Debunking Myself: What A Long Strange Trip It’s Been

Sometimes the light’s all shinin’ on me
Other times I can barely see
Lately it occurs to me
What a long, strange trip it’s been

Truckin’, by the Grateful Dead

For many years I felt “the light was all shining on me” through the patterns I saw in the Bible. They seemed so obvious and incontrovertible I could not help but describe them as “blazing like the noontime sun in a cloudless sky.” I had no shadow of doubt. I believed the Bible Wheel was literally “perfect” and could withstand any criticism. It was to me the “Divine Seal and Capstone of Holy Scripture” designed by God himself and that’s what I boldly declared on the banner of the original version of this site:

www.BibleWheel.com

That banner stood over about a thousand pages of “evidence” I had laboriously collected over a period of about fifteen years. It was all I could think about. It was all I talked about. It was my calling from God. I was a true believer. I thought the Bible Wheel fulfilled two passages from Zechariah which I called the Capstone Prophecies. Here are my opening words from that article:

Divine Revelation is True Light. When the Spirit of God illuminates His Word, we know His Truth with the same certainty a blind man would have if he received sight. Everything suddenly comes into focus with perfect clarity. We can walk without stumbling in the Daylight of God’s Word. All the pieces effortlessly fit together with supernatural grace when the vision of the Whole is received. Ten thousand witnesses lift their voices in unison to confirm God’s Word. There is no perplexing doubt, no confusion. Scripture super-abundantly conforms to its own reiterative command that “every word” must be established “in the mouth of two or three witnesses” (Deut 19:15, Mat 18:16, 2 Cor 13:1). There is nothing but light, Light, LIGHT that drives out any shadow of darkness. The Gates of Heaven are thrust open; the Divine Perfection of the Holy Word shines like the noontime sun in a cloudless sky for all to see. This is the overwhelming power of God’s prophetic Capstone. Enigmatic clouds that have shrouded the self-reflective prophecies of God’s Word given within the Word itself, such as Ezekiel’s Wheels and Zechariah’s Stone, simply evaporate in the light of its blazing glory.

The Hypnotic Bible Wheel

The Bible Wheel, the Object of my Fascination

Those words accurately represented what I believed when I wrote them. At the time, I thought they were based on objective evidence. Now I see them as produced by a mind that had utterly hypnotized itself with an amazing “Alphabetic Wheel” of “God’s Word” – a kind of “decoder ring” on supernatural steroids, a coded set of circles within circles encompassing the entire Bible from Aleph to Tav, from beginning to end, in imitation of its own description of the Creator as the Alpha and Omega. It is hard to imagine a more mesmerizing object. It transfixed my mind for over a decade.

Though I didn’t realize it at the time, I expressed the essence of my self-induced hypnotic fixation when I said “Everything suddenly comes into focus with perfect clarity. All the pieces effortlessly fit together with supernatural grace when the vision of the Whole is received.” That is how it felt to me. That is the subjective experience of a “true believer.” There is no room for doubt when all available attention is focused on The Pattern (and the carefully selected set of facts that confirm it).

My Vision Quest, Rainbow Gatherings, Grateful Dead, and LSD

steel_wheel_rainbowSo how did a promising graduate student working on a Ph.D. in quantum physics morph into a Christian mystic fixated on numerology and the Bible Wheel? It began in 1987 when I got a divorce, quit college, and embarked on a three thousand mile bicycle trip from Seattle to Los Angeles and back which I thought of as a “vision quest.” I was burned out from six years of hard science and felt a deep need to find the “meaning of it all.” My mystical inclinations caught fire after spending a week with thousands of “New Age hippies” at the 1988 Rainbow Gathering in the Davy Crockett National Forest. It was an amazing experience. Imagine 5000 semi-clad hippies dancing and singing in the woods. Everyone called each other brother and sister. We all shared food, laughter, and friendship. The love was palpable. Everyone was into some variety of spirituality; most of it would be classed as “New Age” or “Eastern” though Christ was held in very high esteem by many. It was an exceedingly eclectic “hippie religion” if you will. Symbols from all religions were freely adopted. When the gathering ended, I began hitchhiking back to Seattle and passed through Santa Cruz which was teeming with Rainbow folk who had come for the Grateful Dead show. I met a man who called himself Pan. He had a staff with Mickey Mouse on a crucifix, smiling and waving. He gave me a tab of LSD and a copy of his “Theory of Everything” which he titled “A Damned Good Guess.” I met a woman who had flown in from Connecticut for the show. She was into the Tarot and we became fast friends. She had a vial of liquid LSD so we split my tab and her liquid and sat on a park bench by a cliff above the ocean and below a perfect blue sky. The heavens opened and we shared visions of God (to borrow a metaphor from Ezekiel 1:1). That’s why LSD is called an “entheogen” – it often evokes an intense experience of the divine. The vision spanned the universe and all the world’s religions and I saw they were one. This became a new goal for me, to find and express the unity underlying all the world’s religions and reality. I had become a mystic.

I found every variety of esoterica and mysticism very intriguing, especially things like synchronicity (meaningful coincidence), the I Ching, Astrology, Dream Analysis, Jungian Psychology, Tarot, and the Kabbalah (which introduced me to Hebrew numerology). I fell into a habit of magical thinking which the wiki defines as “the attribution of causal relationships between actions and events which cannot be justified by reason and observation. It is a type of causal reasoning or causal fallacy that looks for meaningful relationships of grouped phenomena (coincidence) between acts and events.” This became my primary way of interpreting my experiences. I used “associative thinking” in my analysis of dreams and synchronicities. Basically, I came to believe that “meaningful coincidence” was itself a kind of evidence of mental. spiritual, or supernatural causation that revealed the hidden unity underlying the reality. This opened me up to a series of synchronicities linked with “prophetic dreams” that ultimate led to the information presented on this site. I tell the story of that long, strange trip in my article Why I became a Christian.

Descent into the Matrix

During the six years from 1981-87 I had my feet planted firmly in physical reality as I diligently studied physics and mathematics, earning a Bachelor’s degree in each, and made significant progress towards a Ph.D. in quantum physics. My daily activity involved complex symbolic expressions like this solution to Schrodinger’s equation for the hydrogen atom:

This trained my mind to recognize and appreciate complex symbolic patterns. After quitting school and embarking on my vision quest, the skill remained but was filled with a different content and redirected towards mental and spiritual aspects of reality. I began to see and appreciate mathematical relations in symbolic information derived from all the world religions and mystical traditions. I was convinced there was an underlying unity to reality that could be discerned by comparing all the philosophies and religions of the world. In analogy with the quest of theoretical physics for the Theory of Everything, I believed the ultimate unity of reality could be expressed in the language of symbols and mathematics.

kabbalistic_tree_of_lifeI was particularly impressed by the Kabbalistic Tree of Life because it provided a framework, or matrix, upon which to organize elements derived from highly diverse esoteric studies. The tree consists of 10 sephiroth (numerical categories) corresponding to the numbers from 1 (Kether/Crown) to 10 (Malkuth/Kingdom) and twenty-two paths between the sephiroth corresponding to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. It correlates the 22 Major Arcana of the Tarot with the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet, the 12 signs of the Zodiac, the 7 traditional astrological planets, the 7 colors of the rainbow, the patterns of sacred geometry, gematria (numerology), and pretty much everything under the sun. This fit perfectly with my intent as an “analytic mystic” to correlate all esoteric knowledge upon one diagram and so reveal the underlying unity of reality. It quickly captured my attention and became the fundamental matrix upon which I would base my analysis of dreams, synchronicities, and esoteric knowledge.

The 10 sephiroth and 22 Hebrew letters are called the “32 paths of wisdom” in the Sepher Yetzirah (Book of Formation) which is the oldest description of the Tree of Life (~ 600 C.E.). The diagram is based on Aleister Crowley’s book 777 which describes itself as “a complete dictionary of correspondences of all magical elements” designed to “systematise alike the data of mysticism and the results of comparative religion.” It contains table after table listing the correspondence of “everything under the sun” with the 32 paths of wisdom. This was a primary text I was using in the fall of 1990 when I had a very short enigmatic dream that launched me “out into the deep” of esoteric studies. On the morning of November 24, 1990, I found myself floating in a blank space half aware that I was dreaming when a woman with black hair in a red sweater suddenly appeared and said:

Are you looking for Dumbo? 12 x 44

That’s it. I awoke, wrote down the dream, and consulted Crowley’s 777 to find insight as to what the numbers might mean. My first discovery was that 44 was the value of the Hebrew word דם (DM, dawm) meaning blood. I immediately noticed that this correlated with the first two the consonants in DuMbo. This gave me the feeling that I had “received information” in the dream, since I had only begun to study Hebrew gematria a few weeks earlier and did not know that word or it’s numerical value. I then looked up the product 12 x 44 = 528 and found that it was the sum of all the natural numbers from 1 to 32. Mathematicians call such numbers “triangular” because they count the number of dots in a triangular array. Kabbalists call them “Mystic Numbers” because the are supposed to “sum up” the mystical meaning of that number. I was stunned to find my dream number was the Mystic Number of the 32nd Path on the Tree of Life that leads from Malkuth (the earthly realm) to Yesod, the foundation of spiritual consciousness. Furthermore, the 32nd Path corresponds to the Universe Card of the Major Arcana in the Tarot and the final letter of the Hebrew alphabet Tav. Thus, I interpreted this information from my dream to be something like the “Mystic Number of the Universe” or more simply, the “Key to the Universe” which is what I wrote in my journal though I had no understanding of what that really meant as yet. My studies expanded to include Greek gematria, by which I discovered many “meaningful coincidences” that helped convinced me of the truth of Christianity as explained in my article Looking for Dumbo.

231Gates

The 231 Gates

The Dumbo dream launched me “into the deep” of mystical numerology. I just “knew” it contained something profound. Prior to the dream, my journal contains only a few tangential references to numerology. Less than two months later, there is hardly a page that fails to mention it. The numbers had become numinous. The Hebrew letters sprang to life as living symbols.  They were a universal matrix that encompassed all things from Aleph to Tav. The Sepher Yetzirah calls them the “twenty-two foundation letters” by which God “depicted all that was formed and all that would be formed.” It says that God “placed them in a circle like wall with 231 gates,” the number 231 indicating the number of possible connections between pairs of letters as shown in the diagram. This is what led to the Bible Wheel. I was using the “alphabetic circle” of Hebrew letters as a way of organizing their symbolic meanings, and one day it simply occurred to me that the 66 books of the Bible could be displayed on the Wheel. The Bible Wheel was born on May 12, 1995.

As time went on, I became more and more convinced that the Bible was designed by God in accordance with the 22 Hebrew letters. I now had three “threads” or lines of evidence that I felt mutually reinforced this claim. Here is how I presented them on the home page of my original site:

threefold-cord

These three threads have one thing in common: each is cast into a geometric mathematical form. This creates an illusion of design by imposing a matrix upon the data. Does the data actually fit the matrix? For years I believed it did, but now realize my evidence was biased because I filtered huge amounts of data and selected only that which fit the pattern I was looking for. The patterns presented are real, but their significance is dubious because they were cherry picked from massive sets of data that do not generally fit the patterns. This is how my mind became ensnared in the magical mystical matrix of weird beliefs. The same explanation applies to most of the weird beliefs people hold.

Why People Believe Weird Things

Michael Shermer provides much insight into the psychology of belief in the final chapter of his book Why People Believe Weird Things which focuses on why smart people believe weird things (pg. 283):

For those of us in the business of debunking bunk and explaining the unexplained, this is what I call the Hard Question: Why do smart people believe weird things? My Easy Answer will seem somewhat paradoxical at first: Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons.

That is to say, most of us most of the time come to our beliefs for a variety of reasons having little to do with empirical evidence and logical reasoning (that, presumably, smart people are better at employing). Rather,such variables as genetic predispositions, parental predilections, sibling influences, peer pressures, educational experiences, and life impressions all shape the personality preferences and emotional inclinations that, in conjunction with numerous social and cultural influences, lead us to make certain belief choices. Rarely do any of us sit down before a table of facts, weigh them pro and con, and choose the most logical and rational belief,regardless of what we previously believed. Instead, the facts of the world come to us through the colored filters of the theories, hypotheses, hunches, biases, and prejudices we have accumulated through our lifetime. We then sort through the body of data and select those most confirming what we already believe, and ignore or rationalize away those that are disconfirming. All of us do this, of course, but smart people are better at it through both talent and training. Some beliefs really are more logical, rational, and supported by the evidence than others, of course, but it is not my purpose here to judge the validity of beliefs; rather, I am interested in the question of how we came to them in the first place, and how we hold on to them in the face of either no evidence or contradictory evidence.

This is what happened to me. I arrived at my weird beliefs for decidedly “non-smart reasons” and created a powerful illusion of design by casting them into the format of mathematics and physics. Error entered because I failed to apply the scientific method. I did not form a testable hypothesis that would actually account for all the data. On the contrary, I made sweeping claims of a grand unifying pattern but most of the evidence was based on cherry picked coincidences. I accepted as “evidence” every “hit” that matched the pattern and ignored all the misses. This error is known as confirmation bias. Shermer lists it as one one of the primary answers to his “Hard Question” (pg. 299):

Confirmation Bias. At the core of the Easy Answer to the Hard Question is the confirmation bias, or the tendency to seek or interpret evidence favorable to already existing beliefs, and to ignore or reinterpret evidence unfavorable to already existing beliefs. Psychologist Raymond Nickerson (1998), in a comprehensive review of the literature on this bias, concluded: “If one were to attempt to identify a single problematic aspect of human reasoning that deserves attention above all others, the confirmation bias would have to be among the candidates for consideration. … it appears to be sufficiently strong and pervasive that one is led to wonder whether the bias, by itself, might account for a significant fraction of the disputes, altercations,and misunderstandings that occur among individuals, groups, and nations.”

It is very difficult for people to see, let alone debunk, their own biases. I doubt I ever would have had sufficient clarity and motivation to debunk my work if I had not concluded, for reasons independent of the Bible Wheel, that the Bible itself was not true. As long as I was a Bible believer, and even long after, I simply could not see the errors of my thinking. The power of bias and rationalization is too great.

Waking Up

On June 5, 2007 I started the Bible Wheel Forum as a place to discuss and promote my “discoveries.” I was soon disappointed because few people were interested in the object of my fascination. They wanted to discuss the object of their fascination. And so, like the story of The Three Christs of Ypsilanti in which psychiatrist Milton Rokeach brought together three men who each claimed to be Jesus Christ and confronted them with one another’s conflicting claims, I was brought face to face with many who thought they had discovered divine patterns in the Bible. Or the date of the Rapture. Or numerology that proves Obama is the Antichrist. Or conspiracy theories about the Illuminati ruling the world. Or secret codes in Shakespeare’s work based on the arrangement of letters on the vertices of the 3-4-5 Pythagorean triangle. Etc., etc., etc. Their number was legion and their beliefs usually struck me as quite absurd and easy to debunk, which I did with relish. I made a habit of pointing out their errors in logic and fact. I was strongly motivated because I knew they gave my work, which had a “superficial similarity” to theirs, a bad name. I wanted to prove my studies were not flawed like theirs. I did this for years, not realizing that I was “cutting my teeth” in preparation for my most challenging work – debunking myself.

Despite the endless hours refuting the fringe claims of others, my belief in the Bible Wheel remained intact. Indeed, my conviction was strengthened by my ability to debunk the claims of others. I thought it proved that my work was different and my thinking better than theirs. I had no idea that this was a textbook example of attribution bias, which is the inclination to give rational explanations for one’s own behavior while not being so generous to others. Shermer lists this as the the first of the two reasons why smart people believe weird things (the second being confirmation bias).

So what woke me up? The process began in earnest when my wife Rose and I began our “fireside chats” in December 2009 with the question “Why should we care what other people think?” We allowed ourselves the freedom to question everything we believed and soon discovered that we didn’t really believe most of what is taught in the Bible. Years of refuting the absurd rationalizations used by other believers helped us avoid that error. Rose had been a Christian for 28 years, and I for 15. We made the transition out together though our individual paths were somewhat different. For me, there were two primary insights that “broke the spell” of Christianity. First, I came to see that the Bible is filled with errors, absurdities, contradictions, primitive mythology, and moral abominations attributed to God, and that the attempts by Christian apologists to explain them away and/or cover them up and makes them look like fools of the first order. Second, I came to see that God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers, and that this directly contradicts the plain teaching of Scripture and the whole point of the religion which posits a parent-like Father God who watches over us, protects us from harm, and answers our prayers. For Rose, her primary insight was that the Bible is saturated with a strong male bias which has caused immeasurable and unjust suffering of women at the hands of men throughout the ages and therefore  invalidates any possibility that the Bible could be the “Word of God.” She shares her insight on her blog in a series of articles called Gender Bias in the Bible. Here’s how I explained my take on it on August 8, 2011 in my post Why I Quit Christianity:

How then is it possible that I now reject the faith I once believed with such passion? What changed? The answer is really pretty simple. I was “blinded” by the light I saw in the Bible. Anyone who has entered in to the Bible with believing eyes knows how it can capture the soul. It feels alive. It touches chords that resonate down into the deepest parts of ourselves. It seems to be filled with light everywhere you look: the Gospel message shines with its numinous symbolic elements like the Alpha Omega, the Cross, the Dove, the Death and Resurrection of Christ, and on and on it goes. Who wouldn’t want to believe such a story? Indeed, the believer wonders how anyone could resist such an amazing Gospel message. And beyond all that, I had the overwhelming witness of the Bible Wheel which seemed to confirm everything about the Bible as the very Word of God. All these things blinded me to the “dark side” of the Bible. I simply “overlooked” all the problematic passages, errors, contradictions, and moral abominations that didn’t fit with the amazingly glorious, and blinding, vision of the Bible as “God’s Word.”

But one mystery remained – the Bible Wheel. I was still convinced it was valid, as explained at the end of that article:

In my next post, I will begin reviewing the Bible Wheel book to see what it looks like without my “blinders” on. I am very curious because as far as I know, all the evidence for the apparently “supernatural” design in the Bible remains true. This is the great mystery that now confronts me. The evidence for the Bible Wheel remains despite the obvious flaws in the Bible. So what does it mean? I don’t know yet, and before trying to come to a conclusion, I feel a need to critique my own book with the same honesty I have critiqued the Bible upon which it is based.

A few days later, I posted my first attempt at critiquing the Bible Wheel book (here). The post is embarrassing for what it reveals about my state of mind at the time. I critiqued my style while ignoring the actual claims that needed to be tested and concluded by saying “I can find no errors of fact in Chapter 1, so it passes my critical review.” I was utterly blind to the outlandish and unsupported assertions I made in that chapter. I was still under the delusion that my cherry picked “evidence” qualified as valid justification. I didn’t even think to test it. Here is what I wrote (the factual claims that I let stand without challenge are highlighted red):

Though I have not found any errors of fact in the first chapter, there is much that I would change in the style and in the opinions I expressed. For example, after explaining how the order and meaning of the twenty-two Hebrew letters was established in the Alphabetic Verses such as Psalm 119 – which many Biblical scholars saw as a “little Bible” and as the “Christian’s golden ABC of the praise, love, power, and use of the word of God” –  I cast away all restraint and wrote this:

These comments show that the glory of Psalm 119, like that of the Bible itself, surpasses the limits of human language. Even when we speak only with superlatives, our praise falls short of the “inexhaustible fullness” of this supreme Psalm of God’s Word.

Yet there is more – so much more! – in this “little Bible” than anyone ever anticipated. It is here in Psalm 119, and kindred Alphabetic Verses, that God eternally established the order and meaning of the twenty-two Hebrew letters and so laid an unshakable foundation for the large-scale structure of His Word within its own text. The Bible is self-reflective; it contains an image of itself within itself in the Alphabetic Verses. Moreover, God embedded within this foundation an abundant storehouse of Alphabetic KeyWords that prophetically anticipate the thematic pattern of the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation. This is the Work of God. This is the revelation of the Bible Wheel.

So what would I write now that I am not a Christian? I don’t really know. The whole book emerged from a conflagration of a mystical enthusiasm fired by demonstrable facts that seemed to be lit with the light of heaven. It really isn’t possible to rewrite it without starting from scratch. All I can do in this review is to focus on the actual factual statements and let the enthusiasm remain as a witness to what this kind of knowledge can do to a soul. So here are the facts expressed in those paragraphs:

Many Biblical commentators saw a supreme value in Psalm 119, and said that the Hebrew alphabet was a “divine alphabet” filled with wisdom. The order and meaning of the Hebrew alphabet is established in the Alphabetic Verses like Psalm 119. Therefore, the pattern of the alphabet which defines the Bible Wheel is established within the text of Scripture itself. The meanings of the letters are derived from the Alphabetic KeyWords used in the Alphabetic Verses, and these anticipate the thematic pattern of the whole Bible.

Conclusion:
I can find no errors of fact in Chapter 1, so it passes my critical review.

Demonstrable facts? Oh my. What was I thinking? I didn’t address those claims at all. As I explain below, the Bible Wheel collapsed like a house of cards in one evening when I finally put those claims to the test. The amazing thing is that this didn’t happen for yet another three years. Here is how I presented the enduring “mystery” on my sidebar during those years:

I created this site on February 11, 2001 to share the Bible Wheel which I discovered in 1995. For over a decade I was completely convinced it was proof of the divine inspiration of Scripture. In late 2009 my wife and I began questioning our beliefs and have since left the faith. Oddly enough, the evidence for the Bible Wheel withstood our skepticism though the Bible itself did not. What it means remains a mystery.

This shows the power of cognitive bias, and how very difficult it is to free yourself from habitual errors in your own thinking even when you sincerely try. Fortunately, I had no problem seeing bias in other believers and continued my hobby of debunking their arguments for Christianity, conspiracy theories, and other weird beliefs. It was only a matter of time before I would apply the same standards to myself, which is the essence of the powerful Outsider Test for Faith.

The turning point came when I began to familiarize myself with the psychology of belief and use it in my refutation of Christian arguments. Rationalization is the handmaiden of delusion. It is how people maintain their false beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. This was the topic of my article The Art of Rationalization: A Case Study of Christian Apologist Rich Deem posted on October 6, 2012, about a year after I quit Christianity. Here is the opening paragraph:

Rationalization, commonly known as “making excuses” or “self-justification” is a psychological defense mechanism triggered by conflicting desires, feelings, or beliefs which evoke a painful state of mind called cognitive dissonance. No one is exempt. If there is one guarantee in life, it is that our amazing and complex world will repeatedly contradict our personal desires, limited knowledge, and cherished beliefs. But this is not a bad thing. On the contrary, the pain of cognitive dissonance is the pain of birth, of growing, of moving into the light of reality. It is the pain that shows the way to break free from the prison of our ignorance and selfishness.

I went on to explain how cognitive dissonance “is to the mind as pain is to the body. Without it, our minds would quickly fall into delusion and disintegrate like the bodies of children born with congenital insensitivity to pain who repeatedly injure themselves.” After a detailed analysis of the errors in Rich Deem’s arguments, I ended with these words:

This topic is of keen interest to me because I was a fundamentalist Christian for about 15 years. I explain the cognitive dissonance that drove me out of the faith in my article called Why I Quit Christianity. I have left a very long trail spanning more than a decade on this site and many posts in other forums defending my work on the Bible Wheel. My next project is to apply the insights I gained by writing this article to myself. Most arguments raised against my work claimed that the Bible Wheel had no objective validity and that all my evidence was nothing but the product of cognitive biases like cherry picking, confirmation bias, pareidolia, and so forth. So now I will review those arguments and put my old responses to them through the same fire I have used to test Rich Deem’s arguments. It should prove enlightening.

This article is the fulfillment of that project. That fact that it has taken nearly two years since that post shows, yet again, how very difficult it is to free yourself from your own biases and delusions.

The Bible Wheel Debunked

On August 8, 2014, I began a thread on my forum called The Bible Wheel, Numerology, and Cognitive Bias. It was in response to a member who appeals to my work as proof that God designed the Bible. He thought I was using “cognitive bias” as a mere excuse to reject the Bible Wheel now that I reject Christianity. To prove his point, he dug up an old post from another forum that I wrote when I was a believer in which I dismissed the charge of “cherry picking” with these words:

Now one of the primary objections people raise is the charge of “cherry picking.” They suggest that the Bible is such a big book that anyone can make connections with anything, and therefore nothing like the Bible Wheel could have any real meaning. But this is not true. God established the connections for us in the Alphabetic Verses, and the specific content of the books is an objective fact.

I responded by presenting a few of my favorite cherry picked examples and declaring that they represented a general pattern found throughout the Bible:

Now the real miracle of the Bible Wheel shines with its greatest clarity when we examine the specific content on each Spoke in light of the Alphabetic KeyWords that God established in the Alphabetic Verses of Scripture. The Alphabetic Verses are the passages that God designed on the pattern of the Hebrew alphabet. The most notable example is Psalm 119 which has 8 stanzas for each letter giving a total of 176 (= 8 x 22) verses. And what is the theme of this, the largest chapter in God’s Word? It is none other than the WORD itself! And how are words written? With the Alphabet, of course. We find therefore that God designed the PSALM of HIS WORD on the pattern of the Hebrew Alphabet, and this establishes the pattern for the large-scale pattern of His entire Word in the form of the Wheel. But there is more! There are many profound correlations between the Alphabet KeyWords and the specific content of the books on the corresponding Spokes.

This was my primary claim. I asserted that the entire Bible fit the pattern of the Wheel. Is it true? Nope. Not by a long shot. Most of the text of the Bible has no obvious connection with the spoke on which it is found. How then did I fall into this delusion? When I first discovered the Bible Wheel, its mere existence struck me as obviously “significant” because I had already come to believe that the circle of the Hebrew alphabet was the matrix by which God created all things. And this naturally fit with the idea that God created all things by his “word” which was Jesus Christ who is described as the Alpha Omega, using the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet which correspond to Aleph and Tav. And so the Bible Wheel encompassed God’s Word from beginning to end and “sealed” with the Aleph and Tav. It was an extremely compelling vision that was just too good not to be true! From the very beginning, my study of the Bible Wheel was marred by a strong “confirmation bias.”

On August 29, 2014 I finally put my claims to the test. I reviewed the best evidence I had supporting them in a series of five posts (here, here, here, here, and here). My conclusion? Every claim I tested failed. They all fell like a house of cards. The self-induced hypnotic spell is finally broken.

I have since debunked all the major claims involving all three threads of my presentation. I am now convinced that all the “evidence” presented on my original site and in my 412 page Bible Wheel book is a massive monument to cognitive bias. The “mystery” has been resolved. I know of nothing in the Bible that requires any “supernatural agent” to explain.

The Grateful Dead has provided an apt closing song:

This entry was posted in Bible Wheel, Christianity, Losing My Religion. Bookmark the permalink. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.

269 Comments

  1. Posted October 4, 2014 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

    Hi Richard:
    “If you say Love exists – you lie.
    If you say Love does NOT exist – you lie!

    Now… Do you believe in Love?”

    Namaste,

    Mystykal

  2. Posted October 5, 2014 at 5:36 am | Permalink

    Hey there Mystykal,

    I don’t understand your point. Why should I believe it is a lie to say that love exists?

    Is this intended as a koan? Are you asking me if I believe in things that neither exist nor not exist? If so, you must be asking if I believe in things for which the category “exist” does not apply. Are you thinking of abstract objects that don’t “exist” in the same way as physical things?

    Richard

  3. Posted October 5, 2014 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    Hi Richard:
    Yes you could say it is a koan…
    Put another way….

    Nothing Exists

    Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.

    Desiring to show his attainment, he said: “The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no relaization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received.”

    Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.

    “If nothing exists,” inquired Dokuon, “where did this anger come from?”

    Namaste,

    Mystykal

  4. Posted October 5, 2014 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    “If nothing exists,” inquired Dokuon, “where did this anger come from?”

    I still have no idea what you are trying to say. I have not said nothing exists. I’m not angry. I really don’t know what you are trying to say.

  5. Longtime Reader
    Posted October 6, 2014 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Richard,
    I am very glad you have kept this site, and the old bible wheel site running. I found out about your site when my pastor started a mini series on the bible wheel about three years ago. For my entire life i was an inspired believer, much like yourself during the bible wheel phase, and your study only enhanced my faith to new levels. However, for various reasons, i began to doubt my faith about a year ago. My main reason for holding on to my faith was actually the disturbing idea that the Bible Wheel was proof of the truth of churchianity. However, seeing you recently renounce your belief, you have helped debunk what i was pretty certain was false. Anyways, i just wanted to say you have helped free me from the belief that the world is black and white, and now i am opening my eyes to the mysteries of the world once more, and this time, through a purely rational lens. Thank you for being brave enough to admit you were wrong, and for all the time and effort you have put into this all.

