer all your points with evidence that you apparently know nothing of and don’t care to learn about before making your judgments. Asserting that I act “high and mighty” because I cite established science is quite absurd”.

    The only thing high and mighty is declaring the theory of evolution story regarding the origin of human beings as established fact. You yourself allow for the possibility that aliens created human beings from Neanderthals which goes against the theory big time. Also, you can try out your bullshit line to be dismissive of me about how I’m a layperson who doesn’t care to learn about the science, but that crap doesn’t fly when you yourself admit that there are other possibilities for the origin of human life besides that proposed by the theory. A layperson got you to admit a potential chink in the evolution story armor, how do you like them apples?

    Again, you are mistaking scientific facts for “absolute truths” rather than “verifiable observations.” I admit that there are possibilities like aliens and the matrix because that is the truth. But that does not mean that there are no scientific facts like gravity, electromagnetism, and evolution. You argument against evolution would apply equally to gravity if it were valid. So are you saying that gravity is not a fact because it is possible that undetectable fairies are pulling us toward the ground with invisible ropes?

    I love your apples. When they fall, they reveal the fact of gravity even though it is “possible” that space aliens are pulling them down with their sci-fi tractor beams.

    “What exactly is “absurd” about the evidence of common descent? If you have evidence that the entire scientific community is wrong then please share it. If not, how can you feel justified to say they are all wrong?”

    I have never said that the theory of evolution is wrong, in fact, I believe it to be true. I do know however that it is theory and not a fact. The probability of it being true is so high that to not take it seriously is to show a disregard for the truth.

    Again, your comments confuse the meaning of scientific theories and scientific facts.

    And I can’t understand how a theory could be “not wrong” while at the same time it is “not true”. It looks this is another example of mistaking facts as “absolute truths” as opposed to “verifiable observations.” I see the same problem when you say that “the evolutionary story as told by science might not be entirely factual” even as you admit that while it also has an extremely high probability of being true. It seems to me it all comes down to a confusion of language and an unfamiliarity with science and the scientific method.

    I trust you now understand why it makes no sense to say that “the theory of evolution is not entirely factual.” The theory of evolution is an explanation of the facts of evolution. Did you mean to say that you reject the facts of evolution (fossils, DNA, etc.)?

  375. Posted June 6, 2016 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    The theory of evolution says that we are animals and therefore life is a survival of the fittest. Science then goes on to say that when we die we are dead and we have no souls. Anyone who is weaned and raised on this foundation is given a scientific basis to justify immoral words and immoral deeds that are done to further one’s personal goals in life, after all, don’t you know, it’s science…

    When science says we are animals, it speaks the truth. Do you deny that humans are animals?

    Science does not say that “life” (simpliciter) “is a survival of the fittest.” That would depend on what you mean by “life” and I get the impression you are equivocating on that word which can refer to anything from basic biological function to the meaning of life for a human (and everything in between). A lot of confusion comes from a careless use of language.

    Science does not say “when we die we are dead.” Science says “when the body dies, it is dead.”

    Science does not say we have no souls. Science says that there is not enough evidence to justify the assertion that we do.

    People raised on “science” have no less reason to be moral than anyone else.

    I do not see a single word in your comment that I could accept as true.

    If God is so wise, why does he need mere humans to speak for him?

    You speak for him Richard, and so does everyone else, when not being lied to, not being stolen from, and not being murdered is our preferred method of being treated by other people.

    I see no reason to think there is a “god” we are speaking for when in fact we can see that we are speaking for our own common humanity. Morals come from the love of self that is then reflected in and extended to others.

    “And why does he not clear up all the confusion?”

    I don’t know if there is a God-being or not, I believe that there is a God-being though.

    That’s cool. I have no problem with your intuition that there is a god. I used to have that intuition but don’t anymore. I think it is based on the same brain function that enables us to understand minds in other primates. It’s projected by our imagination onto a “superman” in the sky.

    “The most fervent believers cannot agree about him, his nature, his law, or even which books belong in his Bible. Your appeal to “God” and “His Law” strikes me as utterly idiosyncratic and without a shred of evidence.”

