The comment stream under my article Debunking Myself: What A Long Strange Trip Its Been diverged to the question of “evidence for God” presented by Wesley Steinbrink so I moved his comments to this new thread (link) and will be answering here.
Where is the evidence for God?
There is evidence in creation…
Kinesin – found in animal, plant, and fungus cells.
How can you explain that micro machine?
How can you explain all the newly found micro machines?
The fact that science cannot explain all facts is not evidence for any God. This is nothing but the long refuted “God of the Gaps” argument.
There is evidence in the Big Bang…
How was order to come out of such a chaotic event?
How did we end up on a co-rotational radius
(steady for millions of years) of a spiral galaxy
in between the less safe radial arms?
The Big Bang directly contradicts the creation myth in the Bible. There is, therefore, nothing more ironic (or absurd) than Bible believing Christians appealing to it as evidence for their God. The first verse is false because the earth was formed about nine billion years after the Big Bang not “in the beginning” at the same time as the “heavens.” Likewise, it is ludicrous to assert that the sun and stars were created on the “fourth day” after the supposedly simultaneous creation of the “heaven and earth” in the “beginning.” There is no concordance between science and the Biblical creation myth.
This again is nothing but a “God of the Gaps” argument. The “order” of nature is explained by the existence of natural laws. We do not need to invoke God to explain how raindrops refract light to create a rainbow. We do not need to invoke God to explain the existence of thunder and lightning. More sophisticated believers try to argue that the laws themselves are in need of explanation, but that fails because the laws can be accepted as eternal and necessary, just like the God proposed by the believers. This is a much simpler hypothesis that accounts for all the evidence so it is to be preferred over the extravagant and insufficiently motivated assumption of an anthropomorphic magic man in the sky.
There is evidence in the Big Bang…
Logical inference concerning what kind of Being
is behind / beyond the Universe and its making
Fred Heeren asserts that “the Being must be outside of time and space” (source). He simply ignores the fact that his assertion is logically incoherent and hence impossible to believe. The problem is that any act, such as the act of creating, necessarily entails time. If God were timeless and chose to create the universe, he would have to go from a state of “not having created a universe” to a state of “having created a universe.” That implies he was not timeless and we see that Heeren’s assertion is self-contradictory and necessarily false. And even if such a God were logically possible, it would irrelevant since it is nothing like the anthropomorphic God described in the Bible.
Fred Heeren is a fascinating fellow.He is a legitimate science journalist who has had articles published in Scientific American, Nature, the Smithsonian, and other prominent publications. He is an old earth creationist firmly convinced by the evidence for evolution. He the president of evolutionstory.com (Day Star Research). He wrote a booklet called Ending the War on Science and Culture: When Christians Act Childish, Everyone Loses.
My work on science news stories has given me the opportunity to become acquainted with the work of cosmologists, paleontologists, and biologists around the world. It’s also helped me see the way their discoveries are misunderstood by those who view them as a threat to their faith. Having seen the fossils coming out of the ground for myself (seeing, for example, hominids demonstrating increasing cranial capacities over time), I have firsthand knowledge of how we know what we know about hominid evolution. At the same time, having once been “grounded,” first in young earth creationism and later in Intelligent Design thinking myself, I also have firsthand knowledge of the struggles of religious conservatives. But I’ve learned how unnecessary those struggles are. Now I’m excited about getting the word out about what I’ve learned—from God’s world, from God’s Word, and even from God’s atheists.
It is quite ironic that anyone would cite Fred Heeren in support of the idea that science provides “evidence for God” since Fred Heeren says exactly the opposite. Here is the description of his beliefs (source):
Heeren believes that people of faith should not try to scientifically prove God. After all, if science had such a power, what worth would faith have? Heeren says that science is powerless to coerce either belief or unbelief. But the sense of wonder it excites in people of all beliefs may inspire them to further investigations beyond science, in philosophical or religious realms.
Returning to Wesley’s comments:
There is evidence in the longevity of the Israelites…
How did they survive as a people without a nation?
It is exceedingly ironic to appeal to the nightmarish history of Israel as proof that their loving and trustworthy God has been watching over them! This video says it all: Inmates in Auschwitz put God on Trial.
I see no evidence that requires a supernatural explanation. Believers simply cherry pick the Bible for quotes from God that support what they want to believe while ignoring all the failed promises. For example, the Bible quotes God as plainly stating that there never would be a time when a son of David was not sitting on the throne of Israel:
Thus says the LORD: ‘If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season, ‘then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My ministers. (Jeremiah 33:20-21)
That promise has failed for over two thousand years. And there are hundreds of similar failures. For example, Hugh Ross (another old earth creationist who makes very similar claims as Heeren) , asserts that there are “about two thousand prophecies fulfilled to the letter – no errors.” His assertion is literally insane (there’s no nice way to say it), as I proved in my article Two Thousand Reasons to Believe that Dr. Hugh Ross Might Not Be Entirely Credible. Simply stated, it is simply irrational to believe the Bible is trustworthy.
There is evidence in the Dead Sea Scrolls…
They contain Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 with prophecy
of Christ that Jesus could not fulfill by Himself.
Consider that the Dead Sea Scrolls were carbon
dated placing them before Jesus was on earth.
The fact that those stories were written before Christ proves nothing. There was nothing to stop the gospel writers from making up stories to fit bits and pieces they cherry picked from the Old Testament. For example, we have no evidence that the Roman soldiers actually divided his garment. And many stories are obvious inventions based on elementary misunderstanding of the Hebrew text, such as the riding on multiple donkeys into Jerusalem and the “virgin” in Isaiah 7:14, which is an exceedingly egregious case of cherry picking and ripping text out of context.
There is evidence in the Resurrection being true…
Would all the disciples die for a lie?
The Roman soldiers were very practiced at crucifixion.
Many saw Him and illusions are not shared by many people.
The extra-Biblical writings tell the story of the Gospels
in the main details.
Many have tried to disprove the Resurrection and have not
been able to. see “More Evidence that Demands a Verdict”
by Josh McDowell – also see “Never Thirsty.org – Historical
Quotes about Jesus” for what can be seen by extra-Biblical
sources about Jesus.
As explained in my previous post, you are simply assuming the Bible is true to prove the Bible is true. There is no evidence of any kind that there were any apostles going about Jerusalem preaching Christ crucified shortly after the purported event. Those stories were made up many decades later. Paul, writing in the 50’s and 60’s, shows no knowledge of most of the biographical events reported in the Gospels. Joseph Smith shows how a conman could make up a religion out of whole cloth and now there are millions of deluded Mormons. If he could do that in an age of photographs, newspapers, and fact checkers, why would anyone believe what the followers of Jesus wrote decades after the supposed events? The New Testament is a collection of religious tracts written for the express purpose of convincing people to believe, just like the Book of Mormon and other writings of Joseph Smith. Arguments like McDowell’s are utterly worthless in light of these facts.
There is evidence from the conscience that we are each given.
see “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis
The moral argument for God is a total failure. Morality is objective because it is based on reason. It has nothing to do with any God. Even if God existed, morality would exist independently of God. I develop my moral theory in a number of articles:
There is evidence in this – Sincerely ask the Lord Jesus to make himself real to you.
You will see unmistakable results.
Been there, done that. I was a fundamentalist Christian for 17 years who described himself as a “blood-bought Bible-believing born-again non-denominational Trinitarian Christian.” I prayed every day for many years. Contrary to your assertion, the results were the essence of error, since they were based fundamentally on cognitive errors such as cherry picking, confirmation bias, and believing in things for which there were no evidence.