    Best wishes,
    (name in my email)

  6. Posted October 6, 2014 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Hey there Longtime Reader,

    Thanks for the good word. It’s very gratifying to know that I am able to undo some of the damage I’ve done. That’s one of the main reasons I keep the site up. I want to debunk every error I ever published. Not only is it my duty as the author of bunk, but it also serves as an excellent example of what it takes to free oneself from delusion. It took more than three years after debunking the Bible before I could debunk the Bible Wheel. I think that’s because the Bible Wheel was my own creation. It’s hard to see your own biases.

    Don’t be a stranger!

  7. Intrigulated
    Posted October 9, 2014 at 2:49 am | Permalink

    What an interesting time to stumble upon this writing as well as your ‘Wheel’. I have not had the chance to read this writing in full as of yet. I came upon your ‘Wheel’ looking up any signifigance to the number 402, which came to me in a dream last night. On your ‘Wheel’ page I found the link to ‘Debunking Myself.’ I needed to see how one could do such work and then change directions. It seems to me we are sort of kindred spirits, traveling vaguely similar paths. Perhaps in opposite directions though. My spiritual path began in 1997. I traveled through the Tree of Life as well, and many other religious paths and tools. I had denounced Christianity by 2000. What is interesting to me is that the more I travel my path, the more I seem to actually come back to the Bible. I want to go back and read this page in full as I have time. And, I think I want to look at your ‘Wheel’ in more depth as well. I also think I would enjoy an actual dialogue with you. (In case you’re wondering my ‘name’ only means I am intrigued. I like to play with and make up words and this seemed as good an opportunity as any.) Peace and Many Blessings, Brother!

  8. Posted October 9, 2014 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Hey there Intrigulated,

    Yes, it does look like we may be kindred spirits. I too enjoy creating neologisms. 😉

    And our paths are curiously similar. I began by searching for the underlying unity in all religions and spent a lot of time studying the Tree of Life and related topics. But the more I studied them, the more they led to the Bible which is, of course, the fountainhead of the western esoteric tradition (Kabbalah, etc.). And as my faith in Christ grew, I sensed a strong antipathy towards mysticism by most of my fellow Christians so I hid that aspect of my studies until it withered and died. The Bible Wheel came to play pretty much the same role as a “universal mystical categorical system.”

    If you would like to have a more indepth discussion, you could register on my forum which has better software for that purpose.

    http://www.biblewheel.com/forum

    Thanks for taking time to share you insights.

    Richard

  9. Posted October 10, 2014 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    Hi Richard, im very suprised at a man climbing to the top of a high mountain, and then decide after so much effort to get there, just to drop down and play dead. making a mistake is never the end, faltering is not failing, its just an obstacle to overcome. We all learn by trial and error. its like ploughing a whole field and then chooseing not to sow.

  10. Posted October 10, 2014 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Hi John,

    One reason the climb was so exhausting is because I had to transport the dirt to build the mountain myself. It’s not like God just dropped the Bible Wheel from the sky and gave me a bunch of evidence. I spent years looking for “confirmation” of my preconceived belief. I now see that evidence was flawed by many cognitive biases like cherry picking and confirmation bias. Most of it fell like a house of cards the moment I tested it, as I explained in my post.

    So really, there is no high mountain. It’s just a pile of dirt.

    If you think I have erred in my judgement, please take a minute or two to explain why.

    Thanks,

    Richard

  11. MichaelFree
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 12:11 am | Permalink

    Richard,

    Reexamination is truth-doing at its finest. Congratulations.

    I too have been on a journey.

    Sometimes I look up numbers on Biblewheel to see their Biblewheel meaning.

    I was born into a semi-religious and atheist/agnostic upbringing. I was always agnostic and no one ever compelled me to believe in any religion.

    About two years ago I read only the Gospels and I found what I like to call the righteous Jesus Christ. I say this because there are more than one believable interpretations of Jesus Christ in the Gospels.

    The Righteous Jesus Christ repudiates the iniquity attributed to God in the Old Testament. Everything from baby killing to slavery to the burning of cities.

    Personally I came to the Gospels in a search for the righteous path, the way of the guru. I’ve read other truth books also like “The Prophet” by Khalil Gibran and others. I was looking for an instruction manual for being righteous in life. So this is what I took away from it:

    At our choice point in our thoughts, our words, and in our deeds we make a fundamental root decision that determines the spirit that we are operating in, either good or bad. For this reason, you Richard, see hell as the bad spirit or the killing of babies as the bad spirit. No amount of attributing bad spirit to God can convince you that evil can be justified for the Spirit itself is the revealer of the True Way that is in you.

    Congratulations on beating the book.

    Thoughts : See the dignity in ALL people and in all the Universe (imagine what foul words and foul deeds come from not seeing the dignity in all people and in all the Universe)

    Words : Speak the truth and do not lie

    Deeds : Respect other people’s right to agreement with respect to what happens to them or their property and help people in need when and where you can

    The Righteous Jesus did the good thoughts, good words, and good deeds always. He was killed because his killers broke all three. They did the opposite to him. They killed him because of what he said about the Sabbath, washing hands, circumcision, or his being the Son of God etc. He was killed because of his beliefs. Not unlike so-called Christians who follow unrighteous Jesus, who say that good thought, good word, and good deed doing people of other religions and atheists go to hell, both because of their beliefs alone.

    The mostly good people of other religions and atheists ask “for what good deed do you send me to hell?”, and they answer “for a good deed we send thee not to hell but because when you were praising love and truth you called it Allah or Buddha or Ahura Mazda or the atheist called it reason (etc), for this you go to hell”.

    And the Righteous in Heaven stand with men and women, people who are religious and those who are atheists, people of all ethnicities and nationalities, heterosexuals and homosexuals, for we are all equal and free and no book will ever take the Spirit of Righteousness away from us, for it is our birthright. All these groups can do good thoughts, good words, and good deeds as well as anyone else.

    Read the good deeds description above. This one rule they broke against Jesus and killed an innocent man and Son of the Creator. Son of the Creator because he did the righteousness always. Around each of our persons and around each of our property is a line. This line is sacred and always has been. It’s the Kingdom of Truth. It’s around everyone and the rules are the same so it’s the same Kingdom. We are all Sons and Daughters of Creation. Supernatural deity or not, Life and the Universe are a miracle and a gift and something we should honor. We are creators ourselves. One cannot do bad in order to achieve good. One must do good to achieve good. To be creative. Truth always.

    We say and do things in a spirit and it means something.

  12. MichaelFree
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 12:28 am | Permalink

    Richard,

    Meanwhile ISIS is ransacking the Middle East doing Numbers 31 things and attributing it to God.

    Rape – check
    Murder – check
    Slavery – check
    Robbery – check
    Assault – check
    Theft – check

    All trespasses against the sacred line around person and property and they call it holy.

  13. Reine Gnade
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    Greetings Michael!

    Only sinful man attributes to the sinless God of the holy Bible iniquity or sin. The sinless Son of God does the very opposite of what you teach. He teaches that God did those very things you claim He didn’t.

    You claim that sinners have a birthright to live in the presence of God. They have no such thing.

    A sinner is separated from God. You claim that their “good” deeds or works are accepted by God as a means of salvation. No they are not.

    Man is a sinner who needs to put his wholehearted trust in God’s Beloved Son. He is the Savior. Sinful man must believe in Him!

  14. Reine Gnade
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    Greetings Michael!
    The Son of God isn’t the Son of the Creator, but the Creator. He has been the Creator from eternity past.

  15. Reine Gnade
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    Man will be cast out of God’s presence after he dies because he stubbornly refused to welcome Him as His teacher. If man will not accept the true God as His teacher, he will certainly not be blessed to
    accept the true God as His savior.

  16. Reine Gnade
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    God is Spirit and He is righteous. Man can be creative, but he isn’t the Creator. He does have a spirit, but the Bible teaches that he is spiritually dead.
    Unsaved man doesn’t reverence or hallow God. He needs to be born again or made spiritually alive to bring glory to the God of the holy Bible!
    Enjoy your Bible studies!

  17. Reine Gnade
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Greetings Michael, someone with a
    depraved mind does depraved deeds. If someone
    has an impure heart impure words will come out of their mouth
    and they will also do impure deeds!
    The Bible teaches that unsaved man is living a life that fails to bring glory to God! Put your trust in Christ, for He can bless you with a
    right understanding!

  18. Posted October 12, 2014 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    Hey folks (Reine and Michael),

    I would like to invite you to register on my forum where you can start your own threads to discuss anything you like. I would like to keep the comments here on the subject of the articles I have written. Otherwise, we just have a mountain of random comments that have nothing to do with what I wrote and that defeats the purpose of my blog.

    You can register on my forum here: http://www.biblewheel.com/forum

    I will remove any future comments that do not relate to the topic of the article.

    All the best,

    Richard

  19. Posted October 12, 2014 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    About two years ago I read only the Gospels and I found what I like to call the righteous Jesus Christ. I say this because there are more than one believable interpretations of Jesus Christ in the Gospels.

    The Righteous Jesus Christ repudiates the iniquity attributed to God in the Old Testament. Everything from baby killing to slavery to the burning of cities.

    Well, that means that your “Righteous Jesus Christ” is NOT the Jesus Christ portrayed in the Bible. This is relevant to the point I was making in my article since your choice to invent your own Christ to fit what you want to believe is, in my estimation, and example of selection bias. If you reject what the Bible teaches about Christ, why believe that there was a Jesus at all? The only thing we “know” about him is from the Bible.

    Personally I came to the Gospels in a search for the righteous path, the way of the guru. I’ve read other truth books also like “The Prophet” by Khalil Gibran and others. I was looking for an instruction manual for being righteous in life. So this is what I took away from it:

    At our choice point in our thoughts, our words, and in our deeds we make a fundamental root decision that determines the spirit that we are operating in, either good or bad. For this reason, you Richard, see hell as the bad spirit or the killing of babies as the bad spirit. No amount of attributing bad spirit to God can convince you that evil can be justified for the Spirit itself is the revealer of the True Way that is in you.

    Congratulations on beating the book.

    Well, you can always find what you are looking for in any book if you choose to select only the parts of the book that confirm what you are looking for and reject the rest. This is known as the fallacy of cherry picking, which is the primary cause of most delusional beliefs.

    Thoughts : See the dignity in ALL people and in all the Universe (imagine what foul words and foul deeds come from not seeing the dignity in all people and in all the Universe)

    Words : Speak the truth and do not lie

    Deeds : Respect other people’s right to agreement with respect to what happens to them or their property and help people in need when and where you can

    Those are all good things, but you don’t need to confirm them by cherry picking bits and pieces from the Bible. They are intrinsic to any healthy person.

    The Righteous Jesus did the good thoughts, good words, and good deeds always. He was killed because his killers broke all three. They did the opposite to him. They killed him because of what he said about the Sabbath, washing hands, circumcision, or his being the Son of God etc. He was killed because of his beliefs. Not unlike so-called Christians who follow unrighteous Jesus, who say that good thought, good word, and good deed doing people of other religions and atheists go to hell, both because of their beliefs alone.

    Again, the “Righteous Jesus” is a product of your own imagination. He is not the Jesus described in the Bible who endorsed every word of the Torah, including the passages relating to genocide, sexism, slavery, and so forth.

    And the Righteous in Heaven stand with men and women, people who are religious and those who are atheists, people of all ethnicities and nationalities, heterosexuals and homosexuals, for we are all equal and free and no book will ever take the Spirit of Righteousness away from us, for it is our birthright. All these groups can do good thoughts, good words, and good deeds as well as anyone else.

    You are presenting an imaginary afterlife you have derived by cherry picking the Bible and other religious texts. If you need to cherry pick to find what you are looking for, why believe any of them? If they contain as much (or more) error than truth, why not simply reject them as a reliable source, and follow your own intuitions which are the actual standard by which you judge anyway?

    Great chatting!

    Richard

  20. MichaelFree
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    I understand you’re asking us to keep on topic. I just have this one comment as reply and then I’ll be done. Feel free to delete my comments too if that helps keep your blog clean.

    Thanks.

    I did cherry-pick the Gospels out from the Bible.

    I believe if I had read other books besides the Gospels I would have arrived at the same destination.

    I wish I had never read the Gospels actually. I find the many interpretations of parables mind boggling and not helpful.

    I “believe” Jesus did not confirm every word of the Torah and that your cognition is off if you say otherwise. The OT says its okay to kill Jesus because he “broke” the Sabbath and because he said that he was God etc (new strange God called Jesus). You’re essentially saying that Jesus confirms its okay to kill him. When he said that anyone who harms a child would be better off tying a millstone around their neck and drowning themselves what do you think he was talking about Richard? Could it of been all the baby murders in the OT? Or when he told the disciple that wanted to rain fire upon a city that wouldn’t receive them that that disciple knew not what spirit he was acting in when he proposed such an act. Or when Jesus says that no one has seen God in person but in the OT people are wrestling with God etc. The list goes on.

    I agree to disagree on the Gospels and I’m not even going to attempt to discuss with Reine here.

    And I wouldn’t call myself a Christian unless that word means a follower of righteousness. My only religious “belief” is the existence of heaven and that the power in heaven supports the way of truth here on Earth.

    And for that matter your cognition must of really been off if you thought that believing in Jesus the religion was the New Covenant. The OT says that when the New Covenant is revealed people will no longer teach their neighbor about God because his laws will be written on your heart. Clearly this hasn’t happened. Christianity is a fraud unless Jesus comes back in the flesh or his spirit and law are supernaturally revealed to the world and attributed to Jesus the person, because either the Christ is a flesh and blood being or the Christ is true righteousness itself.

  21. MichaelFree
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    Okay one more comment. Apologize for that.

    These are characters that the Gospels introduces to the reader and then asks for fear in return:

    Jesus
    God the Father
    Satan
    Demons

    Hidden within the fear-based Gospels is a righteous message that is both scientifically and empirically good and true about human beings interactions with one another.

    The specific good thoughts, good words, and good deeds I mentioned above are all very specific things that Jesus said were good and true and blessed by God. Every. Single. One. Of. Them.

    I came to the Gospels looking for the answer to the Golden Rule and found out that the Golden Rule is not the law itself but rather it’s the revealer of the law and the law revealed is universal and timeless.

  22. Posted October 12, 2014 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    I understand you’re asking us to keep on topic. I just have this one comment as reply and then I’ll be done. Feel free to delete my comments too if that helps keep your blog clean.

    Thanks.

    I did cherry-pick the Gospels out from the Bible.

    Hey there Michael,

    Your comment is very much on topic, so no worries!

    I’m glad you can see that you cherry picked the Gospels. Do you understand why that is a fallacy?

    I “believe” Jesus did not confirm every word of the Torah and that your cognition is off if you say otherwise. The OT says its okay to kill Jesus because he “broke” the Sabbath and because he said that he was God etc (new strange God called Jesus). You’re essentially saying that Jesus confirms its okay to kill him.

    If that’s what you believe, then you reject at least part of the Gospels, because they record Jesus as saying “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Does this not confirm every jot and tittle of the Torah?

    The fact that you find a contradiction means that either your understanding is flawed, or the Bible is logically incoherent.

    When he said that anyone who harms a child would be better off tying a millstone around their neck and drowning themselves what do you think he was talking about Richard? Could it of been all the baby murders in the OT?

    No, I have no reason to think that Jesus had any problem with anything taught in the OT. I think you are stretching things.

    Or when he told the disciple that wanted to rain fire upon a city that wouldn’t receive them that that disciple knew not what spirit he was acting in when he proposed such an act.

    The NT quotes Jesus as speaking of the judgment that fell upon Sodom and Gomorrah and warned others of worse things to come upon them. So your proposal makes no sense. It just shows, yet again, that the Bible is incoherent.

    And for that matter your cognition must of really been off if you thought that believing in Jesus the religion was the New Covenant. The OT says that when the New Covenant is revealed people will no longer teach their neighbor about God because his laws will be written on your heart. Clearly this hasn’t happened. Christianity is a fraud unless Jesus comes back in the flesh or his spirit and law are supernaturally revealed to the world and attributed to Jesus the person, because either the Christ is a flesh and blood being or the Christ is true righteousness itself.

    Other believers will find ways to harmonize those verses. In my estimation, that’s what proves believers don’t actually follow the Bible, but rather “interpret it” in a way to make it conform to what they want to believe.

  23. Posted October 12, 2014 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    The Golden Rule exists independently of the Gospels. It is a universal human understanding. It shows that morality is based on logic, love, and human nature, and has nothing to do with any god.

  24. MichaelFree
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    Cherry picking the Gospels out of the whole Bible is a fallacy if one is searching for the religion of the Bible, or searching for the God of the Bible, but it is not a fallacy if one wants to learn righteousness from Jesus’ mouth. Religion and righteousness (right and true thinking, saying, doing) are two different things.

    I think we’re on similar pages with a few distinct differences of opinion.

    I’d have a discussion about math and the structure of the Biblewheel with you but I only vaguely have an idea of how the Biblewheel is constructed and my math skills suck.

    Take care.

  25. MichaelFree
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    Reine,

    Forgive me for not wanting to discuss religion with you. You’re always kind. Take care.

  26. MichaelFree
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    This is how I see it (I’ve studied the Golden Rule thoroughly and I live it daily)

    The family is the source of objective morality. The mission/job function of the family is to get along together and to do the families work. This is eternal. This is peace on Earth if everyone in the world treated everone else the same way they treated their own loved ones. I’m speaking of the structure of the family not the reality of family squabbles and assorted battles.

    Some people don’t have families or their families treated them badly. I hope they find peace in treating everyone good. The family is any group of people that live or work together.

    Some people want to be treated badly by other people so the Golden Rule is not the law but rather it’s the revealer of the law because most people don’t want to be treated badly by other people but rather they want to be treated well. Well, in both word and deed. But what’s the root, the choice point, of our words and of our deeds?

    Speaking the truth = good spirit
    Lying = bad spirit

    Don’t trespass against person or property = good spirit
    Trespass against person or property = bad spirit

    Definition of trespass:

    Person = assault, robbery, rape, murder
    Property = theft or defilement/wreckage

    So yes, it is logical, the ingredients of love, human nature, and doesn’t have anything to do with any God.

    The Golden Rule is also righteous because the way you wanted to be treated is the way the law wants you to be treated. It’s a kind law in this regard. I hope if there is a deity that it would be so righteous.

    True strength is measured by a person’s willingness and agreement. The idea that draws it’s adherents through fear is weak but the idea that draws it’s adherents through willingness and agreement is strong.

  27. Gnade
    Posted October 16, 2014 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Michael, you write:
    So yes, it is logical, the ingredients of love, human nature, and doesn’t have anything to do with any God.
    This is totally wrong. Love has everything to do with Him, for He is the source of love!
    Yes. The Golden Rule is righteous and is a gift from a righteous, kind God.

    Michael you can leave out the word if!
    There is a God. The Son of God is God. He is the very person whom, in previous commentaries, you have correctly stated is righteous.

    And yes, true strength is measured by a person’s willingness and agreement with Him. The God of the Bible is love and He longs to draw sinners tenderly and gently to Christ.

  28. michael paul
    Posted October 19, 2014 at 1:28 am | Permalink

    People spend so much time examining/scrutinizing/mining the bible for evidence of God’s existence because of a basic flaw in their own belief. Ironically, they gradually lose their faith as the evidence mounts because of the deprivation of a more natural heuristic of looking for God and seeking his identity, his nature. Doubt is an essential ingredient to this heuristic, the point at which we will be rewarded for the effort in the searching. Prayer is the only way to acquire the grace which illuminates the clues—–and the directions in which to search for them—–through those assets which God gave us at our birth, whether we be mathematicians or scientists or whatever.

  29. Posted October 19, 2014 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    People spend so much time examining/scrutinizing/mining the bible for evidence of God’s existence because of a basic flaw in their own belief. Ironically, they gradually lose their faith as the evidence mounts because of the deprivation of a more natural heuristic of looking for God and seeking his identity, his nature.

    Michael,

    Could you be more explicit about the nature of the “flaw in their own belief”?

    Where did you get the idea that they lose faith “as the evidence mounts”? That’s not what happened in my case. I lost my faith because the overwhelming evidence that the Bible is not true or even coherent, and that the god it proclaims cannot be true. The only reason anyone believes in him is because of common cognitive fallacies found in all religions and weird belief systems like astrology, conspiracy theories, and so forth.

    Prayer is the only way to acquire the grace which illuminates the clues—–and the directions in which to search for them—–through those assets which God gave us at our birth, whether we be mathematicians or scientists or whatever.

    I can assure you I prayed daily for the grace that illuminates the clues. The problem is treating the Bible like a giant set of “divine clues” that you must go “searching for.” Muslims do the same thing with the Quran and just like Christians, they become convinced that their god designed their holy book full of “clues” that “confirm” its truth. That called “confirmation bias” and it leads to delusional beliefs.

  30. Gnade
    Posted October 19, 2014 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    Greetings Richard and Rose! As explorers for truth it is vital that
    we desire to trust what God teaches, for without
    trust or faith it is impossible to please Him.

    As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are God’s ways higher than man’s ways, and His thoughts than man’s thoughts” ( See Isaiah 55:9).
    Start a new adventure of trusting Him and be blessed!

  31. Posted October 19, 2014 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Hey there Gnade,

    I cannot think of anything more absurd than to “trust” the biblegod. Is there one thing that any person can actually TRUST God to do for them in this life? Nope. Nada. Zilch. People who trust God for the health of their children end up with dead children and manslaughter convictions. If God were half as trustworthy as the average dentist there would be no doubt or debate about his existence. Your belief that God is trustworthy appears to me to be fundamentally delusional. Please take no offense as none is intended. I’m just telling you what I believe to be the truth, just as you have been telling me what you believe.

    All the best,

    Richard

  32. Posted October 20, 2014 at 4:19 am | Permalink

    Dear Richard,

    Not to bore you with yet another thing that someone else finds fascinating, but your analysis of your own state of mind and your ability to reject personal schemas is quite admirable.

    To keep this short, coming from the Pythagoreans, here is a website with a lighter approach to things for the web: armageddonconspiracy.co.uk

    and this author will bring you things you will undoubtedly enjoy:

    http://www.amazon.com/Mike-Hockney/e/B004KHR7DC

    This for example:

    http://www.amazon.com/Math-Must-Replace-Science-Book-ebook/dp/B00LD39NEM/ref=la_B004KHR7DC_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1413807520&sr=1-3

    and this:

    http://www.amazon.com/Mathmos-God-Book-15-ebook/dp/B00IRNC4IS/ref=la_B004KHR7DC_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1413807520&sr=1-6

    Good luck in your studies.

    A.I.

  33. michael paul
    Posted October 27, 2014 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    hello,
    regarding “flaw in their own belief”…
    first of all, I think it is awesome and incredible that you developed one of the most beautifully intricate websites based on a belief in God.
    And then, making the work of your “hands”/mind—-your CREATION—-produce an abrogation/denial of the fruits of that labor!
    It’s almost witnessing the temporally/historically beautiful/right betrayal leading up to Christ on the cross…
    Let me be more clear than in my first note…
    I do not believe in God.
    But I do not DIS-believe in God.
    I am a “wanderer”—-a scientist (chemist)—-looking for what-is-real….not driven by a personality/character-driven bias, but driven by curiosity.
    I see SOMETHING, but I don’t know what it is I am looking at.
    Like a chemist who believes (not knows) that atoms are behind the Periodic Table of Elements, I have made a career in seeking “the face” of those atoms.
    You being a physicist might appreciate your instinct to see things through mathematics what others will never be able to see without mathematics.
    Now, abruptly halting this “going out on a limb”, I will focus on my “seeking to identify what I am looking at, but what I don’t recognize”…
    I peruse your most-excellent website—–please don’t pull the plug on it!—-and other such sites to see where the human-mind leads curiosity and how it rewards it.
    I notice that the “god sites” are not motivated by curiosity, but by a need to add inertia to one’s beliefs in the face growing societal pressure to in the opposite direction to that inertia (more on that later).
    I’ve witnessed smart minds using their smartness to prove the rightness of their beliefs.
    It’s kind of like a war between Christians and non-Christians…
    But it’s more like intellectual narcissism (the “skin” of the spiritual self/individual) seeking desperately to distinguish/distance itself from the cultural narcissism (the carnal/appetite-centric) of institutionalized self (government paradigm for FUTURE).
    The one failing point of these proof-of-god websites is that they emphasize EXISTENCE over SUBSTANCE, i.e. appearance over essence.
    I am a wandering non-believer accessing a mysterious heuristic-instinct to see/identify what I sense is there in a world of people who collectively focus on the existential over the essential, forever foiling a personal one-on-one relationship with a Creator in the event it turns out there really is a Creator.
    Thank you for your most excellent work!

  34. Posted October 27, 2014 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    first of all, I think it is awesome and incredible that you developed one of the most beautifully intricate websites based on a belief in God. And then, making the work of your “hands”/mind—-your CREATION—-produce an abrogation/denial of the fruits of that labor!
    It’s almost witnessing the temporally/historically beautiful/right betrayal leading up to Christ on the cross…

    Hey there Michael Paul,

    Thanks for the insightful comments. But I’m not sure I can accept your metaphor. I am not “denying” the “fruits of my labor” – I am exposing them for what they are, the “works of my hands.” I had fallen into the delusional belief that God actually had designed the Bible in the form of the Wheel. This was my passion for over a decade. I say “delusional” because I would collect all the data that “fit the pattern” and ignore and/or explain away all the data that did not. Freedom began to dawn one morning when my wife Rose happened to mention that “the Bible Wheel is not as perfect as you think.” She said that because during our many years of study, we kept encountering things that we “wished” were different because they would fit better on the Wheel. I suddenly realized that I – a mere mortal – could have created a Bible Wheel ten thousand times better than the one based on the Bible. And so the journey of awakening began …

    I do not believe in God.
    But I do not DIS-believe in God.

    If you do not “DIS-believe” in the God of the Bible, then I must conclude you are not familiar with what the Bible says about him. Or what? Can you really believe that a true God could kill 70,000 of his own people because their king took a census that was not even prohibited (1 Chr. 21:14)? Or that he could pass around a harem women like party treats from Saul to David to Absolom to be raped on the rooftop (2 Sam. 12:11)? Or that he would command the murder of every man, woman, and child of the Midianites except for 32,000 sexy virgins that were then distributed to the very soldiers that had slaughtered ever person they ever loved (Num 31:17)? I have no problem DIS-believing that such a God could really exist.

    I see SOMETHING, but I don’t know what it is I am looking at.
    Like a chemist who believes (not knows) that atoms are behind the Periodic Table of Elements, I have made a career in seeking “the face” of those atoms.
    You being a physicist might appreciate your instinct to see things through mathematics what others will never be able to see without mathematics.

    Now there’s something I can believe in! There is a lot of mystery in this life. I just don’t want to make a religion out of it.

    As for “seeing things others can’t see” – that’s the problem. The patterns I saw are there, but they are not distinguishable from mere coincidence. I fell into an abyss of cognitive bias, as I explained in the article above, and other recent articles.

    Here’s the problem – all I did was find “patterns” in a large data set. I “proved” the patterns by cherry picking data that fit the patterns. That is not proof. I did not account for the vast majority of verses that did not fit the pattern at all. I’m in the midst of writing an article about this today. I hope to publish it soon.

    I peruse your most-excellent website—–please don’t pull the plug on it!—-and other such sites to see where the human-mind leads curiosity and how it rewards it.

    I intend to keep the site up in perpetuity. It is a rich resource to help understand the psychology of belief which can shackle a mind. I find a lot of freedom reviewing it and debunking my logical errors.

    I am a wandering non-believer accessing a mysterious heuristic-instinct to see/identify what I sense is there in a world of people who collectively focus on the existential over the essential, forever foiling a personal one-on-one relationship with a Creator in the event it turns out there really is a Creator.
    Thank you for your most excellent work!

    I like your distinction between existential vs. essential. The whole concept of “essence” may well be fallacious in the sense that it may not refer to anything at all. I’ve always found philosophical discussions about “essence” to be lacking in substance and full of a vain weaving of words.

    Thanks again for your most excellent comments!

    Richard

  35. Ron
    Posted October 28, 2014 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    So, did this ruin yoru career? What does a disillusioned prophet do when they return from looking glass land?

  36. Posted October 28, 2014 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    No, my career is in software engineering. So no problem there.