    I was talking about a law that is built into you as a human being. The Ten Commandments got these three laws right. I don’t respect a God that breaks these laws though, as the character Yahweh does. Other religions besides Abrahamic religions also profess these same laws; they are not unique to the Bible.

    Yes, morality derives from our humanity. It is reflected to greater or lesser degrees in the religious books people write. But the Ten Commandments are not a good reflection of that. It begins with a command to believe in Yahweh which has nothing to do with real morality. And neither does refraining from making “idols” or obeying the Sabbath have anything to do with real morality.

    “Are you now saying you are a Bible believer?”

    No, but I do know that these three laws are a genuine path of righteousness.

    Those “three laws” derive from the human heart, not the Bible (as you well know).

    “Or do you accept only the Gospels?”

    To me the Gospels and much of the Bible are witchcraft, a game of duality, a test, an evil trick, so no, I do not accept any part of the Bible as a whole. I can cherry-pick good laws from the Bible and test them, and if they are righteous, I can learn something from them and put them into use, both in how I interact with the world and also in how I judge that which occurs around me.

    It’s great that you know what you are doing. But I don’t see how the Bible adds any value. On the contrary, appealing to the Bible is a big negative because it has a lot of horrible baggage and could easily mislead people (like me) into think you believe the whole thing. Why confuse the issue? Why not toss the Bible and speak straight from the heart. That’s where your morals really come from anyway.

    Great chatting,

    Richard

  376. MichaelFree
    Posted June 7, 2016 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Fossils in fact do exist. DNA in fact does exist. Human beings in fact are animals. Human beings evolving naturally from Neanderthals has yet to be proven to be factual and to go around proclaiming otherwise amounts to politics and fundamentalism. The theory that human beings evolved naturally from Neanderthals is fine, but it is a theory, and has yet to be proven factual in the way that fossils or DNA’s existence has been proven factual.

    Regarding the Gospels, I found a baby in them, and I won’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. The bathwater itself is poison though. People’s hearts differ in regard to how we want to treat other people in life but people’s hearts are very much the same in how we want to be treated by other people in life.

    That’s my two cents for today.

  377. Simon M
    Posted June 8, 2016 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    “How would it possible to accurately “explain” your claims about a series of coincidences without using the word “coincidence”? Your video (which was very well done by the way) is based fundamentally on the fact that some dates and shapes coincide. That is the definition of “coincidence.” Before asking others to answer your question, I think you need to explain why anyone should think coincidences are evidence of anything.”

    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for the kind words about my video. I appreciate it! Your question is very good. I would very much like to respond, and to have a fruitful discussion about it with you, but this thread has “evolved” into something quite different, and it does not seem like the appropriate place to have such a discussion.

    I’d really like to be able to discuss my video and the results of my research without descending into any kind of slanging match, or having it hinge on a discussion of whether or not Christianity is true, or the Bible is moral, or evolution is a fact, or the Big Bang happened, or really any of those things. If that sounds like an impossible goal, then so be it, but really that’s exactly my point. Only once it is possible to move the discussion past this sense of a pitched battle between committed positions will progress be made.

    In my view, the results I have arrived at provide a very useful independent perspective on the entire Bible Wheel discovery, and to even go one step further, they may even offer a potential route to being able to test the whole question of whether or not the patterns you have discovered are evidence of intentionality, or whether they are simply a product of chance, and skewed perception.

    How can we create a space, or a forum, where these very subtle questions can be examined and subjected to critical scrutiny without falling back into mere polemics? This might seem an odd way to answer that question, (and please don’t take any offence, as absolutely none is intended), but I have really been waiting to discuss it with a person whom I will call “Richard McGough Mark III”.

    To explain what I mean: in this classification system, “Richard McGough Mark I” was the author of the BibleWheel book and website. “Richard McGough Mark II” was the author of the debunking of this same research. The man I want to discuss this with is a “Richard McGough Mark III” who has moved beyond the need to argue either side of the dichotomy of Christian versus non-Christian, who is neither a defender nor a debunker of this material, but willing to examine this new evidence that I have brought to the table in a completely new light.