    I wouldn’t use the term “disillusioned.” Yes, it is etymologically correct, since I have lost a particular set of illusions, or rather delusions, but it carries an entirely wrong overtone of disappointment at the loss, which I have not experienced. On the contrary, I have found myself getting rather giddy at times. It’s quite a joy to laugh at your own foibles, especially with your wife who knows you so well. It really frees the mind. A good belly laugh. Very healthy. It’s wonderful to be free from the burden of irrational dogmatic religion … especially since the burden was delusional! 🙂

  37. Posted October 29, 2014 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Ok, so the Biblewheel as evidence of an intelligent creator hypothesis seems highly unlikely to you at this point. ..but what if it is still an intentional construct (by humans who determined the Biblical Cannon)?

  38. Posted October 29, 2014 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    In as much as there are any patterns in need of explanation, then yes, I would attribute them to humans. But I do not believe that the Bible Wheel is in need of explanation.

    My claim was that the Bible Wheel was evidence of design by an intelligent agent. I now believe that I failed to support that claim so there is no reason to believe it was designed either by God or humans. In short, there is no pattern in need of explanation.

    Patterns like the kind I found are common. For example, E. L. Martin found a “sevenfold” pattern in the Bible that was integrated with both Aleph Tav and Alpha Omega by using the pattern of the Tanakh (recounting the books to reduce them from 24 to the required 22) and the “manuscript order” of the New Testament to arrive at a count of 49 (= 7 x 7) books in a symmetric pattern of 49 = 22 + 5 + 22. I explain this in my article The Bible Wheel: Patternicity on Steroids. Likewise, the 72 books of the Roman Catholic Bible can be naturally displayed on a wheel of 24 spokes corresponding to the 24 letters of the Greek alphabet, “sealing” the Catholic canon from Alpha to Omega. So the Bible Wheel pattern is not unique to the Protestant canon. I discuss this in my article The Battle of the Bible Wheels: Catholic vs. Protestant.

    Bottom line: Such patterns can be found in anything and are proof of nothing by themselves. They could be evidence if, for example, there was a statistically significant correlation between the content of the books aligned on the Spokes, but there is not. I spent years looking for such evidence and did not find it. So how then did I become convinced there was a design? Cognitive bias. I was so impressed by the few “hits” that I had found, I became blind to the overwhelming number of misses. This is why cognitive bias is so difficult to overcome. The human mind can only hold a very few concepts in the mind at one time. So if you fill your attention with the “hits” the “misses” fade into the background, leaving an illusion of design. That’s what happened with the me and the Bible Wheel.

  39. Posted October 30, 2014 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    Hi everybody.

    You must know that this is, not the beginning of people debunking God and the bible.
    Debunking started with Adam and Eve and it will be going on when you die and until the
    world come to a end.

    Anyway, we all can believe what we want and debunk God and the bible too. What will
    happen one day, we will all find out who is right and wrong when we die.

    But you know what. I liek my way better, I wait with hope in the bible and you can wait without no hope in the bible. We both will find out when we die!

  40. Posted October 30, 2014 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    Yes, everyone can “believe what they want” but some beliefs are better than others. I do my best to believe things that are true. You appear to be satisfied believing things you can only hope are true. There’s a big difference.

    I get the impression you don’t appreciate the value of critical, skeptical thinking. That’s what “debunking” is really all about. It’s about not being a gullible fool who believes whatever someone tells them. If you were raised a Muslim, I’m pretty sure you’d be saying the same stuff, only switching the Bible for the Qur’an.

    BTW – there was no Adam and Eve. Sorry for the shocking news …

  41. EN
    Posted November 2, 2014 at 12:11 am | Permalink

    Richard, I am sorry to say but you were never a Christian. It seems your entire work was based on convincing yourself (and others) of the true God and his existence , which the wheel had much to do with.
    A Christian is of faith not proof. This means you either believe everything in the Bible and believe that God is who he says he is and is in fact perfect and all his decisions are just and right and done with extreme love above above us and our understanding.
    Or your just out to convince yourself and others that there is in fact a God who created but is not the God the Bible describes. There is a big difference between the two. Believing in God and being a Christian is not the same.

    Another sign that you were not a Christian is the fact that you were impressed with the Kabbal shows. The Kabbal is of demons, and any real Christian will sense that quickly and easily as the Holy spirit reveals it. A christian will walk the other way as God told us to do. All these type of religions are trying to find the back door to God rather than entering through the front door. ITs not much different than what Adam and Eve did…….they undermind God and doubted him by thinking there was some way to outsmart him or that God was mistreating them in some way and they could be and have more. These are satanic ideas and satan had this attitude first.

    Solomon did the same thing. He was blessed wise, and ended up a fool when God took his wisdom away at old age………he was so smart he outsmarted himself. He went to demons to learn more as if God was not giving him his fair share.

    So what it really comes to in the end is………do we trust God with true faith as a Christian should, or are we just trying to figure him out so we can gain from him and his knowledge as if he was impersonal and unconscious force. Of course this will never happen, so why would anyone even try……..we cant outsmart God any sort of logic will clear that up, so its either faith or nothing.

    If you dont see God for what he is, a personal and loving God with only the best interests for humanity, then you wont find him. Yahushua being God in the flesh expressed this for us when he died on the cross for our debt.

    It doesnt seem that you have known God on an intimate level or have been filled with his Holy spirit.

  42. Posted November 2, 2014 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Richard, I am sorry to say but you were never a Christian. It seems your entire work was based on convincing yourself (and others) of the true God and his existence , which the wheel had much to do with.
    A Christian is of faith not proof. This means you either believe everything in the Bible and believe that God is who he says he is and is in fact perfect and all his decisions are just and right and done with extreme love above above us and our understanding.

    Thank you EN for explaining that all Christian apologists, preachers, and believers who have ever tried to give evidence of the truth of Christianity have proved nothing but that they are not “true” Christians. That really clears things up! According to you, they are all deluded fools. I could not agree more.

  43. Jack
    Posted November 2, 2014 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    the bible is not written by God, but it does contain mysterious patterns. it’s a fact that there is gematria and isopsephy in the bible. Jewish mystics and kabbalists put it in there.

  44. Jack
    Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    There are secrets in the bible. 666 is a triangular number. You were on the right track… but you must understand that these are riddles invented by men, not secret patterns designed by God.

  45. Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Hey there Jack,

    I know of only one example of gematria that we know was deliberately put in the Bible – the infamous “number of the beast” (666 or 616) in Revelation 13:18. There are a few other examples that are not so sure, such as the 153 fish and the structuring of Matthew’s genealogy on the number 14 which is the gematria of “David” in Hebrew. Is there any reason to believe the other stuff that you say “Jewish mystics and kabbalists put it in there” is anything but random coincidence? If so, please share the evidence that has convinced you.

    Thanks!

    Richard

  46. Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Jack,

    Why would you think that there are “riddles” based on triangular numbers in the Bible? It seems much more likely that the number 666 (or 616) was a cipher representing Caesar Nero(n), since the two spellings give 666 and 616 which are the two variants we have for that text. The fact that one of those numbers happens to be a triangle is probably just a meaningless coincidence.

    Richard

  47. Jack
    Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    ΙΗΣΟΥΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ
    = 2368
    = 1480 + 888
    = 296(5 + 3)
    = 37*64 [product of hexagram and perfect square]

  48. Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Jack, I’ve known that stuff for many years. Is there any reason to believe it is anything but the product of coincidence?

  49. Jack
    Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    Triangular numbers are extremely rare. There are only about 10 of them in the first 1 million integers. Anyways, the author clearly says, “here requires wisdom: count 666. It’s the number of someone” so obviously it’s some kind of riddle. Also the word translated as “count” is ΨΗΦΙΣΑΤΩ (“psephisato”) which literally means “count with small pebbles” and is cognate with the English word “isposephy.”

  50. Jack
    Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Whatever you believe about the Bible, you cannot deny gematria. Just look it up on Wikipedia. It’s a well-known ancient practice that is attested in many textual sources, Biblical and non-biblical. So when the name of a Very Special Character has a very interesting numerical value, then no that’s NOT a coincidence, it’s an example of the author using gematria.

  51. Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Jack, The verse you cite would apply equally well if the author intended the number 666 (or 616) as a cipher for Caesar Nero(n). The rarity of triangular numbers is not proof of design. If you want to understand the error in your logic, I recommend The Improbability Principle: Why Coincidences, Miracles, and Rare Events Happen Every Day by David Hand.

  52. Jack
    Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Ok so you know about Matthew’s genealogy and the 153 fish and 666. Why do you think those are the ONLY instances? Isn’t it reasonable to think that if the author knew this practice, he might use it in other places of the text as well? Maybe he even based the names of some or all of his characters on this pattern?

  53. Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    Whatever you believe about the Bible, you cannot deny gematria. Just look it up on Wikipedia. It’s a well-known ancient practice that is attested in many textual sources, Biblical and non-biblical. So when the name of a Very Special Character has a very interesting numerical value, then no that’s NOT a coincidence, it’s an example of the author using gematria.

    I do not deny that gematria exists. What I deny is that mere numerical coincidences are proof that the text was deliberately coded by “Jewish mystics and kabbalists.” You have not presented any evidence that there are any patterns that could not be explained by coincidence. The patterns you find are exactly what we would expect from coincidence. There are no general patterns consistent throughout the Bible. No matter how many examples you think you have found, they represent a tiny cherry-picked sample that does not represent the whole body of the text. Therefore, the most likely explanation is mere coincidence. If you have any evidence suggesting otherwise, please share it.

  54. Jack
    Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    You’re saying “there’s no proof that it was designed” but in the same breath you say it was designed to equal Nero Caesar. I can’t understand you.

  55. Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Ok so you know about Matthew’s genealogy and the 153 fish and 666. Why do you think those are the ONLY instances? Isn’t it reasonable to think that if the author knew this practice, he might use it in other places of the text as well? Maybe he even based the names of some or all of his characters on this pattern?

    I think those are the only examples because they are the only examples I have seen after more than a decade of research. What other examples are you thinking of?

  56. Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    You’re saying “there’s no proof that it was designed” but in the same breath you say it was designed to equal Nero Caesar. I can’t understand you.

    I said the “rarity of triangular numbers is not proof of design” – meaning, of course, that that was not proof it was designed with triangular numbers in mind. I then went on to explain that the most likely explanation was that it was “designed” as a cipher of Caesar Nero(n) and gave the textual variations (666 vs. 616) as evidence. Do you now understand?

  57. Jack
    Posted November 2, 2014 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Anyways it’s a known fact that biblical authors knew the practice of gematria and used it in their writings.

    666 is triangular
    888 is ΙΗΣΟΥΣ

    I suppose that’s a coincidence too?

  58. Posted November 2, 2014 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Anyways it’s a known fact that biblical authors knew the practice of gematria and used it in their writings.

    666 is triangular
    888 is ΙΗΣΟΥΣ

    I suppose that’s a coincidence too?

    Yes those are both meaningless coincidences. Your examples are not even consistent. Both are repdigits, but only one is triangular. This is a good example of how numerologists delude themselves with “patterns.” They just throw all the random patterns together in a big pile and say “What are the chances of that?!”

    It is absurd to think that the value of Jesus = 888 was deliberately designed by some “Jewish mystics” because it is just the standard Greek translation of the common Hebrew name Yehoshua. For your hypothesis to be true, you would have to believe that those same “Jewish mystics” designed the Greek language with that gematria in mind. There is no evidence for such a wild speculation.

    Common sense and the history of how the language evolved dictate it was a mere coincidence. Mystics made a big deal about it long after the language formed.

  59. Jack
    Posted November 2, 2014 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    In a text that boasts of containing mysteries and secrets and wonders and revelations, it is insane to think that the name 888 was NOT deliberately designed. You must be unaware. Gematria was the literary fashion of time. Greek poets used it extensively. There are literally hundreds of examples of Greek words and phrases deliberately constructed to make a numeric value. If you think the New Testament is somehow an exception, you’re crazy.

  60. Posted November 2, 2014 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    In a text that boasts of containing mysteries and secrets and wonders and revelations, it is insane to think that the name 888 was NOT deliberately designed. You must be unaware. Gematria was the literary fashion of time. Greek poets used it extensively. There are literally hundreds of examples of Greek words and phrases deliberately constructed to make a numeric value. If you think the New Testament is somehow an exception, you’re crazy.

    I could agree that the USE of the preexisting value of Jesus = 888 by mystics makes perfect sense, but it would be insane to suggest that the name and its numerical value were deliberately designed because that’s not how the Greek language evolved. The numbers came much later, long after the language and names like “Jesus” were already established. The “mystics” who saw meaning in those numbers merely cherry-picked numbers they liked from the preexisting language.

    It is easy to understand why polished Greek writers would use gematria as a game in their compositions. It is not so obvious that the writers of the NT would do the same thing. If your assertions were true, you could just point me to the evidence published in peer-reviewed journals rather than merely asserting that it would be “insane” to disagree with your opinion.

    Edit: I moved the conversation with Jack to a new thread called Debunking Daniel Gleason, the “Jesus is a Circle” guy because that became the focus of Jack’s comments. The conversation can be picked up here.

  61. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    Your motives for debunking yourself appear more closely linked to your crises of faith and moral problems with Christianity and God than anything based on logic or reason.
    This overconfidence of reason is a huge problem. You cannot arrive to truth simply by applying a bunch of logical rules and spouting a bunch of shit about cherry picking (we can apply logical fallacies to absolutely any ontological system including most scientific knowledge). Truth requires inductive reasoning as well as deductive reasoning. We can only say what is probable vs what isn’t probable. What you have found are a set of very unlikely symmetries within the Biblical text. If you could find these same symmetries within other texts then you could say its simply a result of cherry picking, but I’m not so sure that you could.

  62. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    How can we say that your debunking is not part of irrational rationalization against your own claims? Simply attacking another person’s reasoning does not an argument make. Saying “YOU’RE IRRATIONAL” is not an argument. Very sad that you had such a moral crisis against Christianity, maybe someday you’ll come back.

  63. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    Not that I’m a big fan of the Christian RELIGION myself, religion is carnal worship and Christ did not mention anything about religion…he specifically condemned the “teachers of the law”. The more accurate translation of ekklesia is “assembly people called out from the world to God”…some translations of ekklesia can even mean spontaneous gatherings of people. This has nothing to do with an organized earthly “church”.

  64. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    “Each person makes up their own explanations.”
    And each skeptic makes up their own counter-explanations. You’re just making shit up too. Why is your making up of shit any more valid than their making up of shit? Are you special?

  65. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    How can we say that your debunking is not part of irrational rationalization against your own claims? Simply attacking another person’s reasoning does not an argument make. Saying “YOU’RE IRRATIONAL” is not an argument. Very sad that you had such a moral crisis against Christianity, maybe someday you’ll come back.

    What are you talking about? When have I said “you’re irrational” without presenting an argument?

    You want to know how you can tell if I am merely making “irrational rationalizations against my own claims”? That’s easy. Use your brain and evaluate the evidence and reasons I have presented. If you find a flaw, then challenge me on it. It’s pretty simple stuff.

    And I have not simply had a “moral crisis against Christianity.” I have recognized the fundamental flaws of the religion on many counts, notable but not only on morality. First, there is no such thing as “Christianity” but rather an incoherent mass of contradictory “Christianities.” Second, the Bible contains errors, contradictions, absurdities, ancient mythologies, and moral abominations attributed to god. There is no reason anyone should believe it. It’s not even a well-defined object! Different denominations have different Bibles. And finally, all the “evidence” I had collected fails because it was nothing but a grand monument to cherry picking and confirmation bias. If you think I have erred in any of my judgments, please explain why.

    Thanks!

  66. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    It’s not a coincidence that you start debunking the Bible Wheel not long after you reject Christ. All that work you did collapses because you don’t know the love of Christ. You place your own fallible moral judgements (all human moral judgement is inherently fallible) above the judgements of Christ and of God (perhaps the future result of NOT killing a large group of people could be much much worse than the suffering from killing them, did you ever possibly consider that?). The problem that you and other skeptics have is that you are very UN-skeptical of your OWN intellectual power, which is very very very small in the grand scheme of things. There is no such thing as a skeptic, just a person that claims skepticism while fiercely defending their OWN bullshit.

  67. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    Your problem lies in the fact that you tie religious doctrine to the Bible. Religion is carnal worship and people are exhorted to follow Christ, not religion, in the Bible. I am explaining exactly why your judgement is flawed, but perhaps you’re just ignoring it. You will likely continue to ignore my explanations and keep believing in your own almighty intelligence, something that is obviously fallible.

  68. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    Second, the Bible contains errors, contradictions, absurdities, ancient mythologies, and moral abominations attributed to god.

    Incorrect. These errors are your own errors, not God’s. You have subscribed to a materialistic-rationalistic belief system, the fruits of which are things like WW2 and the Communist slaughters in China and Russia, but keep thinking that God is the evil one and not you 😉

  69. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    “For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.”

    Your choice to reject Christ despite his free gift to you is why you are unable to believe the Bible wheel. Unfortunately for you God Almighty does not give a fuck what YOU believe.

    16 There are six things the Lord hates,
    seven that are detestable to him:
    17 haughty eyes,
    a lying tongue,
    hands that shed innocent blood,
    18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
    feet that are quick to rush into evil,
    19 a false witness who pours out lies
    and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

  70. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    “Each person makes up their own explanations.”
    And each skeptic makes up their own counter-explanations. You’re just making shit up too. Why is your making up of shit any more valid than their making up of shit? Are you special?

    First, I do not present my shit as the “revealed truth of God” like Christians do.

    Second, your question seems to suggest that all explanations are equally shit. The problem is not that “people make up shit” but rather how and why and if their shit is valid. Your comment is like saying “Why can’t I say 1 + 2 = 78? You say that 1 + 2 = 3. What makes your math better than mine?” The problem with your question is that you are implying that all arguments are equally true and/or indeterminate. That is, of course, absurd.

  71. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    Your eyes are very haughty, you are arrogant and prideful and confident in your OWN intelligence above that of others. Until you humble yourself you will continue to perish. Do you think God saves arrogant men? Well…you’ll eventually be saved…God is infinitely loving, infinitely merciful and infinitely patient, but it doesn’t mean you won’t suffer in the afterlife until the Final Judgement. Gehenna is a garbage dump and quarantine zone, its a place for people who, in their lifetimes acted in a mostly shitty manner and caused harm to others, and simply did not believe. Of course…it’s not my place to say you’ll go there, that judgement is not reserved for me, I’m simply trying to warn you. I was just the same as you once. I KNOW that gehenna is real, I’ve been there. Of course you can continue to just believe I’m delusional and not you, that is of course your right as a Man with free will.

  72. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    Your problem lies in the fact that you tie religious doctrine to the Bible. Religion is carnal worship and people are exhorted to follow Christ, not religion, in the Bible. I am explaining exactly why your judgement is flawed, but perhaps you’re just ignoring it. You will likely continue to ignore my explanations and keep believing in your own almighty intelligence, something that is obviously fallible.

    You suggested that I may be ignoring your explanation before you even posted it? What kind of madness is that?

    Your tone is exactly what I would expect from an anti-intellectual brainwashed religious robot. Good work! You are really helping people see what your religion does to the hearts and minds of believers.

  73. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    “Why can’t I say 1 + 2 = 78? You say that 1 + 2 = 3. What makes your math better than mine?”

    http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/falsean.htm

    Cmon bro I thought you were logical? Making up bullshit false analogies does not a good argument make.

  74. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    I’m not a Christian bro…this is what people like you are unable to understand. You’re so wrapped up in hate that you automatically ascribe words to me that I never said. You make all these silly assumptions about a person that you hate that are not true in reality.

  75. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    Your eyes are very haughty, you are arrogant and prideful and confident in your OWN intelligence above that of others. Until you humble yourself you will continue to perish. Do you think God saves arrogant men? Well…you’ll eventually be saved…God is infinitely loving, infinitely merciful and infinitely patient, but it doesn’t mean you won’t suffer in the afterlife until the Final Judgement. Gehenna is a garbage dump and quarantine zone, its a place for people who, in their lifetimes acted in a mostly shitty manner and caused harm to others, and simply did not believe. Of course…it’s not my place to say you’ll go there, that judgement is not reserved for me, I’m simply trying to warn you. I was just the same as you once. I KNOW that gehenna is real, I’ve been there. Of course you can continue to just believe I’m delusional and not you, that is of course your right as a Man with free will.

    Oh the sweet joy of the Christian witness! Look at the wonderful fruit of the Holy Dildo up Josh’s arrogant little ass!

    And note – he made up his own definition of hell. Apparently he is a universalist! Other Christians say that is one of the worst of all heresies.

  76. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Cmon, get that spirit out of you man, I can tell he wants you to be angry with me, despite me doing nothing to harm you. It’s really not natural that you’d be so upset over a simple disagreement of opinion. Why do you think you’re so angry?

  77. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Yep yep, I can see that Devil in you, look at those nasty words you’re spouting without any good reason. Just let the hate out for all the world to see, show them to us Devil!

  78. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Wicked people are predictable. You can see how angry they get when the truth is presented to them. Look how he curses and spits at me like a beast! Someone who follows the Beast will act like a Beast.

  79. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    Yep yep, I can see that Devil in you, look at those nasty words you’re spouting without any good reason. Just let the hate out for all the world to see, show them to us Devil!

    Reason? You have not written a word of “reason.” You have spouted out your arrogance, projecting it upon me. Look at what you wrote: “Your eyes are very haughty, you are arrogant and prideful and confident in your OWN intelligence above that of others.” Those words describe you Josh. You are the arrogant man here who thinks he KNOWS God’s own truth without any evidence of any kind supporting your crazy delusions.

  80. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    It’s kind of like how in the movies, Demons get burned by crosses. Just as Demons get burned by crosses, wicked people get very angry when the truth is presented to them. It burns them internally and all this hate pours out of them.

  81. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    Cmon, get that spirit out of you man, I can tell he wants you to be angry with me, despite me doing nothing to harm you. It’s really not natural that you’d be so upset over a simple disagreement of opinion. Why do you think you’re so angry?

    Ha! So the “demon in me” want’s me to be angry? Look at what you wrote Josh! You spewed out your mindless judgement upon me, calling me arrogant, haughty, etc. When people respond by telling you that you are an arrogant little shit, you can’t blame it on their “anger.” You asked for it. You got it. You are a arrogant brain-dead religious robot.

  82. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE7PKRjrid4

    That’s all I can say on this matter. Good luck and god bless you.

  83. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    Man a normal human being doesn’t spout that kind of hate at a stranger over a difference of opinion. It’s unnatural. Why are you so upset?

  84. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    Here you go calling me “religious” again. Religion is carnal worship as I’ve stated before. Christ isn’t about all that religion shit. But you keep letting those false preconceptions rule over your thinking if you’d like.

  85. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    I mean calling me all those names, what is up with that man? Do you think spewing vitriol like that will get people to think you’re a rational human being? Is that how your rationality tells you to act?

  86. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    It’s kind of like how in the movies, Demons get burned by crosses. Just as Demons get burned by crosses, wicked people get very angry when the truth is presented to them. It burns them internally and all this hate pours out of them.

    Truth? Exactly what “truth” have you written on my blog? You falsely asserted that I believed my intelligence was “almighty.” You spewed out your demonic delusions and said the demons were trying to make me angry because you had said something “true”? What kind of madness rules your soul? Wow.

  87. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Because if the fruits of rationality means you act like some kind of asshole crusader against other people, just like people have done in the past throughout history…well then rationality should be rejected outright.

  88. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    I mean calling me all those names, what is up with that man? Do you think spewing vitriol like that will get people to think you’re a rational human being? Is that how your rationality tells you to act?

    Are you telling me you are not aware that it is not “good manners” to go to a man’s blog, tell him his eyes are “haughty” and suggest he is full of demons?

    Man, you are truly psycho!

  89. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Yeah man I’m the psycho and not the guy who dedicated his life to a mathematical symmetries within the bible and is now dedicating his life to trying to destroy his own work…that’s totally not psycho at all. You need to think on why my words are making you so upset, what is the rational reason behind this?

  90. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Is it rational to be so angry at a stranger over differences in beliefs?

  91. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Because if the fruits of rationality means you act like some kind of asshole crusader against other people, just like people have done in the past throughout history…well then rationality should be rejected outright.

    Bullshit! You have not even attempted to form a rational argument. You said that I thought my own intelligence was “almighty” and that my eyes were haughty and that I had demons who were causing me to get angry. You come here, spew your mindless bullshit, and then want to talk about the “fruits of rationality” making me “act like an asshole.” Get a mirror dude. You are a total freaking asshole.

  92. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    I think the real issue here is you just can’t fucking stand being wrong about anything. See now that’s a real problem, that’s the sin of pride and it’s led to all sorts of bullshit!

  93. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    Yeah yeah I’m the asshole, because I told you that you’re wrong. LOL.

  94. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    Man a normal human being doesn’t spout that kind of hate at a stranger over a difference of opinion. It’s unnatural. Why are you so upset?

    You had no trouble judging my eyes as “haughty” and my spirit as “demonized” etc. I am not “upset” at all. I’m just using the language your comments deserve.

  95. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    I guess logically anyone that disagrees with you is just automatically wrong due to your infallible rationality and superior logic over others, and they are just assholes. This is totally justifiable LOL.

  96. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    Hey man I just call it like I see it. You’re acting pretty arrogant right now…is it rational for a man to be so sure of himself when he is spending so much time trying to disprove the work he did in the past? How do you know that your logic is functioning now and was not functioning 2 years ago? Can you be sure?

  97. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    That’s the problem with this whole “skepticism” thing. Modern skeptics are skeptical of everything except for their own intelligence and knowledge LOL. So basically it’s like the opposite of genuine skepticism.

  98. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Yeah yeah I’m the asshole, because I told you that you’re wrong. LOL.

    Did you actually show me any error? Did you actually quote anything I wrote? Nope. You merely asserted I was “wrong” and then began spewing your arrogant judgments about my supposedly “haughty” eyes and my over-estimation of my own intelligence, and that I was demonized. So yes, you most definitely have been behaving like an asshole. If you want to change your ways, you will have to do it soon, because you role as a “terrible example” of what Christianity can do to a soul has been fulfilled and there is no other reason to keep freaks like you around.

  99. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    I think the real issue here is you just can’t fucking stand being wrong about anything. See now that’s a real problem, that’s the sin of pride and it’s led to all sorts of bullshit!

    First, you have not even tried to show any error in anything I’ve written, so you comment is bullshit.

    Second, the fact that I have debunked myself proves that I have no problem admitting my errors!

    Your comments are total bullshit. All my articles debunking myself prove at least one thing – I am willing to admit when I’m wrong.

  100. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    Yeah man I’m the psycho and not the guy who dedicated his life to a mathematical symmetries within the bible and is now dedicating his life to trying to destroy his own work…that’s totally not psycho at all. You need to think on why my words are making you so upset, what is the rational reason behind this?

    OK – let me get this straight. First you accuse me of being too arrogant to admit when I’m wrong, then you accuse me of being psycho for admitting I was wrong?

    Got it.

  101. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    “Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.”

    “When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.”

    “For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.”

    “And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.”

    Logic is fallible. Knowledge is fallible. Traditions are fallible. You have to have faith in something, some things have to just be assumed about reality, you can not use reason or logic to arrive at them because you are a limited being and you don’t know everything, you in fact know barely anything compared to the vastness of available knowledge and potential knowledge. So what do you have faith in?

  102. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    >First you accuse me of being too arrogant to admit when I’m wrong, then you accuse me of being psycho for admitting I was wrong?

    These are your words, not mine, and your self-accusations, not mine. I never said such things, but I guess your powers of rationality and false implication are leading to to believe I said such things.

  103. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    I guess logically anyone that disagrees with you is just automatically wrong due to your infallible rationality and superior logic over others, and they are just assholes. This is totally justifiable LOL.

    You have not presented any “logic” – you just spewed out your arrogant judgments about my eyes being “haughty” and my spirit being demonized, etc.

    You appear to be a troll. You began by throwing out insulting bombs, and now you sit back and act all cool asking “why are you so upset?” Typical troll behavior.

  104. Posted November 3, 2014 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    >First you accuse me of being too arrogant to admit when I’m wrong, then you accuse me of being psycho for admitting I was wrong?

    These are your words, not mine, and your self-accusations, not mine. I never said such things, but I guess your powers of rationality and false implication are leading to to believe I said such things.

    Oh really? Here is what you wrote:

    I think the real issue here is you just can’t fucking stand being wrong about anything. See now that’s a real problem, that’s the sin of pride and it’s led to all sorts of bullshit!

    Yeah man I’m the psycho and not the guy who dedicated his life to a mathematical symmetries within the bible and is now dedicating his life to trying to destroy his own work…that’s totally not psycho at all.

    My words are justified. First, you suggested I was “psycho” for debunking myself, and then you said I “just can’t fucking stand being wrong about anything.”

  105. Posted November 3, 2014 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    Logic is fallible. Knowledge is fallible. Traditions are fallible. You have to have faith in something, some things have to just be assumed about reality, you can not use reason or logic to arrive at them because you are a limited being and you don’t know everything, you in fact know barely anything compared to the vastness of available knowledge and potential knowledge. So what do you have faith in?

    And faith is the most fallible of all, because it is believing shit that you can’t prove. Faith led to the death of the Jim Jones cult and the Heavens’ Gate cult. Your religious tradition, which you deny is a religious tradition, is also fallible.

    I’d love to talk about this topic, but I need to go to work.

  106. Josh
    Posted November 3, 2014 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    God bless you man.

  107. Jack
    Posted November 8, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    I wonder why you deleted all your comments? I can only assume that you are ashamed of your poor behavior and foul language – as you rightfully should be.

  108. Posted November 8, 2014 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    I wonder why you deleted all your comments? I can only assume that you are ashamed of your poor behavior and foul language – as you rightfully should be.

    I didn’t delete them. I moved them to my new post called Debunking Daniel Gleason, the “Jesus is a Circle” guy. You should have noticed this, since you have been commenting on that thread.

    I didn’t want your mindless bullshit polluting the comment stream under my serious article. But I’m more than happy for you to comment on the Debunking Daniel Gleason thread since you exemplify my point that he and those like him are deluded cranks.

    You do serve a purpose in the greater scheme of things. Thanks!

    PS: You are in no position to judge my use of language, given that you called my wife disgusting names for no reason other than to get my goat and vent your polluted spleen.

  109. Don Hoyt
    Posted November 9, 2014 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Richard,

    With your background in physics and your focus on theology, what do you think of the current conversations on consciousness and quantum mechanics by Lanza, Shan Gao, and Andrew Thomas?

    Don

  110. Posted November 9, 2014 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    With your background in physics and your focus on theology, what do you think of the current conversations on consciousness and quantum mechanics by Lanza, Shan Gao, and Andrew Thomas?

    Hi Don,

    I haven’t been following that conversation. I will Google around to see what they are saying. If you have a suggestion of a good place to start, please share it.

    Richard

  111. Don Hoyt
    Posted November 9, 2014 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    I don’t guess I mean a regular conversation. I have read several books by them. The most recent one is by Robert Lanza entitled “Biocentrism.” I just went to Amazon and searched their “books” catagory with the terms biocentrism, consciousness, and quantum mechanics.

  112. Posted November 9, 2014 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    I don’t guess I mean a regular conversation. I have read several books by them. The most recent one is by Robert Lanza entitled “Biocentrism.” I just went to Amazon and searched their “books” catagory with the terms biocentrism, consciousness, and quantum mechanics.

    Here’s what the wiki says about his theory:

    Biocentric universe (from Greek: βίος, bios, “life”; and κέντρον, kentron, “center”) — also known as biocentrism — is a concept proposed in 2007 by American doctor of medicine Robert Lanza, a scientist in the fields of regenerative medicine and biology,[1][2][3] which sees biology as the central driving science in the universe, and an understanding of the other sciences as reliant on a deeper understanding of biology. Biocentrism states that life and biology are central to being, reality, and the cosmos — life creates the universe rather than the other way around. It asserts that current theories of the physical world do not work, and can never be made to work, until they fully account for life and consciousness. While physics is considered fundamental to the study of the universe, and chemistry fundamental to the study of life, biocentrism claims that scientists will need to place biology before the other sciences to produce a theory of everything.[4]

    It looks like an interesting speculation, but nothing more at this time. That’s the problem with questions about consciousness. It’s a fascinating topic and I’ve thought about it a lot, but I don’t go much for the “woo woo” style explanations. I think its pretty clear that consciousness is a product of the physical brain, and I haven’t seen any reason to think we will need to appeal to anything “non-physical” to explain it. Of course, it may be that no explanation is even possible given the limitations of our evolved brain. But I doubt that.

    Have you read Dennett’s book “Consciousness Explained”?

  113. Edrick
    Posted November 9, 2014 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Hi Richard,
    I am sorrowed to hear that your quest for exactness of knowledge has shaken the roots of your faith. You reasoned yourself in and you reasoned yourself out, no major difference in process but a mighty deviation in outcome. However, the mind of man is only a component of its structure and cannot contain nor process “I AM” and His Glory nor His Son. The mind is as inadequate alone as it is necessary as a whole to gain understanding. We are given a major clue to sustainable Wisdom when told , “Not to lean on our own understanding”. We are not source of knowledge and should never be trapped in any form nor variation of this perspective.

    Let me dream that your current debunking is another “threshold of your life”, and pale in comparison of your next one to truly come to know Yeshua as a man knows a friend. A warship with top heavy weaponry will always capsize, not because of the weapons, but due to the unsuitability of the haul. May your haul be made suited to carry lastingly the weight of the knowledge you have uncovered in the bible wheel. In itself, it is not truth, but an amazing pointer to it, and only “Truth Himself” can answer the depth of your most genuine quest. His Origin, His Life, His Suffering, His Priesthood and His Rulership do not live in the confines of our limitations which are meant to be challenged, destroyed and reborn anew for a glorious expansive result . It is my prayer that you come to be intimate with the Lord of Truth Himself like never before, as you are certainly a gem not to be lost…
    To your journey ahead with all my respect and appreciation!

  114. Posted November 9, 2014 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Let me dream that your current debunking is another “threshold of your life”, and pale in comparison of your next one to truly come to know Yeshua as a man knows a friend.

    Hey there Edrick,

    I appreciate your comments. I especially like the idea of being on a “new threshold.” But I cannot believe that your words are true. When you say that you “know Yeshua as a man knows a friend” you appear to be copying the metaphorical language of the Bible. Surely, you do not intend those words literal! Or what? Are you saying you have seen him physically?

    Of course, we both know that your words actually have no content. You are merely speaking of your subjective feelings, like a Mormon who gets a “burning in the bosom” and so believes what his religious leaders told him. If I am wrong on this, please explain to me exactly what you meant when you said I could “know Yeshua as a man knows a friend.” Now before you answer, please meditate upon the fact that I would have said the same thing when I was a believer, so I can see that this emperor has no clothes. Merely telling me about your subjective experiences will only confirm that your words are empty like the Muslims who “feel the presence of Muhammad and smell his perfume” in their prayer meetings. I trust you understand my challenge is based on a clear perception (which I’m sure you share) that the vast majority of religious beliefs are entirely unfounded. So your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to explain to me why your “Yeshua” is more real than all the other delusional religious experiences people have.

    Thanks again for taking time to discuss this with me!

    Richard

  115. Posted November 10, 2014 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for the info you have put up, I have found it useful in my own studies and I appreciate your ability to distance yourself from your own ideas and examine them critically. I have long since left any semblance of mainstream, fundamentalist christianity, but still find the works of the bible bear the clear marks of the ancient mystery schools. I wonder if you have taken a bit of an “all or nothing” approach in your refutation.

    Yes, there are many errors in the bible, enough to repudiate forever the fundamentalist idea that it is the inerrant “word of god”. However, the texts of Greek mythology have far more errors, but that doesn’t mean we toss them out. For me, there is still plenty of room to examine the bible as a mythological tour de force that expresses the fragmented, initiatory teachings of an ancient school. There is a common thread running through the entire bible, which might be expressed as the idea that those who reject the outward show of power have more influence on the cosmos within and the cosmos without than those who appear in control. The story of Christ has influenced humanity more than any king, scholar, scientist, dictator or social reformer ever will, all through a rejection of “power”. The same principle is revealed in the first day of creation. All of our efforts just bring us closer to the understanding that the light is already there and just needs to be received.

    Your quote – “I came to see that God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers, and that this directly contradicts the plain teaching of Scripture and the whole point of the religion which posits a parent-like Father God who watches over us, protects us from harm, and answers our prayers” reveals that you bought into the fundamentalist interpretation of scripture from the get go. Little wonder that you would reject such an idea. The bible teaches that the human form is an image of God, but God is not an image of the human. God is beyond any such concept as father, or parent. Such terms are used as metaphors, not as definite aspects of divinity.

    I rejected my church upbringing when I was around 18 or 19. I spent a few years finding all the errors and absurdities in the bible and using my knowledge to refute ignorant churchgoers. About age 25, I realized that the gospel mythology had exerted a force on history that was undeniably conscious in intent. I realized with certainty that to believe these stories were crafted by ignorant fishermen, religious zealots, or anyone on that level was pure stupidity. The gospels were pure genius, as much as the gothic cathedrals built by the masons. These stories were crafted by someone who completely understood the human psyche and how to appeal to the deepest shadows of the subconscious.

    One does not have to believe that the bible is the inerrant word of god to see that it conveys a path towards consciousness and presence that could only have been crafted by the same kind of schools that produced the Arthurian legends later, or the Koran for that matter.

    Given that it sounds like you were trapped in mainstream church dogma, you may be right to run from bible studies. Keep working towards consciousness, that is the important thing. Consciousness is God.

    Remember that when Christ said to the disciples “O ye of little faith” it had nothing to do with a lack of “belief” – this quote was actually to remonstrate the disciples for thinking too literally. Fact is, Christ equated lack of faith with a mindset that was too literal. Hope you find what you are searching for.

    Thank you though for sharing your work and best wishes as you move on to what is next. Hope you keep it up, as it is quite interesting and contains many gems regardless of whether the entire scheme is correct.

  116. MichaelFree
    Posted November 11, 2014 at 3:00 am | Permalink

    Name a religion that doesn’t dehumanize and reject other people in some way because of either their gender, their religion, their atheism, their ethnicity, their nationality, their sexuality, what they look like, or their personal habits that don’t affect anyone else (It’s one thing and good to develop good habits in life but quite another (Spirit) to go around not seeing the humanity and dignity in all people because of what you perceive to be their bad habits)?

    Negativity and viewing the world in a dehumanizing way instead of in a positive, humanizing, and celebratory way is shameful and a sad teaching.

    Being free of these chains and instead finding understanding and honor and a true love of humanity and a true love of the Earth (the Creation) is a gift.

    Richard, didn’t you think about these things when you were a believer and you rejected so many people here on Earth? What if heaven is real and everyone and every group you once rejected is present and enjoying heaven? Wouldn’t you feel like a jackass for not seeing them as equals here on Earth? Why did you accept the rejection of so many people that your religion taught you to reject?

    It’s my belief that all the dividers and exclusionists have been cheated.

    I could see it in the eyes of humanity across the spectrum of all the groups I mentioned above.

    See the goodness in all who do good and then you’ll know the Spirit of the m
    Most High. Deny them their goodness and you are blind to the Spirit.

    It’s one thing to be blind to the bullshit but quite another to be blind to the Spirit.

  117. adam
    Posted November 11, 2014 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    I’m surprised I’m leaving a comment. I would like to start by thanking you for having the site up. Found it through looking up the gemtria of a word. The database you contructed is nice. I just read your article since I found the link at the top of your site, and found the hook interesting enough to spend time reading it.
    I saw your problem the first time I started looking through some of your articles on the site, which I found less useful than the database. You built your own idol, and have now lost faith in it. Good. If I read a book by Hemmingway written by other men and claimed to know Hemmingway myself because of how well I connected the thoughts other men believed about him together that would be irrational. If those authors describe the way they found his house and I followed similar steps I might meet Ernest himself, presuming he was alive.
    Also, according to your article your original source materials and beliefs were based on people who had already built and worshipped their own idols, like Crowley (noted satanist) and trips induced by incredibly unreliable drugs. Bummer.
    Sucks when you find out your wooden idol cannot hear or see despite believing it could. Even if it allowed you to function among a social religion christianity has become in the west.
    I suppose I wouldn’t be outing myself if I said I’m trying to follow Christ, but the bible is a map with signposts, not a creator.
    You write well. I enjoyed reading your article. I hope the best for you and that you find the all the good things to enjoy in life that are blessings.

    Adam

  118. Posted November 11, 2014 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    I suppose I wouldn’t be outing myself if I said I’m trying to follow Christ, but the bible is a map with signposts, not a creator.

    Hi Adam,

    I appreciate your comments. Are you saying that the Bible contains errors? If so, how do you discern between the true parts and the errors? Is anything in it inspired by God, or are you of the opinion that it is just a human record of experiences people attributed to their god?

    You built your own idol, and have now lost faith in it. Good.

    I agree. It is good to be done with both the Bible Wheel and ugly idol Yahweh.

    Also, according to your article your original source materials and beliefs were based on people who had already built and worshipped their own idols, like Crowley (noted satanist)

    I also learned numerology from Crowley. Does that mean you reject that too? If not, why not?

    Of course, there was nothing about the Bible Wheel per se that had anything to do with Crowley, and I totally rejected his work after becoming Christian, including a good old fashioned burning of his books with much prayer. So I don’t really see what he has to do with anything.

    All the best,

    Richard

  119. Posted November 12, 2014 at 4:10 am | Permalink

    Howdy there, I want to pinpoint a commonest obstacle just in case it could help you or any other studying these matrices: degrees of freedom when projecting abstract 2D models into 3D worlds.. this takes care of the insertion of complete Indetermination and locates the sacred “unspoken” in its correct place, you findings are mostly correct as they encompass abstraction in the structural order of the finite cosmos, therefore I quote:

    “The basic problem is the incompatiblity of two geometric models: the 4-6 3-D geometry of the Cube of Space of the Sepher Yetsira, and the 3-7 2-D geometry of the Tree of Life of later Kabbalah. The collision of these models resulted in a confusion between the seventh double letter Tav and its “hidden” direction in the center of the six extremities, and the seventh sephira of the Tree of Life”

    The resulting model manages to describe as a matrix life and its manifestations, including dogmatism/biases/uncertainties and pretty much anything I challenged it with so far.. it is a very basic understanding of what otherwise would be impossible to speak of.. I would post details for how to project but I remembered you’re a physicist so you know better already. Maybe that’s why your model still seems correct, just my 2 cents ^-^

  120. Joshua
    Posted November 12, 2014 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Hi Richard,
    i’m sad you felt you had to “debunk” yourself, but it seems you have had your own personal apocalypse of what you had seen.
    Have you ever seen the beautiful spiral patterns in a sunflower? Have you ever gazed at one for so long that you saw the petals fall off and the colours fade? Maybe your revelation was like this. It doesn’t mean the sunflower was only a lie or an illusion does it? Maybe it does. Depends on perspective.
    The energies of the Universe do use maths when making patterns and forms, our human bodies are full of mathematical proportions, so why wouldn’t this be reflected in the things we create too, even if the patterns are made subconsciously without intention?
    Maybe you got caught in a circle and it became a vicious circle, when it should have been a spiral… this might have given more freedom of movement for your thoughts in time and space. Life always seems to continue, have you ever imagined another Alpha comes after an Omega? Every End contains the seed of a Beginning. Like fruit.
    I’d like to recommend a book to you. Nemu’s End by Reverend Nemu.
    and youtube videos about the writers of the new testament by Dr Bart Ehrman.

  121. Posted November 13, 2014 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    Hi Richard,
    i’m sad you felt you had to “debunk” yourself, but it seems you have had your own personal apocalypse of what you had seen.
    Have you ever seen the beautiful spiral patterns in a sunflower? Have you ever gazed at one for so long that you saw the petals fall off and the colours fade? Maybe your revelation was like this. It doesn’t mean the sunflower was only a lie or an illusion does it? Maybe it does. Depends on perspective.

    The energies of the Universe do use maths when making patterns and forms, our human bodies are full of mathematical proportions, so why wouldn’t this be reflected in the things we create too, even if the patterns are made subconsciously without intention?

    Hey there Josh,

    I really like the way you articulated your question. Yes, I have had my “my own personal apocalypse” – but let’s remember the literal meaning of that word is “revelation” in the sense of “unveiling.” Think of the kind of freedom comes when you recognize that you have fooled yourself. I was in a prison of my own making.

    And yes, I agree that the patterns humans create often have mathematical proportions. This is particularly obvious in the case of the Bible Wheel with its 22 spokes, three cycles, and so forth. I never denied that the patterns themselve “exist.” The question is only what, if any, meaning they may have.

    Maybe you got caught in a circle and it became a vicious circle, when it should have been a spiral… this might have given more freedom of movement for your thoughts in time and space. Life always seems to continue, have you ever imagined another Alpha comes after an Omega? Every End contains the seed of a Beginning. Like fruit.

    Interesting suggestion. There is a huge difference between an open spiral and a closed circle. I experimented with the spiral on the day the Bible Wheel first occurred to me, but quickly settled on the circle. Who knows where I would have gone had I chosen the spiral?

    And yes, I have thought of Omega like an “egg” containing the seed of the new Alpha. This symbology fits well with the Tarot, with the Alpha representing the Fool (first card) which is the individualized Ego (egg). Alpha and Omega.

    I’d like to recommend a book to you. Nemu’s End by Reverend Nemu.
    and youtube videos about the writers of the new testament by Dr Bart Ehrman.

    Thanks! I’ll check it out.

    Great chatting my friend,

    Richard

  122. Edrick
    Posted November 17, 2014 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    | I trust you understand my challenge is based on a clear perception (which I’m sure you share) that the vast majority of religious beliefs are entirely unfounded. So your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to explain to me why your “Yeshua” is more real than all the other delusional religious experiences people have.|

    Hey Richard,
    What help can I really be over this blog for such a huge ticket item… I cannot succeed in this mission,… you alone can! I will certainly not do any better that the one I chose to follow. I read that Christ (Yeshua) Himself was opposed by the arguments of those who contemplated Him face to face (yes, in real world terms)… But certainly did not know Him as a friend in spite of all the evidences put forth by him even in the raising of the dead and countless miracles annoying the religion in power – even with that they had issues (pretty hopeless)… So the senses, or seeing, or reason are not the key here as they are limited vessels of understanding – very limited indeed! This is one old battle Richard, it has always been, always will be until, Messiah Himself is revealed to all senses and all humanity in all condition right here on earth – but I am afraid we got to wait a little more for that…

    When this happens (assuming that it was not a delusion 🙂 , faith will not be in effect anymore as your visual, auditory and kinesthetic senses will receive direct feed on information… So you will then love meeting with unveiled faces, or you won’t – don’t have much to say about that, I leave it with you. During Christ walking on the earth, others have already had that experience, and it turned pretty ugly for some, and awesome for others, although they were also treated with “contradictions” and “arguments” by opposing fellows… Let me simply quote and expand “The Righteous (The One in Alignment with His Way of Being) will LIVE (Draw Life) by… Faith (The Evidence of what is NOT SEEN). I apologize as this is going to frustrate you more than help…

    Delusions and contradictions need to articulate themselves on the premise of the preeminence of truth. Contradictions, lies, delusions do not exist in and of themselves but in reaction to truth. I beleive that truth is not a human state or condition, but the timeless essence of Yhaweh (Not using God on purpose here – as the term God feeds many contradictions). You have put FAITH on trial as you judged it with your reason…. unfortunately, FAITH is of higher purpose and stature and reason does not have the means or authority to judge it, no more than it should be turned off! Furthermore, FAITH alone is nothing, and can also be the beginning of delusion, until directed to the person of the SON OF GOD and to not a bunch of religious precepts – which are better than any other religious precepts.

    So FAITH lives in relationship to one you can see only through your spiritual essence and senses… So being a Christian Richard, as you found out is IMPOSSIBLE! Don’t even try it! Letting yourself be found by YESHUA MESSIAH is the only hope you have as you let Holy Spirit fulfill His mission which He has already accepted but which will never overide your free will! But it is going to require total humility (can be very scary) and the turning off of your debating religion for a time, if you don’t mind me to say… Whatever rules your thinking and your choices, this is your God! You will have to pick who that is going to be… If it is going to be the Yeshua the bible spectacularly leads to, it is going to take mega surrender before your mind is put back in contributing service. Right now, it is running the show, and can only lead to… delusion! Sorry Richard, but disbelief is also religion…

    Edrick

  123. Daniel
    Posted November 19, 2014 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Not sure if Richard will see this but I came across Richard’s website recently and I read the debunking the Bible Wheel article he had written which was associated with his abandonment of the Christian faith. Richard, I think you are a very smart man but maybe not so wise… You know better than anyone that “the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom…” (1st Corinthians 1:25) and “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom…” (Proverbs 9:10). Be well.
    From,
    Math Guy
    Grateful Dead, Buffalo, ’92
    .

  124. Posted November 19, 2014 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    Not sure if Richard will see this but I came across Richard’s website recently and I read the debunking the Bible Wheel article he had written which was associated with his abandonment of the Christian faith. Richard, I think you are a very smart man but maybe not so wise… You know better than anyone that “the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom…” (1st Corinthians 1:25) and “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom…” (Proverbs 9:10). Be well.
    From,
    Math Guy
    Grateful Dead, Buffalo, ’92

    Hey there Daniel,

    I know that the Bible says “the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom” but I have no reason to believe it is true. If you think that I am lacking in any wisdom, it should be very simple for you to explain how I have erred.

    All the best,

    Richard

  125. Daniel
    Posted November 19, 2014 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    I hope you at least believe in the Golden Rule, central to most religions.
    -Daniel

  126. Daniel
    Posted November 20, 2014 at 12:20 am | Permalink

    You remind me of the prodigal child who goes away for a while… even Einstein believed there was a God. Well, goodnight…
    Religious views of Albert Einstein

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Albert Einstein’s religious views have been studied extensively. He said he believed in the “pantheistic” God of Baruch Spinoza, but not in a personal god, a belief he criticized. He also called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label atheist, preferring, he said, “an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.”[

  127. Posted November 20, 2014 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    I hope you at least believe in the Golden Rule, central to most religions.
    -Daniel

    Not only do I believe in the Golden Rule, I believe it is the naturalistic foundation of morality and that it has absolutely nothing to do with any god. I’ve written about this a lot. Here are my two main articles on the topic:

    The Logic of Love: A Natural Theory of Morality

    The Golden Rule and the Foundation of Objective Morality

  128. Posted November 20, 2014 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    You remind me of the prodigal child who goes away for a while… even Einstein believed there was a God. Well, goodnight…
    Religious views of Albert Einstein

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Albert Einstein’s religious views have been studied extensively. He said he believed in the “pantheistic” God of Baruch Spinoza, but not in a personal god, a belief he criticized. He also called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label atheist, preferring, he said, “an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.”

    Einstein’s “god” was really just a metaphor for reality. It was not personal, and so was nothing like the kind of God proposed by the Abrahamic religions. He was not a theist and so was, by definition, an atheist like me.

    It’s quite ironic to be told I’m acting like a child when in fact I am finally acting like an adult by rejecting childish religious beliefs.

    And it’s even more ironic because believers have no rational defense of their beliefs.

    This is a common reaction I get from believers. It just happened the other day. I talk about it in my post On the Couch with Psychoanalyst Terry Blanchard. He accused me of being an impatient, petulant child with an immature theology who has no rational basis for rejecting Christianity, but rather is just throwing a tantrum because I didn’t get what I wanted. He also explained that all the insults Christians throw at me are my fault because of how I talk to people. I answered him with grace and respect, so he responded by saying “You are really full of shit. Go fuck yourself.”

  129. Daniel
    Posted November 20, 2014 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Didn’t mean to insult you – your situation just reminds me of the Prodigal Son parable from the bible – that’s all. Sorry about that.

  130. Posted November 20, 2014 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    Didn’t mean to insult you – your situation just reminds me of the Prodigal Son parable from the bible – that’s all. Sorry about that.

    I took no offense. I just wanted to let you know how I understood your comments. I can understand why you would think there is a connection with the Prodigal Son since there is a superficial similarity, but that’s all there is – a superficial similarity. The Prodigal Son asked for his inheritance so to could go spend it on high times and harlots. Then when he ran out of money he ran back to daddy. I really don’t see how this has any application to the reasons I reject the Bible.

  131. Daniel
    Posted November 20, 2014 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    The way I see it is there are many different paths (religions) to climb a mountain (have a relationship with a higher power – lets just call that higher power God for simplicity’s sake). Christianity, Islam and Pantheism are but a few of the ways to climb that mountain (God’s on top of the mountain). I have chosen the path of Christianity to “climb that mountain”. You did too for a while. One of my attractions to Christianity is it seems to be the only religion where God comes down to us from the mountain. Now that’s love. Ever read Vonnegut’s Cat’s Cradle? Here’s the end of the book: “If I were a younger man, I would write a history of human stupidity; and I would climb to the top of Mount McCabe and lie down on my back with my history for a pillow; and I would take from the ground some of the blue-white poison that makes statues of men; and I would make a statue of myself, lying on my back, grinning horribly, and thumbing my nose at You Know Who. (127.9)” I guess even Bokononism resulting in dreamed of suicide and lost cause of humanity (Sparknotes) is another way of having a relationship with a higher power according to Vonnegut. And then there’s Atheism – why climb the mountain when there is no God to have a relationship with afterall…

  132. Daniel
    Posted November 20, 2014 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    I guess what I’m trying to say is it seems one universal aspect of the human condition is that of seeking truth as you and I and most everyone have gone about doing in their own ways. For me I choose the Christian path. One reason I commit to Christianity is “so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.” (Ephesians 4:14) That’s just me. Others might choose a different path such as “The good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving” (Lao Tzu) for example…

  133. Posted November 20, 2014 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    I guess what I’m trying to say is it seems one universal aspect of the human condition is that of seeking truth as you and I and most everyone have gone about doing in their own ways. For me I choose the Christian path. One reason I commit to Christianity is “so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.” (Ephesians 4:14) That’s just me. Others might choose a different path such as “The good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving” (Lao Tzu) for example…

    Hey there David,

    This conversation is getting very interesting.

    It seems rather strange that you would treat Christianity as an arbitrary choice from the confused buffet of contradictory religions. What happened to the concept of truth? You seem to be suggesting that there is some “truth” that is not identical with any form of Christianity nor exclusive of any path anyone chooses to follow. So Scientology, Mormonism, Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, and Atheism are all ultimately just different “paths” to the same destination?

    The funny thing about your position is that it strikes me as the paragon of what it means to be “tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.” It seems you have abandoned the very concept of truth in your desire to justify your arbitrary choice to call yourself a Christian. It makes no sense to me, and seems to lack any real conviction.

  134. Posted November 20, 2014 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    One of my attractions to Christianity is it seems to be the only religion where God comes down to us from the mountain. Now that’s love.

    Love? What love? Jesus agreed with Yahweh and declared that he would torment anyone who didn’t appreciate his “love” with eternal agony in the Lake of Fire.

  135. Daniel
    Posted November 20, 2014 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    No human actually knows what happens after death. One reason I choose Christianity is because it promises eternal life after physical death for those who believe Jesus was the Messiah. Please see John 3:16. My personal path in seeking a relationship with a higher power (Christianity) brings me peace. If I am wrong then oh well – it’s still a good way to live for me. To quote John Denver’s music, “I listened to what the Good Book said and it made good sense to me…” (Gospel Changes, written by Jack Williams)

    Read more: John Denver – Gospel Changes Lyrics | MetroLyrics

  136. Posted November 20, 2014 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    No human actually knows what happens after death. One reason I choose Christianity is because it promises eternal life after physical death for those who believe Jesus was the Messiah. Please see John 3:16. My personal path in seeking a relationship with a higher power (Christianity) brings me peace. If I am wrong then oh well – it’s still a good way to live for me. To quote John Denver’s music, “I listened to what the Good Book said and it made good sense to me…” (Gospel Changes, written by Jack Williams)

    Different versions of Christianity promise you eternal torment for not following their version. And Islam promises you eternal torment for rejecting Muhammad. How then can your logic be valid?

    Your statement “If I am wrong, then oh well” seems to indicate a complete disregard for truth. That strikes me as very strange, especially in light of the central teaching of Christianity that Christ is the truth.

    It seems to me that the most likely reason the Bible “makes sense to you” is because you have not seriously thought about what it actually teaches. Please take no offense. The reason I say this is because your answers have nothing to do with the idea that the Bible is actually true and that a serious seeker could hope to establish that truth. You are presenting your entire religion as nothing but an arbitrary choice based on the fact it makes you feel good. I don’t think that is rational.

  137. Daniel
    Posted November 20, 2014 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    I’ve been studying the Old and New Testaments
    for 10 years now. What specifically do you
    think I haven’t given serious thought
    to about what they actually teach?
    I did not take offense to yourcomment.

  138. Posted November 20, 2014 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    I’ve been studying the Old and New Testaments
    for 10 years now. What specifically do you
    think I haven’t given serious thought
    to about what they actually teach?
    I did not take offense to yourcomment.