    Frankly I don’t know if that is ever going to be possible, or if a suitable forum for that discussion can be created. I live in hope. Maybe the time has come. Aren’t you tired of these arguments with Christians now? Surely everything that has been said based on existing material on the table has now been said.

    This post asked the question: is there something bigger to the BibleWheel? I would contend that my video and research offers a very direct and specific response to this question. But I don’t want to discuss it only to end up in a slanging match, or to fall back on any existing positions. How, where and when can we do that?

    All the best to you,

    Simon

  378. Posted June 10, 2016 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    Thanks for the kind words about my video. I appreciate it! Your question is very good. I would very much like to respond, and to have a fruitful discussion about it with you, but this thread has “evolved” into something quite different, and it does not seem like the appropriate place to have such a discussion.

    I’d really like to be able to discuss my video and the results of my research without descending into any kind of slanging match, or having it hinge on a discussion of whether or not Christianity is true, or the Bible is moral, or evolution is a fact, or the Big Bang happened, or really any of those things. If that sounds like an impossible goal, then so be it, but really that’s exactly my point. Only once it is possible to move the discussion past this sense of a pitched battle between committed positions will progress be made.

    In my view, the results I have arrived at provide a very useful independent perspective on the entire Bible Wheel discovery, and to even go one step further, they may even offer a potential route to being able to test the whole question of whether or not the patterns you have discovered are evidence of intentionality, or whether they are simply a product of chance, and skewed perception.

    Hey there Simon,

    I am glad you are pursuing this. I too am very interested in discussing your work because it centers on the question of when (and if) “coincidence” should be taken as evidence of “design.” I actually started a new post on this topic in response to your comment in this thread but got distracted. I’m glad you brought it up again. I’ve got a lot going on right now, but hopefully I’ll get the new post written this weekend and we can discuss your work there. I’ll do my best to prevent it from being derailed like this thread. I see no reason we cannot be successful in our discussion.

    Talk more soon,

    Richard

  379. Posted June 10, 2016 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    Fossils in fact do exist. DNA in fact does exist. Human beings in fact are animals. Human beings evolving naturally from Neanderthals has yet to be proven to be factual and to go around proclaiming otherwise amounts to politics and fundamentalism. The theory that human beings evolved naturally from Neanderthals is fine, but it is a theory, and has yet to be proven factual in the way that fossils or DNA’s existence has been proven factual.

    Hey there Michael,

    It seems you are still confused about the relation between scientific theories and facts. When we talk about fossils and DNA as “factual” we are not merely saying that it is a “fact” that they exist. We are talking about the facts that they reveal about human evolution. The fossils show how humans evolved over a span of millions of years. The DNA confirms that fact and shows how we, the Neanderthals, and all the other primates evolved from a common ancestor millions of years ago. (It is not correct to say that humans evolved from Neanderthals. We simply share a common ancestor.)

    So which of these facts are you denying? That the fossil record shows a progression of forms from apelike to human? That the DNA shows a common ancestor?

  380. not MichaelFree
    Posted June 10, 2016 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    “So which of these facts are you denying? That the fossil record shows a progression of forms from apelike to human? That the DNA shows a common ancestor?”

    Whilst it is true that evolutionists like to present these assertions as untroubled by serious dissent, in fact, there are thoughtful informed commentators who do disagree. In fact, this very topic has recently been covered in a series of excellent posts at evolutionnews.org, which are highly recommended for those curious on the topic. They are in response to a recent series of articles by Professor Denis Venema of Trinity Western University, making exactly the kind of assertions Richard has made above.