    As mentioned in my last comment, the reason I said that “is because your answers have nothing to do with the idea that the Bible is actually true and that a serious seeker could hope to establish that truth. You are presenting your entire religion as nothing but an arbitrary choice based on the fact it makes you feel good. I don’t think that is rational.”

    That’s the impression I’ve gotten from your comments.

  139. Daniel
    Posted November 20, 2014 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    Maybe truth is relative. Christianity
    is my way of viewing the world. Obviously
    Muslims for example don’t
    view the world as I do. I respect
    everyone’s view of the world whether
    that involves a belief in a higher power
    or not. I also think people shouldrespect
    others’ beliefs as long as those beliefs don’t
    cause harm to others -Do unto others
    e.g. (Golden Rule) Accepting others’beliefs
    is probably a good first step
    for peace in the world.

  140. Posted November 20, 2014 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Truth that is “relative” is mere opinion, not truth.

    I have no idea what it could mean to say that Christianity is nothing but “your way of viewing the world.” Christianity is based on assertions about the way reality really is, not merely how it is viewed by someone.

    The Golden Rule is not about “accepting” beliefs held by others. It is about how others should be treated and what makes an action right or wrong. If I held a false belief and you knew it was false, I would want you to tell me the truth, not “accept my false belief.” That’s the Golden Rule.

  141. Daniel
    Posted November 20, 2014 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Maybe I should have used the word “respecting” instead of “accepting” others’ beliefs and yes I understand what the Golden Rule is… Do unto others etc… The Gods Must Be Crazy – you gotta watch this movie – it shows a scene I remember about differing perceptions from two different people of the same occurrence. That’s what I meant by truth being relative.

  142. Posted November 20, 2014 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    I remember enjoying that movie when I was in college 30 years ago. Thanks for reminding me of it. Looks like a good time to watch it again.

    I think it is important to respect people, but I have no reason to a respect a false or wrong belief just because someone believes it. For example, many men have the belief that women are inferior. Should I respect that belief? Muslim extremists think that all infidels should be killed. Should I respect that belief?

  143. Posted November 21, 2014 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    If you are looking for hidden symbolism in the Bible, I can recommend “Heavenly Arcana” by Emanuel Swedenborg, otherwise known as “Arcana Coelestia.” He practically covers the hidden symbolism of every word in the Bible.

    I hate to see someone on the search give up, although it was good to self-question. What you were looking for is very hard to find.

  144. Posted November 21, 2014 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    If you are looking for hidden symbolism in the Bible, I can recommend “Heavenly Arcana” by Emanuel Swedenborg, otherwise known as “Arcana Coelestia.” He practically covers the hidden symbolism of every word in the Bible.

    I hate to see someone on the search give up, although it was good to self-question. What you were looking for is very hard to find.

    I’ve read a little of Swedenborg but was never impressed. It seems nothing but the invention of his imagination. Is there anything he wrote that should make me think he really had conversations with angels? If you believe, you must have some reasons. What are they?

  145. jonathan
    Posted November 22, 2014 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Shalom (376) 3x7x6=126 = 1-26(yahweh) = One god
    just came up with that one now 🙂

    I really love the site, and as a Jew I believe firmly that God created the world in hebrew and there is gematriah value in everything. I am still young and learning, haven’t gone through your whole site yet, or even this whole article, but I’m really fascinated and think you should speak to a Rabbi, particularly one that studies kabbalah.

    I have a friend living in the holy city of tzfat in israel, who has this page http://www.kabbalahart.com/
    you should check out his stuff, maybe get in touch with him. You’ve done a lot of good work!

    Jonathan

  146. Posted November 23, 2014 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Shalom (376) 3x7x6=126 = 1-26(yahweh) = One god
    just came up with that one now 🙂

    I really love the site, and as a Jew I believe firmly that God created the world in hebrew and there is gematriah value in everything. I am still young and learning, haven’t gone through your whole site yet, or even this whole article, but I’m really fascinated and think you should speak to a Rabbi, particularly one that studies kabbalah.

    I have a friend living in the holy city of tzfat in israel, who has this page http://www.kabbalahart.com/
    you should check out his stuff, maybe get in touch with him. You’ve done a lot of good work!

    Hey there Jonathan,

    I can understand how you could believe that “God created the world in hebrew and there is gematriah value in everything.” I held that view for many years. But now it looks like nothing but an illusion created by cherry picking, selection bias, and confirmation bias. The fact that you could invent a “connection” between the value of shalom (376) and the value of the Yahweh (26) is an example of how such connections are meaningless random coincidences. If you were a Muslim fixated on the Number 19 (which they believe Allah used to design the Qur’an) you could have simply factored 376 = 8 x 47 and added the digits 8 + 4 + 7 = 19. Numerology is folly.

    The art your friend makes is very nice. But it doesn’t prove anything except that humans are pattern seeking animals.

    All the best,

    Richard

  147. Daniel
    Posted November 23, 2014 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    Richard, if for example you were a Christian, in your opinion how do you think Jesus would get back to earth again? Something similar to his first birth? Just curious as to some of your thoughts.

  148. Posted November 23, 2014 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    Richard, if for example you were a Christian, in your opinion how do you think Jesus would get back to earth again? Something similar to his first birth? Just curious as to some of your thoughts.

    Well that’s pretty difficult to say. It all depends upon what other presuppositions you begin with. There are as many answers as there are versions of Christianity which number in the thousands.

  149. Daniel
    Posted November 25, 2014 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Richard, you’re a math guy… what are some of your thoughts about the number pi?

  150. Antony
    Posted November 28, 2014 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    You are blinded by the darkness once again. I can prove to you your 528 is the key to everything you ever wanted to know and beyond. I am 273. If we can combine and share our knowledge with each other; I have knowledge that goes even beyond the bible wheel. Let me enlighten you.

  151. Posted November 28, 2014 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Good morning Antony,

    I would be happy to be “enlightened” by you. What is your basic thesis? I see that you identify yourself as “273” which is the Greek value of “the key.”

    It would be best if we had this discussion on my forum since since that software is designed for extended conversations and we could start a thread devoted to your thesis. Will this work for you? Registration is quick and easy:

    http://www.biblewheel.com/forum

  152. Posted November 30, 2014 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Richard, have you seen the website of Angels.net. I tend to think that the ignorance of angels and their connections with men/women might be the gap in our reasoning.

  153. Posted December 1, 2014 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Richard, have you seen the website of Angels.net. I tend to think that the ignorance of angels and their connections with men/women might be the gap in our reasoning.

    Hi Baruch,

    Thanks for the link. I had not seen that site before. Of course, I have been aware of Theomatics for many years. Are you involved with the site or simply suggesting I read it?

  154. Stephen X-Believer
    Posted December 1, 2014 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Richard:

    Thanks for the new and improved “Biblewheel” website. So much better than the old one!!!
    Your courage in leaving Christianity in spite of all the so called “evidence” of the Biblewheel design ultimately gave me the courage to leave this disgusting and sick institution of slavery also. For that you have my gratitude.

    I was an agnostic for many years while still a believer before finally coming to the conclusion that God did not exist. Or if the Bible “God” did exist he sure wasn’t a being I would want to spend eternity with let alone be part of his Kingdom!

    As a man I could not accept any “God” who would have so many biases against women i.e. fully half the human race. The Bible is full of male biases from start to finish that is a simple fact to anyone who will take the time to CRITICALLY read the text. The suffering women have had to go through these past 2,000 + years can’t even begin to be calculated based on Biblical ideas and passages such as man (males) being made in the image and Glory of God but women are made in the image of man.

    Or the Kingdom of God being in this hierarchical order: 1. God the Father 2. Jesus Christ the Son. 3. Men 4. Women. You want to talk about a pyramid scam well this has got to be the ultimate one!

    A researcher can find all the patterns with Hebrew and Greek Gematria they want to but the facts still remain that “Yahweh” has to be the meanest and cruelest “God” ever invented by man. I freely admit that I was dazzled too by the designs and shapes created by using Gematria as so called ‘proofs” of divine origin,but when you start using different spellings of words you can have many more numerical possibilities to work with until you find numbers that give you the desired results. So Hebrew and Greek Gematria proves absolutely nothing of divine origins. It may prove there are deluded but clever humans but not proof of God or the Bible.

    And as far as this Jesus character why did he not speak up and tell people that women were equal in his Father’s eyes. Yet he was silent about the numerous Torah passages that clearly are biased against women. His silence indicates that he agreed with the Torah as far as women go. And what of telling people to hate their Father and Mother (and themselves) so they can join him? Practicing that one is going to really give you a great psychological profile isn’t it.

    I sure do not want anyone to be my “Savior” when they have these kind of sick ideas and lack of morality and integrity. I can’t trust anyone who is silent about the abusive nature of his “Father” towards fully half the human race. Actually more than half the human race when you consider how many innocent babies and children were killed in the flood and all the military genocidal slaughters at his behest!!!

    As the author Tom Robbins put it so well, “Religion isn’t the opiate of the masses it’s the cyanide!!!

    Keep up the great thoughts and website!

  155. Posted December 1, 2014 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for the new and improved “Biblewheel” website. So much better than the old one!!!
    Your courage in leaving Christianity in spite of all the so called “evidence” of the Biblewheel design ultimately gave me the courage to leave this disgusting and sick institution of slavery also. For that you have my gratitude.

    Hey there Stephen,

    Thanks for the awesome words. It’s very encouraging to know that you found my work helpful. And it’s especially satisfying to see that I am “undoing” some of the damage I did by encouraging folks to believe the Bible.

    It was a very strange experience to realize that the Bible was false while thinking the evidence for the Bible Wheel still stood. But it didn’t really require any “courage” since I didn’t experience any fear. When I was young, I would often have pangs of fear that the Bible was true because I didn’t really know what it said. But those fears evaporated after years of discussing the confused morass of conflicting Christianities with every variety of believer on my forum. I now know what the book says, and there’s no way it could be true – it isn’t even coherent (which is why no two believers can fully agree about what it says)!

    I was an agnostic for many years while still a believer before finally coming to the conclusion that God did not exist. Or if the Bible “God” did exist he sure wasn’t a being I would want to spend eternity with let alone be part of his Kingdom!

    I can’t imagine how anyone would want to live forever with either the bible god or the bible believers. The whole thing is totally messed up.

    I was “agnostic” about the biblegod when I was ignorant of what the Bible said. But now, after two decades of intense Bible study and debate with other believers, I know what it says and know it cannot be true. I’m still agnostic about the possible existence of a god I know nothing about, since it is logically impossible to know that such a god doesn’t exist, but I am not agnostic about Yahweh. I can confidently conclude that he does not exist.

    As a man I could not accept any “God” who would have so many biases against women i.e. fully half the human race. The Bible is full of male biases from start to finish that is a simple fact to anyone who will take the time to CRITICALLY read the text. The suffering women have had to go through these past 2,000 + years can’t even begin to be calculated based on Biblical ideas and passages such as man (males) being made in the image and Glory of God but women are made in the image of man.

    Or the Kingdom of God being in this hierarchical order: 1. God the Father 2. Jesus Christ the Son. 3. Men 4. Women. You want to talk about a pyramid scam well this has got to be the ultimate one!

    I am of the same mind. Have you read my article The Inextricable Sexism of the Bible? I said it was “inextricable” because that sexist hierarchy is an essential defining aspect of the Godhead!

    Sexism was the main reason my wife Rose rejected the Bible. It’s just so obvious that the book was written by primitive men.

    A researcher can find all the patterns with Hebrew and Greek Gematria they want to but the facts still remain that “Yahweh” has to be the meanest and cruelest “God” ever invented by man. I freely admit that I was dazzled too by the designs and shapes created by using Gematria as so called ‘proofs” of divine origin,but when you start using different spellings of words you can have many more numerical possibilities to work with until you find numbers that give you the desired results. So Hebrew and Greek Gematria proves absolutely nothing of divine origins. It may prove there are deluded but clever humans but not proof of God or the Bible.

    Numerology can create a very powerful illusion of design. The key is to select the words and numbers that “fit” and ignore everything else. It’s a textbook example of “selection bias” (aka cherry picking). And there’s something about the nature of numbers and mathematics that gives the sense of “certainty” and that’s the one thing a believer wants more than anything else.

    When I was lost in the numerology delusion, I had lots of patterns based on the “divine name” Yahweh. It was very strange to review my old writings after I had concluded that Yahweh was indeed a moral monster. The numbers sort of lost their luster! LOL

    And as far as this Jesus character why did he not speak up and tell people that women were equal in his Father’s eyes. Yet he was silent about the numerous Torah passages that clearly are biased against women. His silence indicates that he agreed with the Torah as far as women go. And what of telling people to hate their Father and Mother (and themselves) so they can join him? Practicing that one is going to really give you a great psychological profile isn’t it.

    Not only that – he explicitly endorsed all the sexism of the Torah when he said “not one jot or title shall pass” and told everyone to follow ALL the commandments in it.

    I sure do not want anyone to be my “Savior” when they have these kind of sick ideas and lack of morality and integrity. I can’t trust anyone who is silent about the abusive nature of his “Father” towards fully half the human race. Actually more than half the human race when you consider how many innocent babies and children were killed in the flood and all the military genocidal slaughters at his behest!!!

    Couldn’t agree more. One of the most revealing examples is 2 Samuel 12:11 when Yahweh gave Saul’s wives to David, then took them from David and gave them to his son to be raped on the rooftop. It was a classic example of sexually abusing the female PROPERTY owned by your enemy as a way of humiliating him.

    As the author Tom Robbins put it so well, “Religion isn’t the opiate of the masses it’s the cyanide!!!

    Keep up the great thoughts and website!

    Thanks for the encouragement! Don’t be a stranger.

    Richard

  156. Posted December 2, 2014 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for the link. I had not seen that site before. Of course, I have been aware of Theomatics for many years. Are you involved with the site or simply suggesting I read it?

    Richard, thanks for replying me. To answer your question, I am not involved with the site. However, I did get some insights from reading the website. For this reason I suggest that you read it also. I think for so many years in the so-called “Christian” circle, the topic of angels has been a forbidden and missing link.

    When I started to share some of the things I learned from that website, I was shocked that I encountered fierce rejection from so many “Christians”. Now I know why. It is strange that those who thought they have found are lost, those who have lost found.

  157. Posted December 9, 2014 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    DUMBO = 122 in Hebrew-English Gematria

    528 – 406 (Tau) = 122.

    There is obviously a correlation, and I am just wondering how you can debunk certain practices and knowledge while still using those practices and showing that they do indeed work.

  158. Posted December 9, 2014 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    DUMBO = 122 in Hebrew-English Gematria

    528 – 406 (Tau) = 122.

    There is obviously a correlation, and I am just wondering how you can debunk certain practices and knowledge while still using those practices and showing that they do indeed work.

    I am not “still using those practices” and I do not believe that they “work.” I think numerology is folly just like the Bible Wheel. Things like that are the product of cognitive biases like selection bias, cherry picking, confirmation bias, and so forth.

    What you call an “obvious correlation” I see as a random coincidence. Such coincidences are found whenever letters are assigned numerical values. For example, with “simple English gematria” the names Jesus, Lucifer, and Muhammad all share the same value of 74. Is that an “obvious correlation”? If so, what is it supposed to mean? And most importantly, how is anyone supposed to discern between meaningless random coincidences and “meaningful correlations”?

  159. Posted December 13, 2014 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Wesley,

    I have replied to your arguments in a new post called Is there Evidence for God? Conversations with Wesley Steinbrink. Let’s continue the conversation there.

    Richard

  160. Posted December 14, 2014 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Dear Richard!
    Thank you very much for all your work and time!
    I enjoy since some years your database to look up
    correspondencies when I got a number through a
    kabbalistic oracle.
    I enjoy a lot looking for and finding patterns.
    I believe there is a connection between live and consciousness,
    even an identiy.
    1.000.000.000.000 errors had to happen before life could develop on earth,
    1.000.000.000.000 errors had to happen before consciousness could develop on earth,
    If we want to look at it this way.
    1000 seeds fall on stones, 1 on soil, becoming a flower.
    We see the flower.
    Thus, life itself came out of cherry picking out of everything.
    And consciousness came out of cherry picking out of everything.
    And thus GOD is the master of cherry picking.
    And therefore, from that poit of view I am communicating with GOD
    when I do cherry picking.
    If you count the latin Alphabet from 1 to 800 like the Greek,
    than DUMBO is 406, thus TV, The Universe 🙂
    I enjoyed a lot reading your debunking-myself article,
    thank you! 🙂
    Best regards from Berlin,
    Claas

  161. Stephen X-believer
    Posted December 18, 2014 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    Richard:

    Yes I have read over Rose’s article on Sexism. In fact I read it over before I emailed you last time. Everybody visiting this site should definitely read her article!!! St. Paul is real piece of work and Jesus is no better because he did not defend women by specifically refuting the Sexism in the Torah. As you point out so well just the opposite by saying that nothing in the Torah would pass away. He sure doesn’t deserve to be anybody’s Savior given this fact alone.

    For the life of me I don’t know how any self respecting woman (or man) could put up with or tolerate the B.S.of Christianity or Judaism. But evidently from your blogs the “fruits” of these religions is pretty evident given the vitriol and hatred. It is a very dangerous thing to try and take away a pacifier and a rattle from a child!

    As Skip Porteus would say “Jesus doesn’t live here anymore”!!!

    Stephen

  162. Posted December 19, 2014 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    another way of looking at your Bible Wheel is,
    that you are an artist and you created a complex, beautiful
    piece of modern art.

    Hey there Claus,

    I’ve had a similar thought. I think it’s probably the best spin that could be put on it. Things would have been very different if that’s how I saw it when I was a believer.

    Thanks.

  163. Stephen X-believer
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Richard:

    Speaking of “cherry picking” I prefer to commune with ‘God’ by eating a delicious hot piece of cherry pie with ice cream on it. At least there cherry picking it put to good use vs endless speculations of consciousness and life. You want big astronomical numbers well here is a simple case where you can easily generate one. For example you take a snapshot of a packed Rose Bowl stadium. There are 104,000 people in it. The odds of that one seating pattern alone are 1 in 1 * 2 * 3 … * 103,999 * 104,000. Does this prove the existence of God — well NO! You can generate astronomical odds with events in everyday life if you want to.

    And this ‘consciousness’ thing what in the world is that??? Lets grow up and put away the efforts of trying to figure life out and get busy trying to improve life here on Earth because that is the only life we have. To wait for “Jesus” or UFO’s with “Space Brothers” or some other Messiah figure to bail our butts out of our screw ups is a waste of time and effort. No one is going to bail us out of anything. In this case Science along with Secular Humanism is probably our best bet.

    Science has done more to alleviate human sufferings here on Earth than Christianity has in 2,000 years. And championing Humanism with equality of both sexes (vs the horrible sexism of the Bible) would certainly increase morality and integrity NOT decrease it as believers claim.

    Speaking of science why didn’t the Father, Jesus or the Holy Spirit inform the Catholic Church that Galileo and Copernicus were right about the Earth orbiting the Sun rather than the Ptolemaic Geocentric viewpoint???

    Stephen X-believer

  164. Posted December 19, 2014 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    For example you take a snapshot of a packed Rose Bowl stadium. There are 104,000 people in it. The odds of that one seating pattern alone are 1 in 1 * 2 * 3 … * 103,999 * 104,000. Does this prove the existence of God — well NO! You can generate astronomical odds with events in everyday life if you want to.

    Hey there Stephen,

    You got it. The essential error of those kinds of statistical “proofs” is that they are “after the fact.” The statistical probability of any event, such as the exact placement of pebbles on my driveway, is essentially zero. People fool themselves by cherry picking coincidences from a large data set and THEN asking “what are the chances of that?”. The only way to test for design is to begin with an hypothesis and THEN looking at the data to see if it fits.

    And this ‘consciousness’ thing what in the world is that??? Lets grow up and put away the efforts of trying to figure life out and get busy trying to improve life here on Earth because that is the only life we have.

    Consciousness is a fascinating mystery. No one seems to have any idea of what “it” might be, if anything. It probably is not a “thing” at all, but rather a process of the brain. I’ve spent a lot of time wondering about it and have come to conclude that the Buddhists are probably correct – there is no “I” that exists as an entity. The “I” disappears when the brain quits talking to itself. The “I” seems like the void in the center of a self-referential loop created by the narrator in the brain.

    To wait for “Jesus” or UFO’s with “Space Brothers” or some other Messiah figure to bail our butts out of our screw ups is a waste of time and effort. No one is going to bail us out of anything. In this case Science along with Secular Humanism is probably our best bet.

    Waiting for God/Jesus is total folly. It has caused a lot of disappointment, wasted lives, pain, and even death. I talk about this in my article Is God Trustworthy? The Root of Religious Delusion.

    Sciences is a proven path to knowledge. It is not the only source of knowledge (since we know things that cannot be proven with science) but it certainly is the most fruitful path ever devised. And our own humanity is the root of all goodness in us which tends to be corrupted by dogmatic religions, so Secular Humanism is clearly the best path.

    Science has done more to alleviate human sufferings here on Earth than Christianity has in 2,000 years. And championing Humanism with equality of both sexes (vs the horrible sexism of the Bible) would certainly increase morality and integrity NOT decrease it as believers claim.

    There is great irony in the fact that scientists have saved millions of lives that God was happy to let die miserable deaths, even as they begged him to save them. Every person saved by antibiotics is a testimony to truth that we are on our own. Throughout all history, God would have let all those people die.

    Richard

  165. Posted December 22, 2014 at 5:07 am | Permalink

    Thank you for sharing your journey. Thank you for writing the Bible Wheel. I have been a Christian for all my life, with ups and downs and much learning. I am now 71 yrs. Learning about life will continue until you come to a greater understanding that what you intellectually know about God is incomplete, and debunking the incomplete understanding is part of your journey and eventual coming to your Father. In my journey I have now come to the intellectual understanding that about everything I learned from the Christian Church is not Biblical, but the corrupt teaching of the Church fathers. Of course, my Christian friends worry about me and my brother Phil, (a church Pastor) doesn’t understand what I am talking about because he can only believe what the doctrines of his church allow. I have your original book, The Bible Wheel and love it. Yes, the Bible and Church doctrine are dissimilar. In short and in summary, for now, God is greater than our understanding of him, and “truth” is not to be understood by man. Further,God has designed his revelation so that there are difficult contridictions for our human understanding to wrestle with. Remember, Jesus did not answer the question, “What is truth” Blessings on your journey to finding God, as according to the Bible you will most certainly come to Him. Also,find humility as that is the final stage of maturity and is necessary to finding God. You will never be satisfied with an intellectual framework of understanding our existence as the creature can never understand his creation. I wish you the best journey. Have peace with your Father, Fred

  166. Mark Cox
    Posted December 30, 2014 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    A Word. The author of this work was obviously visited by the Ruach Elohim. Invited to the Wedding Feast. He has decided not to wear the wedding garment to the feast. That is his decision. A Word. See for yourself, ask for yourself. Do not look to man of broken faith. Look in your heart. In death, there is only you & the Judge. Will that Judge be a Lamb? or a Lion? Your choice. YHWH abides; unfettered by the reasoning of men & psychedelic fools.

  167. Posted January 3, 2015 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    Well, I’m quite happy to be moving closer each day to Christ, not away. There is a lot of obfuscation and self agrandizibg and over thinking on these posts, too much to address even, but may Christ the Lord, make Himself (not it, not her, not an idea, but the very person of Christ Himself) reveal Himself to those here. I haven’t read a single word here that “disproves” the Bible either. Thanks for letting me share.

  168. Gnade
    Posted January 4, 2015 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    Greetings Joshua!

    The holy Bible is God-breathed!

    In 2 Timothy 3:16, we read that, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.”

    Also in 2 Peter 1:21 we are told that “prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”

    The truths of holy Scripture come directly from God, not from the will of the writers He used to record them.

  169. Bartholomew Harner
    Posted January 7, 2015 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Rich,

    I really like your work. All of it, if for no other reason than it shows that you are a thinking person. I Did not read your book but, I think I get the gist of your meaning enough to know that the exercise itself was of benefit even if it was all a fallacy.

    I do believe in God. In fact, I believe in the God of Abraham. There is no reason for this (probably because I was raised in rural southeast Missouri) other than I just do. I haven’t read much of the Bible because the events of my life have always proven prayer to be more beneficial. I came to my relationship with God at an early age and have been pleasantly satisfied for all my life. It hasn’t all been roses and rainbows but, the good times would’t mean much without the contrast. Prayer, to me, has always been the firmament in the waters of the chaos of life :).

    So, that’s my testament. Having said that all for no particular reason, I do have a question. What are your thoughts about the infinite as it applies to “existence”. It’s a simple question but a never ending debate so, I’ll understand if you don’t want to get into it 🙂 . I only ask because, I am at a place in my life where I am surrounded by people that don’t particularly care about things I think about. I like them all just the same but, there is just no one that wants to talk about things like this.

    Respectfully
    ~Bart

  170. Bartholomew Harner
    Posted January 8, 2015 at 3:05 am | Permalink

    I guess my comments were off topic for this forum. Sorry for cluttering up your site. 🙂

  171. Posted January 10, 2015 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Rich,

    I really like your work. All of it, if for no other reason than it shows that you are a thinking person. I Did not read your book but, I think I get the gist of your meaning enough to know that the exercise itself was of benefit even if it was all a fallacy.

    Hey there Bart,

    Thanks for the good words. Yes, there was some benefit in the “exercise” though I think that was outweighed by detriments like wasted time and delusional thinking. I certainly would not have chosen that path if I had known where it would lead. But we don’t have the luxury of changing our past and there’s no way to know what good will come from it (like insight that may help free others from similar delusions) so I am satisfied to let it be.

    I do believe in God. In fact, I believe in the God of Abraham. There is no reason for this (probably because I was raised in rural southeast Missouri) other than I just do. I haven’t read much of the Bible because the events of my life have always proven prayer to be more beneficial. I came to my relationship with God at an early age and have been pleasantly satisfied for all my life. It hasn’t all been roses and rainbows but, the good times would’t mean much without the contrast. Prayer, to me, has always been the firmament in the waters of the chaos of life :).

    Having a belief in some sort of “God” is a very comforting thing for most people, but that comfort quickly fades when the belief is critically examined in light of logic and facts. It is fundamentally irrational (in a most literal sense) in that there really are no good reasons for it (as you admitted). I don’t see how anyone could find authentic comfort by in believing fairy tales.

    So, that’s my testament. Having said that all for no particular reason, I do have a question. What are your thoughts about the infinite as it applies to “existence”. It’s a simple question but a never ending debate so, I’ll understand if you don’t want to get into it 🙂 . I only ask because, I am at a place in my life where I am surrounded by people that don’t particularly care about things I think about. I like them all just the same but, there is just no one that wants to talk about things like this.

    I would be delighted to discuss it with you, but this particular thread is not the best place. I would invite you to join my forum where you can start your own threads.

    http://www.biblewheel.com/forum

    Great chatting!

    Richard

  172. Bartholomew Harner
    Posted January 10, 2015 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Rich,

    Agreed, there is not much (if any) place for God in logic. I am a firm believer in logic too. However, life isn’t all about logic and I personally do not have an issue reconciling both. Really, does it matter that my personal faith won’t ever hold up to the scrutiny of logic? Not really, I would never push it on anyone else anyway. It’s personal and it’s my choice to share it. I mean if asked I might but it would never be the same for anyone else anyway.
    I will say this about it though. In my view, God wouldn’t be too awe inspiring if I could fully understand it or, “know the mind of God”, so to speak.
    To address some of your words above: “though I think that was outweighed by detriments like wasted time and delusional thinking. I certainly would not have chosen that path if I had known where it would lead. But we don’t have the luxury of changing our past and there’s no way to know what good will come from it” I think you might be a little jaded by the whole thing. LOL! I know I would be! A decade is quite a while… relativly. However, your critical thinking skills increased exponentially I think. There might be more benifit than you give credit for in the “exercise”. As far as your choices go; not only can’t we change the past, we can’t see the future so, there isn’t anything to regret if you think about it “logically” : ) .
    You also said “It is fundamentally irrational (in a most literal sense) in that there really are no good reasons for it (as you admitted). I don’t see how anyone could find authentic comfort by in believing fairy tales”. I did say that! But, what I was refering to was the form in which I consider God. I don’t really thing that God “guy in the sky” but, that is the image that com to mind. That is a relic from my childhood. In any event, if I didn’t feel benifit from it, why in the world would I pray? That would be irrational. Hahaha.
    Anyway, it’s been a pleasure. Ixm going to go join your forum now.