    Prof Venema’s articles may be found here
    http://biologos.org/blogs/dennis-venema-letters-to-the-duchess/evolution-basics-genomes-as-ancient-texts-part-1
    http://biologos.org/blogs/dennis-venema-letters-to-the-duchess/evolution-basics-genomes-as-ancient-texts-part-2

    The fascinating and thought provoking responses to these articles, with an alternative viewpoint, may be found here:

    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2016/05/toward_a_consen102879.html
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2016/05/the_naked_ape_a102881.html
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2016/05/human_chromosom102884.html

    Highly recommended.

  381. Posted June 10, 2016 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    Whilst it is true that evolutionists like to present these assertions as untroubled by serious dissent, in fact, there are thoughtful informed commentators who do disagree.

    I read the links of those “dissenters” but didn’t see any evidence that evolution didn’t happen or that common descent is false. So what’s the point?

  382. MichaelFree
    Posted June 10, 2016 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    I’m not qualified to interpret fossils or DNA, so I’m not inclined to even engage in a discussion about “common descent” at all.

    However, nothing in the theory of evolution rules out an intelligent designer being present and active at the point of origen of the human species, whether that intelligent designer was an extraterrestrial being engaging in genetic science or a God creating human beings here on Earth. Nothing in science proves that we are not created beings.

  383. Posted June 11, 2016 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    I’m not qualified to interpret fossils or DNA, so I’m not inclined to even engage in a discussion about “common descent” at all.

    However, nothing in the theory of evolution rules out an intelligent designer being present and active at the point of origen of the human species, whether that intelligent designer was an extraterrestrial being engaging in genetic science or a God creating human beings here on Earth. Nothing in science proves that we are not created beings.

    That’s right Michael. There could be an “intelligent designer” who designed things to look exactly like the theory of evolution says things happened. No one could prove you wrong if that’s what you want to believe. But you have not given any reason to believe such an extravagant hypothesis so Occam’s razor cuts it clean away.

  384. MichaelFree
    Posted June 11, 2016 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    My point has been that as long as there is another possibility regarding the origin of the human species besides that proposed by evolutionary biology then you shouldn’t speak in terms of knowing but rather speak in terms of believing.

    Occam’s razor would also call the existence of extraterrestrial beings or a God “extravagant” and cut any notion of their existence away.

    Occam’s razor would also call people’s reported near death experiences artifacts of brain activity rather than evidence of having a soul. “Having a soul” is cut clean away by Occam’s razor. “Having a soul” is extravagant in the extreme according to science.

    Human beings are complex beings. The Universe is extremely complex. To assume that science has it all figured out is arrogant and close-minded.

  385. MichaelFree
    Posted June 11, 2016 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    On Earth, if we lived in a scientific dictatorship it would look and feel exactly like a religious dictatorship. All free thinking and exploration of all conceivable and possible hypothesis would be banned. The ruler’s rod would be called Occam’s razor.

  386. Posted June 11, 2016 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    My point has been that as long as there is another possibility regarding the origin of the human species besides that proposed by evolutionary biology then you shouldn’t speak in terms of knowing but rather speak in terms of believing.

    And my answer to that point has been that as long as there is a possibility that we are in the matrix then you can’t speak in terms of “knowing” that you are even a human being! You could be a genetically engineered brain in a vat in an alien laboratory for all you “know”.

    By your standards, there is almost nothing that anyone can say that they “know”. You certainly do not “know” that you even existed five minutes ago, because it is “possible” that the space aliens created you four minutes ago with false memories. Your radical skepticism destroys the possibility of almost everything we call “knowledge”.

    Occam’s razor would also call the existence of extraterrestrial beings or a God “extravagant” and cut any notion of their existence away.

    As well it should, since Occam’s razor cuts away unnecessary hypotheses. If there were facts best explained by aliens or gods, then we would have reason to include them as hypotheses in our theories. But until they are needed we have no reason to include them in our theories.

    I get the impression that rejection of including a hypothesis in a theory is the same as saying the hypothesis is false. That’s not what’s going on at all. I believe there probably are space aliens because life appears to have formed naturally. But that doesn’t mean I include “space aliens” as a hypothesis in any theories.

    Occam’s razor would also call people’s reported near death experiences artifacts of brain activity rather than evidence of having a soul. “Having a soul” is cut clean away by Occam’s razor. “Having a soul” is extravagant in the extreme according to science.