    Peace,
    Bart

  173. Bartholomew Harner
    Posted January 10, 2015 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    I apologize for the jumble I just posted. I posted it from my phone.
    Not the most nimble tool for this medium. Hope you got the gist of it.

    Bart

  174. Posted January 27, 2015 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Richard,

    I am one of what must be a “great throng that [almost] cannot be numbered,” of folk who have referred to your site over the years without commenting. I watched it when it first went up and discussion got going, I watched in amazement (and admiration) when you distanced yourself from Christianity but stood by your work. Today I needed to check a Hebrew root and came here, saw your “caveat lector” message, and here I am, duly impressed again; and this time I gotta say something. As a “believer,” of sorts (pretty garden-variety on the outside), I am of course interested in the Bible, but I never bought in to the supernatural architecture you saw, and was especially suspicious of the way it depended upon the LXX. However, I profited immensely from your databases and meticulous cross-referenced tools. (I am interested in, among other things, gematria and the way spiritual traditions [may have] layered meanings into texts. I am also very attuned to the risks of self-confirming hypotheses — not that I don’t fall prey). Because of my interests I would of course be very sorry if your website went away in the wake of your self-critique. But having said that, I want to commend your bravery and honesty at every step of the way. It takes commitment and gumption and a very game attitude to say Yes and keep jumping in after that fan in the lions’ den, each time your whole axiom-set changes the plan. Sounds like you are indeed on one helluva trip (ain’t we all?) and my guess is it’s not over yet. Just wanted to tip my hat, from over the other side of the Cascades.

  175. Frater Polyclef
    Posted January 27, 2015 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    “Do What Thou Wouldn’t Shall Be The Hole In The Flaw”
    >>>>>>>>>>
    “There Is No Flaw Beyond Doing What Thou Wouldn’t”
    **********************
    I Love a Person Who Can Debunk His Own Work
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VERY GOOD SITE
    I love it
    >>>>>>>>>>> (makes me want to reread “The Book of Lies” by crowley)

    ATTENTION IS DIRECTED TO Veritas by Henry Melville
    ISBN-10: 116256282X
    ISBN-13: 978-1162562827

    It may have what you need …………..Take Care ! ! !

  176. UpHereInMyTree
    Posted January 30, 2015 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    So am I seeing circles , patterns or a “wheel” with this English gematria?

    (Twenty two divided by seven) equals 314 with no decimal . But if I want to make a point I can 3.14.

    A1 B2 C3———Z26

    I know, this is probably ridiculous and totally coincidental.

    Thanks for keeping up the site. I still believe there are reasons for everything.

    Peace

  177. Tom
    Posted February 2, 2015 at 3:59 am | Permalink

    Richard, you never knew Him. You may have had some knowledge of the Bible, but you do not know, and never knew, the One of whom it speaks. In your current condition, you’re a pawn of Satan spreading apostasy. Hell is a certainty for you if you don’t repent and seek His face. Praying for you.

  178. Posted February 2, 2015 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    Richard, you never knew Him. You may have had some knowledge of the Bible, but you do not know, and never knew, the One of whom it speaks. In your current condition, you’re a pawn of Satan spreading apostasy. Hell is a certainty for you if you don’t repent and seek His face. Praying for you.

    Tom,

    When I was a believer I would have said I knew him just like you. How do you know that you are not deluded like I was then? The world is filled with people totally convinced by their religious delusions. What evidence do you have that you are right and everyone who disagrees is wrong? Absolutely none. What difference is there between your beliefs and the beliefs of others who are deluded? Absolutely none.

    And worse, your beliefs are wicked, perverse, and immoral. You believe that God will torment people forever in hell because they reject your religious cult. You believe in a demon-god who has created an eternal evil.

    As for “apostasy” – there is no such thing as such. There is only apostasy from various sects of Christianity. Protestants were condemned as apostates by the Catholics, and the Protestants returned the favor by declaring the Pope to be antichrist! There is no such thing as “Christianity” but rather an incoherent mass of contradictory Christianities. It’s just potsherds clashing with potsherds. There is no reason to believe that any of it is true. The most devout believers cannot even agree amongst themselves.

  179. Tom
    Posted February 2, 2015 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    You and your wife, in your extreme arrogance, think that you can accuse God. In your arrogance you thought you could know His ways (which are as high above our ways as the heavens are from the earth – unsearchable) and when you found you could not – you rebelled. When your prayers were not answered – you rebelled. You think you can sit in judgement of God’s Holy Law – HE is the eternal, great and dreadful judge.. your life is but a vapor. HE determines what is right and wrong, not the relative and meaningless utterances and accusations of men. I don’t care what men have done in God’s name.. He only cares what you do with His Son.. The Son you reject because you put yourself in God’s place. Because you think you can somehow deduce a different reality that you like better. I beg you to wake up, man!!!

    How do I know it isn’t all in my head? I have a testimony. I have experienced supernatural occurrences and seen miracles.. Most of all I have God’s Word. If you think the treasures therein are just the creation of man then you are truly deceived.. but then again the truth can only be discerned SPIRITUALLY. You’re confused and walking in darkness.

    I beg you, give your life to Jesus Christ.. for real this time.

  180. Tom
    Posted February 4, 2015 at 4:25 am | Permalink

    I’m sorry my comments seem rude, but in professing to be wise you have become a fool and your heart is darkened. You’re angry, man. You need to understand the spiritual source of that hatred and anger is demonic.

    Richard, I know a guy who was once under severe demonic oppression brought on by drugs. He used the same words, tone and everything as you. He’s delivered now, praise God. I’m curious, has drug taking had a part in your turn against Christ? I don’t say that to be insulting or anything. I used to take drugs before I got saved. Just wondering if there’s a pattern here. The Grateful dead lyrics, fractals, etc. have me wondering.

    You need faith in the substitutionary death, burial and resurrection of Christ as payment for your sin according to the scriptures. Not on an intellectual level, but in your heart by faith. You need to give yourself to the person of Christ, ask Him into your life as your Savior, to correct your path. Theology – man’s reasoning, making rules, influences – cannot take the place of revelation. Psychology cannot take the place of discernment. Eloquence is not a substitute for supernatural power. Reasoning cannot be a substitute for faith. Law cannot take the place of love. Remember, faith is the substance and the evidence of things hoped for and not seen. Faith.

    God’s ways are above our ways. I do not know why he slays some evildoers and lets others live, or why bad things happen to good people or whatever. I trust God. He sent His son to die for me and you on that cross. Jesus is good enough for me.

    End your hateful and futile rebellion. Accept Jesus’ gift of life and let Him rule your life, man. I am begging you.

  181. Posted February 4, 2015 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    If Richard, Rose and Michael Free shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek the LORD’S face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will He hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin. See 2 Chronicles 7:14

    I would find that more believable if you would turn from your wicked ways. You exalt yourself over all who disagree with your unfounded religious beliefs and declare them to be “wicked.”

  182. Collin
    Posted February 7, 2015 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Read Exodus 3.14-15. It gives God’s name. When I say read it I mean read it out loud and let it sink in.

  183. Collin
    Posted February 7, 2015 at 8:46 am | Permalink
  184. Posted February 7, 2015 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    OK – I read it out loud in both English (KJV) and Hebrew. Now what?

  185. Collin
    Posted February 7, 2015 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    Well, it’s pretty straightforward who God is.

    Check it out, this is Sufi.
    Once we destroy the mountain of the self, and give up intellect for love, we then are allowed to continue to the throne of God.

    And once we come to the end of this journey, where the thousands only become a few, with our hopeless hearts and tattered, trailing wings, we are led to the presence of His throne.

    Yet when we finally set our eyes upon Him, we will be astonished to see not the King of the Universe as we had expected.

    But rather ourselves.

  186. Collin
    Posted February 7, 2015 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    Enlightened Man.

  187. Collin
    Posted February 7, 2015 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    The Bible and all those ancient holy texts talk about the same thing. They are simply tools full of metaphors that, allow us to become Enlightened. Check out Joseph Campbell’s “Power of Myth” and “The Hero’s Journey”.

    And don’t get me wrong, I like to consider myself a Pythagorean so I love me some numbers too. Just keep it all in context, brotha.

    Farewell, brethren.

  188. Collin
    Posted February 7, 2015 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    Look me up on facebook if you’re on there. I’m Collin Atherton, blonde hair guy from Houston, Texas. I’ll add you to a cool group I’m in if interested. We talk about these kinds of things.

    Namaste!

  189. Just B
    Posted February 9, 2015 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Hello McGough,

    Bible real or not. People that believe they are Jesus real or not. I would like to point you out to the “Editions” part on http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Christs_of_Ypsilanti.

    I quote:
    The Three Christs of Ypsilanti was first published
    in 1964. Rokeach came to think that his research
    had been manipulative and unethical, and he
    offered an apology in the afterword of the 1984
    edition of the book: “I really had no right, even
    in the name of science, to play God and interfere round the clock with their daily lives.”[2] The book was re-published by New York Review Books in 2011.

    And then let me breakdown your believes even further with this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dEaecUuEqfc

    And then let me tell you, that everything that exists, is because we believe it. To unbelieve it is much harder than believing that vertical black lines are one color, compared to horizontal black lines with another in the McCoulough effect (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollough_effect), which is just another proof of how we create reality by being conditioned continuosly in this paradoxal world.

    The people of the future are not the people that can read and write, but the people that can learn, unlearn & relearn. — Alvin Toffler.

    Now. Do you desire to discuss if Quantum Mechanics is actually anything real, other than bogus, but well hidden, math, as for Einstein’s E=mc^2? I thought we always used E=1/2mv^2 for calculating energy in any system… Or do we decide to just, rather Be (in Love)? 🙂

    With the Love (of God),
    B

  190. Posted February 11, 2015 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    Hey there Just B,

    You said:

    And then let me tell you, that everything that exists, is because we believe it. To unbelieve it is much harder than believing that vertical black lines are one color, compared to horizontal black lines with another in the McCoulough effect (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollough_effect), which is just another proof of how we create reality by being conditioned continuosly in this paradoxal world.

    I prefer Philip K. Dick’s definition of reality as “that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.” Your suggestion that reality is mere belief makes no sense to me, and I don’t think that is the consequence of Quantum Mechanics (as was very well explained in that video you linked. Thanks!).

    Now. Do you desire to discuss if Quantum Mechanics is actually anything real, other than bogus, but well hidden, math, as for Einstein’s E=mc^2? I thought we always used E=1/2mv^2 for calculating energy in any system… Or do we decide to just, rather Be (in Love)? 🙂

    With the Love (of God),
    B

    I would be delighted to discuss QM. If you want to pursue that, you should register on my forum because that’s where we can create a thread devoted to that topic.

    http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/

    What do you mean when you say that that math is bogus?

    Richard

  191. Posted March 3, 2015 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Hello.
    You gave up too soon on the Math.
    153 Fishes in the boat with Jesus…
    Dr Ivan Panin and the 7 of the Bible…
    Look Right on 113Doctor.com, Click on a topic/link of interest. Enjoy.
    Angels are Ancient Aliens…
    Whatever made man think when he gazed up into the sky, that the planets have always been in the same places?
    Math is Bogus sound close to believing a Lie…
    113Doctor

  192. Shino
    Posted March 3, 2015 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    I’m glad to see you sorted all that.

    I’m also glad you decided to keep the website up (personal thanks for the gematria database that I use once in a while).

    But I think you missed the whole point of Christianity. See this:

    Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. (‭John‬ ‭4‬:‭22‬ KJV)

    Jesus KNEW God. And he opened yet another door for us to see the Lord. Think of how a small vision launched you into a ten years quest. Don’t you think there could be more of them?

    As they say: don’t throw baby with the bath water. And at the same time, it is a very good thing for you to come clean on your beliefs. My opinion is that the use of reason will take you far but not all the way. Don’t be so quick to come back to atheism, as if you had to pick a side. Just have good fun experimenting honestly with your beliefs.

    Again, thank you for all that work !

  193. Posted March 3, 2015 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    Are you asking: “Why does God send anyone to hell? Why doesn’t God simply forgive everyone?” It’s because God is infinitely holy and He cannot forgive sin except on the basis of His own justice being satisfied.

  194. Ernest Adulai
    Posted March 7, 2015 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Do you believe Jesus Christ ever walked the face of the earth?

  195. Posted March 11, 2015 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    “meaningless words”… The math behind those “meaningless words” is well beyond winning a Lotto & yet you seemed to be more like Eve than Adamu 🙁
    The Anti-Christ is a Christian right now as he walks amounts us. After Rev 13:3 He will be a Muslim and worshiped like a god. No more place found for Christians 🙁
    My website is a list that is only augured by those who can not discern, matters of a spiritual nature. The sooner your crisis of faith is over, the sooner you can put down the milk and take up the meat.
    It take a very mature, brave, wise, man of GOD Most High to tread were angels/aliens fear to go.
    113Doctor

  196. Posted March 11, 2015 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    “meaningless words”… The math behind those “meaningless words” is well beyond winning a Lotto

    Ha! Your assertion is absurd. Such lists are as common as dirt. If you disagree, all you need to do is present your statistical analysis and I will admit my error if you can prove it. I won’t be holding my breath.

  197. Posted March 12, 2015 at 10:02 am | Permalink
  198. Posted March 18, 2015 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Now that you have debunked the Bible, is there a God? How did we all get here?

    Hi Fred,

    I don’t know if there is a God, but it doesn’t seem very important since if there is a God he has worked very hard to keep that fact hidden.

    Have you ever played the “God on/God off” game? Clap you hands, there is a God. Clap your hands, there is no God. Did you notice any difference? Me neither.

    Everyone knows how we got here. We were born from our parents. And where did our parents come from? From previous parents. The answer is obviously buried in the mist of history. So how do we find out what happened before there were people writing history? There are many branches of science that can help answer that question. First, you want to learn how the world works now. That’s the focus of Physics and Chemistry, and the Biology of living organisms, Genetics, and so forth. Using what we know of how the world works now, we can extrapolate to the past. The brings us to Archaeology, Paleontology, Geology, Evolution, Astrophysics, and all sorts of fascinating specialized fields of science. If you are looking for answers about reality, science is the source. If you are looking for meaning, you would do well to study psychology, philosophy, poetry, history, metaphysics, and stuff like that.

  199. the one
    Posted March 26, 2015 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    So with all this information you have put together and came to realize you were really tired of the insanity.

    What is your thoughts on people live to tell about the near death experiences they have, concerning God.

    If they lived to tell that how can logic or book proof take that from them.

    Or are they locked into there last thoughts before passing?

  200. the one
    Posted March 26, 2015 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    My friend! The truth is, is that our days are numbered and what happens beyond this life is solely up to the decision you made while you where here. Now for some that judge you based on what you came to grips with takes the power out of the creators hands and makes themselves the Creator being they have given you a death sentence before your time is up.

    IN all love and honesty achi keep studying and searching, apparently you have taken off one outfit to put another on.

    To each it’s own.

  201. David
    Posted March 26, 2015 at 11:35 pm | Permalink

    Wow, a lot of people on this thread have a hard time accepting that they were wrong, or that you no longer support their illusion. They loved it when you supported an illusion, but now that you are pointing out real truth, they hate it because it leaves them back at point one, wondering what life is, with more questions. How convenient it is to have some book or document that answers everything. Then we don’t need faith any more. Thanks for being honest and doing the additional publishing of your results, Mr. McGough. That makes you a true scientist, IMO.

  202. TD
    Posted April 3, 2015 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    Experience is what you have reflected upon to form these opinions. I pray God changes your experience. He changed my experience, in spite of me and I am eternally grateful. He is able to remove the veil that prohibits man from seeing past himself and his finite knowledge. (Man in general, I’m not pointing a finger at you at all!) HE changes our experience. I trust that you are willing to embrace the unknown as well as the known! So many mysteries! So much left to see and experience. Why, because you have embraced the journey and it’s not over!

  203. Gnade
    Posted April 4, 2015 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Richard, study the words of the Son of God and allow Him to guide you home!

  204. Posted April 7, 2015 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    Richard if you are “closed” to acknowledging that the sinless Son of God is Immanuel you have closed your mind to truth.

    Your assertion is ludicrous because you have no evidence supporting it. I’ve explained this to you a million times and you have ignored the truth. So it is you, not I, that is closed to truth. You only believe what your religion tells you to believe, just like a fundamentalist Mormon or Muslim. You have no more evidence for your beliefs than they do. Why should I believe your claims over theirs?

    If you keep repeating that what the Bible teaches is absurd how can the LORD bless you with understanding. God’s word to you is be still and know that He is God.

    I do not merely “repeat” that the Bible contains absurdities. I present the facts that prove my words are true. You never do anything like that. All you do is mindlessly repeat your religious dogmas just like a fundamentalist Muslim or Mormon. You apparently have no concept of how to establish the truth of a claim.

    God’s word to you is be still and know that He is God.

    Really? And how do you know that is God’s word to me? Did he tell you? Can you prove it? Or is it just a feeling that you got? I’d say the latter is most likely. As far as I can tell, you have taken your own imagination and feelings for the “voice of God.” So really, it’s all an ego trip. You think that your feelings and your imagine are God. You have utterly abandoned logic and facts and live in a world of religious delusion. You don’t even try to give a rational answer to the questions I ask.

  205. Posted April 7, 2015 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    Have you concluded that the journey to the only person who can bless man with the gift of salvation is over?

    Gift of salvation? What are you talking about? Your doctrine is that your god created millions of people so he’d have some bloody meat for his eternal human barbeque. I hear he loves the smell of roasted human flesh.

    You expect me to believe something as perverse as that?

  206. Mel
    Posted April 7, 2015 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    I discovered your chat site here while actually looking for something else. As I don’t believe in coincidence (per se), I decided to comment here. How long I continue depends upon your responses. (And I believe to be a fairly patient one.)

    Perhaps it’s a mistake to even try, seeing how adamant you seem against what you once claimed to believe concerning “the truth”, and God. But I’m willing to “appear the fool”…for a short time anyways…for your possible benefit.

    I perceive that “your continuing quest is about due for a change of course”. As for your “wonderful wheel”, I believe there may yet be merit to some of it after all. Perhaps, much of the data you collected over the years may fit…but from a different perspective than “your alphabetic wheel”. (Be that as it may…it’s your baby. But personally, I wouldn’t totally disregard it yet if I were you!)

    I’m rather saddened that you’ve reasoned your way against what you once so admirably professed. Maybe a change in course will rekindle it…who knows? (But I’m not here to judge. I merely look logically at the facts and “call ‘em like I see ‘em”.)

    You said “Science is a proven path to knowledge. It is not the only source of knowledge…but it certainly is the most fruitful path ever devised.” That reminds me of a quote by Einstein (who never truly admitted to believe in a Creator) wherein he admitted perceiving that a correlation indeed exists among the natural and supernatural realms, when he said: “Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind.”

    I would like to whet your appetite once again for finding truth within the Bible (if such a thing is acceptable to you) by appealing to your scientific nature, which I believe you must still enjoy:

    In 1Jn 1:5 it is written that “God is light”. If it’s true that he designed science and physics, one might logically suppose “the creator just might know a little about that subject”. Ya think?

    It might interest you to be able to see how the Bible’s author laid out “the principle of the refraction of light into it’s spectrum of color” in it’s very first chapter…Genesis 1. It’s possible to view the seven days in Gen 1 as a rainbow…which depicts “the light” on the first day…as “it shines down through the scriptures”, having become refracted by the water on the second day (just like after it rains)…to be brief about it.

    Maybe the author was just “showing off” to begin his only book that way…as if to say, “Hey kids…look what I can do with light!” (And, when you parse the entire Bible into it’s most basic element, it ALL seems to be about just that one thing — light.)

    I believe to be the first to discover this “apparent intentional design” not too long ago. (And you’d probably have a difficult time finding much more about this as of yet, since it’s a rather recent new discovery.)

    If you think this interesting, I will spend more time laying it out. And if not, then I haven’t wasted much time in writing thus far, haven’t I? But as they say, “Nothing ventured, nothing gained.”

    (And please be fair with me, for I assure you that this certainly didn’t come by way of a “confirmation bias”, or something like that. It was “accidental” — while I was actually looking for something else…just like what prompted me to comment here in the first place.)

    Peace!

  207. bibelverse
    Posted April 8, 2015 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

    Richard, being spiritually lazy isn’t something to prize!
    Don’t you desire to learn to pray to Your Creator? Don’t you desire to wholeheartedly thank Him?

    Don’t you desire for Him to teach you and your wife Rose and draw you both to His Beloved sinless Son?

  208. Posted April 8, 2015 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    Don’t you desire to learn to pray to Your Creator? Don’t you desire to wholeheartedly thank Him?

    What is wrong with you Gnade? I’ve told you a hundred times that I spent 15 years “wholeheartedly praying to and thanking God.” Why do you ignore my words?

  209. bibelverse
    Posted April 9, 2015 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Heavenly Father, teach us to pray to you. Bless Richard, Rose and Michael with a desire to pray to You. Truly Your house will be a house of prayer, so if we are prayerless we are not yet where we should be.

    Teach us heavenly Father that You are the Teacher of teachers. Teach us not to give up in believing in you.

    Heavenly Father, Your children love You because You have been extraordinary gracious to them. You truly are love and love those who love you. Thank You for creating, sustaining and protecting those who love You.

    Truly the holy Bible is a pure clean book which You can use to bring glory to Your righteous Name.

  210. Posted April 9, 2015 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Truly the holy Bible is a pure clean book which You can use to bring glory to Your righteous Name.

    Numbers 31:17 “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. 18 “But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately.

    1 Samuel 15:2 “Thus says the LORD of hosts: ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 ‘Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”

    Pure clean book my ass.

  211. Mel
    Posted April 10, 2015 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Brother Richard,

    Thank you for your fair treatment of my hypothesis! (You seem to be both a very logical thinker and an extremely well-read individual.)

    You said: “It sounds like your theory is based on the idea that there really are seven colors in the rainbow.” Although my desire to be brief was surely the cause for your rather hasty comment, I assure you there us much more to all of this. In truth, you and I are already aware that (at least) “millions of colors” are the result of the refraction of light. (Even within the RGB system of computer graphics, we can see what man has done in the world with merely those three!)

    Thank you for the link to Wikapedia on rainbows and spectrums, and for the insight concerning Newton’s thinking, etc. (Although I’ve seen this all before during my research, it was a “nice refresher”.)

    I wonder if you and I could begin a “private dialogue” via email concerning this topic. I assure you that I am NOT attempting to proselytize you to any certain faith or creed, but to reveal to you a “most remarkable pattern of 7’s” in the Bible.

    As long as we continue honestly in a “friendly debate”, I’m most confident there will be learning (and perhaps even some excitement) on both sides. Let each of us not be too quick to judge one another before we have first assembled some “mutual and necessary raw data” in order to be able to investigate (and to hob-nob with) this VAST topic of interest together in a logical, and patient fashion.

    My email is melliot2@twcny.rr.com. I’m looking forward to hearing from you very soon. (It would be quite burdensome for me to continue this dialogue on your site here…and some of which I have to share with you is rather confidential.)

    So, here’s hoping that (through our future relationship) we can be to each other as “iron that sharpens iron”.

    Peace, brother!

  212. bibelverse
    Posted April 10, 2015 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Richard, no one can understand the Author of life by just quoting from His holy book, for the LORD must first open our eyes.

    You and Rose are making your usual mistake of assuming that you understand what justice is better than He does. Have you ever made a serious study of the nefarious deeds of Amalek?

    Richard like Rose, you still do not understand that the LORD is far wiser than you are! Every single life that He has decided to take was His decision.

    You still do not believe that He judges righteously. Can you and Rose explain to the world why you desire to write critically about the LORD who has been good to you both your whole lifetime?

  213. Posted April 12, 2015 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Hey there James!

    Congratulations! Your comment merited a thread of its own. I have answered in a new post called Flipping Fundamentalism Off.

    I invite you to continue the conversation there.

    All the best,

    Richard

  214. Posted April 30, 2015 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    I have looked at your site for a long time. Biblical numerology is not delusional, even though you say that there was a bias in your selection of numbers to prove a point.

    I have supernaturally discerned in real life that certain situations are associated with certain numbers – usually car plate numbers. Fortunate happening are associated usually with the number 7 or its power, 49.
    Unfortunate situations are usually associated with 6 or 36, its power, or the number 13. I have been noticing this for years.

    Even though everything you say on your site is not correct, some things may be true. Notice that God uses certain numbers in the Bible and a great part of God’s Revelation is bound up in numbers.

  215. Posted May 1, 2015 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    I have supernaturally discerned in real life that certain situations are associated with certain numbers – usually car plate numbers. Fortunate happening are associated usually with the number 7 or its power, 49.
    Unfortunate situations are usually associated with 6 or 36, its power, or the number 13. I have been noticing this for years.

    Hi Francis,

    What do you think would happen if we actually tested your claims? I mean, what if we had a video recording of your life, and we looked for numbers associated with every “fortunate” and “unfortunate” event? I would be willing to bet ten million dollars that your claims would fail, and the actual relation between numbers and events would be found to be totally random.

    I know how you can feel so convinced, but that’s an illusion caused by confirmation bias and selection bias. You tend to remember the hits and forget the misses. This is very common. It happens to everyone. The scientific method was designed to overcome this problem, and even serious scientists sometimes fool themselves with biases.

    All the best,

    Richard

  216. wodahs
    Posted May 1, 2015 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    Richard,
    I won’t bore you with the long life story about how I got to this thread save clicking on the debunk button on the Wheel site. I’m in business with a ‘bible is literal’ Christian who mentioned her God loves numbers. For no good reason I Googled the gematria. Sufic it to say I spent 20 some odd years in my youth wasting massive amounts of time studying things like the gematria, Golden Dawn, most the worlds philosophies and religions. Now in my old age, I never respond to anything online let alone engage in any kind of metaphysical discussion with anyone offline. I have for the last four hours been reading this thread which in itself is very unusual. You’re just so spot right on with everything your saying. I am sure if we had some protracted conversations on a variety of subjects we could find something to passionately debate. But on this subject, at this juncture from the bottom of my heart I needed to tell you that you ring absolutely clear and true. You write well, your intelligent, your forthright, not unnecessarily forceful when assaulted by blatant stupidity and generally the kind of person the world is a better place because of. I have literally been laughing out load at the absence of anything substantial coming from your distractors. And for that I thank you, well done.

  217. Posted May 1, 2015 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Wow. Thanks for the good word wodahs. It’s very encouraging to know someone appreciates what I do. 🙂

  218. bibelverse
    Posted May 2, 2015 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Richard, if what you wrote in your last comment was true you wouldn’t have spent the last four years telling the world that, in your opinion, the LORD who reveals Himself in the holy Bible is untrustworthy.

    On this matter you are deceived, for the author of life is holy. A wise person would tread very carefully, but you not only drive a tank but delight to shoot at almost everything the LORD has said and done.

    The LORD says to you: Richard, I am your teacher, but that doesn’t slow your driving down. The LORD says to you: I am the holy One who reveals truth, but instead of heeding Him you feed yourself on Rock music, atheistic writers and anyone who has a rebellious attitude to the LORD who loves you far more than anyone else.

    Richard, without the LORD you can do nothing. Without Him empowering you you can’t live a life that brings glory to Him.

    Repent and desire to seek Him with an undivided heart. He is found in the sinless Son of God. Put you trust in Him and let Him teach what true love is! Let Him reveal to you that He is the truth!

  219. Posted May 2, 2015 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    Richard, if what you wrote in your last comment was true you wouldn’t have spent the last four years telling the world that, in your opinion, the LORD who reveals Himself in the holy Bible is untrustworthy.

    I don’t understand what you mean. I don’t believe Yahweh exists. That’s why he can’t be trusted. Something that is only imagined to exist cannot be trusted.

  220. bibelverse
    Posted May 3, 2015 at 1:24 am | Permalink

    Why is Richard teaching now that the LORD doesn’t exist? What has happened to his former testimony, in written form, that was correct?

    Why did he come to the conclusion that the LORD doesn’t answer prayer, when the Son of Man was a man of prayer?

    Did he take drugs and open himself up to demonic deception? Does he continue to listen to rock music that’s anti God?

    Dear readers, do you love the man who taught that He was the truth? Do you acknowledge that He was and is worthy of being called Emmanuel, God with us?

    Do you believe that He cast out demons? Do you believe that He raised His friend Lazarus from the dead? Do you believe He healed lepers and returned sight to the blind?
    Do you love this man who is Your Creator?

  221. Posted May 3, 2015 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    Why is Richard teaching now that the LORD doesn’t exist? What has happened to his former testimony, in written form, that was correct?

    Reine, I explained my reasons about a thousand times in various articles and comments. Why do you ignore what I write? It’s one thing to disagree. That’s fine, we can discuss it. But it’s quite another to pretend you have not been given an answer. Here it is again:

    Why I Quit Christianity

    Why did he come to the conclusion that the LORD doesn’t answer prayer, when the Son of Man was a man of prayer?

    Again, I’ve explained this many times. Answer this article if you want to challenge my conclusion:

    Is God Trustworthy? The Root of Religious Delusion

    Did he take drugs and open himself up to demonic deception? Does he continue to listen to rock music that’s anti God?

    Oh my. The demons and the dreaded rock music got in my head and produced logical arguments based on demonstrable facts that you can’t understand, let alone refute? Is that how you explain things to yourself? Seriously?

  222. Abaddon
    Posted May 8, 2015 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Your words depict your thoughts, or do you claim that your thoughts and words are 2 separate entities?!?
    90% of your dialogue is based on cognitive bias, hence a systematic error of inductive reasoning.

    There is a great difference between theories and factual evidence. Take the Big Bang as an example, which is filled with flaws and erroneous conundrums of creation. I can pick apart ad infinitum the majority of scientific theorems.

    I have been outside the frame of the picture that humans call reality for many years. I can see the larger picture, can you?

  223. gman
    Posted May 9, 2015 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    test

  224. Abaddon
    Posted May 9, 2015 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    I would be very interested to learn about your critique of cosmology. Are you challenging Einstein’s field equations of General Relativity?

    Newton and his laws were the general consensus for 300 years until Einstein developed the ‘Theory of Relativity’ (TOR) in 1905. Nevertheless Einstein’s theory is flawed and modern day experiments show anomalies in TOR. It is also known that Einstein was not the first to invent the famous equation
    E = mc2, which has become synonymous with his name.

    There is experimental formulae that cannot be explained by special relativity, hence the 2 basic axioms of TOR on light’s behavior are shown to be untenable. The theory of universal relativity conforms to the experimental formulae, i.e. A conductor’s movement near a magnet’s pole do not produce the same results which contradicts the relativity theory. The Big Bang theory also has many flaws, which i will delve into later on… In 2009 i wrote a small text that challenges your beloved Einstein and his theories.

    It is a popular trend to make it look like Einstein came up with everything associated with his relativity theories. The Lorentz transformations were developed from the physics of Heaviside, Vogt, Fitzgerald, Lamor, Lorentz and Poincare before Einstein and are considered to be asymmetric in pre-Einstein physics, but, unfortunately, most people don’t know the difference. The Lorentz asymmetry makes the aether a preferred frame of reference. Newton, Huygens and Soldner all theorized that light would bend in a gravitational field long before Einstein published his general theory of relativity. The aether is NOT at absolute rest based on Newtonian Mechanics in spite of the common wrong assumption that it is. You can argue that special relativity is impossible to prove because no instrument can be made absolutely accurate to show that the speed of light is absolutely constant. The Michelson-Morley experiment cannot be proven to be a complete null for the same reason. There are physics experiments that show that gravity is not curved space. If space was curved in a gravitational field, then projectiles moving through a gravitational field would all follow the same path regardless of velocity, but as the experiments show, the faster the object is traveling, the straighter its path. Eric Baird’s aether density gradient theory seems to be a good alternative to the curved space theory of general relativity. Based on this theory, the properties of the aether differ with gravitational potential and is responsible for the bending of a beam of light, gravitational time dilation effect (demonstrated by atomic clocks), and the force of gravity. Einstein wrote his relativity theories before Hubble discovered galaxies and evidence for the big bang. After Einstein, the velocity of the earth relative to the cosmic microwave background radiation has been measured. Some compare this to an aether drift experiment, but if Dayton C. Miller’s experiments are valid, this might show that the cosmic microwave background radiation velocity isn’t based on aether drift, since Miller’s velocity and Smoot’s velocity are in two different directions. This would mean that our big bang universe is moving through the aether and is not at rest relative to the aether as is commonly assumed. Space and aether are both probably infinite and eternal and we live in one of an infinite number of big bang universes in the same three dimensional space. There are experiments to support the Lorentz aether theory. The Lorentz contraction was originally proposed to explain the null result of the Michelson Morley experiment. As you can see there’s a number of experiments that don’t agree with Einstein’s relativity….

  225. Posted May 15, 2015 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    WoW Abadon, that is some knowledge you have… speechless, utterly speechless.

    Me too. I really don’t have sufficient energy or interest to explain errors that he could have corrected himself in a matter of minutes if he were interested in the truth.

  226. Tony Ghazal
    Posted June 12, 2015 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    Hi Richard,
    I have been passionately interested in your work, my soul was very drawn but my spirit has been warned several times by the holy spirit of the deception (idolatry). The holy spirit lead me to the scripture 1 kings 19 v18 ~ ‘Yet I will leave 7000 people alive in Israel – all those who are loyal to me and have not bowed to Baal or kissed his idol’. Your site references the connection of the 7000 with Romans 11 and Revelation 11. I believe it is the remnant (not the 7000 people) i.e. the elect that get saved by grace alone. The bible is true and I bear witness through my personal testimony of healing and deliverance.
    My original training was as a biochemist and later I practiced as a new age therapist ~ acupuncturist.
    I stopped practicing acupuncture following a severe illness and experienced the healing power of Jesus at a John Wimber Evangelical healing conference in Brighton UK (1992).
    Your areas of new age involvement needs repenting so that you can renew your faith in Jesus.
    Yours in Christ Tony Ghazal

  227. Posted June 14, 2015 at 12:24 am | Permalink

    Hey R. A. McGough

    To be honest I don’t understand why you knocking yourself or your great work on the head?

    To me personally you did a great creative job.
    I used a lot from your site as chary picked information.

    Man spirituality & creativity has nothing to do with believing in anything.
    Spirituality does not work like this …. there is no good or bad in Spirituality. At least not for me.

    Nothing should be taken as gospel truth ……. no such thing!
    Truth is one thing …… but it is many things.

    Your work is full of logical conclusions ……. & it is logic which will make people wake up not any believes.
    Not really sure what you really criticizing on your own work?

    Oh …… maybe that not everything in your work is 100%; well that’s OK; because nothing really is!
    Life & creativity to me is infinity.

    Its not what you created in your own way which is maybe of track wrong of false from individuals perspectives.

    Everyone is his own master to filter things.
    We are all individuals but creativity of all sorts & especially logical fitting creativity has high marks on my scale.

    Anyway your work helped me a lot for my own path & I love the number coincidental matching reality.

    Its coincidently though? Or is it by design by those which were creative in the past.
    I say a bit of both.

    Once again I think you did a great creativity job overall & you must had helped others & created jumping stones into all sorts of directions which looked into your general Work.

    I was so Norty to even rename your Bible Wheel stand image in the garden to (5+12+5+22+5+12+5) in letters = EL EVE LE = (The Eve marking). because this is what I ended up with after using your given base data. You will find it in the Web link….
    I only hope you will not remove your site especially not the connection to the numerology site.
    Love the info one it in relation to number meanings. http://www.ridingthebeast.com/numbers/nu111.php

    http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah210/indonesiansystem/general/Theology/EL_EVE_LE.gif

    Once more I loved your creativity & your works was a inspiration to me!

    By the way …….. no one ever nailed any Jesus onto any Cross because its impossible to do so.
    But the Jesus image nailed the World to the Cross & its still going on till today until all truth got revealed to everyone.

    Your are a part of this revealing of truth no matter what others think or saying!

    Regards;
    Mario

  228. Posted June 14, 2015 at 1:48 am | Permalink

    After a bit more reading on your Postings I can see something unique.

    You did not renounced your faith in reality ………. all you did; you freed yourself from the Religious Organization which indoctrinated there following people with the way they interpreted everything either by designed agenda or through mistranslation/interpretation being only Soul minded individuals without there Spirit switched on.

    To me from what I see is; that you only moved to the second stage of being.
    Self inner recognition & recovery from within on an individual base.

    To me …….. No one will be able to read out the truth from scripture or what they calling Bible without there inner Spirit switched on & the philosophical understanding mindset ability being on high alert.

    People should realize that all of scripture was written by highly intelligent philosophers (very Wise & full of true human kind Wisdom).

    And by logic only a philosophical thinking & minded individual will ever understand the words written by a philosopher. The two communication frequency’s have to be on the same frequency otherwise there will be no communication synchronization.

    No you did not renounced your Christian being ……… you only moved closer to the Christ being stage.
    You researched into the left hand path ……. now its your time to research into the right hand side path because you freed yourself from the organization bondage.

    I am convinced with your logical will & way of thinking that you will crack the reality code of the scriptures & the mystery which is hidden within; because you showing the will to do so as far I can make out from your comments.

    Scripture is all about understanding & not ever about believing.
    All scripture is based on logic in its own written philosophical code languish.

    Example:
    The word Flesh in scripture use means = the true Words.
    The word Blood in scripture use means = the true Spirit.
    Hence eat my flesh & drink my blood ………> > Means Take my Words inward & let them flow through the/my Spirit.

    Anyway each on them own ……. others can only point into a direction & the rest is up to the individual.
    Reality things or Truth will never be forced in any form or way!

    Try think into this text & see what you getting ………..

    Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way. There is a rebirth and an image of rebirth. It is certainly necessary to be born again through the image. Which one? Resurrection. The image must rise again through the image. The bridal chamber and the image must enter through the image into the truth: this is the restoration. Not only must those who produce the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, do so, but have produced them for you. If one does not acquire them, the name (“Christian”) will also be taken from him. But one receives the unction of the […] of the power of the cross. This power the apostles called “the right and the left.” For this person is no longer a Christian but a Christ.

    http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gop.html

    Regards;
    Mario

  229. Armchair Taikun
    Posted June 21, 2015 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    In due time , we shall come face to face with the Truth.

    and at that time

    We can neither debunk it nor embrace it.

    My foolish 2 cents in this matter

  230. Josef
    Posted June 22, 2015 at 4:55 am | Permalink

    Good morning, Mario! What does it mean? This drinking of the Lord’s blood in my opinion, means to put our trust in His blood that was shed on the cross. The eating of His flesh means, in my opinion, believing that He died on the cross as an atoning sacrifice. So, it’s all about highly esteeming what the Lord did on our behalf.

  231. MichaelFree
    Posted September 17, 2015 at 5:12 am | Permalink

    This is what happens when one applies God-hood to a deity-being and not to a Spirit that human beings words and deeds are done in: one can say this statement and it is true, and must be honored as such:

    “If God were half as trustworthy as the average garbage man, there would be no debate about his existence”.

    God is to be found in truth. The truth is not a person. One cannot make light of truthful words or peaceful deeds and walk away with their honor intact but they can make light of deity and walk away with their honor intact. Now imagine if there is an actual benevolent deity, who honors the deity, the person who follows the truth (benevolence, not a deity), or the person who attributes to deity human sins (malevolence) such as thefts, physical assaults, rapes, murders, torture, and slavery? At least the follower of truth is able to be one with goodness (not a deity) without all the mind games of deity worship.

    My neighbor is a Sikh. Christianity wants me to bow to a purported God-deity who tortures Sikhs in the afterlife. The answer is no Christianity, I will not be a Christian. Even if Christianity were true, it would be a lie, and because of this I know I won already.

    Take care.

  232. tSharon Ledford
    Posted October 16, 2015 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    Have ya’ll ever thought about asking GOD to reveal the truth to you? There are many things that are only revealed to us by GOD, including the parables and Jesus! The old testament is full of things about Jesus that you will see if you ask GOD to show you the truth. We can read other writers’ works but GOD is the author of all truth. If we fail to seek GOD about these things, we could run into confusion. There is also a very big risk one takes when using tools from the dark side that blinds us from the truth. I challenge you to lay aside everything that has left you doubting the Creator and the GOD of all life and just ask Him to tell you what the truth is. May He be quick in His answer to you and may you be quick to receive the truth of what He says to you. GOD loves you! GOD Bless you!

  233. Posted October 20, 2015 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorry if I gave the impression that one must be dumb to be with God! I

    My point is that smarter people often over complicate things.

    I see a world of difference between having a simple faith and being simple minded. It seems easier (from my perspective) for the less erudite to have a simple faith. Like little children, when they can totally trust their parents. Simple mindedness in and of itself does not factor into salvation. There are vicious witless people. Vicious smart people. Obtuse but nice people. And perspicacious, virtuous people. God loves them ALL; He’s patient not willing that any should perish but all choose the good life from/with Him.

    It certainly matters what one believes; It’s all about understanding what God truly is like. God does not contradict Himself. If it looks like God is not consistent, then we are looking at it wrong. What is God like? Jesus said, If you have seen me you have seen the Father. He also said, “I am the Way, Truth, and Life. Parts of the Old Testament….raise some huge questions for me. I like what I heard that Mother Teresa replied when she was asked what she wants to know or she’ll ask God, it was something like, “You’ve got a whole lot of explaining to do.”

    But what matters most is not what one believes but in Whom one believes. God is not a respecter of persons. He has the same criteria for people of all IQs: To believes in Jesus, trust Him as Savior AND Lord. That’s everything, but that means a lot: As Savior He saves you from perishing, but as Lord He also saves you from your sins (Matt 1:21)

    When one realizes salvation is a gift that establishes a relationship with one’s Creator, the rest of one’s life is about maintaining that relationship and allowing Him to lead in the way one grows. So the work is staying connected to Him. John 15: He’s the Vine, we’re the branches. We can do noting without Him but die. Guess that makes sense… He’s Life. Without Him….

  234. Posted October 20, 2015 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    But what matters most is not what one believes but in Whom one believes. God is not a respecter of persons. He has the same criteria for people of all IQs: To believes in Jesus, trust Him as Savior AND Lord. That’s everything, but that means a lot: As Savior He saves you from perishing, but as Lord He also saves you from your sins (Matt 1:21)

    When one realizes salvation is a gift that establishes a relationship with one’s Creator, the rest of one’s life is about maintaining that relationship and allowing Him to lead in the way one grows. So the work is staying connected to Him. John 15: He’s the Vine, we’re the branches. We can do noting without Him but die. Guess that makes sense… He’s Life. Without Him….

    Hey there Troy,

    Just so you know, I could have said all those words myself a few years ago when I was a Bible believing Christian. One of the things that led to my loss of faith was the realization that there is no God. Everything that I called “God” was just the product of my own imagination. And I could see the same thing in other believers. They would interpret their own feelings, impressions, and imaginations as God talking to them. So maybe you could explain how you discern between your own imagination and the “voice of God.” That would be helpful.

    Great chatting!

    Richard

  235. Posted October 21, 2015 at 11:35 pm | Permalink

    Hi Richard,

    Discerning between my imagination and the voice of God means comparing my ideas to what I know of Him in the Bible. If what I think or believe cannot be backed up by clear statements or examples from the Bible, then either I am speculating (which is dangerous) or wrong. “To the law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” (Isa. 8:20) But knowing what the Bible says is more than what is right or wrong. It’s about understanding what God is like, His character. “Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and [a]truth; 7 who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.” (Ex 34:6&7)

    That’s how He describes Himself. That’s the way it is. That’s the truth. It bothers some (it definitely did me) that God “visits” the iniquity of fathers on their children, grandchildren, ggkids, gggkids,,. So what does “visiting…on” mean? “Visiting…on” seems to give the connotation of inflicting upon. What else does the Bible say about sin between parent and child? Ezek. 18:19ff addresses this: ““Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. 20“The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.” So this makes clear that God does not inflict generational punishment. So the “visiting…on” means something else. Biologically, genetically, it fits. The way God made humans, if kids can inherit the good, they can inherit the bad as well. Genetic predisposition to alcoholism has been one example of the negative. And it can be a good thing, inheriting good qualities is apparent in many instances in career choices. It certainly would be a warning that God wanted parents to take into account: choices to do intentional wrong (iniquity) has an effect on one’s downline. Parents and grandparents generally are protective of their children. If they understood that their actions could cost their kids hurt or harm, it might encourage them to avoid that.

    The point is that our perception of God must be primarily in the life and words of Jesus. Did Jesus say anything about protecting one’s children, doing them harm? Something about a millstone comes to mind….

    So in short, our imaginations must be guided by what the Bible says is true.
    What I imagine can be any whim, usually self-gratifying, things

    You wrote, “One of the things that led to my loss of faith was the realization that there is no God.” What brought about that understanding, if I may ask?

    Take care,

    Troy

    PS. Have you seen the “Harvard Cell Animation” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GigxU1UXZXo
    That takes some imagination!

  236. Posted November 2, 2015 at 2:20 am | Permalink

    Richard, in regards to your phrase:

    I’d like to address the “errors” and “contradictions” portion of that.
    The errors in the Greek version of the New Testament are all resolved in the Aramaic (Eastern Peshitta) version. For example, the genealogy contradiction of Matthew chapter 1 – completely resolved in the Aramaic.

    See my chart here:
    http://www.jtod.org/files/Genealogy-in-Matthew.pdf

    I won’t address the mythology and moral abominations claims at this point, but I think those will also have resolutions, upon closer inspection.

    The earliest complete Peshitta NT dates back to 164 CE, which is way earlier than the Greek side of things, and there are over 500 Greek NT errors and contradictions which are resolved in the Peshitta. I have to say that I’ve been quite impressed with it.

    http://JTOD.org/aent.cfm

  237. Posted November 3, 2015 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    Hi Richard,

    Well, I’m glad you’ve heard of the Peshitta previously.

    Hey there Teddy, it’s good to be chatting.

    It’s true that the Eastern Peshitta did not canonize several minor letters and Revelation, however, they hold those books in high esteem. And these books are preserved just fine in the Western Peshitto (the Western Five) which satisfies most.

    Well, it certainly would not have satisfied me when I was a Christian. I was under the strong conviction that the 66 book canon was the “Word of God.” I believed that God was intimately involved in the revelation of His Holy Word in the Hebrew OT and the Greek NT and that there was no way he would have let a corrupt version dominate throughout history as you would have it. I encountered many people who attacked the Greek NT as “corrupt” and “pagan” when I was a Christian and I judged them all of them as cultic and entirely unbiblical. They typically went so far as to change the very text itself, such as changing the name Paul to “Sha’ul.” And then there was E. L. Martin who was a member of Herbert Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God cult. He invented an entirely new version of the Bible that had never actually existed in the history of the world, and had the audacity to call it the “Original Bible Restored.” You can see my review (written when I was a Christian), here.

    When I was a Christian, I felt that people who cast doubt on the Greek NT were enemies of God’s Word. And that opinion remains to this day, because if you are right, then God let his people be deceived by the best evidence for the last two thousand years.

    This is certainly a minority opinion – *in the West.* However, scholars in the East are unanimous on this; that the gospels and letters were delivered in Aramaic straight to the door of the Church of the East in Antioch by the hands of the Apostles themselves – either in person or by direct representatives (like Timothy was a courier for Paul, etc).

    Biblical scholars are “unanimous?” That would be a first. Please provide a link to validate the “scholastic consensus.”

    The whole story about “Greek lingua franca” in the Holy Land is a fiction devised by western scholars to boost the Greek NT. No doubt there has been a great split between east and west, and so the west has lost the knowledge of these facts:

    Ugh. A conspiracy theory? Sorry, they usually don’t stand up well under scrutiny.

    Jewish writers wrote in Aramaic – see the Mishnah and the Talmud.

    Jewish writers also wrote in Greek. See the Septuagint and Josephus.

    We know from Josephus that Jews were not apt to learn pagan languages such as Greek.

    Josephus wrote in Greek.

    The Church of the East was 10 times the size of the Western Church until 800 CE.

    Says who? And so what?

    The Gospel reached India during the first century in Aramaic, not Greek.
    The Gospel reached China first in Aramaic, not Greek, at least 1000 years before Europe arrived in the 1800’s.

    Citations please.

    If we have no reason to doubt Josephus, then it’s conceivable that Paul wrote his letters in Aramaic, which were then translated rather quickly at Edessa for travel to the west. Meanwhile, his letters *did* travel eastwards in Aramaic.

    Josephus has nothing to do with this question. It is obvious for many reasons that Paul wrote in Greek. That’s why (as opposed to your conspiracy theory) that the scholastic consensus is that Paul wrote in Greek.

    Textual comparison between the two leads toward Aramaic primacy rather than Greek.

    No way. The near universal consensus is that Paul wrote in Greek as did almost all NT writers. The only possible exception is Matthew and maybe the Book to the Hebrews.

    No sign of any “fixes” inserted – rather, many of the “problems” clearly result from sloppy copying from Aramaic to Greek. Many of these only work one way – as in, one direction. See my Matt. 1 article for an example. In short, the Greek scribe wrote “husband” in v.16 when he could have (should have) chosen “father.” Verse 19 can only mean “husband.”
    http://www.jtod.org/files/Genealogy-in-Matthew.pdf

    I’ve seen that, but I don’t see how it supports your assertion that they could not have been fixes inserted by scribes. Everyone knows that the existing mss are filled with such “fixes.” Why should anyone think the Aramaic scribes were any different?

    The Khabouris Manuscript is a copy of a document dated at 164 CE. It bears the seal and signature of the Bishop at the Church at Nineveh, then capital of the Assyrian Empire located today in the present-day Iraqi city of Mosul. As pages got worn out, they would be copied – all in the 1st-century Estrangelo style text. Since pretty much all the pages were worn out and recopied, carbon dating places most pages between 900-1100 CE. It agrees with the 1905/1920 Critical Edition.

    A good intro to the Khabouris history:
    http://www.whyagain.org/index.php/en/khabouris-manuscript-aramaic/history

    I find your claims quite incredulous. They sound like the kind of thing a cult member would believe. Please take no offense. I’m just telling you what I really believe. Only a cult member could think that a book dated by carbon dating to the 11th century was so dated because all the original pages had been copied, like the Ship of Theseus.

    “Why did God allow the world to be deceived by the Greek?”
    Well, that would be only the Western world, no? 😉
    No worries. 2 Thess 2:3 warned of a great “falling away.”
    And yet, whether thru the Aramaic, the Greek, or even the Latin, English, Spanish, whatever, in my opinion, people have been coming to the Truth (because His Word does not return void, Isa. 55:11).

    No, it is not only the “Western world.” I was under the impression that the Greek freaking Orthodox used the Greek freaking NT because they believed it was freaking inspired by God. Are you telling me I was mistaken? OK. Please provide a source so I can educate myself.

    As for the “great falling away.” If that’s related to the Greek NT, then that’s been going on for the last 2000 years!

    You say many people are coming to the “truth”? Great! Which truth are you talking about? The Catholic “truth” that says Protestants are heretics, or the Protestant “truth” that says Catholics are “antichrist”? Or the Greek Orthodox “truth” that says they both are wrong? LOL

    I’ve personally raised the dead through prayer. I know what I’m talking about.

    You won’t get any argument from me! (I’ve learned when to cut and run.)

    Greek mss outnumber the Aramaic because of persecution, book-burnings, and things like that time Constantine hired Eusebius to copy out 50 copies of the Alexandrian (corrupt) Greek text.

    Sure. That’s the ticket. Any story will do so long as it confirms what you want to believe, eh?

    I don’t make a big deal about Greek gematria. If I had known you back then, I would have advised you to cool it on that stuff, and focus on the Resurrection and its implications for your life.

    That’s the kind of thing most believers said to me. What makes you think my interest in the “divine design of God’s Holy Word” made me any less interested in the Resurrection? Comments like yours have always struck me as grossly arrogant. Who are you to judge me in the wonder I saw in God’s Word?

    If you had been more deeply introduced to the Peshitta back then, it would have accelerated your departure *from the Greek* — not from the faith. It would have bolstered your faith, probably.

    Yes, the evil pagan Greek Bible. I’ve heard that a million times. My favorite example is the lunatic freak Michael Rood. Are you familiar with him? He made up his own religion. Predicted the end would come in the year 2000. Totally failed freaking prophet. And he preached the same thing … the Greek Bible is pagan and should be rejected. It all looks like just another cult to me.

    Getting beyond the texts, and into the subject of faith, the big question is – did the resurrection really happen or not? Simon Greenleaf was an atheist, an accomplished lawyer who founded the Harvard School of Law. He set out on a mission to legally prove the resurrection did not exist – seeking to destroy Christianity for good. Truth won, and he became a believer instead.

    For the resurrection investigation, it doesn’t matter if one uses Aramaic or Greek or whatever. It works out the same because you’re just checking out what the narrative says about the eyewitnesses etc.

    Ha! You’ve got to be joking! Simon Greenleaf was no atheist. He was a total BIBLE BELIEVER when he wrote that book. You have been deceived, which is no surprise given that you are a cult member. (Again, please take no offense. I’m just telling you what I believe is the TRUTH. I trust you understand. It does no one any good for me to pretend otherwise. I think you are radically deluded.)

    So did the resurrection happen? Of course not. Duh. This is obvious if you just read the text. The four gospels are totally contradictory and irreconcilable. We have a big challenge to ALL CHRISTIANS called Dan Barker’s Resurrection Challenge. It’s very simple. All you need to do to win is to present a coherent account of the resurrection using all the Bible data. To this date, no Christian has succeeded. Christianity has been refuted. QED.

    As for the differences between John and the synoptic gospels, yes, really, those can be harmonized not only by the Peshitta but also by a decent understanding of Hebrew calendar, feasts, idioms of speech, and how that affects the way the timings play out.

    No way. John never mentions James who plays a central role in the synoptics. And there are a hundred other inconsistencies not harmonized by the Aramaic. Sorry.

    Try reading the narrative without those verses. It reads just fine without a hiccup. That’s one big sign that the “Jochanine Comma” was inserted by some errant scribe in the second century long after John had died.

    Bingo! Scribes inserted all sorts of crap. Why should anyone think the Peshitta is any different, especially since God didn’t even bother to make the text dominant?

    If Peshitta is copied from the Greek, surely *some* Peshitta mss would contain the Jochanine Comma?!
    Surely *some* would read “husband” in Matthew 1:16, like *all* the greek mss do!?

    Ha! How many texts are there?

    All the best as you continue your search, Richard.
    Let me know your thoughts.

    Thanks Teddy. Loving the conversation. I trust you see that I speak my mind freely. I hope this encourages you to do the same. The things we are discussing involve matters of life and death.

    Great chatting,

    Richard

  238. Posted November 4, 2015 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Hi Richard,

    If I may ask a question….regarding the veracity, inerrancy, and reliability of religious texts, what are your thoughts regarding the Decalogue?

    Troy

  239. Posted November 4, 2015 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Hey there Troy,

    I don’t think the Ten Commandments were inspired by God, and they are not even a good basis for morality. They are directed entirely at men (as revealed in the masculine cases of the verbs) and they emphasize things that are not moral issues, such as the Sabbath, and ignore the core of all morality which is the Golden Rule (fairness and empathy).

    Why do you ask?

    Richard

  240. MichaelFree
    Posted November 6, 2015 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    How do you recognize this God:

    I am the LORD thy God
    Thou shalt have no other gods
    No graven images or likenesses
    Not take the LORD’s name in vain

    This God not only asks followers of truth to do these things, but also adheres to them itself:

    Remember the sabbath day
    Honour thy father and thy mother
    Thou shalt not kill (and thou shalt not physically assault other people, rape other people, torture other people, or enslave other people).
    Thou shalt not commit adultery
    Thou shalt not steal
    Thou shalt not bear false witness
    Thou shalt not covet
    Love one another

    “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that people should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets”.

    Amen.

  241. Posted November 12, 2015 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    For whatever reason, my response to your reply with the links to your studies of the Decalogue is not showing above. I don’t know why you would not have gotten it, but in brief I replied that from my perspective your math is too complicated, way beyond what a 4th or 5th grader could appreciate. I don’t think God makes understanding important things difficult. “Genius is the ability to reduce the complicated to the simple” C.W. Ceram [pen name of K.W. Marek, kind of a cute phonetic semordnilap, I thought.]

    I see the Decalogue as a literary work of astounding elegance and musical mastery, as well as a mathematical artifact both precisely designed and ingeniously written to show God is a master of language, mathematics, poetry, (and gematria if that is of interest to more esoteric thinkers).

    The second and more important concern was your assertion that Jesus is a kind of Darth Vader. Your perspective: “If Jesus is Yahweh, then Jesus commanded the murder of innocent babies and their mothers. How is that loving?”

    If I may put it more starkly, How does killing mothers and smashing babies fit with Jesus whose kindness to children drew them to Him?

    Desperate times require desperate measures. When a culture descends to the diabolical depths of routinely destroying the most innocent and helpless, where children were sacrificed to the Ammonite god Molech, there comes a time to destroy that culture. Nineveh was to that point when God sent Jonah, and it repented. Jonah got angry at God’s mercy because it made Jonah look like a false prophet, but God is merciful when He can be. When there is no hope for change, God acts decisively.