    No, it is not Occam’s razor that would call NDEs artifacts of brain experience. That’s not how it works. Occam’s razor would say it is fine to hypothesize the existence of a soul as an explanation if the evidence requires it. It is the EVIDENCE that would say whether or not the soul hypothesis is necessary. Does it best explain the evidence? If yes, then there is reason to believe it. If not, then toss it.

    The only reason science would say that “having a soul is extravagant in the extreme” is because of the LACK OF EVIDENCE for the hypothesis. Science has no problem with any hypothesis if it is the best explanation of the data.

    Human beings are complex beings. The Universe is extremely complex. To assume that science has it all figured out is arrogant and close-minded.

    Entertaining unfounded hypotheses inherited from our primitive ancestors is not being “humble and open-minded.”

  387. Posted June 11, 2016 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    On Earth, if we lived in a scientific dictatorship it would look and feel exactly like a religious dictatorship. All free thinking and exploration of all conceivable and possible hypothesis would be banned. The ruler’s rod would be called Occam’s razor.

    Not true. The concept of a “dictatorship” is the antithesis of science which is based fundamentally on the values of free thinking, open-mindedness, and “the exploration of all conceivable and possible hypotheses.”

    And again, you seem confused about Occam’s razor. It is used to sharpen theories by eliminating unneeded hypotheses, not to limit the range of possibilities to be considered.

  388. MichaelFree
    Posted June 11, 2016 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    You said:

    “And my answer to that point has been that as long as there is a possibility that we are in the matrix then you can’t speak in terms of “knowing” that you are even a human being! You could be a genetically engineered brain in a vat in an alien laboratory for all you “know”.”

    This is why I included both extraterrestrial beings and God in my example. God is comparable to the matrix. Advanced extraterrestrial beings is comparable to advanced human beings. You can “pink unicorn” God but you cannot “pink unicorn” advanced extraterrestrial beings. It’s a vast Universe. The possibility that there are other advanced life forms in the Universe is more probable than improbable.

    You said:

    “By your standards, there is almost nothing that anyone can say that they “know”. You certainly do not “know” that you even existed five minutes ago, because it is “possible” that the space aliens created you four minutes ago with false memories. Your radical skepticism destroys the possibility of almost everything we call “knowledge”.”

    You would like to lower my standards to the matrix. You do not know for a fact what happened at the point of human origins.

    You said:

    “I get the impression that rejection of including a hypothesis in a theory is the same as saying the hypothesis is false. That’s not what’s going on at all.”

    No, you just go around purporting to know and proclaiming as fact that human beings evolved naturally on Earth. I’m finding out “scientific fact” is completely different than actual “fact”. Maybe that’s where the confusion comes from.

    You said:

    “Occam’s razor would say it is fine to hypothesize the existence of a soul as an explanation if the evidence requires it. It is the EVIDENCE that would say whether or not the soul hypothesis is necessary. Does it best explain the evidence? If yes, then there is reason to believe it. If not, then toss it.”

    In this particular case, all NDEs are subjective experiences and are not observable and measurable phenomenon by others. The objective evidence is brain activity. Science as a whole dismisses the subjective experience of the person who experiences NDE. If your hypothesis is that human beings have souls then how could you possibly prove it, it’s unprovable! I don’t know about all scientists but science scoffs at human beings having a soul.

    You said:

    “The only reason science would say that “having a soul is extravagant in the extreme” is because of the LACK OF EVIDENCE for the hypothesis.”

    Yeah, go ahead and forget the MILLIONS of people who have had NDEs and who have have described their similar experiences, across cultures, across religions, across all peoples. I guess millions of similar subjective experiences is considered “lack of evidence”.

    You said:

    “Not true. The concept of a “dictatorship” is the antithesis of science which is based fundamentally on the values of free thinking, open-mindedness, and “the exploration of all conceivable and possible hypotheses.””

    I’m glad you feel that way about science. I feel this way about life generally, and I’m sure you do to.

    You said:

    “And again, you seem confused about Occam’s razor. It is used to sharpen theories by eliminating unneeded hypotheses, not to limit the range of possibilities.”

    I’m not confused about Occam’s razor at all. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of it before you said it. I searched on teh web for it and found it’s Wikipedia article. I’m sure it doesn’t exclude other hypothesis, however you are completely dismissive of an “intelligent designer” when you said “That’s right Michael. There could be an “intelligent designer” who designed things to look exactly like the theory of evolution says things happened. No one could prove you wrong if that’s what you want to believe. But you have not given any reason to believe such an extravagant hypothesis so Occam’s razor cuts it clean away”. My believing that there is a possibility that human beings origins might have had a participant besides nature like an alien or a God is for good reason, but I’m not trying to convince science of this, but rather pointing out that there is a difference between “scientific fact” and “actual fact”–again, you do not know for a fact what happened at the point of human origins.

  389. Simon M
    Posted June 11, 2016 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

    “I see no reason we cannot be successful in our discussion.”

    Ah. Let me predict exactly what will happen.

    Your response to my video presentation will conclude that absolutely nothing can be inferred from any of the patterns or connections that I have outlined which deviates in even the smallest way from your conclusions about the BibleWheel. Your language will be polite, but firm, and there will be not the slightest shred of doubt in your assertions, or room for alternative suggestions.

    If I should raise any points in response which seek to establish any alternative viewpoint to these conclusions, however minor, you will take each point I make and forcefully rebut each and every one. You will concede nothing. No suggest which I make which is in the slightest disagreement with your assertions will be given any credence whatsoever.

    If I accept these rebuttals, all will be “well”. But if I persist, you will begin to hammer each point relentlessly. If I should still persist, your language will begin to change. I will be called “confused”, “ignorant”, a “denier” of “facts”, or worse.

    There will be no possibility, even remotely, that any point I make will result in you changing your mind, or conceding that there is even a chance I might have contributed an idea of value, or something worth considering. Nothing but complete and absolute victory for you will be acceptable. In the end, I will have no choice except to simply give up and walk away, like every other visitor to these pages in the last 15 years. You will have “won”, and you will turn your attention to the next person who comes here to comment. Rinse, and repeat.

    Very sad, but true. But go ahead, write up your response. Please note however that I will not be entering into the kind of discussion outlined above. I just don’t do internet arguments. They are pointless. With all respect to you, I’m waiting for Richard McGough Mark III, as I said, with whom I hold out the hope that a much more mutually fruitful discussion will take place.

  390. Posted June 12, 2016 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    “I see no reason we cannot be successful in our discussion.”

    Ah. Let me predict exactly what will happen.

    Wow. What happened to you Simon? There has been nothing in my interaction with you that would justify your accusations against me. Your “predictions” are demonstrably false. You should know this because I have responded to your claims many times over a span of years and they have never been anything like the caricature you have invented. Case in point: I responded to you in this thread on May 11, 2016. You had suggested that people should try to explain the coincidences you have found without using the word “coincidence.” Here was my response:

    ==== ANSWER TO SIMON ON MAY 11 ======

    Here’s a fun exercise. Put aside everything you think you know about how the world works, and watch my video The Whirling Wheels. Now “explain” how Richard McGough came up with the idea of the Biblewheel on the exact day of the completion of the 2,200th year since the Antikythera device was calibrated. You can’t. There is no explanation. Don’t use the word co-incidence, it is meaningless. Don’t use the word God, which is equally meaningless. You are basically completely lost in the ocean of unknowing. There is no explanation. There is nothing to say in the teeth of our complete ignorance, except perhaps “wow”. There is no conclusion except to realise you know nothing.