    If humans can find a rationale to fire bomb cities and create a living hell for millions to end the horrors of WWII, how can one charge God with injustice to put an end to evil, and make it a quick end. Had it been done when and how God first directed, such an experience would have been so revolting that I cannot see how anyone could ever become inured and desensitized to the point of taking up the very practice that they were told to eradicate. Yet, by Jeremiah’s time, after Solomon in all his twisted human wisdom sacrificed to Molech, after Mannassah became renowned for this evil, God had to take what was left of His people (Israel had been extirpated because they did not extirpate the evil as directed) and send Judah into Babylonian captivity as He had taken them out of slavery from Egypt. But this was after many generations who would not follow Him, as Jeremiah records it:

    31“Indeed this city has been to Me a provocation of My anger and My wrath from the day that they built it, even to this day, so that it should be removed from before My face, 32because of all the evil of the sons of Israel and the sons of Judah which they have done to provoke Me to anger—they, their kings, their leaders, their priests, their prophets, the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 33“They have turned their back to Me and not their face; though I taught them, teaching again and again, they would not listen and receive instruction. 34“But they put their detestable things in the house which is called by My name, to defile it. 35“They built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of Ben-hinnom to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I had not commanded them nor had it entered My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

    36“Now therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning this city of which you say, ‘It is given into the hand of the king of Babylon by sword, by famine and by pestilence.’ 37“Behold, I will gather them out of all the lands to which I have driven them in My anger, in My wrath and in great indignation; and I will bring them back to this place and make them dwell in safety. 38“They shall be My people, and I will be their God;” (Jer. 32)

    Even with such a drastic measure as to make them captives again as they were in Egypt, He did not give up on them. The refrain that appears from Genesis 17:7 to Revelation 21:7 and over thirty places in between is this: God so wants to be with His people. And He so loved them that He gave His one and only Son….

    While Jesus came as one who was gentle to the fragile (“A bruised reed He will not break And a dimly burning wick He will not extinguish; He will faithfully bring forth justice.” Isaiah 42:3),
    Jesus was neither kind nor gentle to hypocrites and the religious snoots of His day. He called them whitewashed graves, and vipers. He had no mercy for the wily merchants who made the temple court a stockyard. He came to show if there is a spark of hope, He will not extinguish it. But for those who know better, there will come a day of reckoning. At just the right time, when Pilate could have done the right thing, he was given a message from his wife: “While he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent him a message, saying, “Have nothing to do with that righteous Man; for last night I suffered greatly in a dream because of Him.” (Matt. 27.19)

    Furthermore, Jesus directly told Pilate that He was a King, but He did not come to be King, but to “testify to the truth”:

    “Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?” 34Jesus answered, “Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about Me?” 35Pilate answered, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; what have You done?” 36Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” 37Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

    If anyone is of the truth, they will hear Jesus’ voice.

    When asked directly, Jesus told the Sanhedrein what should have given them pause: ” Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” 62And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.” (Mark 14)

    They were not of the truth.

    Those who hear His voice will hear the Truth.

    To whom much is given, much is required.

    So I affirm, Jesus is not a Darth Vader who only wields a “Force” in the imagination of dupes, but both a gentle Lamb sacrificed for all who are not too proud to believe, and the King of Kings and the LORD of Lords who personally will see to it that the problem of sin is fixed forever.

    In these lines from “Paradise Lost,”John Milton gave voice to the ambitious antagonist whose pride created “war in heaven” and landed in hell.

    (Original)
    Hail horrours, hail [ 250 ]
    Infernal world, and thou profoundest Hell
    Receive thy new Possessor: One who brings
    A mind not to be chang’d by Place or Time.
    The mind is its own place, and in it self
    Can make a Heav’n of Hell, a Hell of Heav’n. [ 255 ]
    What matter where, if I be still the same,
    And what I should be, all but less then he
    Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least
    We shall be free; th’ Almighty hath not built
    Here for his envy, will not drive us hence: [ 260 ]
    Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce
    To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
    Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav’n.

    https://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/ reading_room/pl/book_1/text.shtml

    Paraphrase (mine, crude as it may be)
    Greetings horrors, greetings damnable,
    and most serious place of terror
    I’m your new owner, and I’m not one to
    change due to circumstances.
    One with imagination may within oneself
    Create the best out of the worst and
    worst out of the best of circumstances.

    The place does not matter so long as I am me
    And I’ll be nearly as fearsome as the
    Thunders of God.
    Here at least we have freedom to do and be
    For He did not create this place to be desired,
    Thus He won’t make us leave
    Which means we may rule, do as we please
    Which from my perspective is better:
    To be in charge was my worthy goal, even if it’s to rule Hell;
    I’d rather that than to help other’s in heaven.

    But that’s just the beginning of the story of God’s epic work to win back His children after they were fooled by a snake to mistrust Him.

    What a long, sad story it has been. God did not start the war, but He will finish it.

    Revelation 21 paints a beautiful picture of hope. There’s the choice to accept the invitation to the marriage supper of the Lamb, or the other option, to be at the great supper of God, but that is for the birds.

    It reminds me of Hamlet’s reply to Claudius’ demand to know where Polonius was:
    H: “At supper.”
    C: “At supper where?”
    H: “Not where he eats, but where he is eaten. A certain convocation of politic worms are e’en at him. Your worm is your only emperor for diet. We fat all creatures else to fat us, and we fat ourselves for maggots. Your fat king and your lean beggar is but variable service—two dishes, but to one table. That’s the end.”

    For us it is either where we will eat or where we will be eaten. We may either serve Him and join His table, or fete ourselves for the feathered connoisseurs of carrion: that reliable dark cloud of savy scavengers that will be waiting for both emperor and beggar alike.

    And that will be the end.

    I prefer to be at the table with my King, even if I’m just bussing tables.

  242. Jay
    Posted November 27, 2015 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    Richard,

    Thanks for your response. I responded with my thoughts to your new post.

    Jay

  243. Posted March 21, 2016 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    I truly experienced all of the many experiences that I experienced as I knocked on doors to “save” people, and to tell them I was sent to inform they they were going to hell if they didn’t do it “my” *the way of my master) way…then I realized I was already in heaven…and here to make it paradise.

    Traveled your path…Love your story. You are a scholar and a gentleman! Looking forward to sharing your work (s)….

    In the Highest Vibration of Love
    Kween

  244. Posted April 12, 2016 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Hey there oldwvfl,

    Yes, it is a good demonstration of how humans love patterns and can find them everywhere. Science exemplifies the great value of this abiltiy. The difference with things like astrology, tarot, and numerology is that it is a grand exercise in cherry picking. The patterns do not actually account for all the data, unlike physical theories that account for the path of an arbitrary baseball for example.

    It is indeed a powerful creative exercise, a kind of intense intellectual art, which would be fine if it didn’t pretend to be a science that accounts for actual facts. But without the assumption that it corresponds to reality, it quickly becomes quite irrelevant.

    I listened to some of your songs. Nice work! That’s art.

  245. Posted April 14, 2016 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    🙂 hah thanks, didn’t expect a listen.

    I agree with your response. I’m curious, taking all of your mystical, Jungian, biblical, etc..studies into account, what do you feel is the most valuable (if any) aspect of esoterica? I’ve long been interested in it as a form of Art, but could never grasp its pertinence to functional reality. I.e., the Tarot seems like it could be useful if used creatively or for drawing connections between things, though simultaneously as evidenced by your bible wheel it’s these very types of grasping-correspondences which may lead one down a rabbit hole…

  246. Just passing by
    Posted April 27, 2016 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    Mr McGough

    Thank you for your webpage…

    Have a great day.

  247. Andrew
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    …….So…. I have a lot to say after reading your debunked page/adventure testimony. Unfortunately, if i get started in this comment box I will quickly run out of room.

    That being said, I wish to simply share that I have had my own “life adventure”. I have spent the past 8 years scouring through physics and metaphysics looking for some confirmation in the legitimacy of faith.

    Long story short, I found what I was looking for. My questions were answered and my faith confirmed.

    My physical proof was found in the mathematical functions of Pi and Golden Ratio. 2 different formulas expressing similar function. Later I discovered that they are only 2 examples of an infinite variety of that Function. (I would be willing to expand on that if you choose to ask.)

    My Metaphysical proof was found “in the wind” so to speak. I experienced something a few years back which led me to the confirmation that the complexities and flawless mechanical nature of the natural universe could not have spontaneously come into existence. I know what I saw and the Truth is the Natural Universe was expertly designed by Intelligence. (again I would love to elaborate if you were curious enough to ask me.) Although, I do admittedly choose for myself to place my faith in that that designer was the Hebrew God and His Son the Christ.

    Well, I better leave it there, like I said, if I go into anymore detail I would end up writing you a book. (yes i have been putting a book together over the last 3+ years.)

    I simply wanted to thank you for putting this all together and sharing your story and to share back with you some things I went through that allowed me to relate to your story.

    -Andrew

  248. Linda
    Posted July 1, 2016 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    Hello Richard,

    Thank you for boldly stating your truth.

    In the line of site, it can be difficult to put oneself in the cross hairs against such ingrained beliefs. I am inspired by your extensive Bible studies, Bible wheel and decision to question all you believe in. Knowledge is good, above all rubies, when we grab hold of Her, from the tree of life. You have dared tasted to eat, and share openly your pearls of wisdom.

    On my own spiritual quest of studies, I was amazed to learn of history before the Bible. Sumerians, Chaldeans, Enuma Elish, Greek Mythology. etc, etc…, I came across your Bible Wheel, gematria, numerology, etc at that time. Entered into a world of intrigue, this was 2-1/2 years ago. A shattering of a window, in a sense. Because when I knocked, the floodgates surely opened.

    I grew up without any direction of any religion. I reflect back, and say I was always a free thinker, even at a very young age. I saw around me those that I felt, were messed up from religious doctines. The church seemed hypocritical and not a place of love, but of shame, if one did not adhere to its teachings. This view from a 10 year old child.

    I am now 51. I have explored with help of the internet, information we have never had access to before, at least to our present knowledge, now having access to expand, explore, investigate such things as ancient writings, archaelogy, space exploration, DNA, physics, NASA, so much more.., all the wonders that exist in the world, and beyond.

    Personally, I have always had a faith. I have had experiences that cannot be qualified, per se, at least scientifically, as a reproduceable experience. Perhaps still, a scientific experiment, the scientist never to be truly known. Perhaps my truth to me is more universal these days. Truth is one’s perceptions.

    The periodic table is another interesting thing that I ponder. Who assigned the letters and values to these elements?

    According to Wiki : “The first 94 elements exist naturally, although some are found only in trace amounts and were synthesized in laboratories before being found in nature.[n 1]Elements with atomic numbers from 95 to 118 have only been synthesized in laboratories or nuclear reactors.[2] Synthesis of elements having higher atomic numbers is being pursued. Numerous syntheticradionuclides of naturally occurring elements have also been produced in laboratories.”

    “In 1857, German chemist August Kekuléobserved that carbon often has four other atoms bonded to it. Methane, for example, has one carbon atom and four hydrogen atoms.[48] This concept eventually became known as valency; different elements bond with different numbers of atoms.[49]”

    On March 28th, of this year, 2016. I had a dream, more like a voice awakening me. I wrote down the words. ” Order. Study of Tau. Agitating the jar”. So I did take time, to study this, too.

    I don’t claim I know anything that is of value to other’. I only know for me, the breadth, width, heighth of truth, is truly indescernible.

    I read a carbon atom has 6 protons, 6 neutrons, and 6 electrons. Simply, perhaps the revelation of 666 identifying the Beast is simply mankind. I also read the World Wide Web has the same value.
    Who can really know what man’s truth is? Whatever it is, it seems to begin with the power of one’s words.

    Sincerely,
    Linda

  249. Johnathon Wright
    Posted August 16, 2016 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    I find it disastrously sad that a man who can apparently solve supremely complex mathematical equations for a living would think of himself as delusional when it came to esoteric things that “normal” people would shy away from. And you do it without real knowledge. Frankly, your whole “debunking” lacks knowledge and is only reform to societal constructs out of fear and/or lack of understanding. You consider these great magnificent things you learned “coincidences” which if you had any real common sense, you would know that’s only modern day society’s “cop out” of belief in anything that would cause them to question. If you truly knew as you pretend to, there wouldn’t be any need to question or be in doubt. Why did you stop believing??? REPENT FROM YOUR SINS OR PERISH!!

  250. Posted August 17, 2016 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    Hi Johnathon,

    Thank you for your comments, but I would need a little more detail before I can correct my errors. You say that my post article lacks any “real knowledge.” I have no idea what you could be talking about. Could you please specify what “knowledge” is missing and how I might obtain it?

    What exactly did I fail to understand?

    You say that the “things” I learned were “great and magnificent.” Are you talking about the occult traditions of Kabbalah, I Ching, Tarot, Astrology, Numerology, etc.?

    You asked why I quit believing – here is an answer: Why I Quit Christianity.

    I can’t see how your suggestion that I “repent” would help since that’s what I did when I was a believer. If there is a God who will cause me to “perish” for not believing things I don’t believe then there’s nothing I can do to prevent that. Such a god would be an demented demon.

  251. Yoni
    Posted August 17, 2016 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    Congratulations Richard, Yasher Koach!

  252. Posted October 3, 2016 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Is Satan untrustworthy?

    Does the Bible say he is trustworthy?

  253. Posted October 18, 2016 at 2:32 am | Permalink

    Yaouil,

    During my career of more than fifty years as a dedicated evangelist, I rarely experienced such a vicious attack on the integrity of the Word of God.
    You wrote: “The scripture is just an human work”. And also:
    “Human effort and cult to a blinding idol (the bible)”.

    That reminds me of the inspired statement of Yeshua’s apostle Paul. Referring to those who wrongly claimed being apostles of the Messiah, Paul wrote about them:

    “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as Christ’s apostles. And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also masquerade as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works”
    (Two Corinthians 11:13-15).

    But apart from that it appears that Yeshua himself relied heavily on the Bible and its contents.
    Example:

    According to Luke 20:41-44, in a conversation with the Pharisees, he referred thus to Psalm 110 >>

    “How do they say that the Messiah is David’s son? For David himself says in the book of Psalms:

    ‘YHWH said to my Lord: Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies [to] a footstool for your feet’.

    David calls him Lord, how is he his son?”

    For my comments, see: HIS PARENTS

    Link:
    http://schriftstudies.tk/?page=view&thema=10+Studies+in+English&studie=01_The+State+of+Israel+in+danger.htm#oESI

  254. MichaelFree
    Posted November 8, 2016 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Christopher Colegrove,

    Your mind trip ends up no where except a bunch of mush and an obligation to sell your soul to a violent God, not because he is righteous, but because he is supposedly God. You don’t think that God has an obligation to not rape people and to not enslave people? If so, the Universe begs to differ.

    Where is it written in the Bible to “DO NOT RAPE OTHER PEOPLE”?

    Now go to an atheist convention and ask everyone you see, male and female, “do you prefer to have consensual sex or to be raped”? After the atheist convention go to a Jewish temple, then to a Christian church, then to a Muslim mosque, and then ask every other human being that you can find the same question. Guess what, you just found where the law is written, which is inside every person, including yourself. Now you have to justify all the God-commanded rapes in the Bible. Which image do you trust when it comes to the law, the law of the Bible which condones rape and slavery or natural law that is written within us which condemns rape and slavery?

    You asked “Is there an absolute truth, absolute morals?” And the answer is yes, I’m a human being, and when one respects each and every individual human being then of course morality is objective, true, present, and knowable.

  255. Posted November 11, 2016 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    The real questions:

    1 – Is there an absolute truth, absolute morals? Is it wrong, what happens in school or mass shootings? Was Hitler wrong to practice genocide? Is stealing wrong?

    Hey there Christopher,

    Excellent questions! I’ve answered them in a post of their own called Does Morality require God? Conversation with Christopher Colegrove.

    See ya there!

    Richard

  256. jack flash
    Posted November 27, 2016 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    1st saw your wheel around 2012. and comend you for the honesty you present, most people would keep the deception going takes bigballs to admit a mistake…i am an 11er since 2011 and the truth is out there and in here…seeya….

  257. Nathan
    Posted January 11, 2017 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    You said: “…the whole point of the religion which posits a parent-like Father God who watches over us, protects us from harm, and answers our prayers.”

    Sorry, but that’s not at all the point of Christianity, which says a lot to me about what you’ve been through. I am sorry you never grasped the truth of the gospel in all those years of searching for detail and hidden patterns. The whole point of Christianity is to bring all glory to God. Our own salvation status is incidental by comparison to that overarching point. We worship the one true God, the creator of the universe.

  258. Posted January 19, 2017 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    At around 19:58 CET this evening, five of Gaia’s eight thrusters will be commanded to fire an automated burn lasting almost two hours. It’s a critical manoeuvre meant to bring Gaia onto its planned operational orbit about the L2 Lagrange point (a second, smaller, burn on 14 January will complete the process).

  259. Brother John
    Posted January 30, 2017 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    I just want to thank Mr McGough for his great work on biblewheel.com. Guessing it was extremely time-consuming, it should better make sense. To me it does. And I hope the bible wheel turns on a long time yet, helpful to different folks in different ways. Inevitably, I think of 1 Cr 19.

  260. Kari Lentz
    Posted February 17, 2017 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    Why is that behind so many unbelievers lurks a humanist liberal? The humanist liberals claim they are rational and intelligent, but are they really? If the liberals are so smart, then why is Detroit such a mess? Why is it that everywhere women’s equality has been tried, without exception there are demographic problems that get covered up by third world immigration? Why is it that these intelligent and enlightened liberals actively promote riots? Why is that liberal often men look feminine and liberal women look masculine and have weight problems?

    If one reads the Word of God, and I’m talking all 66 books, not just Romans 13 or John 8, one gets the impression God hates liberals. But God also tells it like it is, unlike today’s effeminate pastors and that’s the real reason the liberals hate the Word of God. The liberals know that if the Word of God is real, the will get the retribution they deserve.

  261. Mark Brown
    Posted March 11, 2017 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    I respect your views/opinion. For me it is different, faith is believing in something I cannot necessarily prove. You act on that faith(make choices) and it moves you along in your life. Then one day you turn around and the invisible GOD is visible in the choices you made in faith(sanctification).
    Yes, I will agree with you, “what a long strange trip”. The difference is my trip has confirmed GOD’s existence to me. Every decision I put HIS will first and not my own, has turned into subtle miracle that has culminated in peace over my past, contentment in my present and expectation of my future.

    By the way, thank you for the bible wheel. I use it often in my study and many hidden correlations have reveled themselves to me through it. Your work has been a blessing, I wish you well brother

  262. Posted March 11, 2017 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    Hi Mark,

    I appreciate your comments. There are two primary meanings to word “faith”:

    1) Trust in something you know and have reason to trust, such as a chair you can test by sitting on and your dentist who has fixed your teeth many times.

    2) Believing in an unprovable proposition, such as “God exists.”

    Your idea that your faith (def 2) is “confirmed” in hindsight is not a reliable judgment. Muslims, Scientologists, and Tarot card readers all have come to that conclusion “after the fact.” The problem is caused by the human habit of deluding ourselves with cognitive biases like cherry picking (selection bias), confirmation bias, and rationalization. That was the point of my article.

    So the question is this – what would you tell a Muslim, Scientologist, or Tarot card reader who justified their false beliefs using your argument that they have been “confirmed” by their experience?

    Great chatting,

    Richard

  263. Posted March 29, 2017 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Richard, Hi. I was introduced to your site by a believer & numbers person (333 etc.); a com-mentor on my site “333-GodsEndTimeSOSMinistry.org”. Your story sounds a bit similar to an X-believer, Charles Templeton, in “The Case for Christ” & “The Case for Faith”, books by an upstanding investigative reporter, Lee Strobel. Weird how faith works, or doesn’t. Blessings to you on your walk.

  264. Posted March 29, 2017 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Hi John,

    It’s good to meet you. I read Strobel’s “The Case for Christ” and was left with the feeling that Strobel was never anything like a serious atheist. He didn’t ask any of the hard questions in his book. It seemed like he was just preaching to the choir. I certainly wouldn’t describe him as an “upstanding investigative reporter. Do you think maybe you are impressed by him because he confirms what you want to believe?

    I don’t recall the story of Charles Templeton. What makes you think it is similar to mine?

    I glanced at your site but don’t have time to respond right now. If you want to have an in-depth discussion, my forum is a much better format. Check it out here: http://www.biblewheel.com/forum. Registration is free and easy.

    All the best,

    Richard

  265. MG
    Posted April 5, 2017 at 3:28 am | Permalink

    Hi Richard,

    For a start…great site…I love the concept….however very disappointed to find out that you debunked yourself to the point that you actually debunked yourself!!!! But great to see the fine work of the scientific method in full application within your own mind…nice – if a theory cannot be disproven then it eventually will stand as truth – unfortunately your theory was able to be disproven in your mind so it no longer stands as truth for you – but as Jesus said…what is truth…

    Sometimes…we begin with a revelation from the divine but eventually we get lost in the world…anyway…it is my understanding that there are actually 23 visible letters in the Hebrew Alphabet…not 22….Sin and Shin are different….there is also a hidden blank letter that most people don’t know about which makes 24 letters…I won’t go into that here but….its popped up in my own research which actually looks very promising…but that is a different story….anyway in total…you have three rows of 8 hebrew letters…8 + 8 + (7+1 invisible)…and eight is a very significant number as it is the number that refers to new beginnings….

    Anyway…here is my challenge to you…and since you are no longer a Christian you are in the perfect position to debunk G_D for a second time from a logical and scientific standpoint using 24 hebrew letters……since you based your biblewheel off 22 hebrew letters and it didn’t quite work out the way you expected….I wonder my friend….how everything would work out if you used 24 hebrew letters that includes the invisible/unknowable hebrew letter….funnily enough 24 x 3 equals 72 books of the bible [45 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament]….which makes your wheel 3 rings like the original but now working off 72 books instead of your original 66…

    Kabbalah is not from G_d but gematria is…as G_d is the great mathematician….if G_d is not real as you say and the bible is false…then being the scientist that you are…you know full well that you should test every theory…before accepting something as truth…

    Anyway….please try out your wheel with 24 hebrew letters instead of 22 using the 72 books identified in the Catholic canon…I challenge you to debunk your theory for a second time…and I would be very interested to see the results…we get things wrong but G_D doesn’t….I can be contacted by email should you wish to converse…

    God Bless my brother

    Mgeg76

  266. Posted April 5, 2017 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    Hey there Mgeg76,

    I appreciate your comments, but I think you misunderstood how the debunking works. There is absolutely ZERO chance that using a different canon and more letters would change my conclusions because the method of imposing a pattern and then cherry picking “hits” is fundamentally flawed. People can always find “patterns” in any random set of data. A few years ago I created a Catholic Bible Wheel to demonstrate this point. I didn’t use the speculative “24 Hebrew letters” (which I never saw any validity in even when a believer because it was just another example of how people make up things) but rather the 24 Greek letters that span Alpha to Omega. This Bible Wheel then “seals” the Catholic Bible from “Alpha to Omega” in direct parallel with the explicit text of Revelation that calls Jesus Christ, (also called the Word) the “Alpha and Omega.” This discovery finally burst my bubble and I broke completely free from the delusion that the the Protestant Bible Wheel was “proof” that God designed the Bible. I discuss this in detail in my article Battle of the Bible Wheels: Catholic vs. Protestant.

  267. Sheldon
    Posted May 23, 2017 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Hi Mr. McGough,
    I strongly believe that God is calling me to reach out to you at this time so I hope that you read what I am about to say prayerfully and carefully. God showed me a lot of what he showed to you and at around the same time. That could not be a co-incidence. When God showed me the significance of the Hebrew Alphabet in relation to the structure of the Bible I initially did not have the internet to help me. I did not even have a computer but relied on Encyclopedias and Hebrew Lexicons in book form. The first paragraph of your article above is exactly how I felt when God showed me what the Hebrew Alphabet stood for.

    When I first saw your site I was amazed that someone else I had never met had a lot of the same ideas and as I said at around the same time. I do not even live on your continent but in the Caribbean! You called it “The Bible Wheel” and I called it “Alphabeta.” I however noted some differences between what God showed me and what you were writing on your site. The problem with your Biblewheel is not that it is totally wrong but that it is great truth mixed with great error – the mystery of God mixed with mysticism. What you have been reacting to is the error in the midst of the truth rather than the truth itself. You have noticed that the bathwater is contaminated and you are ready to throw away the baby with the bathwater.

    Is the Bible divided into a pattern of 22 Hebrew letters? It most certainly is and it can easily be proven. But that is chapter-wise NOT book-wise. You got the chapter part totally right but when you launched into dividing the Bible into 22 parts, well, that cannot be backed by the available evidence. In fact the present Bible is not even in the same order that the early Jews had it in so attempting to divide the present order into something meaningful is a plan doomed to fail. Additionally forget the Kabbala. It is devilish and has no place in your great research.

    If you cannot prove that the Bible is divinely inspired using the Biblewheel do not despair or worry. That is not what it was meant to do. Every tool has its use. A hammer is a very important tool, but you could not use it to cut paper, could you? Should we throw away the hammer because it can’t do a simple thing like cut paper? No way! A scissors is a very important tool, but you wouldn’t want to pound in a nail with it, would you? That’s not what it is to be used for. Leave proving the Bible’s divine inspiration to detailed Bible prophecies like the 2300 years prophecy of Daniel 8 and 9 or the time prophecies of two of Revelation’s back-to-back trumpet visions. There are also many more Old Testament prophecies concerning nations that, while not having dates, are very detailed and were accurately fulfilled. Couple that with archeological finds that disprove the past findings of both conventional historians and scientists.

    The Biblewheel, minus the concepts which I indicated are erroneous, is a great tool to show parallels to Bible chapters so readers can find parallel chapters quickly and get deeper insight out of their Bibles. Additionally, due to the power of picture symbolism they will know where to find certain chapters easier and even the sequence of those chapters.

    Psa. 18, Luke 18 and Rev. 18 all talk about God avenging His people using the word “avenge.”
    Genesis 19 and Judges 19 tell about two different incidents in two different time periods concerning two different sets of people and yet both stories use similar words and the storyline is almost identical.
    Here is just a taste:
    GENESIS 19
    8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
    JUDGES 19
    24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
    Follow both chapters from there and you see parallels coming down.

    The fourth letter of the Hebrew Alphabet means “Door” and we see this in Genesis 4, Ruth 4 and at the beginning of Rev. 4.

    What you did not observe too was that since the Bible translators were not inspired like the Bible writers the parallels are sometimes off by one chapter or so. I have found too that since Psa. 70 and 71 were originally one psalm when they are counted as one psalm you see the cycle of 22 better. When you count them separately it throws everything off after Psa. 70. So the cycle has to be Psa 22 then 44 then 66 then jump to 89 (not 88) and then even Psalms says that Psa. 90 is the beginning of some book. Psa. 89:41 matches with Psa. 44:13 and Psa. 22:6 so it is not a random thing. There are other parallels too but too many to list here.

    Note too that Lamed, the 12th letter means “rod.” The Greek (NT) equivalent is Lambda which is the 11th letter and Rev. 11 starts off by saying that John saw an angel with a reed like a rod! What comes after “Rod” (Lamed/ Lambda)? Mem which is water. We see that in Rev. 12 when the Dragon spews out water out of its mouth to drown the woman. Also Mem is shaped like a crown. This is the first symbol in that chapter. After Mem/Water is Nun/Fish and the next chapter in Revelation talks about a beast rising up out of the sea.

    There is so much more that I could share here but I think that this is sufficient to show that you must not debunk the truth. Just debunk the errors mixed with it. God bless.

  268. Spasiba
    Posted May 28, 2017 at 3:47 am | Permalink

    Sheldon, Have you found a single error in the Bible Wheel?

  269. Christine
    Posted May 29, 2017 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    I came across your site years ago. I came back tonight so that I could look something up. I am sad to see that you not only think it is all false- but that you have left Christianity. You were right. And we need more people like you – analyticals – that want to find the connections. The bible is real. The bible is literal. There are many things we do not understand about God – but the bible wheel was right. I wish you wouldnt give up. The fact you have been led to put it back up shows me God is moving around you. God wants people to understand in the final days. The connections between aliens/angels and mythology The connections between numbers. So much in the work you have already done……… I pray you do not stop and you are led back to God. This is amazing work.

One Trackback

Post a Comment

Your email is never published nor shared. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

*
*