    Hey there Simon,

    How would it be possible to accurately “explain” your claims about a series of coincidences without using the word “coincidence”? Your video (which was very well done by the way) is based fundamentally on the fact that some dates and shapes coincide. That is the definition of “coincidence.” Before asking others to answer your question, I think you need to explain why anyone should think coincidences are evidence of anything. Meaningless coincidences happen every day. If you want to claim that there is some “meaning” or reason to go “wow” when seeing a coincidence, you need to have a method to discern between meaningful and meaningless coincidences. Taking coincidences as “evidence” is one of the primary errors that leads to belief in crazy things like astrology, Tarot, pyramid power, Scientology, God, and religions. I explain how this mistake misled me in these two articles:

    Debunking Myself: What A Long Strange Trip It’s Been

    Debunking Myself: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

    I am really glad you brought this up because it touches the absolute core of how people come to believe “weird things” that are not actually supported by logic and facts, evidence and reason. I began writing a long detailed response to your last post but got distracted so now I will finish it. Until then,

    All the best,

    Richard

    =======================================

    As you can see, I did nothing by try to reason with you. There is nothing in my response that would justify the aspersions you cast at me.

    Here is how you responded on June 8:

    ==== SIMON’S ANSWER ON JUNE 8 ======

    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for the kind words about my video. I appreciate it! Your question is very good. I would very much like to respond, and to have a fruitful discussion about it with you, but this thread has “evolved” into something quite different, and it does not seem like the appropriate place to have such a discussion.

    I’d really like to be able to discuss my video and the results of my research without descending into any kind of slanging match, or having it hinge on a discussion of whether or not Christianity is true, or the Bible is moral, or evolution is a fact, or the Big Bang happened, or really any of those things. If that sounds like an impossible goal, then so be it, but really that’s exactly my point. Only once it is possible to move the discussion past this sense of a pitched battle between committed positions will progress be made.

    In my view, the results I have arrived at provide a very useful independent perspective on the entire Bible Wheel discovery, and to even go one step further, they may even offer a potential route to being able to test the whole question of whether or not the patterns you have discovered are evidence of intentionality, or whether they are simply a product of chance, and skewed perception.

    How can we create a space, or a forum, where these very subtle questions can be examined and subjected to critical scrutiny without falling back into mere polemics? This might seem an odd way to answer that question, (and please don’t take any offence, as absolutely none is intended), but I have really been waiting to discuss it with a person whom I will call “Richard McGough Mark III”.

    To explain what I mean: in this classification system, “Richard McGough Mark I” was the author of the BibleWheel book and website. “Richard McGough Mark II” was the author of the debunking of this same research. The man I want to discuss this with is a “Richard McGough Mark III” who has moved beyond the need to argue either side of the dichotomy of Christian versus non-Christian, who is neither a defender nor a debunker of this material, but willing to examine this new evidence that I have brought to the table in a completely new light.

    Frankly I don’t know if that is ever going to be possible, or if a suitable forum for that discussion can be created. I live in hope. Maybe the time has come. Aren’t you tired of these arguments with Christians now? Surely everything that has been said based on existing material on the table has now been said.

    This post asked the question: is there something bigger to the BibleWheel? I would contend that my video and research offers a very direct and specific response to this question. But I don’t want to discuss it only to end up in a slanging match, or to fall back on any existing positions. How, where and when can we do that?

    All the best to you,

    Simon

    And finally, here is my last answer to you before you lost your mind and began spewing false and unfounded accusations at me (link):

    ======= ANSWER TO SIMON ON JUNE 10 ============

    Hey there Simon,

    I am glad you are pursuing this. I too am very interested in discussing your work because it centers on the question of when (and if) “coincidence” should be taken as evidence of “design.” I actually started a new post on this topic in response to your comment in this thread but got distracted. I’m glad you brought it up again. I’ve got a lot going on right now, but hopefully I’ll get the new post written this weekend and we can discuss your work there. I’ll do my best to prevent it from being derailed like this thread. I see no reason we cannot be successful in our discussion.

    Talk more soon,

    Richard

    ===============================================

    As you can see, there is absolutely NOTHING in our interaction that would justify your false accusations against me. Not. One. Word. Ironically, your accusations do seem to be an accurate representation of the attitude you held while falsely accusing me.

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